We're going to try to break Whispering Madness next. It's basically Windfall that costs 2UB (and Windfall is banned in Legacy), screw Cipher and its want for creatures.
It'll certainly be easier to cast than Diminishing Returns in TES (and also a legitimate Burning Wish target and a candidate for the role of "Ad Nauseam's Idiot Brother That Can Be Wished For"), but how often will not drawing 7 cards guaranteed bite it in the butt, and how often will D. Returns exiling the one Tendrils and forcing you to dig for another Burning Wish instead of an Infernal Tutor bite it in the butt?
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If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
The difference between three and four is already pretty big. The difference between three, and four with an extra color requirement is MUCH bigger.
I think it is definitely fair to compare this to Diminishing Returns, and I think I would rather have Diminishing Returns to be honest. I would rather always get seven even if it runs the risk of exiling a key card. If you play Whispering Madness against any aggressive or tempo strategy you are only going to be getting four or five cards. Maybe less if you have to set up your combo during your first couple of turns.
the mana cost is certainly a lot more convenient than on Diminishing Returns. double-blue makes it very likely that you need Lion's Eye Diamond, but you can get a single blue with just a lotus petal
The problem with the card is that it can only be played in combo decks and it refills both players hands. You risk an awful lot by casting it because there is a chance it just gives your opponent a counterspell or 2.
I was looking at Whispering Madness and thinking that yeah... this is basicly Windfall however with a slightly raised mana cost.
I don't know if we can break it, or even make it good enough. However if someone played an UB high tide shell... this is nuts with a timespiral. Rocking it Urza style.
That unblockable Hexproof guy from Innistrad could be pretty awesome with cipher if something like Terror with cipher came along.
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Does anyone think gatecrash will live up to the rtr hype? Will it bring out the decays and shamans that red/green and the other guilds need to break out into the meta? I think they were pretty generous to black green for legacy and it may be a fluke. If so bug will be nicely positioned until summer.
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Currently Building:
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I was looking at Whispering Madness and thinking that yeah... this is basicly Windfall however with a slightly raised mana cost.
I don't know if we can break it, or even make it good enough. However if someone played an UB high tide shell... this is nuts with a timespiral. Rocking it Urza style.
I don't think it's very good in High Tide. A major strength of High Tide is the fact that, fetchlands aside, it runs zero nonbasics. This allows it to dodge nonbasic hate, most importantly Wasteland, which, if it could take out their lands, really hurts the deck because it delays them from going off.
So, you trade all the advantages of being a mono-colored deck for...a card that costs 4 mana (one of which must be Black) and doesn't untap for you, unlike, say, Time Spiral. That really doesn't seem worth it at all.
I know some High Tide decks do play a Green splash for Explore, but at least Explore has some good synergy with the deck and is a way to counteract Wasteland (dropping in more lands to replace the destroyed land), which Whispering Madness does not.
Maybe it'll work well in some Legacy deck, but I don't think it'll be High Tide.
We're going to try to break Whispering Madness next. It's basically Windfall that costs 2UB (and Windfall is banned in Legacy), screw Cipher and its want for creatures.
It'll certainly be easier to cast than Diminishing Returns in TES (and also a legitimate Burning Wish target and a candidate for the role of "Ad Nauseam's Idiot Brother That Can Be Wished For"), but how often will not drawing 7 cards guaranteed bite it in the butt, and how often will D. Returns exiling the one Tendrils and forcing you to dig for another Burning Wish instead of an Infernal Tutor bite it in the butt?
Agreed, Burning Wish + Chant/Silence/Xantid Swarm seems like a good place to start for a combo deck. I know some SI builds have used pact into slithermuse for a similar effect.
The fact that TES frequently does run creatures in the 75 (from xantid swarm to BOB to delver, etc.) makes it seem like a solid potential to boot.
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Maybe it'll work well in some Legacy deck, but I don't think it'll be High Tide.
