stifle and wasteland is a must.... though you are heavy color. wastelands will save you from combo's such as doomsday + emmy and zoo. i say, -2 fetch -1 STP + 3 wasteland.
also, stoneforge mystic is 2cc (ww) and you only have 1 basic land each color. i say up the basic landcount. trust me... you gonna need basic lands more than your tundra or tropical island. (just based on your meta.)
eer
I don't see wasteland in bant agrro, seriously, and without wasteland, I don't like Stifle. If I would be playing tempo, I'd be playing CanThresh or New Horizons.
Seriously, I don't know where you play or if you play bant at all, but cutting STP and Goyf seems completely foolish. Greaves is a personnal choice since its good with super evasive Selkie, but seriously.. -goyf, -stp? wtf
I'd board out one of the Selkie's for SoLaS, so you can search for almost any protection. Other than that, seems fine ^^
I'm thinking about it too, its just that I've playtested against 4c Ctop a lot (I had hard time against my 2 friends lately, with intuitionvine, zoo and canthresh) and Selkie is sooooooooo good in this mu. The weird greaves helped too lol I may get greaves in the sideboard and SoLS MB. I'm looking at Feast and Famine a lot lately but didn't played it yet. Anyone played it? On paper, it seems awesome
Wasteland is key... in any deck. 3 of in bant aggro is a must.
Selkie may be good against 1 Matchup... and that means it belongs in the board.
I would like to see someone else comment on the NO combo out of the board for one of those (WTF) moments in game 2.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Never tell me the odds"
Legacy: GRB Belcher UUB Merfolk RRR Burn GWU Bant Walker RB Goblins
eer
I don't see wasteland in bant agrro, seriously, and without wasteland, I don't like Stifle. If I would be playing tempo, I'd be playing CanThresh or New Horizons.
Seriously, I don't know where you play or if you play bant at all, but cutting STP and Goyf seems completely foolish. Greaves is a personnal choice since its good with super evasive Selkie, but seriously.. -goyf, -stp? wtf
why cut STP and Goyf... let me justify what i said.
Stifle is a key, its a counter measure against opposing wasteland and fetches, part of you being a "control" agro deck. you got 3 colors. most of your land is duals.
wasteland, as stated above, is a key. part of your deck being a control. part of it is aggro, you need to slow down your opponent enough for you to swing and swing for the win. 3 goyfs is enough.
just IMO though. goodluck on your (wtf) deck building.
A team should be as happy as a meal - TEAM HAPPYMEAL
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
just IMO though. goodluck on your (wtf) deck building.
Don't need it; I have proof it works because it led to a GP day 2.
The NO combo is pretty much a gold fishing combo.
you get it, resolve it, stick it... its a win in the vast majority of situations.
the fact of the matter though, in tournament play, is that there is a big field. having a deck that is good versus the vast majority and then focused in on the match up at hand post sideboard is the reason we play 75 card lists.... (and have the ability to)... to prevent this format from becoming rock paper scissors and turning it into the best player wins is what the DCI and Wizards is about (bannings etc...)
placing the NO combo in the deck post board is what helps us focus the deck; take out the irrelevant parts and get down to brass tacks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Never tell me the odds"
Legacy: GRB Belcher UUB Merfolk RRR Burn GWU Bant Walker RB Goblins
GOD
don't argue with stuff like 'I prove it by making day 2 at a tourny',(I mean a friend o'mine won a 40 players-tournement with merfolks featuring 4 Storm Crows as a challenge without siding them out at all, everything is possible)
Its a CARD GAME and you're playing a variation of a pretty standard list over the last year or 2. Playing Stifle/Waste package does change the deck, but don't start and says its mandatory in the archetype; it never was! I mean, stifle and wasteland ARE good cards, playing them won't be BAD, it will simply not be optimal with your gameplan. I mean, you even ditch countertop/package (which I don't like myself either), but hell, its DAMN good, and it proved itself.
By 'proved' itself, I don't talk about me playing a couple tournements, I talk about the vast majority of top-8 lists during last year.
I mean, just scroll this and see about 95% of list don't run stifle/waste, and a good % (I'd say over 60%) pack up the c-top.
