I have never considered cutting the jitte as I only need to pick up 2 as I bought a jitte for £6.50 off ebay (I love people who are unaware rat's nest has a jitte in it).
If you don't have jittes, buy them. They're like the only money card in the list. They're that good.
As a quick replacement I'd suggest basilisk collar or the mirrodin swords. But really, if anything we need them as a way to get rid of opponents jittes.
Bone shredder... Ehhh... We DO want as much removal as we can get but it doesn't work well with krovikan horror like shriekmaw does because echo is silly. It's certainly not a shriekmaw replacement, as a supplement... I'd rather not to be honest, I'd rather run maindeck deathmark or ghastly demise, we can do better things for 3 mana to be honest.
Another change I was thinking of was cutting the brownscales and the last 2 buried alives but then I have completely gutted the entire deck...
LOL ok I didn't know that.
Your change will probably result in a deck like the Gate actually
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This should help people out who are addressing me in further posts: My name is Tenkai. It's not Tokobo. Thank you. =)
I've been following this thread quite a bit since the deck seems very interesting. I'm not too fond of pingusters heavily modified kind of deck, but to each its own, I guess :P.
Lately I've been screwing around with one of the original lists and included a spot for the lovely Spore Frog.
I'm quite in a hurry, so I might only cover a few "odd" card choices.
Mainboard:
Godsire - Right now its the only "superbeater" for Corpse Dance target that I'd play, since he has decent enough P/T and copies himself (which can be quite nasty with 5 Mana, a sacrificer and Corpse Dance - Reanimate him, attack, create token, sacrifice. Next turn repeat!). Terrastodon is more for the strong removal and annoying lands.
Spore Frog - The most interesting card I'd say. It allows the deck to stay alive very very long against zoo and against Raffinity. It costs BG to keep him in the field every round, provided you have a krovikan horror in your GY. (Krovikan top card in GY, sac Frog, return Horror at end step, pay B to discard Horror, return Frog to hand, cast for G. repeat ad infinitum (or until they pull out some nasty exile or graveyard hate). Of course, you have to get the engine going.
Dark Ritual - I found that right now the deck takes a while to get going, Ritual might fix this.
SB:
Innocent Blood - Goblins and the likes. The deck is slow enough as it is and right now this is the cheapest removal I found.
Engineered Plague - Tribal of any sort, zoo, etc.
Krosan Grip - Obvious.
Stillmoon Cavalier - Just an idea for White/Black heavy decks as it jumps through most removals and should lay down quite a beating with Jitte (besides Burns, but we can recycle him anyway :P)
Pithing Needle - Its only a one off right now since I dont know what else to dedicate to it though, it would have to be found by Beseech the Queen I guess.
Gaeas Blessing - anti PainterStone combo
Leyline of the Void - Dredge and Threshold Hate. I'd like 2 more spots for it. any ideas?
any comments and help would be appreciated of course! what kills me the most right now is strong graveyard removal when I cant find the grips and the needle.
are viscera seers really worth it? i mean a chumpblocker (that helps a bit with card choices) vs a guy that could get pretty big. guess ill have to test it out
yeah the tomb is budget reason, although thoughtseizes here are pretty expensives so i'll have to swap those with duress for the time being.
whats the reason for 2 brownscales? graveyard hate? if i need the 2 live i'd rather get him in there with buried alive.
i went with the green splash because theres a ton of people playing decks with senseis/jitte/counterbalance here, and because im not in favor of mono colored decks
That's the point of the 2 brownscales, you buried alive for them and then gain 2 life for every black you put into tortured existence.
Yes viscera seer is SO much better than carrion feeder, they will just plow your carrion feeder if it gets big. Viscera seer can sac other creatures to remove useless cards from the top of your deck and chump block and sac itself giving you a useless effect from saccing itself unlike carrion feeder as well as being able to prevent jitte getting counters by block saccing.
I know what the brownscales are there for, but I wondered if you really need two or if one is enough.
Hmm, I'm not to sure about that. I'd have to respond to its trigger when it enters the graveyard, right? i dont think that would happen very often, and with gaeas blessing i could still be able to cast and use it.
Emrakul is a house. I'm playing around with Sneak Attack right now, and he single-handedly wins games, even if it's just off one swing. Running him over blessing is probably a good call.