I agree that high tide is strong because of it's immunity to wasteland. However having a single Sea in the deck isn't that bad and I am not certain that this is that good, however it is a meditate that costs 4 and draws you 7 cards after a spiral. This could ofc be really bad but it is the kind of interaction this card needs... because casting it without any setup is bad... what if the opponent has 2 cards in hand.. then it is just bad.
So while high tide isn't the best shell perhaps I think we need to look for something like it. Perhaps a t1 combo deck could use it. Something like belcher or spanish inquisition.
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Two new 1 mana Evolvers. One costs U for a 0/1 flier, the other G for a 1/1. Thoughts on how good these guys are? Could they see play? Or is being a potentially undercosted beater not enough? My money is on no.
When I first read the G one I saw hexproof for some reason and almost exploded. Now that would be awesome!
Evolve needs the whole deck to do that more creatures for that may be forthcoming. Murder scene and burning tree look interesting.
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At first I thought it cantriped, kind of like manamorph on a body. I doubt it would see play anywhere though. As for Muder... It's the wrong color. This card had to compete with LS, plus white doesn't have too many big creatures. It's also unfortunate that it doesn't trigger on exiling.
I don't think anything spoiled yet will make much of a splash. Infinite is the new Conflux for Dream Halls, but is pretty lame in S&T. Omnitel sideboards would have it, but that's still a pretty niche market.
the evolve skill so far stinks. Gideon is neat. some say he is weak, but IMHO, hi has a place in legacy... somewhere... i think.
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A team should be as happy as a meal - TEAM HAPPYMEAL
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
I think Experiment is a curious mechanic. With Goyf running about everywhere and Tombstalker making a come back, Experiment could provide constant cheap pressure. It's a possibility that he could make his debut in RUG Delver as a replacement for Mongoose until Shaman popularity decreases.
Gideon is interesting, but I think he could make a splash against control. I don't see him anywhere else though. His + ability doesn't do anything immediately except paint a target on his head and his ultimate kind of removed your own board position.
I was curious if anyone else had these same assumptions.
I think Experiment is a curious mechanic. With Goyf running about everywhere and Tombstalker making a come back, Experiment could provide constant cheap pressure. It's a possibility that he could make his debut in RUG Delver as a replacement for Mongoose until Shaman popularity decreases.
Gideon is interesting, but I think he could make a splash against control. I don't see him anywhere else though. His + ability doesn't do anything immediately except paint a target on his head and his ultimate kind of removed your own board position.
I was curious if anyone else had these same assumptions.
The problem with experiment one is, you need to consistently drop creatures, IMHO, you cant gain CA in that way. though it can be a cheap pressure, i may conclude it can see play with ZOO 1CMC deck.
Gideon, you need 8 mana for him to be effective.
Cast gideon, use first ability, then cast wrath of god effects. LOL. too good to be true atm.
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A team should be as happy as a meal - TEAM HAPPYMEAL
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
The problem with experiment one is, you need to consistently drop creatures, IMHO, you cant gain CA in that way. though it can be a cheap pressure, i may conclude it can see play with ZOO 1CMC deck.
Gideon, you need 8 mana for him to be effective.
Cast gideon, use first ability, then cast wrath of god effects. LOL. too good to be true atm.
Or you just use countertop and miracle a terminus.
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Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
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I think in Modern Burn this could have a place, but I don't think it can replace Sulfuric Vortex in Legacy unfortunately. Sulfuric Vortex is more expensive, but it prevents life gain the rest of the game, does 2 damage to them next turn (so the damage is a little worse and delayed) and then continues doing damage. The biggest life gain threat to burn is Umezawa's Jitte, and if you play this they can just keep throwing life gain on the stack with more counters.
It'll certainly be easier to cast than Diminishing Returns in TES (and also a legitimate Burning Wish target and a candidate for the role of "Ad Nauseam's Idiot Brother That Can Be Wished For"), but how often will not drawing 7 cards guaranteed bite it in the butt, and how often will D. Returns exiling the one Tendrils and forcing you to dig for another Burning Wish instead of an Infernal Tutor bite it in the butt?
