This thread is to strictly discuss UWgb and Ugb Landstill variants.
Keep looking for updates in the opening page. I will try to add to this post whenever I have the time.
At the 2006 Legacy Championships a powerful control deck known as BHWC Landstill made a strong appearance by placing in the top 4. BHWC Landstill was created by a popular legacy san diego team known as BHWW. Complete Jank was one of the team members that designed BHWC landstill and still posts on these boards. Ever since BHWC landstill's breakout at the 2006 Legacy champs the deck began taking multiple top 8s in just about any tournament you can think of including the 2007 Legacy championships as well.
The modern UWgb landstill builds still have some resemblances to BHWC landstill. Some builds include Tarmogoyf and counterbalance while others were strictly set on board control and cycling 1/1 soldier tokens for the win.
Here are two BHWC Landstill lists that top 8'd at the 2007 and 2006 Legacy Championships:
Card Choices:
Engineered explosives: Awesome the swiss army knife against muliple of decks in this format. Landstill should definitely run these.
Counterspell: Still a solid counterspell but it has lost some of it's efficiency over the years. Considering this format has gotten much faster compared to the year 2007.
Pernicious Deed: A good board clearer in Legacy assuming if you can get around all of the stifles in this format.
Diabolic Edict: Good against creatures with shroud and other creatures that can ruin your day.
Decree of justice: I think everyone knows this one by now.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant: She's awesome against almost any deck even against aggro-control decks. I have won quite a few games with her and she definitely makes landstill a better deck overall.
Swords to plowshares: Best removal spell in legacy and one of the main reasons to run white in here.
Cunning Wish: A brilliant responsive tool that can turn bad matchups into good ones.
Brainstorm: It seems pretty obvious.
Standstill: Powerful with board clearers, decree of justice, and manlands.
Spell Snare: Since this format has gotten a lot faster with a bunch of 2 mana drops. I think spell snare is an worthy inclusion.
Sensei's Divining Top: Top stabalizes your manabase and underneath a standstill. From here you can manipulate your library to draw more lands.
Force of Will: The ability to have a free counterspell at our disposal is flawless especially when you want to counter something after drawing three from standstill.
Sideboard Card Choices:
Path to Exile: Having alternative swords to plowshares seems nice and in testing they prove to be potent against aggro-control or aggro decks.
Extirpate: This card can single handly steal you games and it has gotten better thanks to the versatility of Cunning Wish.
Krosan Grip: Good against counterbalance and Dreadnought and many other artifact/enchantment spells.
Enlightened Tutor: A powerful wish target that enables me to search for nearly everything I ever need in this deck.
Fact or Fiction: An pretty solid alternative to standstill, brainstorm, and top. FoF can turn the tables to your favor.
Negate: Awesome in attrition wars and can be solid against combo.
Pulse of the fields: With all of the aggro decks running around pulse of the fields is once against an all-star in this format.
Engineered Plague: With all of the tribal decks that are being heavily played in this format. Running E. Plague is a must.
Matchup Analysis:
Merfolks: This matchup is a very hard matchup for this deck. They can pretty much obsolete your mana resources via stifle and wasteland. Not to mention, they have an extremely fast clock and use standstills better then you because of aether vial and their ability to stream out constant threats to keep you at bay. You actually have a better chance postboard because having access to more removal and plague can help you out but if you play tightly you have a better chance.
Goblins: Possibly an easier matchup then merfolks but still tough because they run both rishadan port and wastelands. You have a much better chance postboard with engineered plague but it's still a rough fight for you.
RGW Zoo: Another pretty tough matchup especially if they run vexing shusher and price of progress. Just hope for the best that they don't run these cards and your chances of winning are much better. Pulse of the fields and path to exile would also be good here.
Tempo Threshold: This matchup is either roughly even or in favor of the threshold player. Stifle and wasteland is the main things to worry about in this matchup. Top and brainstorm will help you maintain a manabase even in the face of land disruption. You also have plenty of removal to help you too.
Countertop Threshold: A good matchup for you especially since you also run cunning wish which enables you to cast Krosan Grip. Spell snare and deed seem brilliant in this matchup as well. Postboard you have path to exiles and extirpates to help shut off their threats if need be.