Also, modified the opening post slightly, added some cards to the appropriate section. If I'm missing anything too obvious, feel free to PM me.
if you can pitch a emerakul to existance, and dance it on turn 4, DO IT
it will shuffle your graveyard back in, it will remove your bomb from the game, it will get rid of a corpse dance that you could have been buy back, it will abosolutly destroy the goal of this deck, and everything that you have been setting up.
with all that being said i think your crazy not to do it. it will leave them with absolutely nothing in play and at 5 life with no way to defend themselves, a shriekmaw is a two turn clock.
Emerakul is also a decent board against show and tell, it will kill there emerakul, or race progenitus.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
What do you guys think of including the new Necrotic Ooze combo in this deck?
Necrotic Ooze 2BB
As long as Necrotic Ooze is on the battlefield, it has all activated abilities of all creatures in all graveyards.
4/3
The combo involves Casting Buried Alive getting the Ooze, Pyrexian Devourer and Triskelion and then reanimating the Ooze. It seems like a perfect fit in this kind of shell, imo.
I'm going to work on coming up with a list this weekend. Just thought I'd gauge opinions beforehand.
I haven't actually played this deck, but I think Im going to sell my fows and pick it up. Im kinda tiered of legacy and only want to play it for fun. I dont get to play much in my area and I think this would be fun for when Im playing against other people just casualy.
whats your most recent build ping?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
I'm dropping in to put in my current decklist. It's heavily influenced by pingusters', but I left in Buried Alive and I'm running a bunch of one-ofs and 2-ofs as more of a toolbox type deck. It shares about 1/2 of pinguster's list though.
No sideboard yet, my playgroup where I usually test doesn't sideboard and I don't feel experienced enough with the deck yet to try to take it somewhere competitive.
Zombie Infestation is in the test slot, and I really like it, but Buried Alive can't get it - I'll probably keep it in anyway. 3x Inquisition of Kozilek, and the rest of the discard package: Every time I play it it's really good, but after a few turns my opponents inevitably go hellbent and it's a dead topdeck. Considering going down to 9 discards, probably gonna cut the 3rd Duress. Liliana's Specter serves the same purpose as Mesmeric Fiend for the Corpse Dance lock, but it has 2 power and flying, and it can make your opponent discard lands. However, it lets your opponents choose which card to discard if they have more than one. Other stuff I'm considering putting in is 1 Architects of Will (For the BB: Draw a card effect.), 2nd Beseech the Queen, or the 4th Buried Alive.
Pinguster, some questions about your decklist: Doesn't Mishra's Factory just trade for your opponent's Wasteland, like Volrath's Stronghold did? Has life loss from Bob been a problem, or do you use brownscales to deal with it? And are you recurring things enough to make graveyard order worth the hassle still - Squee, Goblin Nabob does what krovikan horror does once a turn without graveyard order hassle, and if you're only really recurring Shriekmaw and you're dredging a lot, it might be worth it to run Squee instead.
I'm going to step in for a moment. Pinguster, as I've mentioned, your deck has deviated away from The Nightmare Effect. The deck you're working with right now appears to be The Gate with the Tortured Existence engine thrown in. This deck is different enough to no longer be included in the discussion on this thread. If you wish to continue discussion, please begin a new thread in developing.
On that note, comments like "I seriously hope everyone shelves the old tech for this deck soon or I will hit my head against a wall" are inappropriate for the discussion of any deck.
So, would it be stretching the toolbox factor too much to run the Necrotic Ooze-Trike-Phyrexian Devourer combo?
EDIT: I just bought a large portion of the deck on MTGfanatic for $16.16 after shipping. Life is good.
So, would it be stretching the toolbox factor too much to run the Necrotic Ooze-Trike-Phyrexian Devourer combo?
EDIT: I just bought a large portion of the deck on MTGfanatic for $16.16 after shipping. Life is good.
I really do like the idea of the Ooze/Trike/Devourer combo. Running this would basically force you to run Buried Alive, so keep that in mind.
Also, the price of the deck is one of the big reason I like it. For the most part, the pieces are dirt cheap
Reread ooze. It doesn't inherit the triggered abilities.
Edit: Scratch that. Didn't read the oracle The oracle text makes Phyrexian Devourer's ability redundant. It constantly checks, but also checks as part of each activation.
