[Deck] Bant

  • #219
    Quote from Kevinliu
    Your list seems really good. I love the interaction between scryb ranger and fauna shaman or scryb ranger with KOTR.

    I haven't tested Llawan in bant sideboards but only in merfolk and landstill sideboards. I'd rather run more path to exile but that's just me. However, it seems your llawans has a ton of merit especially with pithing needles in the sideboard for the merfolk match.


    Ya Scryb works wonders with both of them, which is why I wanted to add KotR to AJ's list. I also love how it saves Arbor from Wasteland Smile

    I could run an extra PtE, as Meddling Mage hasn't really done a lot for me.

    Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.

    NO RUG: Primer
    Tempo Thresh: Primer

    Quote from Tormod
    Modern could never replace Legacy.

    The formats are completely different. Its like saying unicycles will replace airplanes.
  • #220
    Quote from Dyne
    Ya Scryb works wonders with both of them, which is why I wanted to add KotR to AJ's list. I also love how it saves Arbor from Wasteland Smile

    I could run an extra PtE, as Meddling Mage hasn't really done a lot for me.


    Well, actually I would run another clique instead of a path to exile for your build since you seem to want to resolve Natural order more then my build. Not to mention, I also play 4 dazes so it seems that a extra clique would be more beneficial to you then another path against other blue decks, in my opinion.

    I also like to force through more damage with tarmogoyf and KOTR so I like to run extra paths. While you can just resolve a progenitus and just force through damage anyway.
    Last edited by Kevinliu: 3/25/2011 3:33:36 PM
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
  • #221
    Quote from Kevinliu
    Well, actually I would run another clique instead of a path to exile for your build since you seem to want to resolve Natural order more then my build. Not to mention, I also play 4 dazes so it seems that a extra clique would be more beneficial to you then another path against other blue decks, in my opinion.

    I also like to force through more damage with tarmogoyf and KOTR so I like to run extra paths. While you can just resolve a progenitus and just force through damage anyway.


    Haha true enough.

    I'll try the 2nd Clique over the Mage, thanks Smile

    Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.

    NO RUG: Primer
    Tempo Thresh: Primer

    Quote from Tormod
    Modern could never replace Legacy.

    The formats are completely different. Its like saying unicycles will replace airplanes.
  • #222
    I like the list a lot, Dyne. I was also personally thinking of going down to 20 lands for the 4th Goyf since I think the deck can handle it, though my list only has 3 Trops (availability) and an extra fetch, which might be nice for Brainstorming.

    I'm not sure that I support going down to 3 GSZs though. How has this worked for you in testing? GSZ is just so versatile in that it can grab you a land, Hierarch, Goyf, toolbox critter... I guess even proggy if you magically hit 11 mana, lol. Knight, meanwhile, seems like a solid beater/blocker but I'm not sure what he really does for the deck. If he's just a beater, he probably can replace a Goyf instead of a GSZ. But there's no matchup where he truly, truly shines IMO.

    As for the sideboard, something I never understood about AJ's list (and conversely yours and even the one I'm messing with) are the 1-of creatures that aren't green. I think Mage, Clique and Sower should probably just become a 3-of on one of them... the other creature that works well as a 1-of in the SB is Cold-Eyed Selkie. He's great against anything with Islands, and with Exalted triggers can draw you a lot of cards. He also might be good against Merfolk but you've already gotta bring in 3 Llawans and Needles so I'm not sure how well that works.
    Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
    U Merfolk U
    U G W NO Bant U G W
    U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
    Other Legacy Decks I Own:
    R G W Zoo! R G W
    B G W Junk B G W
    R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
    B W Deadguy B W
    W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
    G W Green & Taxes G W
    B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
    EDH Generals/Decks:
    Glissa
    Momir Vig
    Brion Stoutarm
    Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
    Arcum Daggson
  • #223
    There is a bant list that I find to be interesting that got first place in a SCG Invitational in baltimore. I am kinda surprised it doesn't run noble hierarchs to power out an early elspeth/warmonk/Knight of reliquary. Not to mention, I am not sure how good green zenith really is without hieararch but I suppose it works.

    For reference here is the list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37405
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
  • #224
    I'm not liking the vulnerability of the GSZ builds to Perish or Hibernate. I like GSZ but I'm not running it yet. I did a total 180 and put back together Pro Excalibur with more varying creatures. I also don't feel that KoTR is easy to run in the build. This is my Updated version:

    Pro ExcaliburMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Stoneforge Mystic
    2 Coralhelm Commander
    2 Rhox War Monk
    2 Qasali Pridemage
    2 Vendilion Clique
    4 Noble Hierarch
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Trygon Predator
    1 Progenitus

    Artifacts
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Feast and Famine
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    Sorcery
    3 Natural Order

    Instants
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Brainstorm

    Land
    3 Tundra
    3 Tropical Island
    1 Savannah
    3 Misty Rainforest
    1 Windswept Heath
    3 Flodded Strand
    2 Island
    1 Forest
    1 Plains



    I'm also Toying with Vial + standstill: Bantstill

    BantstillMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Noble Hierarch
    2 Knight of the Reliquary
    2 Rhox War Monk
    3 Qasali PrideMage
    2 Vendilion Clique
    3 Coralhelm Commander

    Enchantements
    4 Standstill

    Artifacts
    4 Æther Vial

    Instants
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    Land
    2 Wasteland
    1 Karakas
    3 Tundra
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Flooded Strand
    1 Island
    1 Forest



    Thank you mchief111, great sig

    Current Decks:


    Lvl 37 Planeswalker
    Current:

    Legacy:
    :symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | blue mana Spiral Tide | 0 mana MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | red mana Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | green mana Elf Combo
    Vintage:
    :symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
    Modern:
    :symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
    Standard:
    Wip
    EDH:
    :symb::symu::symw: Zur
  • #225
    So I got blown out against Deedstill the other night a few times while testing.

    Any suggestions as to how to shore up that matchup?

    Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.

    NO RUG: Primer
    Tempo Thresh: Primer

    Quote from Tormod
    Modern could never replace Legacy.

    The formats are completely different. Its like saying unicycles will replace airplanes.
  • #226
    Quote from Dyne
    So I got blown out against Deedstill the other night a few times while testing.

    Any suggestions as to how to shore up that matchup?


    Well, I used to run this tempo-oriented list. It was both good and bad, in that i pretty much had 50/50 against everything except merfolk. I was running it back when Survivine was rampant. I had enough counters to beat combo mainboard, and enough control and overpowering creatures to beat control and aggro mainboard as well. The problem I found with this build, is that I had sometimes trouble drawing into counters when needed, or I had too many useless counters against some matchups. But most of the time it worked great. I'm not saying to change your current build completely, but Stifle has proven itself useful/powerful on many occasions.

    Bant AggroMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Knight of the Reliquary
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    3 Rhox War Monk

    Instants
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    3 Stifle
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    Sorcery
    2 Ponder

    Land
    4 Wasteland
    3 Tundra
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Misty Rainforest
    1 Forest
    1 Island
    1 Plains



    What specifically did you have issues with?


    Thank you mchief111, great sig

    Current Decks:


    Lvl 37 Planeswalker
    Current:

    Legacy:
    :symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | blue mana Spiral Tide | 0 mana MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | red mana Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | green mana Elf Combo
    Vintage:
    :symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
    Modern:
    :symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
    Standard:
    Wip
    EDH:
    :symb::symu::symw: Zur
  • #227
    Quote from aaronc123
    Well, I used to run this tempo-oriented list. It was both good and bad, in that i pretty much had 50/50 against everything except merfolk. I was running it back when Survivine was rampant. I had enough counters to beat combo mainboard, and enough control and overpowering creatures to beat control and aggro mainboard as well. The problem I found with this build, is that I had sometimes trouble drawing into counters when needed, or I had too many useless counters against some matchups. But most of the time it worked great. I'm not saying to change your current build completely, but Stifle has proven itself useful/powerful on many occasions.

    Bant AggroMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Knight of the Reliquary
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    3 Rhox War Monk

    Instants
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    3 Stifle
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    Sorcery
    2 Ponder

    Land
    4 Wasteland
    3 Tundra
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Misty Rainforest
    1 Forest
    1 Island
    1 Plains



    What specifically did you have issues with?


    Standstill mainly.

    I would lead out with Noble Hierarch, then he would either Innocent Blood and leave up Spell Snare, or Ghastly Demise EOT then drop Standstill, and since I was not playing Daze I never had anything against those lines of play.

    Maybe he just got consistently good draws, I dunno.

    Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.

    NO RUG: Primer
    Tempo Thresh: Primer

    Quote from Tormod
    Modern could never replace Legacy.

    The formats are completely different. Its like saying unicycles will replace airplanes.
  • #228
    Clique seems pretty good against Landstill, I mean you can flash it in and take their best card. Perhaps you could also run more hard counters in the board such as counterspell or maybe negate. Or maybe also play elspeth and jace the mindsculptor in the maindeck.

    I mean, I agree with Aaron that both stifle and wasteland can be really good against Ugb Landstill but it isn't always enough to stop them. Back to basics could be also something else you could consider if you also find a way to fit another plains in the main and you also have noble hierarchs to get mana from too. There are more then one way to combat that matchup for Bant.

    Also, if your on the play then dropping Hierarch seems pretty good but if your on the draw then leaving mana open for spell pierce seems better. From experience, Hierarch just seems much stronger on the play then on the draw unless of course Hierarch is the only thing you can play and given the fact that you might also have powerful two drops in your hand as well. *Shrugs* Although, it probably won't matter as nearly as much if you also play daze like you said Dyne.
    Last edited by Kevinliu: 3/29/2011 3:21:23 PM
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
  • #229
    @Dyne

    Oh, I didn't notice you weren't running Daze :D... Honestly, I would go Daze over Pierce Main deck. Daze is your other set of "free" counters. My much preferred play against any deck, Especially if you are on the play, is Trop > Noble; Daze in hand. I also find Daze better so that you can tap out with GSZ and protect it easier. Spell Pierce/FoW is better on the draw, of course, your Turn 0 FoW is the best anyways, especialy against combo/lackeys, etc.

    @Kevin

    Good Points.


    Thank you mchief111, great sig

    Current Decks:


    Lvl 37 Planeswalker
    Current:

    Legacy:
    :symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | blue mana Spiral Tide | 0 mana MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | red mana Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | green mana Elf Combo
    Vintage:
    :symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
    Modern:
    :symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
    Standard:
    Wip
    EDH:
    :symb::symu::symw: Zur
  • #230
    i must agree with kevinliu.

    vendilion clique is card that standstill player don't want to see. He play standstill, you in response play clique. If it's not countered, you are probably going to win this round Wink
    Modern:
    :symg::symb::symw: The Rock
    :symg::symb::symr: Jund
    Legacy:
    :symg::symw: Maverick
    :symu::symw::Control decks
    Commander:
    :symu::symb::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
  • #231
    @Kevin - Ya I would leave it up on the draw, but a lot of the times it was a bluff, bad draws/keeps on my behalf probably.

    However Clique was something I did not side in, so I will be trying that now.

    Edit - @aaron

    I prefer Pierce to Daze for the combo matchups. It just becomes apparent against the mid-range/grinding decks that Daze would be better against them.

    Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.

    NO RUG: Primer
    Tempo Thresh: Primer

    Quote from Tormod
    Modern could never replace Legacy.

    The formats are completely different. Its like saying unicycles will replace airplanes.
  • #233
    @Dyne: Ah I see. What did you side in then? Pithing needle?

    As for the bad draws/keeps that happens to everyone but at least your playing and trying to take a win with what you have.

    Yeah, I am going to have to agree with you on having pierces over daze though mostly because you don't play with wastelands. After testing with my build, I haven't really liked daze a whole lot unless I had a playset of wastes in the main too. To be honest, I would probably run spell snare or even counterspell first because with counterspell you have a noble hierarch that can hold up your second blue source and spell snare is relevant in the landstill matchup. Not to mention, returning a land from play to your hand with daze can prevent you from casting Natural order on the turn you want to cast it.
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
  • #234
    Ya I did side in Needle, which stopped Jace and Deed, but again I fell behind and couldn't do anything about it.

    Oh well, more testing.

    Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.

    NO RUG: Primer
    Tempo Thresh: Primer

    Quote from Tormod
    Modern could never replace Legacy.

    The formats are completely different. Its like saying unicycles will replace airplanes.
  • #235
    I was recommended Bant for MTGO, it being a flexible deck with a control feel to it. And because it can handle randomness.

    The list I was suggested is Drew Levin's Countertop Prog.

    I was thinking of cutting Progenitus, Dryad Arbor, Natural Order, Jace, the Mind Sculptor (at least until he drops a bit), and replacing the Rhox War Monks with Knight of the Relinquary (as knight gets beefy big).

    That leaves me about 7 slots, of which I'm not sure. My current ideas are the Green Zenith, Counterspell, Ponder, Path to Exile, and Spell Pierce.

    MTGO meta is extremely random. You see things like ANT, Team America, Bant of various kinds, Zoo, Merfolk, Lands, Goblins....take your Tier 1 and 2 decks and toss them in a blender.
    Stop by, or leave me a message on IM if you need something or want to chat.

    (Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))

  • #236
    Quote from Cabal_chan
    I was recommended Bant for MTGO, it being a flexible deck with a control feel to it. And because it can handle randomness.

    The list I was suggested is Drew Levin's Countertop Prog.

    I was thinking of cutting Progenitus, Dryad Arbor, Natural Order, Jace, the Mind Sculptor (at least until he drops a bit), and replacing the Rhox War Monks with Knight of the Relinquary (as knight gets beefy big).

    That leaves me about 7 slots, of which I'm not sure. My current ideas are the Green Zenith, Counterspell, Ponder, Path to Exile, and Spell Pierce.

    MTGO meta is extremely random. You see things like ANT, Team America, Bant of various kinds, Zoo, Merfolk, Lands, Goblins....take your Tier 1 and 2 decks and toss them in a blender.


    Personally I wouldn't play CB varients right now, but that's just me.

    Ponder would be a good addition. Alas, again, if your going CB, I would run the Jace sadly.

    Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.

    NO RUG: Primer
    Tempo Thresh: Primer

    Quote from Tormod
    Modern could never replace Legacy.

    The formats are completely different. Its like saying unicycles will replace airplanes.
  • #237
    Quote from Dyne
    Personally I wouldn't play CB varients right now, but that's just me.

    Ponder would be a good addition. Alas, again, if your going CB, I would run the Jace sadly.


    You wouldn't? Why?

    Or is CB not advisable for a random meta?
    Stop by, or leave me a message on IM if you need something or want to chat.

    (Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))

  • #238
    Cabal_Chan, Based off on the cards you mentioned adding in maybe you could go something like this?

    Kevinliu's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Tropical Island
    1 Forest
    3 Tundra

    Creatures
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    2 Qasali Pridemage
    4 Tarmogoyf

    Spells
    4 Path to Exile
    4 Ponder
    3 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Counterbalance
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Brainstorm



    I personally think people underrate countertop right now because of how skill intensive the deck can be. But in a random meta I would think countertop could shore up alot of matchups since it provides that "soft lock" but that's just based on my experience.
    Last edited by Kevinliu: 4/1/2011 1:13:57 PM
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
  • #239
    Quote from Kevinliu
    Cabal_Chan, Based off on the cards you mentioned adding in maybe you could go something like this?

    Dyne's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Tropical Island
    1 Forest
    3 Tundra

    Creatures
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    2 Qasali Pridemage
    4 Tarmogoyf

    Spells
    4 Path to Exile
    4 Ponder
    3 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Counterbalance
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Brainstorm



    I personally think people underrate countertop right now because of how skill intensive the deck can be. But in a random meta I would think countertop could shore up alot of matchups since it provides that "soft lock" but that's just based on my experience.


    It only provides the soft lock when your playing in a developed meta, because you can build your deck to tailor to it.

    In a random meta, I would play a more aggro/control build and ditch the CB strategy.

    Also, I advise Vendilion Clique on the list above.

    Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.

    NO RUG: Primer
    Tempo Thresh: Primer

    Quote from Tormod
    Modern could never replace Legacy.

    The formats are completely different. Its like saying unicycles will replace airplanes.
  • #241
    Quote from Dyne
    It only provides the soft lock when your playing in a developed meta, because you can build your deck to tailor to it.

    In a random meta, I would play a more aggro/control build and ditch the CB strategy.

    Also, I advise Vendilion Clique on the list above.


    Eh, it depends, there are alot of decks that have a mana curve from 1-3 so that's where CB truely shines. Still, countertop is quite skill intensive to play properly and so that's why alot of players shy away from it but the better players will always resort back to countertop at some point. Also, clique isn't very good in a metagame full of aggro decks like zoo and goblins. Clique is much better against blue based decks.
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
  • #242
    Quote from Kevinliu
    Eh, it depends, there are alot of decks that have a mana curve from 1-3 so that's where CB truely shines. Still, countertop is quite skill intensive to play properly and so that's why alot of players shy away from it but the better players will always resort to countertop at some point. Also, clique isn't very good in a metagame full of aggro decks like zoo and goblins. Clique is much better against blue based decks.


    This is very true.

    Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.

    NO RUG: Primer
    Tempo Thresh: Primer

    Quote from Tormod
    Modern could never replace Legacy.

    The formats are completely different. Its like saying unicycles will replace airplanes.
  • #243
    But it's understandable to cut the CB plan if your focusing more on the short game compared to the long one. I personally would play countertop in a random meta since I am more accustomed to playing blue based aggro-control with countertop then without it(Unless it's merfolks). I feel being quite comfortable with a certain list goes a long way in being successful in tournaments.
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
  • #244
    Quote from Kevinliu
    Cabal_Chan, Based off on the cards you mentioned adding in maybe you could go something like this?

    Korsakovia's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Tropical Island
    1 Forest
    3 Tundra

    Creatures
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    2 Qasali Pridemage
    4 Tarmogoyf

    Spells
    4 Path to Exile
    4 Ponder
    3 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Counterbalance
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Brainstorm



    I personally think people underrate countertop right now because of how skill intensive the deck can be. But in a random meta I would think countertop could shore up alot of matchups since it provides that "soft lock" but that's just based on my experience.


    Is it alright to cut the Noble Hierarchs?
    Stop by, or leave me a message on IM if you need something or want to chat.

    (Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))

  • #245
    Quote from Cabal_chan
    Is it alright to cut the Noble Hierarchs?


    I personally wouldn't, I thought I had them in there. Anyway, I would probably cut a 1 path, 1 ponder, and 2 pridemages for 4 noble hierarchs. 18 blue cards for force of will seems plenty anyway. You could also cut a knight but I think playing 4 KOTR is correct.
    Last edited by Kevinliu: 4/1/2011 4:34:30 PM
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
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