Aggro-Loam: Pretty much a matchup that can swing either way for you but if you can cast an early Elspeth your chances to win this matchup becomes much greater. You need to be on the aggressive when playing this matchup. Cunning Wish gives you a solid chance to win games preboard because of extirpate and spell snares would come in handy here.
Eva Green: Usually a good matchup for Landstill. You have spell snares, force of wills, and brainstorms to subside their discard and land destruction. Postboard, it becomes easier with path to exiles and negates. Another plan to consider when playing this matchup is stockpile on lands and removal spells. All of your 1cc spells in this matchup are your best friends.
Affinity: Another good matchup for landstill because you have pernicious deed and multiple ways to remove their threats. I would watch out for aether vial if they run it though but then again you have engineered explosives and force of wills for those.
Dreadstill: Your pretty much favored in this matchup especially postboard with Krosan grip and engineered explosives really helps in this matchup as well. Keeping an healthy land count in your opening hands is also recommended when playing against dreadstill because in control matchups land drops are tech.
Is there more match up analysis to come because it sounds a pretty poor deck from the MUs here.
Any chance of a loam MU and some storm? A MU against discard from pox/eva green?
Generaly though I think the deck looks good. Cunning wish looks like it might slow you down though.
Thanks glad you like the deck. Yeah I just didn't wanted to sound full of crap. I want people to take me seriously so I don't like to lie about matchups.
As for those matchups, I'll see if I can expand on my opening post whenever I can.
Pact of Negation doesn't seem like a good wish card in landstill because the main purprose of cunning wish is to advance your board state without hurting yourself in the end. I also think path to exile is strictly better then slaughter pact as well.
The PtE point seems valid. I am just used to using it as an answer to magus of the moon rather than a wish target. I note stifle is not there could there be a spot?
I realise I am just putting a lot of card names out there; I am hoping that by the reasons you give for not running them will help me quickly get a grip on the deck.
Nantuko monastry?
Do you ever find yourself using decree for angels? I used to run BUW landstill and found myself using the decree both ways?
You could put stifle in there yes. There isn't no real way to build Landstill in general. Some people like running the wasteland and stifle package just to play standstills easier. I guess it depends on the environment but I imagine the stifle and wasteland combo works rather well in most metas. I just don't run either because I prefer more removal and countermagic. But there is a possibility that I could go back to running them.
I have two plains in the main just to hardcast an decree and it's also for Elspeth which is a house in alot of matchups.
I guess my biggest problem with this version of Landstill is the manabase. It's just so fragile and open to punishment by alot decks using mana denial, like the aforementioned matchups. Plus, I'm not hot over almost total reliance on Pernicious Deed as it's sole board clearer either.
I'd probably maindeck the Path to Exiles over Diabolic Edicts. How many popular creatures have shroud that Landstill cares about, honestly? I'd be more inclined to put the Diabolic Edict as a Wish target. PtE is cheaper, which seems to be better intrinsically.
You have two Decree of Justice, so I'd cut a Mishra's Factory for a basic land. Safer, even moreso for this deck.
With Cunning Wish in the deck, I would feel fine completely cutting Counterspell for a 4th Spell Snare, and another slot of ones choice. If anything, you could Wish for a Counterspell, if the need arises. Spell Snare seems to be an autoinclude, since it counters a tremendous amount of the compettitive Legacy format.
I guess my biggest problem with this version of Landstill is the manabase. It's just so fragile and open to punishment by alot decks using mana denial, like the aforementioned matchups. Plus, I'm not hot over almost total reliance on Pernicious Deed as it's sole board clearer either.
I'd probably maindeck the Path to Exiles over Diabolic Edicts. How many popular creatures have shroud that Landstill cares about, honestly? I'd be more inclined to put the Diabolic Edict as a Wish target. PtE is cheaper, which seems to be better intrinsically.
You have two Decree of Justice, so I'd cut a Mishra's Factory for a basic land. Safer, even moreso for this deck.
With Cunning Wish in the deck, I would feel fine completely cutting Counterspell for a 4th Spell Snare, and another slot of ones choice. If anything, you could Wish for a Counterspell, if the need arises. Spell Snare seems to be an autoinclude, since it counters a tremendous amount of the compettitive Legacy format.
It's good to see you Chime in again Raze.
Well, with canadian threshold being extremely popular I often like to include Diabolic Edict for their mongeese.
I would agree that spell snare is really good but there has been times where I just prefer counterspell instead so it's good to run both.
Also, I would like to mention that I think Uwb landstill is just a better choice overall but I just wanted to write an 4c landstill thread since this variant has been significantly viable in the past.
Ok, well now I understand the choices. I guess having 2 Counterspells maindeck is decent insurance against random nonsense.
Maybe Humility as a one of? You can do the whole Cunning Wish>>>Enlightened Tutor>>>>Humility string.
I'm not so sure about Top. Alot of people love it, especially under a Standstill. Really, the only reason I think it functions in this deck is because you run 8 fetchlands. Otherwise, those 2 slots would have went to something else.
I know it may sound weird, but I might have some discard in the SB versus control decks, like other Landstill, if you run black. It's cheap and proactive. Grabs an assortment of stuff. Depends oo the meta your in though. I used to run Duress in the SB when I ran UWB Landstill, and it worked well.
First off, Your welcome it is my pleasure to write another Landstill thread for MTG Sally.
That said, I have tested Tarmogoyf in Landstill for a long while and after sometime I don't think Tarmogoyf is needed. Landstill is a deck that doesn't use very many creatures. The deck's main objective is to advance the board state by clearing the board and drawing massive amount of cards via standstill.
Even when Tarmogoyf can fit the role of being a removal spell and a threat simulatenously that doesn't mean it's efficient. In fact, the inclusion of Tarmogoyf is far from being efficient in landstill.
In my mind, Goyfs has zero efficiency in Landstill because it doesn't do anything else besides blocking and attacking. But then again this only applies to Landstill builds that are more controlish which is my background in Legacy.
Goyf just seems better in a countertop w/ standstill shell since you can put a ton of pressure on your opponent. You can just lock your opponent right out of the game with countertop and swing with a huge Tarmo ftw.
As for your list Caleb, I kinda like your list but if you want to go the more controllish route I would cut Tarmogoyfs. Also, I favor Elsepth over goyfs in landstill because they are just more efficient and versatile.
Anyway, I have been testing my 4c cunning Landstill build some more since I had the past 7 days off from college. My first day of summer college is on the 29th of this month. But it's a relief to have 10 days off for some Legacy since it's my favorite format.
That said, here is what I came up as far as a list goes.
As you can tell it's primary colors are blue and white. Considering it's a good plan not to get owned by stifle/wasteland and blood moon as much. I have been happy with the list so far but I am still trying to fit another Mage in the sideboard somewhere.
I also made some updates to my opening post of this thread as well.
To start off, your updated list looks solid, and very much pure control as you said. I miss the efficiency of deed, but the ability to fetch out basics is a good thing too.
Glad to see you added the third EE. It's a great answer to vial, isn't it? Slightly worse than Deed, but better than stuff like Pithing Needle that I've seen some people run. I'm a bit concerned about your 3x md FoF. I'd just worry about drawing multiples in the early game. I would try replacing one of them with a Jace, if you haven't already. It's a blue Phyrexian Arena that doesn't make us lose life, and we should be taking advantage of it. I think it's kind of interesting that both our lists run 6x draw spells. It seems like a good, consistent number for the deck.
Dropping an Engineered Plague for a MM looks easy. Remember that you can Cunning wish->Enlightened, so 3 is effectively 5. This is slow, but you'll probably be doing it for the second one as the first, found via Brainstorm or whatnot, will buy some time.
Speaking of Enlightened, no md Humility? I like the card in any list that runs 2+Decree, as the synergy between the two makes them both much better.
You're right about my list, it isn't pure control. The main reason I like Goyf is because it gives the deck some fluidity. It can just end the game fast, decreasing the amount of time you need to buy against the opponent, which thus makes the disruption we run better, as it has to do less. Normally, when a combo player is facing control they can sit back and sculpt the perfect hand, as control's pressure is too slow. Goyf removes this option. Against the other control decks, the increased threat density of Goyf/Elspeth/Garruk can also win games. Fast, efficient threats protected by the blue disruption suite, that we run as well, are why Thresh beats up on us when it does, even when it runs stuff like Countertop that is less effective against us than it is against the rest of the field.
A reason I like Goyf from the control aspect of the deck is because it limits my opponent's options. If they want to attack through a 5/6 or 6/7, they're going to have to put a few creatures in play to make it worth their while. When they commit to the board, they're going to get owned by Wrath/Deed/EE that much harder. I think of it as the "Wall of Blossoms Effect."
If we're talking pure efficiency, the Garruk/Elspeth split has been nothing but efficient for me. Two Elspeth's in a hand is not efficient, giving the opponent time to deal with each individually. Dealing with both at once, however, is almost impossible. Also, Garruk makes 4x Counterspell much better, and compliments the Goyf purpose of ending the game fast.
To start off, your updated list looks solid, and very much pure control as you said. I miss the efficiency of deed, but the ability to fetch out basics is a good thing too.
Glad to see you added the third EE. It's a great answer to vial, isn't it? Slightly worse than Deed, but better than stuff like Pithing Needle that I've seen some people run. I'm a bit concerned about your 3x md FoF. I'd just worry about drawing multiples in the early game. I would try replacing one of them with a Jace, if you haven't already. It's a blue Phyrexian Arena that doesn't make us lose life, and we should be taking advantage of it. I think it's kind of interesting that both our lists run 6x draw spells. It seems like a good, consistent number for the deck.
Dropping an Engineered Plague for a MM looks easy. Remember that you can Cunning wish->Enlightened, so 3 is effectively 5. This is slow, but you'll probably be doing it for the second one as the first, found via Brainstorm or whatnot, will buy some time.
Speaking of Enlightened, no md Humility? I like the card in any list that runs 2+Decree, as the synergy between the two makes them both much better.
You're right about my list, it isn't pure control. The main reason I like Goyf is because it gives the deck some fluidity. It can just end the game fast, decreasing the amount of time you need to buy against the opponent, which thus makes the disruption we run better, as it has to do less. Normally, when a combo player is facing control they can sit back and sculpt the perfect hand, as control's pressure is too slow. Goyf removes this option. Against the other control decks, the increased threat density of Goyf/Elspeth/Garruk can also win games. Fast, efficient threats protected by the blue disruption suite, that we run as well, are why Thresh beats up on us when it does, even when it runs stuff like Countertop that is less effective against us than it is against the rest of the field.
A reason I like Goyf from the control aspect of the deck is because it limits my opponent's options. If they want to attack through a 5/6 or 6/7, they're going to have to put a few creatures in play to make it worth their while. When they commit to the board, they're going to get owned by Wrath/Deed/EE that much harder. I think of it as the "Wall of Blossoms Effect."
If we're talking pure efficiency, the Garruk/Elspeth split has been nothing but efficient for me. Two Elspeth's in a hand is not efficient, giving the opponent time to deal with each individually. Dealing with both at once, however, is almost impossible. Also, Garruk makes 4x Counterspell much better, and compliments the Goyf purpose of ending the game fast.
I've been liking my 3 fact or fiction/3 brainstorm split; it works rather well but then again my mindset when playing Landstill is getting that edge to advance the board.
Tarmogoyf in itself is a removal spell and a threat packed into one card yes. However, I'd rather just remove their threat and then drop a standstill to swing the pressure back to your opponent.
As for running Humility, I don't really have enough room for those since the deck is pretty packed as is.
For the 4th meddling mage, I'd rather cut the 2nd extirpate since it just seems more logical compared to cutting the 4th plague. Considering, I could see myself boarding in engineered plagues more often then not.
Humility+Plague is hot, though =P. If you're happy with 3x Decree/1x Elspeth, then I wouldn't mess with it, but if I was running 3 FoF I would feel comfortable dropping a Decree and adding a Humility.
I like boarding an Extirpate in vs. other control decks, and you are light on GY answers. Of course, I like Cunning-Brain Freeze better, but control isn't prominent enough to be worth the SB slot. So yeah, cutting the second Extirpate makes sense.
Humility+Plague is hot, though =P. If you're happy with 3x Decree/1x Elspeth, then I wouldn't mess with it, but if I was running 3 FoF I would feel comfortable dropping a Decree and adding a Humility.
I like boarding an Extirpate in vs. other control decks, and you are light on GY answers. Of course, I like Cunning-Brain Freeze better, but control isn't prominent enough to be worth the SB slot. So yeah, cutting the second Extirpate makes sense.
I've done the Humility+Plague combo against goblins many times so I know how damaging that can be towards tribal decks. That said, I usually have no trouble including both enchantments in my Uwb Landstill lists.
As for matchups, I usually keep Dreadstill, Zoo, Merfolk, Countertop, storm combo and goblins in mind. However, if I find myself playing in a control heavy environment then negate would do some good in the board.
I would also like to note that I added some more content to the opening post of this thread.
Overall this primer looks good. One thing I need to know is why pick stp instead of path for this deck? Isn't it harder for you if your opponents gain life instead of mana?
Overall this primer looks good. One thing I need to know is why pick stp instead of path for this deck? Isn't it harder for you if your opponents gain life instead of mana?
No, I don't really find it much of a concern when my opponent gains life from stp. Your objective when playing control is to reset game states back to zero and just win. Generally, giving your opponent life doesn't really effect the current game state at all. While giving your opponent more lands can alter game states but that probably depends on what you play against.
I think pernicious deed isn't very reliable against the likes of UGr Canadian Thresh. Deed costs too much to utilize especially if you want to play around daze and on top of that stifle stops deed. Your manabase also looks extremely vulnerable to their land disruption suite as well.
Also, yeah standstill is very good against tempo thresh if it resolves. Postboard, they have red blasts to further outplay you.
Zoo looks like a bad matchup for you as well. Price of progress, and their blazing fast clock seems overwhelming. Both stp and engineered explosives seems solid against them but pernicious deed seems rather slow. One of zoo's strengths is punishing multi color decks for splashing additional colors. I would probably suggest trying out countertop especially since your running tarmogoyfs and they happen to help you in some of your worst matchups.
Postboard, blue elemental blasts will help to an extent but the zoo player has plenty of tools against blue as well.
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I'd prefer to run Uwb Landstill over 4c anyday of the week. But there are people that prefer 4c which is fine and at least 4c landstill still puts up relatively good results.
Landstill in general can adapt to any metagame and 4c Landstill can actually be a better choice then 3c depending on the meta.
Would it make sense to run the BG filter land (Shadowmoor)? UW shell + BG land to make specifically GG or BG when needed?
Logic:
BG = deed, boosts EE
GG = Grip
*pretty much everything else in the deck is UW-based
The argument for "omg its not fetchable" is TOTALLY negated by the fact that it will not eat your mana-base + you can possibly run a Pure UW list + this filter land (maybe a trop island or underground sea if preferred). I think this concept clears the manabase + the ability to wasteland the filterland is the same situation with dual-heavy lists.
Am I flawed in this logic of running what's normally a 3c manabase BUT swapping out the splash-color dual with a BG filterland? I think it works on paper
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Should be worth testing at the very least. Considering, you can play around wasteland with crucible of the worlds and a land that can produce two off colors doesn't seem all that bad. Although, not getting blue mana from the filter land seems like it could hurt. However, if you have a sum of at least 15 blue sources it could work.
after looking at the filter cards, seems i would have to build the deck BUG and filter-in white mana for WW or UW if needed.
I got confused on how they work....thought they were like Odyssey's cycle of filter lands. You need colored mana for Shadowmoor stuff but you have the option to go XY,XX,YY and that helps a ton. So maybe building 4color as BUG with the addition of STP and Elspeth as the only white cards (maybe decree?) -- the rest can all be BUG-derived. And paying U for the use of the UW filterland is then really doable.
White not being a high priority in 4 colors is just messing with my mind coming over from UW lol.
But Deed > Wrath, emphasis on Decree is slower, and Elspeth as a 2x in the deck should help. I'll post a list if I get somewhere in this weird logic of mine
Edit: Filterlands is stupid....the idea of BUG+white has merits....working on a weird list that could very much work
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Yeah, most likely you would need a green or a black mana to use the BG filter land which seems to stretch the manabase a bit. However, with the new fetchlands this seems easier to accomplish.
Alright, this puppy needs to be tested but I think I've stumbled upon some weirdness that may workout. FYI this is my first attempt at 4color Landstill:
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I don't really like living wish in a deck like this. It's sorcery speed (-1), grabs creatures mostly (-1) which can only be played at sorcery speed (-1). All of this leads to grabbing slow answers that will lead to you being tapped out very frequently, and even if they come with a body, those don't last long with 4 deeds and no other targets for your opponent's removal. Besides, the targets seem... weak.
If I were you, I'd scrap the idea (sorry ) and up the removal. 8 slots isn;t enough generally, maybe diabolic edicts, innocent bloods, or paths would do the trick. If I were playing landstill with gw in it, you'd be hard pressed to keep my from running 2x Nantuko Monestary as well. He eats so much of the format and hits hard. I'd run the super-fragile all non-basic manabase with one island, then 3 factory, 2 monestary and 2-3 wastes because waste+loam>format.
No DOJ also makes it look like you forfeit the merfolk matchup, since many decks are going to be able to play under standstill better than you.
I'd be tempted to keep witness out of the board... She seems hotness in a list like this, and post board she's not going to eat much removal. Also consider kitchen finks MB or SB for aggro hate, I hear it's damn good (even better, coupled with innocent blood in that 2-of removal slot).
If you keep wishes in, cut the academy ruins out of the board. You can get back... your two tops?
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Alright, this puppy needs to be tested but I think I've stumbled upon some weirdness that may workout. FYI this is my first attempt at 4color Landstill:
*SB can also do basic lands, duals #4 of what I run in the MB, Nantuko Monastery as land-based support, many potentials
I worked on a living wish 4c landstill deck before as well but after a little while living wish just didn't cut it. I think it did far too little then what I had imagined. But the reason why I tested living wish was because it seemed pretty good in theory and on paper.
Cunning wish seems like it could be solid though given the respected colors for the build. Although, if you choose not to run any wishes, that's fine too.
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This thread is to strictly discuss UWgb and Ugb Landstill variants.
Keep looking for updates in the opening page. I will try to add to this post whenever I have the time.
At the 2006 Legacy Championships a powerful control deck known as BHWC Landstill made a strong appearance by placing in the top 4. BHWC Landstill was created by a popular legacy san diego team known as BHWW. Complete Jank was one of the team members that designed BHWC landstill and still posts on these boards. Ever since BHWC landstill's breakout at the 2006 Legacy champs the deck began taking multiple top 8s in just about any tournament you can think of including the 2007 Legacy championships as well.
The modern UWgb landstill builds still have some resemblances to BHWC landstill. Some builds include Tarmogoyf and counterbalance while others were strictly set on board control and cycling 1/1 soldier tokens for the win.
Here are two BHWC Landstill lists that top 8'd at the 2007 and 2006 Legacy Championships:
4 Brainstorm
3 Fact or Fiction
4 Standstill
Countermagic
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
Removal
2 Disenchant
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Innocent Blood
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Crucible of Worlds
Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Nantuko Monastery
3 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
3 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
4 Meddling Mage
4 Duress
3 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Engineered Plague
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
3 Fact or Fiction
Countermagic
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
Artifacts
2 Crucible of Worlds
Removal
4 Swords to plowshares
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Disenchant
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Nantuko Monastery
1 Plains
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
4 Engineered Plague
4 Meddling Mage
4 Blue elemental blast
3 Duress
Common Countermagic Suite for UWbg Landstill:
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
Common Draw Suite for UWbg Landstill:
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
3 Fact or Fiction
Not as common Draw spells for UWgb Landstill:
Thirst for Knowledge
Ponder
Intuition
Gifts of Ungiven
Common removal spells for Ugwb Landstill:
Swords to plowshares
Pernicious Deed
Engineered explosives
Not so common removal spells for Ugwb Landstill:
Path to Exile
Vindicate
Wrath of God
Diabolic Edict
Slaughter Pact
Perish
Vendetta
Chainer's Edict
Smother
Nevinyrral's Disk
Innocent Blood
Maelstrom Pulse
Damnation
Powder Keg
Oblivion Stone
Oblivion Ring
Common win conditions in Ugbw Landstill:
Tarmogoyf
Tombstalker
Mishra's Factory
Nantuko Monastery
Not so common win conditions in Ugbw Landstill:
Gigapede
Decree of justice
Eternal Dragon
Elsepth, Knight-Errant
Ajani Goldmane
Garruck Wildspeaker
Morphling
Example 4c Landstill list:
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Plains
2 Tundra
1 Island
1 Scrubland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
Plainswalkers:
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Spells
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Counterspell
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Decree of Justice
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Cunning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
3 Spell Snare
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
2 Path to Exile
1 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Negate
1 Pulse of the Fields
4 Engineered Plague
Card Choices:
Engineered explosives: Awesome the swiss army knife against muliple of decks in this format. Landstill should definitely run these.
Counterspell: Still a solid counterspell but it has lost some of it's efficiency over the years. Considering this format has gotten much faster compared to the year 2007.
Pernicious Deed: A good board clearer in Legacy assuming if you can get around all of the stifles in this format.
Diabolic Edict: Good against creatures with shroud and other creatures that can ruin your day.
Decree of justice: I think everyone knows this one by now.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant: She's awesome against almost any deck even against aggro-control decks. I have won quite a few games with her and she definitely makes landstill a better deck overall.
Swords to plowshares: Best removal spell in legacy and one of the main reasons to run white in here.
Cunning Wish: A brilliant responsive tool that can turn bad matchups into good ones.
Brainstorm: It seems pretty obvious.
Standstill: Powerful with board clearers, decree of justice, and manlands.
Spell Snare: Since this format has gotten a lot faster with a bunch of 2 mana drops. I think spell snare is an worthy inclusion.
Sensei's Divining Top: Top stabalizes your manabase and underneath a standstill. From here you can manipulate your library to draw more lands.
Force of Will: The ability to have a free counterspell at our disposal is flawless especially when you want to counter something after drawing three from standstill.
Sideboard Card Choices:
Path to Exile: Having alternative swords to plowshares seems nice and in testing they prove to be potent against aggro-control or aggro decks.
Extirpate: This card can single handly steal you games and it has gotten better thanks to the versatility of Cunning Wish.
Krosan Grip: Good against counterbalance and Dreadnought and many other artifact/enchantment spells.
Enlightened Tutor: A powerful wish target that enables me to search for nearly everything I ever need in this deck.
Fact or Fiction: An pretty solid alternative to standstill, brainstorm, and top. FoF can turn the tables to your favor.
Negate: Awesome in attrition wars and can be solid against combo.
Pulse of the fields: With all of the aggro decks running around pulse of the fields is once against an all-star in this format.
Engineered Plague: With all of the tribal decks that are being heavily played in this format. Running E. Plague is a must.
Matchup Analysis:
Merfolks: This matchup is a very hard matchup for this deck. They can pretty much obsolete your mana resources via stifle and wasteland. Not to mention, they have an extremely fast clock and use standstills better then you because of aether vial and their ability to stream out constant threats to keep you at bay. You actually have a better chance postboard because having access to more removal and plague can help you out but if you play tightly you have a better chance.
Goblins: Possibly an easier matchup then merfolks but still tough because they run both rishadan port and wastelands. You have a much better chance postboard with engineered plague but it's still a rough fight for you.
RGW Zoo: Another pretty tough matchup especially if they run vexing shusher and price of progress. Just hope for the best that they don't run these cards and your chances of winning are much better. Pulse of the fields and path to exile would also be good here.
Tempo Threshold: This matchup is either roughly even or in favor of the threshold player. Stifle and wasteland is the main things to worry about in this matchup. Top and brainstorm will help you maintain a manabase even in the face of land disruption. You also have plenty of removal to help you too.
Countertop Threshold: A good matchup for you especially since you also run cunning wish which enables you to cast Krosan Grip. Spell snare and deed seem brilliant in this matchup as well. Postboard you have path to exiles and extirpates to help shut off their threats if need be.