But you remove the card as the cost, so you know what card is removed while the ability is still on the stack. So you can respond by activating it again. Ooze also gains the abilities of the Swampcycler, Carrion Feeder, and Horror. And Seer and Kagemaro, if you run them. It's not bad at all. I may run more than one.
But you remove the card as the cost, so you know what card is removed while the ability is still on the stack. So you can respond by activating it again. Ooze also gains the abilities of the Swampcycler, Carrion Feeder, and Horror. And Seer and Kagemaro, if you run them. It's not bad at all. I may run more than one.
Fearme does raise a good point; despite the fact that it can eat itself, you can stack additional triggers once you know what you've removed
Nah, the card was made before the stack was around, it would be silly to do everything in response and then fling it at some one. Sorry for me not noticing your edit. I don't my post being on a separate page helped but yeah.
Can we continue that discussion in the PMs please it was getting somewhere I feel and I don't want you and me falling out over this.
To mention something, the Ooze/Trike/Devourer combo does in fact work. You remove a card from the game as the cost, so you know its CMC before the ability resolves and puts counters on. You keep removing in response until you get something that costs less than three, let that activated ability resolve, and then use the Trike ability to remove the counters for damage and keep going. The problem is that you don't really have enough cards with CMC 3 or less to hit 20 damage or more with the combo. It may be worth playing though if you tinker around with the decklist a bit.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTG Rules Advisor
I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Fearme does raise a good point; despite the fact that it can eat itself, you can stack additional triggers once you know what you've removed
I may need to fiddle with the curve a bit. Remember that you can only remove 1 and 2-drops for Ooze. There are only 17 cards in the budget list that can be used to pump up the Ooze. While that will probably be enough, you may not get there if you're locked up in a war of attrition with the opponent. I'll probably try to run some Smother or Deathmark MD.
EDIT: I didn't even see that part of the post above me. But yeah, some type of Instant-speed removal or extra Mesmeric Fiends will go a long way in getting there.
EDIT2: Here's what I'm looking to play for now.
// Deck file for Magic Workstation
At most, you could do 27 damage with Ooze. But he's too generally useful not to want to run. And if you have a Feeder in the yard and dudes in the board. you could do more.
Ooze combo kills a couple of turns faster than 'Maw (1 turn vs. 6, assuming your opponent fetched twice), and Ooze has extra utility in being able to abuse the "Nightmare Effect" by gaining horror's (and Seer/Feeder's) abilities, too. And he's got a decent body to begin with. He's utility, and a lot of it.
I had meant to ask about the proper number of horrors required.
Cutting one opens me up to Swamp #20.
Why is Feeder so bad? This deck is pretty low on aggressive dudes.
Also, HOW THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO BEAT STORM?
EDIT: Oh yeah, maindeck sweepers. Does it weaken the creature base too much to run them?
LOL ok I didn't know that.
Your change will probably result in a deck like the Gate actually
Legacy Competitive
BUReanimatorUB
RUSneaky ShowUR(Dismantled)
GBUReanimatorUBG(Retired)
(Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning)
{RIP:July 1, 2010}
Legacy Casual
UWBag Of TricksWU
GWEnchantressWG(Budget/In construction)
WSoul SistersW
Legacy Casual - Retired
UBT.E.S. - The EGG-pic StormBU
BGrave ExistenceB
Sig by Me =)
I've been following this thread quite a bit since the deck seems very interesting. I'm not too fond of pingusters heavily modified kind of deck, but to each its own, I guess :P.
Lately I've been screwing around with one of the original lists and included a spot for the lovely Spore Frog.
I currently run this test-list on MWS:
Lands
3 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
12 Swamp
Creatures
1 Golgari Brownscale
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Godsire
1 Terastodon
1 Faceless Butcher
2 Spore Frog
3 Carrion Feeder
3 Krovikan Horror
3 Shriekmaw
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Beseech the Queen
3 Buried Alive
3 Corpse Dance
3 Thoughtseize
3 Dark Ritual
4 Tortured Existence
3 Innocent Blood
3 Engineered Plague
4 Krosan Grip
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
1 Pithing Needle
1 Gaea's Blessing
2 Leyline of the Void
I'm quite in a hurry, so I might only cover a few "odd" card choices.
Mainboard:
Godsire - Right now its the only "superbeater" for Corpse Dance target that I'd play, since he has decent enough P/T and copies himself (which can be quite nasty with 5 Mana, a sacrificer and Corpse Dance - Reanimate him, attack, create token, sacrifice. Next turn repeat!). Terrastodon is more for the strong removal and annoying lands.
Spore Frog - The most interesting card I'd say. It allows the deck to stay alive very very long against zoo and against Raffinity. It costs BG to keep him in the field every round, provided you have a krovikan horror in your GY. (Krovikan top card in GY, sac Frog, return Horror at end step, pay B to discard Horror, return Frog to hand, cast for G. repeat ad infinitum (or until they pull out some nasty exile or graveyard hate). Of course, you have to get the engine going.
Dark Ritual - I found that right now the deck takes a while to get going, Ritual might fix this.
SB:
Innocent Blood - Goblins and the likes. The deck is slow enough as it is and right now this is the cheapest removal I found.
Engineered Plague - Tribal of any sort, zoo, etc.
Krosan Grip - Obvious.
Stillmoon Cavalier - Just an idea for White/Black heavy decks as it jumps through most removals and should lay down quite a beating with Jitte (besides Burns, but we can recycle him anyway :P)
Pithing Needle - Its only a one off right now since I dont know what else to dedicate to it though, it would have to be found by Beseech the Queen I guess.
Gaeas Blessing - anti PainterStone combo
Leyline of the Void - Dredge and Threshold Hate. I'd like 2 more spots for it. any ideas?
any comments and help would be appreciated of course! what kills me the most right now is strong graveyard removal when I cant find the grips and the needle.
yeah the tomb is budget reason, although thoughtseizes here are pretty expensives so i'll have to swap those with duress for the time being.
whats the reason for 2 brownscales? graveyard hate? if i need the 2 live i'd rather get him in there with buried alive.
i went with the green splash because theres a ton of people playing decks with senseis/jitte/counterbalance here, and because im not in favor of mono colored decks
I know what the brownscales are there for, but I wondered if you really need two or if one is enough.
Two brownscales effectively turns each B into 2 life. Only one brownscale means to gain 2 life, you need BB. It really is worth it.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
cut gaea's blessing for emerakul. It will own painter in the same way, but you can corpse dance it to end the game or to kill another emerakul.....
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
say you draw the emerakul you can pitch it, to shuffle it back in so you dont loss. or if you happen to have 2B open you can just win the game....
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
Also, modified the opening post slightly, added some cards to the appropriate section. If I'm missing anything too obvious, feel free to PM me.
-Jon
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
it will shuffle your graveyard back in, it will remove your bomb from the game, it will get rid of a corpse dance that you could have been buy back, it will abosolutly destroy the goal of this deck, and everything that you have been setting up.
with all that being said i think your crazy not to do it. it will leave them with absolutely nothing in play and at 5 life with no way to defend themselves, a shriekmaw is a two turn clock.
Emerakul is also a decent board against show and tell, it will kill there emerakul, or race progenitus.
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
Necrotic Ooze 2BB
As long as Necrotic Ooze is on the battlefield, it has all activated abilities of all creatures in all graveyards.
4/3
The combo involves Casting Buried Alive getting the Ooze, Pyrexian Devourer and Triskelion and then reanimating the Ooze. It seems like a perfect fit in this kind of shell, imo.
I'm going to work on coming up with a list this weekend. Just thought I'd gauge opinions beforehand.
[180 classic cube]
whats your most recent build ping?
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
4 Shriekmaw
3 Krovikan Horror
2 Golgari Brownscale
2 Viscera Seer
2 Liliana's Specter
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Twisted Abomination
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Necroplasm
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Duress
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Buried Alive
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Zombie Infestation
1 Corpse Dance
No sideboard yet, my playgroup where I usually test doesn't sideboard and I don't feel experienced enough with the deck yet to try to take it somewhere competitive.
Zombie Infestation is in the test slot, and I really like it, but Buried Alive can't get it - I'll probably keep it in anyway. 3x Inquisition of Kozilek, and the rest of the discard package: Every time I play it it's really good, but after a few turns my opponents inevitably go hellbent and it's a dead topdeck. Considering going down to 9 discards, probably gonna cut the 3rd Duress. Liliana's Specter serves the same purpose as Mesmeric Fiend for the Corpse Dance lock, but it has 2 power and flying, and it can make your opponent discard lands. However, it lets your opponents choose which card to discard if they have more than one. Other stuff I'm considering putting in is 1 Architects of Will (For the BB: Draw a card effect.), 2nd Beseech the Queen, or the 4th Buried Alive.
Pinguster, some questions about your decklist: Doesn't Mishra's Factory just trade for your opponent's Wasteland, like Volrath's Stronghold did? Has life loss from Bob been a problem, or do you use brownscales to deal with it? And are you recurring things enough to make graveyard order worth the hassle still - Squee, Goblin Nabob does what krovikan horror does once a turn without graveyard order hassle, and if you're only really recurring Shriekmaw and you're dredging a lot, it might be worth it to run Squee instead.
On that note, comments like "I seriously hope everyone shelves the old tech for this deck soon or I will hit my head against a wall" are inappropriate for the discussion of any deck.
(That's my serious voice)
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
EDIT: I just bought a large portion of the deck on MTGfanatic for $16.16 after shipping. Life is good.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I really do like the idea of the Ooze/Trike/Devourer combo. Running this would basically force you to run Buried Alive, so keep that in mind.
Also, the price of the deck is one of the big reason I like it. For the most part, the pieces are dirt cheap
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
I even picked up a Trike and a Devourer. But I forgot the swampcycling guy.
I know I have like 4 of them sitting around, anyway.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Edit: Scratch that. Didn't read the oracle The oracle text makes Phyrexian Devourer's ability redundant. It constantly checks, but also checks as part of each activation.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
Yeah, thanks for that; I had already checked it. Read my post. For the record, this is poor erata by Wizards.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
But you remove the card as the cost, so you know what card is removed while the ability is still on the stack. So you can respond by activating it again. Ooze also gains the abilities of the Swampcycler, Carrion Feeder, and Horror. And Seer and Kagemaro, if you run them. It's not bad at all. I may run more than one.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Fearme does raise a good point; despite the fact that it can eat itself, you can stack additional triggers once you know what you've removed
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
To mention something, the Ooze/Trike/Devourer combo does in fact work. You remove a card from the game as the cost, so you know its CMC before the ability resolves and puts counters on. You keep removing in response until you get something that costs less than three, let that activated ability resolve, and then use the Trike ability to remove the counters for damage and keep going. The problem is that you don't really have enough cards with CMC 3 or less to hit 20 damage or more with the combo. It may be worth playing though if you tinker around with the decklist a bit.
I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
I may need to fiddle with the curve a bit. Remember that you can only remove 1 and 2-drops for Ooze. There are only 17 cards in the budget list that can be used to pump up the Ooze. While that will probably be enough, you may not get there if you're locked up in a war of attrition with the opponent. I'll probably try to run some Smother or Deathmark MD.
EDIT: I didn't even see that part of the post above me. But yeah, some type of Instant-speed removal or extra Mesmeric Fiends will go a long way in getting there.
EDIT2: Here's what I'm looking to play for now.
// Deck file for Magic Workstation
19 Swamp
3 Mesmeric Fiend
3 Shriekmaw
2 Twisted Abomination
4 Krovikan Horror
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Terastodon
2 Viscera Seer
4 Carrion Feeder
1 Necrotic Ooze
4 Tortured Existence
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Buried Alive
3 Corpse Dance
2 Bojuka Bog
1 Mesmeric Fiend
2 Faceless Butcher
3 Storm Hate of Some Sort
1 Duress
3 Infest
1 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
2 Faerie Macabre
At most, you could do 27 damage with Ooze. But he's too generally useful not to want to run. And if you have a Feeder in the yard and dudes in the board. you could do more.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Ooze combo kills a couple of turns faster than 'Maw (1 turn vs. 6, assuming your opponent fetched twice), and Ooze has extra utility in being able to abuse the "Nightmare Effect" by gaining horror's (and Seer/Feeder's) abilities, too. And he's got a decent body to begin with. He's utility, and a lot of it.
I had meant to ask about the proper number of horrors required.
Cutting one opens me up to Swamp #20.
Why is Feeder so bad? This deck is pretty low on aggressive dudes.
Also, HOW THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO BEAT STORM?
EDIT: Oh yeah, maindeck sweepers. Does it weaken the creature base too much to run them?
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.