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I think it is definitely fair to compare this to Diminishing Returns, and I think I would rather have Diminishing Returns to be honest. I would rather always get seven even if it runs the risk of exiling a key card. If you play Whispering Madness against any aggressive or tempo strategy you are only going to be getting four or five cards. Maybe less if you have to set up your combo during your first couple of turns.
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I don't know if we can break it, or even make it good enough. However if someone played an UB high tide shell... this is nuts with a timespiral. Rocking it Urza style.
That unblockable Hexproof guy from Innistrad could be pretty awesome with cipher if something like Terror with cipher came along.
Said about Yawgmoth’s Will
Credits to Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the truly miraculous sig.
GURRUG Delver
RGoblins
RUGPunishing Balance
Modern:
UR Izzet Tron
:symb::symu::symg: BUG Tempo
:symb::symg::symw: JUNK
:symg::symr::symb: JUND
Currently Building:
:symu::symw: Miracle Control
:symb::symu::symr: ANT
So, you trade all the advantages of being a mono-colored deck for...a card that costs 4 mana (one of which must be Black) and doesn't untap for you, unlike, say, Time Spiral. That really doesn't seem worth it at all.
I know some High Tide decks do play a Green splash for Explore, but at least Explore has some good synergy with the deck and is a way to counteract Wasteland (dropping in more lands to replace the destroyed land), which Whispering Madness does not.
Maybe it'll work well in some Legacy deck, but I don't think it'll be High Tide.
Agreed, Burning Wish + Chant/Silence/Xantid Swarm seems like a good place to start for a combo deck. I know some SI builds have used pact into slithermuse for a similar effect.
The fact that TES frequently does run creatures in the 75 (from xantid swarm to BOB to delver, etc.) makes it seem like a solid potential to boot.
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I agree that high tide is strong because of it's immunity to wasteland. However having a single Sea in the deck isn't that bad and I am not certain that this is that good, however it is a meditate that costs 4 and draws you 7 cards after a spiral. This could ofc be really bad but it is the kind of interaction this card needs... because casting it without any setup is bad... what if the opponent has 2 cards in hand.. then it is just bad.
So while high tide isn't the best shell perhaps I think we need to look for something like it. Perhaps a t1 combo deck could use it. Something like belcher or spanish inquisition.
Said about Yawgmoth’s Will
Credits to Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the truly miraculous sig.
GURRUG Delver
RGoblins
RUGPunishing Balance
Modern:
UR Izzet Tron
When I first read the G one I saw hexproof for some reason and almost exploded. Now that would be awesome!
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Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
:symb::symu::symg: BUG Tempo
:symb::symg::symw: JUNK
:symg::symr::symb: JUND
Currently Building:
:symu::symw: Miracle Control
:symb::symu::symr: ANT
I don't think anything spoiled yet will make much of a splash. Infinite is the new Conflux for Dream Halls, but is pretty lame in S&T. Omnitel sideboards would have it, but that's still a pretty niche market.
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Currently Playing:
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BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
Gideon is interesting, but I think he could make a splash against control. I don't see him anywhere else though. His + ability doesn't do anything immediately except paint a target on his head and his ultimate kind of removed your own board position.
I was curious if anyone else had these same assumptions.
The problem with experiment one is, you need to consistently drop creatures, IMHO, you cant gain CA in that way. though it can be a cheap pressure, i may conclude it can see play with ZOO 1CMC deck.
Gideon, you need 8 mana for him to be effective.
Cast gideon, use first ability, then cast wrath of god effects. LOL. too good to be true atm.
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
Or you just use countertop and miracle a terminus.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
That has taken out so many Aggro decks. For this reason so many people has quit legacy. Aggro except for goblins simply have no chance at all.
I think in Modern Burn this could have a place, but I don't think it can replace Sulfuric Vortex in Legacy unfortunately. Sulfuric Vortex is more expensive, but it prevents life gain the rest of the game, does 2 damage to them next turn (so the damage is a little worse and delayed) and then continues doing damage. The biggest life gain threat to burn is Umezawa's Jitte, and if you play this they can just keep throwing life gain on the stack with more counters.
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU