That was Colby saying he broke the format, and, if memory serves, he went undefeated at his Blue Bell tournament for a Mox with it. I don't play the deck at major tournaments as I believe Sun Tower (my Stax deck) is the best deck in the format.
Contract Tendrils has a very common honor of having no pilots. I do not trust myself to calculate the stats right to win a major, 10 round tournament (including top8), whereas I do trust Sun Tower to do that. I actually figured out how to consistently beat UGW Threshold game 2 with that deck, but it requires a transformational sideboard into Sui-black aggro. That's a common enough matchup that I consider it a bad choice for a major tournament. Contract Tendrils' matchups against UGW Threshold and UWb Fish are going to be 40% at best, if they win the dice roll and know ahead of time they are playing against Threshold/Fish.
As to Land Destroyer's claim, check Roland's report where he talks about his deck in the last round of swiss. You don't make it that far to play someone who top8s without being X-1 or X-1-1 going into that round, X-2 at very worst, which he wasn't. I was the X-2 with the worst tiebreaks, he finished higher than I did, and I finished 16th. If you want to verify my claims, ask one of my opponents at gencon, or PM me for some games over MWS/Apprentice. Better yet, pick up the deck yourself. A recent list is in the Stax discussion, or I'll PM you an updated list if you want.
AoK, POX is the way. it can beat all of those three decks that you mentioned with ease. please test it out. you will see. we have been testing quite a bit with it and it is definitely a dirty man's deck.
you feel so bad playing it because your opponent always feels so screwed.
Actually, I wouldn't feel bad at all. It's what my deck is supposed to do. Now, if my opponent was screwed by his own deck, and I contributed to that screw, then I would feel bad.
As for the claims of 80% or better against the three best decks in the format, I have yet to see anything that has that distinction. I'm not saying I disbelieve you, just that I personally have not seen it. Most competitive decks can beat two of them with some regularity, with one of them having much higher win percentages than the other, but it then usually gets mutilated by the third.
I can't see how any version of Stax can beat Solidarity like that, as I would think that it would take too long to get your engine up before they combo off on you. Any black storm deck can get screwed by the fact that by definition, black storm decks must be played at sorcery speed. Blue storm can then combo off your combo..I've seen it, and it's not nice at ALL. The only saving grace is the Leyline of the Void RFG'ing their hand...but I don't know if Contract Tendrils uses it. I'm not very familiar with that list.
Then there's the random factor. Sometimes random decks do randomly well.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
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Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
That was Colby saying he broke the format, and, if memory serves, he went undefeated at his Blue Bell tournament for a Mox with it. I don't play the deck at major tournaments as I believe Sun Tower (my Stax deck) is the best deck in the format.
My mistake, it was Colby.
Contract Tendrils has a very common honor of having no pilots. I do not trust myself to calculate the stats right to win a major, 10 round tournament (including top8), whereas I do trust Sun Tower to do that. I actually figured out how to consistently beat UGW Threshold game 2 with that deck, but it requires a transformational sideboard into Sui-black aggro. That's a common enough matchup that I consider it a bad choice for a major tournament. Contract Tendrils' matchups against UGW Threshold and UWb Fish are going to be 40% at best, if they win the dice roll and know ahead of time they are playing against Threshold/Fish.
I know quite a bit about your team's 2 decks, I've tested them both, and they are decent. I wasn't bashing on you, just using that as the last reference of someone "breaking" the format with a deck that really wasn't the next best thing.
As to Land Destroyer's claim, check Roland's report where he talks about his deck in the last round of swiss. You don't make it that far to play someone who top8s without being X-1 or X-1-1 going into that round, X-2 at very worst, which he wasn't. I was the X-2 with the worst tiebreaks, he finished higher than I did, and I finished 16th. If you want to verify my claims, ask one of my opponents at gencon, or PM me for some games over MWS/Apprentice. Better yet, pick up the deck yourself. A recent list is in the Stax discussion, or I'll PM you an updated list if you want.
I know you and he both did well. He did not, however, post a decklist, or really say much else than "Burning Bridges + Scepter Chant." I'm not sure why that would go 90% with Solidarity (especially with at least 4 dead cards in the MD), but hey, who am I to question people's supposed matchup percentages?
I can't see how any version of Stax can beat Solidarity like that, as I would think that it would take too long to get your engine up before they combo off on you.
I have never lost to Solidarity with UbaStax. I run 4x Chalice, 4x Trinisphere, 4x Smokestack, 2x Uba Mask, 3x Burning Wish -> Boiling Seas, 2x Pithing Needle that all can absolutely not hit play. I also run Sylvan Library to filter and find these cards. I run 12 lands that produce double mana turn 1, 4x moxen, and 4x crucible to accelerate out. Out of the board, I have 3x Boil in addition to the Boiling Seas, and Pithing NEedle (on fetches) to bring in, as well as Rolling Earthquake for yet a quicker clock taking out Ensnaring Bridge. I do not know of a deck that has a better Solidarity matchup than UbaStax, including Threshold and Pikula.
Any black storm deck can get screwed by the fact that by definition, black storm decks must be played at sorcery speed. Blue storm can then combo off your combo..I've seen it, and it's not nice at ALL. The only saving grace is the Leyline of the Void RFG'ing their hand...but I don't know if Contract Tendrils uses it. I'm not very familiar with that list.
Contract Tendrils would play the speed game vs Solidarity. No other deck is better equipped to do it than Contract Tendrils, but that matchup is a very coin-flippy match. You basically have 2 turns to go off (Contract Tendrils is easily a turn 1/2 deck), but you are racing them finding FoW. At turn 3 and later, it's pretty much game over as they have remand, FoW, infy card advantage, and will combo out at at their leisure.
The good thing is that you can easily find IGG and make them FoW it as bait, because if FoW resolves, they lose. Solidarity will not function on 3 cards on turn 1 or 2. You can probably bait with IGG and then combo off, but a hand like that would probably win regardless, Force of Not (multiple mana sources turn 1 and double business, happens about 18% of the time).
Then there's the random factor. Sometimes random decks do randomly well.
Agreed, Contract Tendrils is a deck that depends on luck/stastics more than possibly any other. It's a very coin-flippy deck, where you must set yourself up for the best possible odds, and then, they are at best 80%. Playing a long tournament with that kind of pressure is not what I would like to do. I would sooner pilot Vintage SX/Meandeck Tendrils than SI/Contract Tendrils through a major tournament.
I have never lost to Solidarity with UbaStax. I run 4x Chalice, 4x Trinisphere, 4x Smokestack, 2x Uba Mask, 3x Burning Wish -> Boiling Seas, 2x Pithing Needle that all can absolutely not hit play. I also run Sylvan Library to filter and find these cards. I run 12 lands that produce double mana turn 1, 4x moxen, and 4x crucible to accelerate out. Out of the board, I have 3x Boil in addition to the Boiling Seas, and Pithing NEedle (on fetches) to bring in, as well as Rolling Earthquake for yet a quicker clock taking out Ensnaring Bridge. I do not know of a deck that has a better Solidarity matchup than UbaStax, including Threshold and Pikula.
Wow. Yeah, it sounds as if you have quite a few answers there.
So tell me, what are your bad matchups? What is it that you usually have a hard time against? With Bridge/Mask, I can't see aggro being much of a problem past the first couple of turns.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Wow. Yeah, it sounds as if you have quite a few answers there.
So tell me, what are your bad matchups? What is it that you usually have a hard time against? With Bridge/Mask, I can't see aggro being much of a problem past the first couple of turns.
Goblins is only 50/50. Preboard, you need a quick Ensnaring Bridge and need to find either removal for SGC, Pithing Needle on SGC, or Smokestack to lock up the game quickly. Post-board, you get additional removal, and Constant Mists, which is a buyback fog that combos with Crucible. You also get more needles. You have enough to stop their nuts draws, but their board can wreck you. It depends heavily on the Goblins build. Some will be closer to 60/40 post-board, some will be as bad as 20/80. You always have a shot on the play, because you get Trinisphere + Mox Diamond about 16% of the time. The deck tends to win when its opponents can't play spells.
You will probably roll slower aggro. Affinity could be a tough matchup because they have Fling which you need Chalice for, Ornithopter + Ravager to answer Ensnaring Bridge (Needle solves this), and Ornithopter + Cranial Plating in some builds (Pithing Needle is amazing here too).
I don't want to shift the discussion away from its intended target, so I will only ask one potentially stupid question since I am woefully uneducated on T1 tech.
I thought Uba Mask was good for hosing Brainstorm. How is it an Ancestral Recall? Of course, the turn it goes off, Solidarity does not really care about the end of turn drawback, but what about the turns leading up to that? Doesn't Brainstorm say you can play the top three cards this turn only, then if your hand isn't empty put two cards on top of your library?
It just sounds like it hurts alot more than it helps unless your hand was empty to start.
I don't want to shift the discussion away from its intended target, so I will only ask one potentially stupid question since I am woefully uneducated on T1 tech.
I thought Uba Mask was good for hosing Brainstorm. How is it an Ancestral Recall? Of course, the turn it goes off, Solidarity does not really care about the end of turn drawback, but what about the turns leading up to that? Doesn't Brainstorm say you can play the top three cards this turn only, then if your hand isn't empty put two cards on top of your library?
It just sounds like it hurts alot more than it helps unless your hand was empty to start.
Remember, Uba Mask does not have an "uEoT" clause. So, Brainstorm becomes a better Ancestral due to the fact that you can play the removed cards until somebody deals with the Mask... I'd guess this is where Goblin Welder shines, right? You'd let your opponent draw as many cards as possible and weld the mask out of play (effetively removing the drawn cards from the game only to be Wish-fetched).
Or am I thinking of a different form of Welder-Stax altogether?
I don't want to shift the discussion away from its intended target, so I will only ask one potentially stupid question since I am woefully uneducated on T1 tech.
I thought Uba Mask was good for hosing Brainstorm. How is it an Ancestral Recall? Of course, the turn it goes off, Solidarity does not really care about the end of turn drawback, but what about the turns leading up to that? Doesn't Brainstorm say you can play the top three cards this turn only, then if your hand isn't empty put two cards on top of your library?
It just sounds like it hurts alot more than it helps unless your hand was empty to start.
It does hurt them up until the point where they empty their hand. At that point, it Brainstorm is an Ancestral Recall. Lion's Eye Diamond becomes Black Lotus as well with Uba Mask. The advantages of the disruption outweight the potential benefits to the opponent I think. If my opponent has no cards in their hand, I'm winning. Few, if any, decks want to be in a topdeck war against Stax.
Remember, Uba Mask does not have an "uEoT" clause. So, Brainstorm becomes a better Ancestral due to the fact that you can play the removed cards until somebody deals with the Mask... I'd guess this is where Goblin Welder shines, right? You'd let your opponent draw as many cards as possible and weld the mask out of play (effetively removing the drawn cards from the game only to be Wish-fetched).
Or am I thinking of a different form of Welder-Stax altogether?
Well, that is part of the UbaLock trick. If the Uba Mask that you removed your cards to leaves play, the static ability that would let you play those removed cards is gone, and therefore you can't play them.
However, you must remember that Uba Mask only allows you to play cards that have been removed THIS TURN. After this turns ends, you can no longer play the cards. This is why it is so good at destroying the optimization strategies combo tries to use before going off.
Remember, Uba Mask does not have an "uEoT" clause. So, Brainstorm becomes a better Ancestral due to the fact that you can play the removed cards until somebody deals with the Mask...
This isn't true. You only have until the end of turn to play the cards. It's still good though.
Damn, the gameplay is complicated as hell surrounding that card. But if I am understanding things correctly, Uba Mask IS a good hoser for storm (well except for the mana cost) since Solidarity in topdeck mode is dead as hell.
Damn, the gameplay is complicated as hell surrounding that card. But if I am understanding things correctly, Uba Mask IS a good hoser for storm (well except for the mana cost) since Solidarity in topdeck mode is dead as hell.
Now i am tempted to experiment with it.
It really isn't THAT good as a Solidarity hoser on its own. If the do get into topdeck mode, their Brainstorms get them right back into the game, plus their Meditates are especially better in the Stax matchup. It's much better vs Gro, effectively shutting off all of their Counterspells, Swords to Plowshares, and forcing them to use their cantrips on their own turn.
Actually, the sole reason it's good in the Stax matchup is that it forces Solidarity to bounce it in order to win. With Uba Mask on the table, players can't be "decked".
Actually, I wouldn't feel bad at all. It's what my deck is supposed to do. Now, if my opponent was screwed by his own deck, and I contributed to that screw, then I would feel bad.
As for the claims of 80% or better against the three best decks in the format, I have yet to see anything that has that distinction. I'm not saying I disbelieve you, just that I personally have not seen it. Most competitive decks can beat two of them with some regularity, with one of them having much higher win percentages than the other, but it then usually gets mutilated by the third.
I can't see how any version of Stax can beat Solidarity like that, as I would think that it would take too long to get your engine up before they combo off on you. Any black storm deck can get screwed by the fact that by definition, black storm decks must be played at sorcery speed. Blue storm can then combo off your combo..I've seen it, and it's not nice at ALL. The only saving grace is the Leyline of the Void RFG'ing their hand...but I don't know if Contract Tendrils uses it. I'm not very familiar with that list.
Then there's the random factor. Sometimes random decks do randomly well.
AoK, POX definitely is near 80% against the 3 top decks in the format. you have to remember their are a lot of rogue decks out there that are flat out BAD news for POX. well i wouldnt call them rogue, but i would call them competitive second tier decks. POX is horrible versus landstill. HORRIBLE!!! they freaking dont need to do any except for getting a crucible of worlds into play and something like exploration..
also pox is bad against stuff like mono-red burn (55-45 in their favor in versions without the rack main), and pox is bad against survival of the fittest decks (60-40 in their favor).
but POX destroys solidarity, goblins, angel stomp, and iggy pop. it is just a terrible match up for them. i believe a pox deck won a major 1.5 tourney recently also. but the reasons why pox is strong and successful are similar to the ones that made pikula's deck good.
test it out and give it a swing, but if you run against landstill. it is a near autoscoop. :-(
oh yaw about uba mask decks. yaw they are good. i built one a while back and it is pretty strong in the meta versus a lot of decks however there are a lot of decks that it is horrible against like stuff like mono-red burn. :-p or the rock. deeds are freakin amazing as well as eternal witness with unearth and evil braids.
Dunno if he wants me to tell buy my "friend" is running WildfireStax. Havent seen it around, but I'm not into Vintage much.
I feel its quite good with all the land interaction and threates. It dies to land screw (19 land i think) but seems to be good against the deck he was using. ( barrowed the deck, he used some others)
oh yaw about uba mask decks. yaw they are good. i built one a while back and it is pretty strong in the meta versus a lot of decks however there are a lot of decks that it is horrible against like stuff like mono-red burn. :-p or the rock. deeds are freakin amazing as well as eternal witness with unearth and evil braids.
If I could play mono-red burn all day long I'd likely go X-0. Chalice, 3sphere, Smokestack, are all amazing answers to burn that neuter their deck.
Actually, I've found Deeds decks to be seriously lacking vs UbaStax. They were good at Champs before I decided to not be retarded and run 4x Pithing Needle and still played bad cards like Tangle Wire. Eternal Witness is usually suppressed with Chalice @ 3, which is a pretty good target, easily attainable around turn 3/4. The only deck that can give you serious problems running Deed is 4c Landstill preboard, but that's because they will rarely let Needle resolve once they've studied the matchup a bit. Anything else is fair game as long as it doesn't cause them to lose immediately.
The rock isn't a serious threat as I can play all of my threats the turn I draw them. They have no significant manabase disruption, and just sit there accruing discard while I play lock pieces with a Needle on Deed. Usually, they end up in a situation where they are racing Sylvan Library/Uba Mask, and they are in a poor position to do that, given the Recurring Nightmare/Wall of Blossoms/Eternal Witness engine is probably slower than finding and resolving 4 AKs by themself without Intuition.
I'm not sure what Uba Mask deck you are talking about, as I don't know of another deck abusing Uba Mask, but if you play Needles MD, Welders out of the board, and relevant lock pieces, you will have no trouble dispatching randomness like B/G Aggro-Control. Did you use one of my lists, or are you referring to a deck of your own creation?
emidln, seraphim3577, and i played in the danville, IL tournament today, emidln will probably post more later (i don't want to spend long on here tonight). 12 players showed up, 4 rounds, then cut to top 4 single-elim.
Round 1: I beat bad red deck
Round 2: ... Don't remember, wow...that was like only 6 hours ago ... EDIT (I REMEMBERED): Round 2 I 2-0'd a bad affinity deck.
Round 3: I lost 1-2 to burn, burn, burn, burn...did I say lots of burn and maindeck oblivion stone + damping matrix (the turn after I scepter a helix) in game 1!
Round 4: I beat MBC (not a good build though)
Round 5: I play against seraphim3577 (my roommate nick) who is playing what he describes at greenless threshold I think, but some people might call WUB Fish. He got me games 2 and 3, so I got eliminated (only sad that I lost to the burn player game 1 and 3). I am pretty sure that if I'd played in the semis against the guy Seraphim3577 beat in the finals, I would have won, so Nick and I would have split the finals, but oh well...
Perhaps I'll write more later. My deck isn't built for little tournaments like that were you expect a lot of burn, it's built for big tournaments with lots of goblins, thresh, and solidarity.
So, basically, if you're preparing for GP Columbus, prepare for the main decks like the top 3 above, for smaller tournaments, prepare for lots of burn.
emidln, seraphim3577, and i played in the danville, IL tournament today, emidln will probably post more later (i don't want to spend long on here tonight). 12 players showed up, 4 rounds, then cut to top 4 single-elim.
Round 1: I beat bad red deck
Round 2: ... Don't remember, wow...that was like only 6 hours ago ...
Round 3: I lose 1-2 to burn, burn, burn, burn...did I say lots of burn and maindeck oblivion stone + damping matrix (the turn after I scepter a helix) in game 1!
Round 4: I beat MBC (not a good build though)
Round 5: I play against seraphim3577 (my roommate nick) who is playing what he describes at greenless threshold I think, but some people might call WUB Fish. He got me games 2 and 3, so I got eliminated (only sad that I lost to the burn player game 1 and 3). I am pretty sure that if I'd played in the semis against the guy Seraphim3577 beat in the finals, I would have won, so Nick and I would have split the finals, but oh well...
Perhaps I'll write more later. My deck isn't built for little tournaments like that were you expect a lot of burn, it's built for big tournaments with lots of goblins, thresh, and solidarity.
So, basically, if you're preparing for GP Columbus, prepare for the main decks like the top 3 above, for smaller tournaments, prepare for lots of burn.
Played @ BC Collectibles? I visit Floyd and Vicki when I'm in town... My wife is from there (Danville, not BC Collectibles ;)). I needs to swing by the next time we're up there. Thanksgiving time frame?
Played @ BC Collectibles? I visit Floyd and Vicki when I'm in town... My wife is from there (Danville, not BC Collectibles ;)). I needs to swing by the next time we're up there. Thanksgiving time frame?
Yeah, that's the place. He's hoping to get more legacy tournaments going. i'm interested in that.
If I could play mono-red burn all day long I'd likely go X-0. Chalice, 3sphere, Smokestack, are all amazing answers to burn that neuter their deck.
Actually, I've found Deeds decks to be seriously lacking vs UbaStax. They were good at Champs before I decided to not be retarded and run 4x Pithing Needle and still played bad cards like Tangle Wire. Eternal Witness is usually suppressed with Chalice @ 3, which is a pretty good target, easily attainable around turn 3/4. The only deck that can give you serious problems running Deed is 4c Landstill preboard, but that's because they will rarely let Needle resolve once they've studied the matchup a bit. Anything else is fair game as long as it doesn't cause them to lose immediately.
The rock isn't a serious threat as I can play all of my threats the turn I draw them. They have no significant manabase disruption, and just sit there accruing discard while I play lock pieces with a Needle on Deed. Usually, they end up in a situation where they are racing Sylvan Library/Uba Mask, and they are in a poor position to do that, given the Recurring Nightmare/Wall of Blossoms/Eternal Witness engine is probably slower than finding and resolving 4 AKs by themself without Intuition.
I'm not sure what Uba Mask deck you are talking about, as I don't know of another deck abusing Uba Mask, but if you play Needles MD, Welders out of the board, and relevant lock pieces, you will have no trouble dispatching randomness like B/G Aggro-Control. Did you use one of my lists, or are you referring to a deck of your own creation?
trust me in that burn wipes out uba mask type of decks. true that burn can be hampered by chalice of the void for 1. but honestly any smart burn deck will run lavamancers, goblin fanatics, and shattering spree (spree in side). if they get one of those guys out versus mask it is over. chalice doesnt stop the spree replicated copies (you will have to get the ruling on this one for it in the ruling area).
yes pithing needle can stop deeds. but you are playing against green/black!!! they have freaking therapy, duress, naturalize, and oh yaw... krosan grip!!!
that card is freaking a powerhouse in 1.5. krosan grip and sudden shock. sudden shock alone made psychatog obsolete in 1.5.
but deed can clear everything up. but the deck i was talking about was green/black/white rock that runs deeds, sword of light and shadow, unearth, eternal witness, birds of paradise, braids, vindicate, gerrad's verdict and of course therapy.
that deck is a monster versus a lot of locking decks, because it has an answer for most situations.
trust me in that burn wipes out uba mask type of decks. true that burn can be hampered by chalice of the void for 1. but honestly any smart burn deck will run lavamancers, goblin fanatics, and shattering spree (spree in side). if they get one of those guys out versus mask it is over. chalice doesnt stop the spree replicated copies (you will have to get the ruling on this one for it in the ruling area).
yes pithing needle can stop deeds. but you are playing against green/black!!! they have freaking therapy, duress, naturalize, and oh yaw... krosan grip!!!
that card is freaking a powerhouse in 1.5. krosan grip and sudden shock. sudden shock alone made psychatog obsolete in 1.5.
but deed can clear everything up. but the deck i was talking about was green/black/white rock that runs deeds, sword of light and shadow, unearth, eternal witness, birds of paradise, braids, vindicate, gerrad's verdict and of course therapy.
that deck is a monster versus a lot of locking decks, because it has an answer for most situations.
Chalice of the Void is a problem for burn. Mogg Fanatic and Lavamancer do not spell answers for Chalice at 1.
Sudden Shock is not the card that makes Psychatog obsolete in Legacy. Psychatog is the card that makes Psychatog obsolete in Legacy.
The deck you are referring to (Rock/w) is terrible. I suppose it has a lot of answers, but it runs a slew of bad cards, so in general, I'm less than concerned.
If you want to play Thresh, either play UGR or UGWR. Pycoclasm is the best answer to Goblins in the current meta, especially with cards like Krosan Grip/Chalice hurting decks relying on Blue Blasts and Plague.
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We really should link to some articles on this topic to keep it a good source of info especially for newcomers. I think Bardo's article is an EXCELLENT resource to folks just peeking in to test the waters.
AoK, could you please put this one atop a link section in the opening post.
Contract Tendrils has a very common honor of having no pilots. I do not trust myself to calculate the stats right to win a major, 10 round tournament (including top8), whereas I do trust Sun Tower to do that. I actually figured out how to consistently beat UGW Threshold game 2 with that deck, but it requires a transformational sideboard into Sui-black aggro. That's a common enough matchup that I consider it a bad choice for a major tournament. Contract Tendrils' matchups against UGW Threshold and UWb Fish are going to be 40% at best, if they win the dice roll and know ahead of time they are playing against Threshold/Fish.
As to Land Destroyer's claim, check Roland's report where he talks about his deck in the last round of swiss. You don't make it that far to play someone who top8s without being X-1 or X-1-1 going into that round, X-2 at very worst, which he wasn't. I was the X-2 with the worst tiebreaks, he finished higher than I did, and I finished 16th. If you want to verify my claims, ask one of my opponents at gencon, or PM me for some games over MWS/Apprentice. Better yet, pick up the deck yourself. A recent list is in the Stax discussion, or I'll PM you an updated list if you want.
Actually, I wouldn't feel bad at all. It's what my deck is supposed to do. Now, if my opponent was screwed by his own deck, and I contributed to that screw, then I would feel bad.
As for the claims of 80% or better against the three best decks in the format, I have yet to see anything that has that distinction. I'm not saying I disbelieve you, just that I personally have not seen it. Most competitive decks can beat two of them with some regularity, with one of them having much higher win percentages than the other, but it then usually gets mutilated by the third.
I can't see how any version of Stax can beat Solidarity like that, as I would think that it would take too long to get your engine up before they combo off on you. Any black storm deck can get screwed by the fact that by definition, black storm decks must be played at sorcery speed. Blue storm can then combo off your combo..I've seen it, and it's not nice at ALL. The only saving grace is the Leyline of the Void RFG'ing their hand...but I don't know if Contract Tendrils uses it. I'm not very familiar with that list.
Then there's the random factor. Sometimes random decks do randomly well.
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Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
I know quite a bit about your team's 2 decks, I've tested them both, and they are decent. I wasn't bashing on you, just using that as the last reference of someone "breaking" the format with a deck that really wasn't the next best thing.
I know you and he both did well. He did not, however, post a decklist, or really say much else than "Burning Bridges + Scepter Chant." I'm not sure why that would go 90% with Solidarity (especially with at least 4 dead cards in the MD), but hey, who am I to question people's supposed matchup percentages?
I have never lost to Solidarity with UbaStax. I run 4x Chalice, 4x Trinisphere, 4x Smokestack, 2x Uba Mask, 3x Burning Wish -> Boiling Seas, 2x Pithing Needle that all can absolutely not hit play. I also run Sylvan Library to filter and find these cards. I run 12 lands that produce double mana turn 1, 4x moxen, and 4x crucible to accelerate out. Out of the board, I have 3x Boil in addition to the Boiling Seas, and Pithing NEedle (on fetches) to bring in, as well as Rolling Earthquake for yet a quicker clock taking out Ensnaring Bridge. I do not know of a deck that has a better Solidarity matchup than UbaStax, including Threshold and Pikula.
Contract Tendrils would play the speed game vs Solidarity. No other deck is better equipped to do it than Contract Tendrils, but that matchup is a very coin-flippy match. You basically have 2 turns to go off (Contract Tendrils is easily a turn 1/2 deck), but you are racing them finding FoW. At turn 3 and later, it's pretty much game over as they have remand, FoW, infy card advantage, and will combo out at at their leisure.
The good thing is that you can easily find IGG and make them FoW it as bait, because if FoW resolves, they lose. Solidarity will not function on 3 cards on turn 1 or 2. You can probably bait with IGG and then combo off, but a hand like that would probably win regardless, Force of Not (multiple mana sources turn 1 and double business, happens about 18% of the time).
Agreed, Contract Tendrils is a deck that depends on luck/stastics more than possibly any other. It's a very coin-flippy deck, where you must set yourself up for the best possible odds, and then, they are at best 80%. Playing a long tournament with that kind of pressure is not what I would like to do. I would sooner pilot Vintage SX/Meandeck Tendrils than SI/Contract Tendrils through a major tournament.
I have never lost to Solidarity with UbaStax. I run 4x Chalice, 4x Trinisphere, 4x Smokestack, 2x Uba Mask, 3x Burning Wish -> Boiling Seas, 2x Pithing Needle that all can absolutely not hit play. I also run Sylvan Library to filter and find these cards. I run 12 lands that produce double mana turn 1, 4x moxen, and 4x crucible to accelerate out. Out of the board, I have 3x Boil in addition to the Boiling Seas, and Pithing NEedle (on fetches) to bring in, as well as Rolling Earthquake for yet a quicker clock taking out Ensnaring Bridge. I do not know of a deck that has a better Solidarity matchup than UbaStax, including Threshold and Pikula.
Wow. Yeah, it sounds as if you have quite a few answers there.
So tell me, what are your bad matchups? What is it that you usually have a hard time against? With Bridge/Mask, I can't see aggro being much of a problem past the first couple of turns.
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Goblins is only 50/50. Preboard, you need a quick Ensnaring Bridge and need to find either removal for SGC, Pithing Needle on SGC, or Smokestack to lock up the game quickly. Post-board, you get additional removal, and Constant Mists, which is a buyback fog that combos with Crucible. You also get more needles. You have enough to stop their nuts draws, but their board can wreck you. It depends heavily on the Goblins build. Some will be closer to 60/40 post-board, some will be as bad as 20/80. You always have a shot on the play, because you get Trinisphere + Mox Diamond about 16% of the time. The deck tends to win when its opponents can't play spells.
You will probably roll slower aggro. Affinity could be a tough matchup because they have Fling which you need Chalice for, Ornithopter + Ravager to answer Ensnaring Bridge (Needle solves this), and Ornithopter + Cranial Plating in some builds (Pithing Needle is amazing here too).
I thought Uba Mask was good for hosing Brainstorm. How is it an Ancestral Recall? Of course, the turn it goes off, Solidarity does not really care about the end of turn drawback, but what about the turns leading up to that? Doesn't Brainstorm say you can play the top three cards this turn only, then if your hand isn't empty put two cards on top of your library?
It just sounds like it hurts alot more than it helps unless your hand was empty to start.
Remember, Uba Mask does not have an "uEoT" clause.So, Brainstorm becomes a better Ancestral due to the fact that you can play the removed cards until somebody deals with the Mask... I'd guess this is where Goblin Welder shines, right? You'd let your opponent draw as many cards as possible and weld the mask out of play (effetively removing the drawn cards from the game only to be Wish-fetched).Or am I thinking of a different form of Welder-Stax altogether?
Retired MTGS Rules Guru
It does hurt them up until the point where they empty their hand. At that point, it Brainstorm is an Ancestral Recall. Lion's Eye Diamond becomes Black Lotus as well with Uba Mask. The advantages of the disruption outweight the potential benefits to the opponent I think. If my opponent has no cards in their hand, I'm winning. Few, if any, decks want to be in a topdeck war against Stax.
Well, that is part of the UbaLock trick. If the Uba Mask that you removed your cards to leaves play, the static ability that would let you play those removed cards is gone, and therefore you can't play them.
However, you must remember that Uba Mask only allows you to play cards that have been removed THIS TURN. After this turns ends, you can no longer play the cards. This is why it is so good at destroying the optimization strategies combo tries to use before going off.
Thanks!
Retired MTGS Rules Guru
Now i am tempted to experiment with it.
It really isn't THAT good as a Solidarity hoser on its own. If the do get into topdeck mode, their Brainstorms get them right back into the game, plus their Meditates are especially better in the Stax matchup. It's much better vs Gro, effectively shutting off all of their Counterspells, Swords to Plowshares, and forcing them to use their cantrips on their own turn.
AoK, POX definitely is near 80% against the 3 top decks in the format. you have to remember their are a lot of rogue decks out there that are flat out BAD news for POX. well i wouldnt call them rogue, but i would call them competitive second tier decks. POX is horrible versus landstill. HORRIBLE!!! they freaking dont need to do any except for getting a crucible of worlds into play and something like exploration..
also pox is bad against stuff like mono-red burn (55-45 in their favor in versions without the rack main), and pox is bad against survival of the fittest decks (60-40 in their favor).
but POX destroys solidarity, goblins, angel stomp, and iggy pop. it is just a terrible match up for them. i believe a pox deck won a major 1.5 tourney recently also. but the reasons why pox is strong and successful are similar to the ones that made pikula's deck good.
test it out and give it a swing, but if you run against landstill. it is a near autoscoop. :-(
oh yaw about uba mask decks. yaw they are good. i built one a while back and it is pretty strong in the meta versus a lot of decks however there are a lot of decks that it is horrible against like stuff like mono-red burn. :-p or the rock. deeds are freakin amazing as well as eternal witness with unearth and evil braids.
I feel its quite good with all the land interaction and threates. It dies to land screw (19 land i think) but seems to be good against the deck he was using. ( barrowed the deck, he used some others)
If I could play mono-red burn all day long I'd likely go X-0. Chalice, 3sphere, Smokestack, are all amazing answers to burn that neuter their deck.
Actually, I've found Deeds decks to be seriously lacking vs UbaStax. They were good at Champs before I decided to not be retarded and run 4x Pithing Needle and still played bad cards like Tangle Wire. Eternal Witness is usually suppressed with Chalice @ 3, which is a pretty good target, easily attainable around turn 3/4. The only deck that can give you serious problems running Deed is 4c Landstill preboard, but that's because they will rarely let Needle resolve once they've studied the matchup a bit. Anything else is fair game as long as it doesn't cause them to lose immediately.
The rock isn't a serious threat as I can play all of my threats the turn I draw them. They have no significant manabase disruption, and just sit there accruing discard while I play lock pieces with a Needle on Deed. Usually, they end up in a situation where they are racing Sylvan Library/Uba Mask, and they are in a poor position to do that, given the Recurring Nightmare/Wall of Blossoms/Eternal Witness engine is probably slower than finding and resolving 4 AKs by themself without Intuition.
I'm not sure what Uba Mask deck you are talking about, as I don't know of another deck abusing Uba Mask, but if you play Needles MD, Welders out of the board, and relevant lock pieces, you will have no trouble dispatching randomness like B/G Aggro-Control. Did you use one of my lists, or are you referring to a deck of your own creation?
Round 1: I beat bad red deck
Round 2: ... Don't remember, wow...that was like only 6 hours ago ...
EDIT (I REMEMBERED): Round 2 I 2-0'd a bad affinity deck.
Round 3: I lost 1-2 to burn, burn, burn, burn...did I say lots of burn and maindeck oblivion stone + damping matrix (the turn after I scepter a helix) in game 1!
Round 4: I beat MBC (not a good build though)
Round 5: I play against seraphim3577 (my roommate nick) who is playing what he describes at greenless threshold I think, but some people might call WUB Fish. He got me games 2 and 3, so I got eliminated (only sad that I lost to the burn player game 1 and 3). I am pretty sure that if I'd played in the semis against the guy Seraphim3577 beat in the finals, I would have won, so Nick and I would have split the finals, but oh well...
Perhaps I'll write more later. My deck isn't built for little tournaments like that were you expect a lot of burn, it's built for big tournaments with lots of goblins, thresh, and solidarity.
So, basically, if you're preparing for GP Columbus, prepare for the main decks like the top 3 above, for smaller tournaments, prepare for lots of burn.
Played @ BC Collectibles? I visit Floyd and Vicki when I'm in town... My wife is from there (Danville, not BC Collectibles ;)). I needs to swing by the next time we're up there. Thanksgiving time frame?
Retired MTGS Rules Guru
Yeah, that's the place. He's hoping to get more legacy tournaments going. i'm interested in that.
trust me in that burn wipes out uba mask type of decks. true that burn can be hampered by chalice of the void for 1. but honestly any smart burn deck will run lavamancers, goblin fanatics, and shattering spree (spree in side). if they get one of those guys out versus mask it is over. chalice doesnt stop the spree replicated copies (you will have to get the ruling on this one for it in the ruling area).
yes pithing needle can stop deeds. but you are playing against green/black!!! they have freaking therapy, duress, naturalize, and oh yaw... krosan grip!!!
that card is freaking a powerhouse in 1.5. krosan grip and sudden shock. sudden shock alone made psychatog obsolete in 1.5.
but deed can clear everything up. but the deck i was talking about was green/black/white rock that runs deeds, sword of light and shadow, unearth, eternal witness, birds of paradise, braids, vindicate, gerrad's verdict and of course therapy.
that deck is a monster versus a lot of locking decks, because it has an answer for most situations.
Sudden Shock is not the card that makes Psychatog obsolete in Legacy. Psychatog is the card that makes Psychatog obsolete in Legacy.
The deck you are referring to (Rock/w) is terrible. I suppose it has a lot of answers, but it runs a slew of bad cards, so in general, I'm less than concerned.
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AoK, could you please put this one atop a link section in the opening post.
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/13200.html
I suspect that it will fill up with more good articles as the date approaches.