This thread has changed slightly from the initial intent as the problem it was created to discuss was quickly handled, but now the solution to the problem is now being discussed. I recommend to anyone new to this thread to read through it all before just posting.
We have a standard for what threads should contain in order to be in the Legacy Proven section and at this time we are going through and cleaning up that section. We need people to help with this project. We are going through and writing primers for Deck threads and Archetype threads that do not currently have them. We are also going through and posting threads for Decks and Archetypes that are not currently on these boards. If you know a good deal about a certain decks or archetype and want to volunteer to help write a primer that would be much appriciated.
Now, if you feel that you want to help but don't feel capeable of writing a primer yourself we will use this thread for discussion and editing of primers that will be posted. Questions and inputs now will help us create a better write up for each topic. If you don't see a deck or archetype that should be on the list let us know and we will look to get one added to the progress.
Things that should be covered in these Primers/Write-ups:
1. History of Development (If known)
2. Common deck list or lists if more than one list is played.
3. Reasoning on cards included in deck(s).
4. Reasoning certain cards are not included in deck(s).
5. General guide for play.
6. General guide for match ups
7. Match up rating. (Use the following ratings titles.)
- Favorable
- Slightly Favorable
- Evenly Matched
- Slightly Unfavorable
- Unfavorable
8. Good Finishes
9. Sideboard(s)
Thank you,
Mike
To make them Easier to see and promote support, here is what primers people have agreed to do, and what are still to be signed up for. - YuanTi
Fred Bear - Enchantress, Landstill YuanTi - Angelstax (D), Cephalid Breakfast(D), MUC (DC)(D) Belgareth - 42 Lands Sh33p - Burn (D), 9-Land Stompy (DC) (D) CJank - Survival Variants (D), Help with Landstill Pringlesman - Solidarity Frenger - 5/3 (DC) (D) Viroid - Help with Enchantress, Some of whats left over. Finn - GBW Control & Variants. (D), Threshold (D) Black Lotus - Goblins. (D) Stormscape Master - Red Death. Sephiroth Owa - Belcher.
Eldariel - Faerie Stompy (D)
These decks still need Primers:
Angel Stompy* (DC) Homebrew/Deadguy Ale & Variants (DC) Rifter* (DC) Dredge a' Tog* (DC) MBA Affinity and Variants (DC)
Iggy Pop
Ichorid Combo* If you can do one of these please do.
Thanks,
Nick.
(Stars indicate a new thread is unnecessary, otherwise feel free. (DC) Indicates it should go into Developing Competitive, but will be linked to from a Sticky.)
Sorry but I disagree.
The decks there are generating trafic/discussion, something this forum lacks.
It will be but a 10 minute job to mass move the threads to respective forums by new mod.
I will be adding primers/article links/write ups to all my threads within the week as I get time, but for now I'd rather see discussion/activity before the forum dies totally.
Agreed. You need traffic to need someone to direct it. Once activity is up, then we can worry about organization and the like.
Jank, you're probably going to find people are more or less going to disagree with your opinion on this. The only thing waiting a couple of weeks for a new mod is going to do is have people lose even more interest in this forum. Which is something I would hate to see, as unlike many other similar forums, TMD or the source, and their ilk, this site actualy tends to promote thinking outside of the box. No one here will blatantly tell you, you're an idiot for posting a valid, if unorthodox solution. Personally if this forum were to fall to the wayside, I would simply stop posting on legacy matters entirely. It just wouldn't be worth the hastle.
And the number one thing to keep this forum going right now is traffic. If we can actually get some good discussions going (and not on forum related matters as opposed to magic ones), then we may even be able to increase traffic (wishful thinking?). In anycase; doing nothing would be worse than doing something wrong.
As I said in the other thread there are some decks I am familiar with and could easily write up spoilers for (Note: if we were truly as rash as you seem to think I wouldn't have even asked and would have just gone ahead and posted them). I just need to know if I should be posting them or not. If no, that's fine, I'm just trying to do my part to save one of the few worthwhile forums on the net.
EDIT: In regard to your last post in the ECHO thread. I can agree. Full posts with proper write-ups are a must. Otherwise there really is no point. Just keep in mind most of those lists were posted as placeholders. Full intro's will be added time willing but the point here is to have there as a starting point.
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Jank, you're probably going to find people are more or less going to disagree with your opinion on this. The only thing waiting a couple of weeks for a new mod is going to do is have people lose even more interest in this forum. Which is something I would hate to see, as unlike many other similar forums, TMD or the source, and their ilk, this site actualy tends to promote thinking outside of the box. No one here will blatantly tell you, you're an idiot for posting a valid, if unorthodox solution. Personally if this forum were to fall to the wayside, I would simply stop posting on legacy matters entirely. It just wouldn't be worth the hastle.
I am aware that people will probably disagree. Active forums take a while to build a list of good threads with good information, it doesn't happen over night, that is one of the reasons you don't see new Legacy websites just starting up and being successful. Try building a website and you will realize this. Sure you can copy every relevent piece of information from another website, but that doesn't make traffic.
Yes this place allows for out of the box thinking, and that alone is a draw to many people. That should be the number 1 reason why we want to do this right. We already have the draw, just look at the people ready to ask questions about stuff they shouldn't even have to ask because a write up only contains a deck list and nothing more.
And the number one thing to keep this forum going right now is traffic. If we can actually get some good discussions going (and not on forum related matters as opposed to magic ones), then we may even be able to increase traffic (wishful thinking?). In anycase; doing nothing would be worse than doing something wrong.
This forum has been practically dead for more than 3 weeks now, but people still view it, and some of us even post as well. Many of you probably don't realize that when leading up to a prerelease activity drops on normal forums. Granted, you will have the few speculation threads but people start spending their time going over the spoilers and waiting to post something because of new cards coming out. If you watch, a cycle will be quite noticeable. Throw in the fact that it is september and school just started up for many then that is another reason why people don't post as much.
Take in logical thinking and add it to that out of the box thinking and you'll be better off. I'm not directing this at you Sh33p, but everyone that is jumping to fix things. I want things fixed and their to be a good amount of traffic on these boards, but I also don't want the proven section looking like ****, and that is exactly what it looks like right now.
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In Vintage (Type 1) > Budget Deck Discussion forum:
Actually the traffic is at about 5-10% of what it was when this forum started.
The proven forum will need a reshape by someone with access before it looks decent.
I'm not sure why you have said it's ok to wait 2 or so weeks for a mod but you can't wait a few days for those threads to be updated with primers etc.
It takes time to research and do things properly, so time is what it will take.
Please understand this is nothing against you, but I'd request you cease this negative attitude.
I expect that within two weeks (At the latest) everything will be flowing as if none of this was ever a problem. The staff has already mentioned that they would be back to us by today with what they would be doing with this situation. If it wouldn't take you more than a few days to update those threads with proper write ups, why didn't you just do that first rather than post it up.
Your not the only person who has done a moderator post.
I do not want to get into an argument with you, however as you can see, many people already disagree and it's the community that's important.
Belgareth, being a mod you should realize that doing things right is the best approach. Just because everyone disagrees with a certain approach does not mean it is the wrong approach. I often do not like the approach to a project that comes down from a supervisor, but if it is the right way to do it, then that is what needs to be done.
I like the fact that everyone is jumping to want to help make this a great forum again. I want it to be a great forum again as well, lets just follow the current rules.
As for the community, once most all the communities of the world thought the world was flat, and anyone stating otherwise was considered a heretic.
I'll volunteer to do Primers on Enchantress and Landstill (the apparently forgotten archetype - it'll cover the most common flavors) unless others with more experience would like to do them.
As I've said I'd gladly do both 9-10 land stompy and Burn. As is, the work I did on 9land is buried within the thread. I could slam the old burn thread but I won't. If it needs to be updated let me know and I will do a primer for either of these, if they aren't necessary then no worries.
Edit: all I'm looking for here is a yea or nea on either of these, then I can stop bringing this up. It doesn't matter if I do either just putting my hat in to try and help with what I know, just want an answer one way or the other.
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Those threads will be full within the week and with good content, as such I don't see why you have a problem.
Whoever seds et al decide upon , they need to be able to understand the communities desires not try to mold the forum into their desire.
I am not acting like a mod. I am analyzing things. I am very analytical in almost everything I do. I am just being me. If I have overstepped my boundaries in any way, it is because there is no mod right now, and being a member of the military when there is a lack of leadership the senior person steps up and takes charge. I am usually the senior person so it comes naturally. If I offended you by trying to make the transition a better one I am sorry.
I simply wanted to help yuan to revive a forum which was effectively a barren waste.
YuanTi was not the first person to bring this to the attention of the general public. Finn posted it here in this section first, and YuanTi made the post in the "Speak You Mind" section after seeing it here. I doubt many other people had been sending PM's to mods before this became widely known to the public. Lets consider the situation dropped as it isn't helping anything.
***
Puzzle, I agree with doing it that way. Let's also go so far as to get others to read over the primers written before adding them. We don't have to have people designated as Legacy Experts or Adepts to get an agreement on whether a Primer is good enough to post.
I'll volunteer to do Primers on Enchantress and Landstill (the apparently forgotten archetype - it'll cover the most common flavors) unless others with more experience would like to do them.
Fred Bear...
Fred, if you need any help with the Landstill, I have a great deal of experience with it, and specificly BHWW Landstill, so just send me a PM for any info you may need..
I think I can take the Survival Varients (ATS, RGSA, RECSUR, & WELDSUR) That will actually be quite a bit of typing for all those. When I finish those I'll take on another if need be.
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In Vintage (Type 1) > Budget Deck Discussion forum:
I have experience playing solidarity. I can write up a primer explaining card choices, but I might need help with matchups. If this is Ok, I can start work on it tonnight after Heroes. If anyone has any objections just pm me.
I can do goblins, but since its at least 3 decks, and I've been getting quite a bit of homework lately it might take me a while, but I do have experience with all three of those versions since I've played all of them. But I've also been hearing a lot of talk about BR goblins thrown around should I try to include at least a sample list? Or wait until it actually starts showing up somewhere?
I think it best if we used common terms to describe the match ups. I find that people usually argue over %'s even if it is something like 5% difference between what is posted and what they find through testing. Also, Combo decks actually don't ever have 100% to win a game. Freak stuff happens and bad draws have to be accounted for. It literally takes hundreds of games including sideboards to determine %'s. We don't have that amount of time to invest in every single deck.
Using the following terms should help prevent arguments.
About the card choices for Faerie Stompy mentioned earlier, Eldariel wrote a really detailed primer including matchups and card choices that's posted on the WoTC boards under the legacy primer's sticky. Someone should contact him and see if he would mind it posted here.
Media is not making me steal. But in a way is like the story of the very hot girl with the short skirt teasing the old sick guy with a history of rape.
About the card choices for Faerie Stompy mentioned earlier, Eldariel wrote a really detailed primer including matchups and card choices that's posted on the WoTC boards under the legacy primer's sticky. Someone should contact him and see if he would mind it posted here.
Scratch that, ill just PM him.
Thanks Frenger, I'm sure that we'll need AoK or another Mod to add the write up to the first post. There is some good discussion in that thread.
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In Vintage (Type 1) > Budget Deck Discussion forum:
I actually agree with Complete_Jank. The thread for Vile Horror is 50+ pages, and when new people post, they usually still ask the same questions over and over, because - even though I constantly update the first post - the 2nd-15th post (the rest of the first page) say absolutely nothing.
I am glad to see such a revolution (viva!) - it is cool to see people working together, since it rarely happens in real life, let alone online.
Maybe it's a testament to just how great this format is (once people get into it, they see it :))
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Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
People check your Private Message Inbox. I sent a PM to many of you that have shown interest in making these forums better. If you have not received the PM and felt you should have, PM me and I'll send it to you as well.
Thanks,
Mike
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In Vintage (Type 1) > Budget Deck Discussion forum:
Well, I'd volunteer for the Enchantress thread, since I have been playing various installments over time, ranging from the UG combo variant, to the WGr confinement lock and my own concoctions, but it seems that it has been taken by Fred Bear. I would love to help out with it if it's necessary.
Im willing to take up any deck here, get to know it and play enough matches to assess matchups and the like. I'm up for a challenge. So if anything is left in the end, I'm willing to invest some time into it and cook up a primer after that.
I have had allot of success with Goblins, GP top 32, 1st place in 2 power tournaments, and numerous top 8's. I would volunteer for the Goblins Primer if it is still open.
If nobody more qualified steps up, i could write a b/w/ homebrew primer, ive been playing around with the deck for a while, i would need help with the matchups though.
Media is not making me steal. But in a way is like the story of the very hot girl with the short skirt teasing the old sick guy with a history of rape.
YuanTi, lets go ahead and actually just make new threads for all/most of these, or at least delete all the posts in the current threads. Most of the questions and answers should be taken care of via the primers/writeups, and that should allow for solid discussion. Let's try and focus our primers/writeups to be like the Meathooks (Slivers) write up.
Since you will become the new mod I will send you the PM that I sent Binary. Let's see if we can take action on that to help out this process.
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In Vintage (Type 1) > Budget Deck Discussion forum:
If nobody more qualified steps up, i could write a b/w/ homebrew primer, ive been playing around with the deck for a while, i would need help with the matchups though.
I can help you with that. Kevin, Dean, and I have been a large influence on B/G & B/G/W that you see in our Meta. Jake & Michael have done great jobs in spinning off into their specific designes. If you want anything on B/G/U let me know, I think I'm one of the few that has taken that approach.
So What I am saying is if you want to take it on, there are people here to help you out. I believe it is our intention to have people review what we write before we post it up in an Official Thread anyways. I think we can just use this thread as the review process until we have a better solution.
All,
I am going to update the initial post to make this for the editing process on these primers.
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In Vintage (Type 1) > Budget Deck Discussion forum:
Some of these decks are not competitive anymore. Are we going to be concerned about that? If so,
Homebrew
5/3
MBA
Rifter
These decks are examples of not deserving of the same level of attention as most of the others on that list. Pardon me for stepping on the feet of others, but I speak what I have witnessed for a long time. Seriously, if anyone has the knowledge and desire to defend inclusion of these decks in a category that puts them on equal footing with Threshold, combo, and Goblins, I think we should hear it. But I have found that in tournaments these decks usually crumble in the early rounds.
I'm not convinced Solidarity is competitive anymore. With Goblins declining, and Threshold increasing, it is a tough sell. Add to that the fact that the newer combo decks are simply faster than they used to be, and you have a bad metagame for it.
Landstill has more flavors than Baskins and Robbins. The people invloved will have to collaborate.
I see the Angel Stompy thread. That deck is a dog. It is not remotely competitive. The fact that Death and Taxes is better than it at pretty much every single matchup does not help. It was a pet deck of the owner of another site, and almost decent when Goblins was ubiquitous.
Don't forget the BWG control/aggro control deck. Truffle Shuffle is probably the best choice to start from simply because it is the best-defined one these days. There are probably a dozen other plausible choices in this category, but none are as clear. I will write this.
MUC...umm. How can we have a primer? There is not a successful version of this deck.
Some of these decks are not competitive anymore. Are we going to be concerned about that? If so,
Homebrew
5/3
MBA
Rifter
Homebrew/Funkbrew/Better than Funkbrew are completely competitive. A few San Diego players have taken the time to work on this and it is viable, and actually one of the strongest Archetypes right now.
I'm not convinced Solidarity is competitive anymore. With Goblins declining, and Threshold increasing, it is a tough sell. Add to that the fact that the newer combo decks are simply faster than they used to be, and you have a bad metagame for it.
Solidarity should have actually fallen off the face of the earth by now, but I actually see a meta shaping where it would be possible for it to return. This Neo-Duress might actually change that though, and continue to shovel the dirt on its grave.
Landstill has more flavors than Baskins and Robbins. The people invloved will have to collaborate.
There are a few solid builds that rise above the rest. The Landstill Primer will be much more a discussion write up rather than a write up on each deck.
I see the Angel Stompy thread. That deck is a dog. It is not remotely competitive. The fact that Death and Taxes is better than it at pretty much every single matchup does not help. It was a pet deck of the owner of another site, and almost decent when Goblins was ubiquitous.
There are some metas where this is actually a good choice for a deck. 1st turn Morph 2nd turn swing with angel is strong as is some of the latest threats.
Don't forget the BWG control/aggro control deck. Truffle Shuffle is probably the best choice to start from simply because it is the best-defined one these days. There are probably a dozen other plausible choices in this category, but none are as clear. I will write this.
Truffle Shuffle is outdated, and like I mentioned above Homebrew/Funkbrew/BTF have been advanced farther than most people know. I have seen some Truffle Shuffle like decks pop up in my meta, but they actually much different. Truffle Shuffle needs to change if it is going to be considered a Competitive deck.
This thread has changed slightly from the initial intent as the problem it was created to discuss was quickly handled, but now the solution to the problem is now being discussed. I recommend to anyone new to this thread to read through it all before just posting.
We have a standard for what threads should contain in order to be in the Legacy Proven section and at this time we are going through and cleaning up that section. We need people to help with this project. We are going through and writing primers for Deck threads and Archetype threads that do not currently have them. We are also going through and posting threads for Decks and Archetypes that are not currently on these boards. If you know a good deal about a certain decks or archetype and want to volunteer to help write a primer that would be much appriciated.
Now, if you feel that you want to help but don't feel capeable of writing a primer yourself we will use this thread for discussion and editing of primers that will be posted. Questions and inputs now will help us create a better write up for each topic. If you don't see a deck or archetype that should be on the list let us know and we will look to get one added to the progress.
Things that should be covered in these Primers/Write-ups:
1. History of Development (If known)
2. Common deck list or lists if more than one list is played.
3. Reasoning on cards included in deck(s).
4. Reasoning certain cards are not included in deck(s).
5. General guide for play.
6. General guide for match ups
7. Match up rating. (Use the following ratings titles.)
- Favorable
- Slightly Favorable
- Evenly Matched
- Slightly Unfavorable
- Unfavorable
8. Good Finishes
9. Sideboard(s)
Thank you,
Mike
To make them Easier to see and promote support, here is what primers people have agreed to do, and what are still to be signed up for. - YuanTi
Fred Bear - Enchantress, Landstill
YuanTi - Angelstax (D), Cephalid Breakfast(D), MUC (DC)(D)
Belgareth - 42 Lands
Sh33p - Burn (D), 9-Land Stompy (DC) (D)
CJank - Survival Variants (D), Help with Landstill
Pringlesman - Solidarity
Frenger - 5/3 (DC) (D)
Viroid - Help with Enchantress, Some of whats left over.
Finn - GBW Control & Variants. (D), Threshold (D)
Black Lotus - Goblins. (D)
Stormscape Master - Red Death.
Sephiroth Owa - Belcher.
Eldariel - Faerie Stompy (D)
These decks still need Primers:
Angel Stompy* (DC)
Homebrew/Deadguy Ale & Variants (DC)
Rifter* (DC)
Dredge a' Tog* (DC)
MBA
Affinity and Variants (DC)
Iggy Pop
Ichorid Combo*
If you can do one of these please do.
Thanks,
Nick.
(Stars indicate a new thread is unnecessary, otherwise feel free. (DC) Indicates it should go into Developing Competitive, but will be linked to from a Sticky.)
EDIT: Updated discussion.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
Agreed. You need traffic to need someone to direct it. Once activity is up, then we can worry about organization and the like.
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
And the number one thing to keep this forum going right now is traffic. If we can actually get some good discussions going (and not on forum related matters as opposed to magic ones), then we may even be able to increase traffic (wishful thinking?). In anycase; doing nothing would be worse than doing something wrong.
As I said in the other thread there are some decks I am familiar with and could easily write up spoilers for (Note: if we were truly as rash as you seem to think I wouldn't have even asked and would have just gone ahead and posted them). I just need to know if I should be posting them or not. If no, that's fine, I'm just trying to do my part to save one of the few worthwhile forums on the net.
EDIT: In regard to your last post in the ECHO thread. I can agree. Full posts with proper write-ups are a must. Otherwise there really is no point. Just keep in mind most of those lists were posted as placeholders. Full intro's will be added time willing but the point here is to have there as a starting point.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
I am aware that people will probably disagree. Active forums take a while to build a list of good threads with good information, it doesn't happen over night, that is one of the reasons you don't see new Legacy websites just starting up and being successful. Try building a website and you will realize this. Sure you can copy every relevent piece of information from another website, but that doesn't make traffic.
Yes this place allows for out of the box thinking, and that alone is a draw to many people. That should be the number 1 reason why we want to do this right. We already have the draw, just look at the people ready to ask questions about stuff they shouldn't even have to ask because a write up only contains a deck list and nothing more.
This forum has been practically dead for more than 3 weeks now, but people still view it, and some of us even post as well. Many of you probably don't realize that when leading up to a prerelease activity drops on normal forums. Granted, you will have the few speculation threads but people start spending their time going over the spoilers and waiting to post something because of new cards coming out. If you watch, a cycle will be quite noticeable. Throw in the fact that it is september and school just started up for many then that is another reason why people don't post as much.
Take in logical thinking and add it to that out of the box thinking and you'll be better off. I'm not directing this at you Sh33p, but everyone that is jumping to fix things. I want things fixed and their to be a good amount of traffic on these boards, but I also don't want the proven section looking like ****, and that is exactly what it looks like right now.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
Yes, and I'm sure that will be soon.
This is not a negative attitude, but rather a view coming from someone who has done this all before, and had to do each of these steps before.
I expect that within two weeks (At the latest) everything will be flowing as if none of this was ever a problem. The staff has already mentioned that they would be back to us by today with what they would be doing with this situation. If it wouldn't take you more than a few days to update those threads with proper write ups, why didn't you just do that first rather than post it up.
This quote is my exact argument to why we shouldn't rush it. Lets get it right the first time, not have to go back in and overhaul it.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
Belgareth, being a mod you should realize that doing things right is the best approach. Just because everyone disagrees with a certain approach does not mean it is the wrong approach. I often do not like the approach to a project that comes down from a supervisor, but if it is the right way to do it, then that is what needs to be done.
I like the fact that everyone is jumping to want to help make this a great forum again. I want it to be a great forum again as well, lets just follow the current rules.
As for the community, once most all the communities of the world thought the world was flat, and anyone stating otherwise was considered a heretic.
Thank you for making that clear to anyone that missed the post the other day.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
Fred Bear...
Edit: all I'm looking for here is a yea or nea on either of these, then I can stop bringing this up. It doesn't matter if I do either just putting my hat in to try and help with what I know, just want an answer one way or the other.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
I am not acting like a mod. I am analyzing things. I am very analytical in almost everything I do. I am just being me. If I have overstepped my boundaries in any way, it is because there is no mod right now, and being a member of the military when there is a lack of leadership the senior person steps up and takes charge. I am usually the senior person so it comes naturally. If I offended you by trying to make the transition a better one I am sorry.
YuanTi was not the first person to bring this to the attention of the general public. Finn posted it here in this section first, and YuanTi made the post in the "Speak You Mind" section after seeing it here. I doubt many other people had been sending PM's to mods before this became widely known to the public. Lets consider the situation dropped as it isn't helping anything.
***
Puzzle, I agree with doing it that way. Let's also go so far as to get others to read over the primers written before adding them. We don't have to have people designated as Legacy Experts or Adepts to get an agreement on whether a Primer is good enough to post.
Fred, if you need any help with the Landstill, I have a great deal of experience with it, and specificly BHWW Landstill, so just send me a PM for any info you may need..
I think I can take the Survival Varients (ATS, RGSA, RECSUR, & WELDSUR) That will actually be quite a bit of typing for all those. When I finish those I'll take on another if need be.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
Using the following terms should help prevent arguments.
Favorable (Above 70% win)
Slightly Favorable (Roughly 60-70% win)
Evenly Matched (Roughly 45-55% win)
Slightly Unfavorable (Roughly 30-40% win)
Unfavorable (Below 30% win)
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
Scratch that, ill just PM him.
Thanks Frenger, I'm sure that we'll need AoK or another Mod to add the write up to the first post. There is some good discussion in that thread.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
I am glad to see such a revolution (viva!) - it is cool to see people working together, since it rarely happens in real life, let alone online.
Maybe it's a testament to just how great this format is (once people get into it, they see it :))
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
Thanks,
Mike
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
Since you will become the new mod I will send you the PM that I sent Binary. Let's see if we can take action on that to help out this process.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
I can help you with that. Kevin, Dean, and I have been a large influence on B/G & B/G/W that you see in our Meta. Jake & Michael have done great jobs in spinning off into their specific designes. If you want anything on B/G/U let me know, I think I'm one of the few that has taken that approach.
So What I am saying is if you want to take it on, there are people here to help you out. I believe it is our intention to have people review what we write before we post it up in an Official Thread anyways. I think we can just use this thread as the review process until we have a better solution.
All,
I am going to update the initial post to make this for the editing process on these primers.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
Homebrew
5/3
MBA
Rifter
These decks are examples of not deserving of the same level of attention as most of the others on that list. Pardon me for stepping on the feet of others, but I speak what I have witnessed for a long time. Seriously, if anyone has the knowledge and desire to defend inclusion of these decks in a category that puts them on equal footing with Threshold, combo, and Goblins, I think we should hear it. But I have found that in tournaments these decks usually crumble in the early rounds.
I'm not convinced Solidarity is competitive anymore. With Goblins declining, and Threshold increasing, it is a tough sell. Add to that the fact that the newer combo decks are simply faster than they used to be, and you have a bad metagame for it.
Landstill has more flavors than Baskins and Robbins. The people invloved will have to collaborate.
I see the Angel Stompy thread. That deck is a dog. It is not remotely competitive. The fact that Death and Taxes is better than it at pretty much every single matchup does not help. It was a pet deck of the owner of another site, and almost decent when Goblins was ubiquitous.
Don't forget the BWG control/aggro control deck. Truffle Shuffle is probably the best choice to start from simply because it is the best-defined one these days. There are probably a dozen other plausible choices in this category, but none are as clear. I will write this.
MUC...umm. How can we have a primer? There is not a successful version of this deck.
Homebrew/Funkbrew/Better than Funkbrew are completely competitive. A few San Diego players have taken the time to work on this and it is viable, and actually one of the strongest Archetypes right now.
Solidarity should have actually fallen off the face of the earth by now, but I actually see a meta shaping where it would be possible for it to return. This Neo-Duress might actually change that though, and continue to shovel the dirt on its grave.
There are a few solid builds that rise above the rest. The Landstill Primer will be much more a discussion write up rather than a write up on each deck.
There are some metas where this is actually a good choice for a deck. 1st turn Morph 2nd turn swing with angel is strong as is some of the latest threats.
Truffle Shuffle is outdated, and like I mentioned above Homebrew/Funkbrew/BTF have been advanced farther than most people know. I have seen some Truffle Shuffle like decks pop up in my meta, but they actually much different. Truffle Shuffle needs to change if it is going to be considered a Competitive deck.
MUC can have a discussion thread rather than a primer, but I agree MUC does not have a current successful build right now.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.