Aggro-Loam: Pretty much a matchup that can swing either way for you but if you can cast an early Elspeth your chances to win this matchup becomes much greater. You need to be on the aggressive when playing this matchup. Cunning Wish gives you a solid chance to win games preboard because of extirpate and spell snares would come in handy here.
Eva Green: Usually a good matchup for Landstill. You have spell snares, force of wills, and brainstorms to subside their discard and land destruction. Postboard, it becomes easier with path to exiles and negates. Another plan to consider when playing this matchup is stockpile on lands and removal spells. All of your 1cc spells in this matchup are your best friends.
Affinity: Another good matchup for landstill because you have pernicious deed and multiple ways to remove their threats. I would watch out for aether vial if they run it though but then again you have engineered explosives and force of wills for those.
Dreadstill: Your pretty much favored in this matchup especially postboard with Krosan grip and engineered explosives really helps in this matchup as well. Keeping an healthy land count in your opening hands is also recommended when playing against dreadstill because in control matchups land drops are tech.
1 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
3 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
2 Ghastly Demise
4 Innocent Blood
3 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
2 Life from the Loam
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Spell Pierce
4 Standstill
1 Back to Nature
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Echoing Truth
1 Extirpate
1 Forbid
1 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Stifle
1 Submerge
1 Tsabo's Decree
Thanks glad you like the deck. Yeah I just didn't wanted to sound full of crap. I want people to take me seriously so I don't like to lie about matchups.
As for those matchups, I'll see if I can expand on my opening post whenever I can.
Pact of Negation doesn't seem like a good wish card in landstill because the main purprose of cunning wish is to advance your board state without hurting yourself in the end. I also think path to exile is strictly better then slaughter pact as well.
You could put stifle in there yes. There isn't no real way to build Landstill in general. Some people like running the wasteland and stifle package just to play standstills easier. I guess it depends on the environment but I imagine the stifle and wasteland combo works rather well in most metas. I just don't run either because I prefer more removal and countermagic. But there is a possibility that I could go back to running them.
I have two plains in the main just to hardcast an decree and it's also for Elspeth which is a house in alot of matchups.
I'd probably maindeck the Path to Exiles over Diabolic Edicts. How many popular creatures have shroud that Landstill cares about, honestly? I'd be more inclined to put the Diabolic Edict as a Wish target. PtE is cheaper, which seems to be better intrinsically.
You have two Decree of Justice, so I'd cut a Mishra's Factory for a basic land. Safer, even moreso for this deck.
With Cunning Wish in the deck, I would feel fine completely cutting Counterspell for a 4th Spell Snare, and another slot of ones choice. If anything, you could Wish for a Counterspell, if the need arises. Spell Snare seems to be an autoinclude, since it counters a tremendous amount of the compettitive Legacy format.
It's good to see you Chime in again Raze.
Well, with canadian threshold being extremely popular I often like to include Diabolic Edict for their mongeese.
I would agree that spell snare is really good but there has been times where I just prefer counterspell instead so it's good to run both.
Also, I would like to mention that I think Uwb landstill is just a better choice overall but I just wanted to write an 4c landstill thread since this variant has been significantly viable in the past.
Maybe Humility as a one of? You can do the whole Cunning Wish>>>Enlightened Tutor>>>>Humility string.
I'm not so sure about Top. Alot of people love it, especially under a Standstill. Really, the only reason I think it functions in this deck is because you run 8 fetchlands. Otherwise, those 2 slots would have went to something else.
I know it may sound weird, but I might have some discard in the SB versus control decks, like other Landstill, if you run black. It's cheap and proactive. Grabs an assortment of stuff. Depends oo the meta your in though. I used to run Duress in the SB when I ran UWB Landstill, and it worked well.
I hadn't really noticed before, but Cunning Wish gets a lot better with more colors. Extirpate and Grip are both fantastic.
Dropping an Edict for a third EE might be a good way of handling Nimble Mongeese, too, although the Edicts can also take out the random Progenitus.
This is the list I've been having a blast with:
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Temple Garden
4 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
2 Windswept Heath
4 Tarmogoyf
Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
1 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
1 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Life from the Loam
2 Wrath of God
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Standstill
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Jace Beleren