Usually, playing 3-4 wasteland in a 17-18 lands deck playing 3 color is pretty hard, especially if you want to run basics. And please admit cutting Goyfs is just plain foolish, as is (a bit meta-called though) StPs. I mean I could build a 5 forest elf deck and be like: OMG ITS SOO GOOOD LOLOL WE DON'T NEED LANDS, but complain each game I'm mana screwed..
I've found that if you're running a wasteland/stifle package, it makes the deck too reactive, which means you're usually on the back foot, holding removal mana when you wish you were playing a creature. Also, I found running 2 wastelands was making a pretty big difference in a 20 land build, but if you're learning more towards 21-22 land, I think wasteland s could easily come into it without screwing up your day.
in which case, I'll tend to a New Horizon-like build more than a bant aggro, control, or probant.
well, yeah, cutting goyfs is just foolish, its why i said in my opinion. and maybe because i dont run goyfs because its just way too expensive, and i dont have it at hand this time.
i run my bant with 22 lands and it works too... for the META i play.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A team should be as happy as a meal - TEAM HAPPYMEAL
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
i played a midrange bant deck over the weekend at the 5k with lotus cobra and green sun's zenith and loved it!! lotus cobra allows daze to accelerate you and enables nut draws with noble hierarch. natural order is definitely very powerful and i recommend it, but i preferred jace/elspeth over the weekend. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=36847
id also suggest a 4th lotus cobra in the main over a warmonk or daze.
GL!
I'm adopting Æther Vial into my build. That card can give you crazy tempo. I'm still not a believer if planeswalkers in an aggro heavy build.
And yes I run 19 lands, 4 of them being wasteland. However I run 2-3 KoTR in my build, I think that enables you to run wasteland without losing synergy.
I will post my updated Excalibur build with vials, later today.
Card Choices:
Coralhelm commander: Gives you the ability to side step Perish a little. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire (Merfolk) as well.
Trygon Predator: Eats needles, enemy Vials, Counterbalance etc. All day, only anything relevant in Legacy.
Vials Should improve the Control matchup.
SideBoard 5 slots for anti-merfolk/gobs; (volcanics/firespout) 3 slots for GY hate; (crypts) 3 slots for anti-combo; belcher/storm/painter (stifle) 4 slots for Alt. Win Con; N.O. Pro
Card Choices:
Coralhelm commander: Gives you the ability to side step Perish a little. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire (Merfolk) as well.
Trygon Predator: Eats needles, enemy Vials, Counterbalance etc. All day, only anything relevant in Legacy.
Vials Should improve the Control matchup.
SideBoard 5 slots for anti-merfolk/gobs; (volcanics/firespout) 3 slots for GY hate; (crypts) 3 slots for anti-combo; belcher/storm/painter (stifle) 4 slots for Alt. Win Con; N.O. Pro
I really like this list Aaron. It seems really good. Although, I'd opt to run 4 coralhelm commanders, as a 2 drop that can grow into a 4/4 flyer is pretty insane.
I really like this list Aaron. It seems really good. Although, I'd opt to run 4 coralhelm commanders, as a 2 drop that can grow into a 4/4 flyer is pretty insane.
Good Point, I'll Probably drop a KoTR or a war monk and run at least 3 Coralhelm.
With combo waning off for now, I feel like Main deck Forces and Side board Stifle are sufficient enough to deal with most well-thought out combo decks. I feel like this can handle stronger Aggro and Control metas. I have always felt merfolk was my worst matchup, especially when they board in perish. Vials get around standtill/counter, The best non-green creature for a deck of this calibur is Coralhelm. If you get 2 in play, they are each 5/5 flying after levels lol. I feel like these cards alone strengthen the deck overall. Like i said, maybe more susceptible to combo, but combo was never one of the glaring problems of this deck, Goblins was 50/50, and Merfolk/Stax can give me headaches (i feel like vial can help vs. Stax as well.)
Good Point, I'll Probably drop a KoTR or a war monk and run at least 3 Coralhelm.
With combo waning off for now, I feel like Main deck Forces and Side board Stifle are sufficient enough to deal with most well-thought out combo decks. I feel like this can handle stronger Aggro and Control metas. I have always felt merfolk was my worst matchup, especially when they board in perish. Vials get around standtill/counter, The best non-green creature for a deck of this calibur is Coralhelm. If you get 2 in play, they are each 5/5 flying after levels lol. I feel like these cards alone strengthen the deck overall. Like i said, maybe more susceptible to combo, but combo was never one of the glaring problems of this deck, Goblins was 50/50, and Merfolk/Stax can give me headaches (i feel like vial can help vs. Stax as well.)
Stupid Islandwalk lol
I don't think merfolks is really that bad is it? I mean, you can pretty much win the matchup by vialing in a stoneforge mystic as oppose to casting it while postboard you also have firespouts. Exalted triggers can also play a significant role with Rhox war monk being the lone attacker so I'd probably would cut a KOTR before another rhox.
With that being said, I am thinking about playing your Vial Bant list next week in the magic-league legacy trial so I can provide some feedback.
I don't think merfolks is really that bad is it? I mean, you can pretty much win the matchup by vialing in a stoneforge mystic as oppose to casting it while postboard you also have firespouts. Exalted triggers can also play a significant role with Rhox war monk being the lone attacker so I'd probably would cut a KOTR before another rhox.
With that being said, I am thinking about playing your Vial Bant list next week in the magic-league legacy trial so I can provide some feedback.
Well, I havn't run the Vials against Merfolks yet. But I think it will help.
Well, I havn't run the Vials against Merfolks yet. But I think it will help.
Yeah, they probably will help.
Well, don't be too surprised if you see more people playing with your list in the magic-league legacy trials after I top 2'd next week. Well, hopefully anyway.
Hey everyone. I'm not a Bant player but the decks I have been collecting cards in the past few months and I noticed a lot of them fit the Bant archetype. Essentially, I missing some of the bigger money cards (lands, FoW and Goyf) and I am wondering where a good place to start is. I would like to use the NO-Prog and CounterTop packages since I have both. Can anyone suggest me a good starting place? I read the OP but it seemed a little outdated. I would like to try to take a dip into the deck on paper.
Hey everyone. I'm not a Bant player but the decks I have been collecting cards in the past few months and I noticed a lot of them fit the Bant archetype. Essentially, I missing some of the bigger money cards (lands, FoW and Goyf) and I am wondering where a good place to start is. I would like to use the NO-Prog and CounterTop packages since I have both. Can anyone suggest me a good starting place? I read the OP but it seemed a little outdated. I would like to try to take a dip into the deck on paper.
Well, I don't use CBTop in my version, but if i did, I would start with this as a core:
FLEX SLOTS - You can build it anyway you want, but I would highly suggest the above "core". I will cover what else that could/should be in those sots.
Some people like 3 Counter Balance and 3 Tops; 3 CB 4 Tops; 4 Tops and 3 CB. My preference is 4 and 4 so that you have the best shot of getting it online by Turn 2.
Additional Counters
Some like Daze, some like Spell Pierce, some like Counterspell, and some like Spell Snare to run alongside FoW. My preference in CBtoP build would probably be 5 additional counterspells in some kind of combination, like 2 Daze and 3 Counterspell for instance. Many people feel that daze is a dead card Mid Game and treat it as a quasi-Force of Will, therefore having 6 "Free" CounterSpells and 3 Hard Counterspells. Other people feel like Daze is uselss if you don't have it early enough so they prefer 3-4 and later draws are used as FoW Fodder.
Cantrips Brainstorm is too good with CBTop not to be in the core, but you can add more Cantrips in the form of Ponder and [c]Preordain[c/]... 4-8 Cantrips is good. My preference is 6. 4 Brainstorm 2 Ponder.
Equipment Package
You can put this in the deck or not. I prefer the following package... but again I'm more aggro Based.
I would run at least those equips, and some other swords are boardable.
Additional "Flex Slots" Spells
Here are good cards to run:
2-3 Firespout - improve matchups against Zoo, Folk, Gobs, CBTop is controlly so a mainboard sweeper with minimal effects to you are good. I reccomend this card.
1-2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant - 2nd best planeswalker in Bant decks only to JTMS, possible 4 Win con and/or assist Goyfs getting over enemy Moats
1-4 Green Sun's Zenith I havn't tested this card in a Control Build, so I'm not Sure. Though you could cut down on the # of Goyfs to run other Utility Creatures (See Below.)
3-4 Stifle - This is always a solid choice: Stops Storm, Fetchlands, Belcher wins, just straight up utility
4 Æther Vial - Less relevant in a control build, but good if you go heavy aggro.
4 Standstill - Pretty good in a deck after you get JTMS or Elspeth online.
Mirran Crusader and Coralhelm Commander - as of lately Perish is certainly a threat to your goyfs, so these are probably some of the best Non-Green Creatures for a Bant "aggro Package"... but again CBTop is more control, so these options is may be irrelavant.
2-3 Knight of the Reliquary - He can be your other undercosted enourmous Beater for the deck. Also allows you to run a Micro Land Utility package in your 75, consisting 1 ofs of: Mana Fixing, Bojuka Bog, Mistveil Plains (works great with green sun and fetchable), less Wasteland, Karakas, etc. However, he is vulnerable to Perish as well, but CBTop build is probably highly resistant to Perish.
IMHO, If i Built the said deck I would Use that core I posted above, and this would be my Flex Slots:
SB in the 8 counters plus Clique against combo. SB in Teeg if he shuts down the combo, else out (since he disrupts FoW).
How is the interaction working between running equipment and running Kira? Wouldn't that prevent you from equipping your creatures at a reasonable cost? At the same time it also opens up a window for your opponent to use their removal. It may sound a bit picky but I could see that being a problem
How is the interaction working between running equipment and running Kira? Wouldn't that prevent you from equipping your creatures at a reasonable cost? At the same time it also opens up a window for your opponent to use their removal. It may sound a bit picky but I could see that being a problem
To be honest as a 1-of she doesn't come into the picture that often so I don't have many data points. Usually, though, you will draw an equipment or stoneforged b4 drawing her. In that case, the solution is simple - attach the equipment before playing her, since I find that (esp with SoLS) your equipped creature rarely dies.
I think she's pretty solid as a 1-of, although a second Vendilion Clique or Trygon Predator would also be a solid choice.
So right now I'm running AJ Sacher's latest top 10 NO Bant list, which does not run Jace.
Does this deck NEED to run him? I haven't really been in a position where I would want him, and I would have NO (pun intended) idea what to cut for him.
I'm building that deck as well, and I don't think you need, or even want, Jace. For one, AJ has put a lot of work into the deck, so for all of the big decisions I'm basically deferring to his judgment. (On small stuff, not so much though, as I really want the 4 Goyfs in their and Trygon Pred as a 1-of in the main or side).
Jace doesn't help against Aggro, especially without CounterTop to stabilize. The deck doesn't really want to stabilize, it just wants to beat face. And Jace doesn't help against Combo, obviously. That leaves Control, where he's another 4 cmc card that we need to stick with countermagic backup. I'd much rather do that with NO, since they are much more likely to be able to stick their own Jace to kill ours than to stick their own Proggie in two turns before they're dead. Admittedly he might be nice in the control MU just to give us more spells that they must counter, but I think overall he's not really worth the spot. The deck already has a lot for control to deal with. I mean, that list is tight. I would have no idea what to cut for a card like Jace.
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():
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
I'm building that deck as well, and I don't think you need, or even want, Jace. For one, AJ has put a lot of work into the deck, so for all of the big decisions I'm basically deferring to his judgment. (On small stuff, not so much though, as I really want the 4 Goyfs in their and Trygon Pred as a 1-of in the main or side).
Jace doesn't help against Aggro, especially without CounterTop to stabilize. The deck doesn't really want to stabilize, it just wants to beat face. And Jace doesn't help against Combo, obviously. That leaves Control, where he's another 4 cmc card that we need to stick with countermagic backup. I'd much rather do that with NO, since they are much more likely to be able to stick their own Jace to kill ours than to stick their own Proggie in two turns before they're dead. Admittedly he might be nice in the control MU just to give us more spells that they must counter, but I think overall he's not really worth the spot. The deck already has a lot for control to deal with. I mean, that list is tight. I would have no idea what to cut for a card like Jace.
Ya, I agree on the Trygon, I've already cut a Clique to add one to the SB.
eer
I don't see wasteland in bant agrro, seriously, and without wasteland, I don't like Stifle. If I would be playing tempo, I'd be playing CanThresh or New Horizons.
Seriously, I don't know where you play or if you play bant at all, but cutting STP and Goyf seems completely foolish. Greaves is a personnal choice since its good with super evasive Selkie, but seriously.. -goyf, -stp? wtf
I'm thinking about it too, its just that I've playtested against 4c Ctop a lot (I had hard time against my 2 friends lately, with intuitionvine, zoo and canthresh) and Selkie is sooooooooo good in this mu. The weird greaves helped too lol I may get greaves in the sideboard and SoLS MB. I'm looking at Feast and Famine a lot lately but didn't played it yet. Anyone played it? On paper, it seems awesome
Selkie may be good against 1 Matchup... and that means it belongs in the board.
I would like to see someone else comment on the NO combo out of the board for one of those (WTF) moments in game 2.
Legacy:
GRB Belcher
UUB Merfolk
RRR Burn
GWU Bant Walker
RB Goblins
why cut STP and Goyf... let me justify what i said.
Stifle is a key, its a counter measure against opposing wasteland and fetches, part of you being a "control" agro deck. you got 3 colors. most of your land is duals.
wasteland, as stated above, is a key. part of your deck being a control. part of it is aggro, you need to slow down your opponent enough for you to swing and swing for the win. 3 goyfs is enough.
just IMO though. goodluck on your (wtf) deck building.
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
Don't need it; I have proof it works because it led to a GP day 2.
The NO combo is pretty much a gold fishing combo.
you get it, resolve it, stick it... its a win in the vast majority of situations.
the fact of the matter though, in tournament play, is that there is a big field. having a deck that is good versus the vast majority and then focused in on the match up at hand post sideboard is the reason we play 75 card lists.... (and have the ability to)... to prevent this format from becoming rock paper scissors and turning it into the best player wins is what the DCI and Wizards is about (bannings etc...)
placing the NO combo in the deck post board is what helps us focus the deck; take out the irrelevant parts and get down to brass tacks.
Legacy:
GRB Belcher
UUB Merfolk
RRR Burn
GWU Bant Walker
RB Goblins
don't argue with stuff like 'I prove it by making day 2 at a tourny',(I mean a friend o'mine won a 40 players-tournement with merfolks featuring 4 Storm Crows as a challenge without siding them out at all, everything is possible)
Its a CARD GAME and you're playing a variation of a pretty standard list over the last year or 2. Playing Stifle/Waste package does change the deck, but don't start and says its mandatory in the archetype; it never was! I mean, stifle and wasteland ARE good cards, playing them won't be BAD, it will simply not be optimal with your gameplan. I mean, you even ditch countertop/package (which I don't like myself either), but hell, its DAMN good, and it proved itself.
By 'proved' itself, I don't talk about me playing a couple tournements, I talk about the vast majority of top-8 lists during last year.
I mean, just scroll this and see about 95% of list don't run stifle/waste, and a good % (I'd say over 60%) pack up the c-top.
Usually, playing 3-4 wasteland in a 17-18 lands deck playing 3 color is pretty hard, especially if you want to run basics. And please admit cutting Goyfs is just plain foolish, as is (a bit meta-called though) StPs. I mean I could build a 5 forest elf deck and be like: OMG ITS SOO GOOOD LOLOL WE DON'T NEED LANDS, but complain each game I'm mana screwed..
in which case, I'll tend to a New Horizon-like build more than a bant aggro, control, or probant.
i run my bant with 22 lands and it works too... for the META i play.
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=36847
id also suggest a 4th lotus cobra in the main over a warmonk or daze.
GL!
And yes I run 19 lands, 4 of them being wasteland. However I run 2-3 KoTR in my build, I think that enables you to run wasteland without losing synergy.
I will post my updated Excalibur build with vials, later today.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Rhox War Monk
2 Coralhelm Commander
2 Trygon Predator
2 Qasali Pridemage
Artifacts
4 Æther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
Land
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
4 Wasteland
2 Volcanic Island
3 Firespout
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Stifle
3 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
Card Choices:
Coralhelm commander: Gives you the ability to side step Perish a little. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire (Merfolk) as well.
Trygon Predator: Eats needles, enemy Vials, Counterbalance etc. All day, only anything relevant in Legacy.
Vials Should improve the Control matchup.
SideBoard
5 slots for anti-merfolk/gobs; (volcanics/firespout)
3 slots for GY hate; (crypts)
3 slots for anti-combo; belcher/storm/painter (stifle)
4 slots for Alt. Win Con; N.O. Pro
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
I really like this list Aaron. It seems really good. Although, I'd opt to run 4 coralhelm commanders, as a 2 drop that can grow into a 4/4 flyer is pretty insane.
Good Point, I'll Probably drop a KoTR or a war monk and run at least 3 Coralhelm.
With combo waning off for now, I feel like Main deck Forces and Side board Stifle are sufficient enough to deal with most well-thought out combo decks. I feel like this can handle stronger Aggro and Control metas. I have always felt merfolk was my worst matchup, especially when they board in perish. Vials get around standtill/counter, The best non-green creature for a deck of this calibur is Coralhelm. If you get 2 in play, they are each 5/5 flying after levels lol. I feel like these cards alone strengthen the deck overall. Like i said, maybe more susceptible to combo, but combo was never one of the glaring problems of this deck, Goblins was 50/50, and Merfolk/Stax can give me headaches (i feel like vial can help vs. Stax as well.)
Stupid Islandwalk lol
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
I don't think merfolks is really that bad is it? I mean, you can pretty much win the matchup by vialing in a stoneforge mystic as oppose to casting it while postboard you also have firespouts. Exalted triggers can also play a significant role with Rhox war monk being the lone attacker so I'd probably would cut a KOTR before another rhox.
With that being said, I am thinking about playing your Vial Bant list next week in the magic-league legacy trial so I can provide some feedback.
Well, I havn't run the Vials against Merfolks yet. But I think it will help.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Yeah, they probably will help.
Well, don't be too surprised if you see more people playing with your list in the magic-league legacy trials after I top 2'd next week. Well, hopefully anyway.
Well, I don't use CBTop in my version, but if i did, I would start with this as a core:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Progenitus
Sorcery
3 Natural Order
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
Planeswalkers
3 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
4 Counterbalance
Artifacts
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands
1 Dryad Arbor
18 Other Lands
FLEX SLOTS - You can build it anyway you want, but I would highly suggest the above "core". I will cover what else that could/should be in those sots.
Some people like 3 Counter Balance and 3 Tops; 3 CB 4 Tops; 4 Tops and 3 CB. My preference is 4 and 4 so that you have the best shot of getting it online by Turn 2.
Additional Counters
Some like Daze, some like Spell Pierce, some like Counterspell, and some like Spell Snare to run alongside FoW. My preference in CBtoP build would probably be 5 additional counterspells in some kind of combination, like 2 Daze and 3 Counterspell for instance. Many people feel that daze is a dead card Mid Game and treat it as a quasi-Force of Will, therefore having 6 "Free" CounterSpells and 3 Hard Counterspells. Other people feel like Daze is uselss if you don't have it early enough so they prefer 3-4 and later draws are used as FoW Fodder.
Cantrips
Brainstorm is too good with CBTop not to be in the core, but you can add more Cantrips in the form of Ponder and [c]Preordain[c/]... 4-8 Cantrips is good. My preference is 6. 4 Brainstorm 2 Ponder.
Equipment Package
You can put this in the deck or not. I prefer the following package... but again I'm more aggro Based.
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
I would run at least those equips, and some other swords are boardable.
Additional "Flex Slots" Spells
Here are good cards to run:
2-3 Firespout - improve matchups against Zoo, Folk, Gobs, CBTop is controlly so a mainboard sweeper with minimal effects to you are good. I reccomend this card.
1-2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant - 2nd best planeswalker in Bant decks only to JTMS, possible 4 Win con and/or assist Goyfs getting over enemy Moats
1-4 Green Sun's Zenith I havn't tested this card in a Control Build, so I'm not Sure. Though you could cut down on the # of Goyfs to run other Utility Creatures (See Below.)
3-4 Stifle - This is always a solid choice: Stops Storm, Fetchlands, Belcher wins, just straight up utility
4 Æther Vial - Less relevant in a control build, but good if you go heavy aggro.
4 Standstill - Pretty good in a deck after you get JTMS or Elspeth online.
Additional "Flex Slot" Creatures
2-3 TTrygon Predator - Eats enemy Æther Vials
2-3 Qasali Pridemage - very good, extra exalted is nice.
Mirran Crusader and Coralhelm Commander - as of lately Perish is certainly a threat to your goyfs, so these are probably some of the best Non-Green Creatures for a Bant "aggro Package"... but again CBTop is more control, so these options is may be irrelavant.
2-3 Knight of the Reliquary - He can be your other undercosted enourmous Beater for the deck. Also allows you to run a Micro Land Utility package in your 75, consisting 1 ofs of: Mana Fixing, Bojuka Bog, Mistveil Plains (works great with green sun and fetchable), less Wasteland, Karakas, etc. However, he is vulnerable to Perish as well, but CBTop build is probably highly resistant to Perish.
IMHO, If i Built the said deck I would Use that core I posted above, and this would be my Flex Slots:
2 Trygon Predator
2 Knight of the Reliquary
note: if you run firespout you need to run Volcanic Island (at least 2,; and especially if you run Daze).
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
1 Island
4 Tundra
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Cursecatcher
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Trygon Predator
4 Rhox War Monk
1 Rafiq of the Many
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Cursecatcher
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Trygon Predator
2 Path to Exile
1 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
SB in the 8 counters plus Clique against combo. SB in Teeg if he shuts down the combo, else out (since he disrupts FoW).
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
How is the interaction working between running equipment and running Kira? Wouldn't that prevent you from equipping your creatures at a reasonable cost? At the same time it also opens up a window for your opponent to use their removal. It may sound a bit picky but I could see that being a problem
To be honest as a 1-of she doesn't come into the picture that often so I don't have many data points. Usually, though, you will draw an equipment or stoneforged b4 drawing her. In that case, the solution is simple - attach the equipment before playing her, since I find that (esp with SoLS) your equipped creature rarely dies.
I think she's pretty solid as a 1-of, although a second Vendilion Clique or Trygon Predator would also be a solid choice.
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
Does this deck NEED to run him? I haven't really been in a position where I would want him, and I would have NO (pun intended) idea what to cut for him.
Suggestions?
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Jace doesn't help against Aggro, especially without CounterTop to stabilize. The deck doesn't really want to stabilize, it just wants to beat face. And Jace doesn't help against Combo, obviously. That leaves Control, where he's another 4 cmc card that we need to stick with countermagic backup. I'd much rather do that with NO, since they are much more likely to be able to stick their own Jace to kill ours than to stick their own Proggie in two turns before they're dead. Admittedly he might be nice in the control MU just to give us more spells that they must counter, but I think overall he's not really worth the spot. The deck already has a lot for control to deal with. I mean, that list is tight. I would have no idea what to cut for a card like Jace.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
Ya, I agree on the Trygon, I've already cut a Clique to add one to the SB.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
I'm am going to use this build tomorrow:
3 Coralhelm Commander
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Trygon Predator
2 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Rhox War Monk
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Noble Hierarch
Artifacts
4 Æther Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowhsares
Land
1 Wasteland
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Firespout
2 Volcanic Island
2 Spell Snare
2 Krosan Grip
1 Trygon Predator
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Daze
I'm not fond of a bunch of 1-ofs without GSZ or Survival.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Really, I love the tool box, it gives you so many options.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer