The best way to beat Landstill with Bant aggro-contol is to board in gaddock teeg and protect it from spot removal with both counterbalance and sensei's diving top. Of course, I find spell pierce to be also effective against Landstill and the rest of the format for that matter. Although, the landstill variants with deed can be much tougher to fight against because deed can get by gaddock teeg and counterbalance. In this case, it might not be a bad idea to play counterspell and spell snare(counter standstill) in the maindeck in the place of daze.
When countertop and landstill were the best decks in the format I actually would also play fact or fiction in my countertop build. As any form of card draw can serve you well against pure control. It's just too bad those days are gone.
I have almost encountered no problems with FOW support, I will test the changes you suggest.
Its great to hear. though having only 10 other Blue cards to pitch to FoW really scares me. I haven't tested with Blue count that low. Though if I were to run your list, I would probably cut some PtE for more Blue cards. Rhox Warmonk maybe as suggested by aaronc123.
I really like MD Jace, it keeps me from not running out of was and it can be pitched to FOW early in the game. My list is more agro oriented so many people don't see it coming and it can be game breaking.
I also think Jace is really good. But maybe in a more control version than aggro. I haven't tested JTMS extensively in aggro builds though, so don't put much weight on that.
Is 4 daze too much? It just an awful topdeck, should I lower the daze count to 3?
I think 4 is ok. With my deck, I feel I need to have protection early that is why I keep 4. When the game goes on and it seems dead top deck, I should have top going and daze would be a 2cc flip for counterbalance, and also it still pitches to FoW.
Your deck seems quite different though. How are those wastelands for you?
Could you guys give some advice on how to play against merfolk and landstill. I seem to just loose against these decks.
I have only played a few games vs these decks, but it seem there are a lot of these in our meta. And when I ran into one, it was an autoloss.
Both jace and spell pierce can be pretty awesome against the likes of landstill and you just win games against merfolks with stoneforge --> sword of fire and ice and/or jitte. Keep in mind that it's not the only or ultimate sideboard for a landstill + merfolk metagame, it's just for to give you some ideas.
@Kevinliu
Thanks for the advice. The trygons, though, came in for goyfs(for testing) which i will be putting back in to see the difference. Though the MD warmonks are not bad at all.
I'll try the SB you suggested, though I would tweak it a bit to include some GY hate.
Many thanks!
@Kevinliu
Thanks for the advice. The trygons, though, came in for goyfs(for testing) which i will be putting back in to see the difference. Though the MD warmonks are not bad at all.
I'll try the SB you suggested, though I would tweak it a bit to include some GY hate.
Many thanks!
Ah, that makes alot more sense I didn't really realize that you didn't have a set of goyfs in there until now. I thought you did to be honest. Alright, trygon doesn't seem that bad of an option if you lack goyfs.
As for including grave yard hate in the board I suppose you could cut a pierce and a path for 2 relics or crypts. Let me know how your testing goes.
I just had a minor change of heart. At the last minute I decided to rip out my equipment package and NO/Prog package. I know this sounds crazy, but since i know Pro Excalibur is consistent, I want to try my hand at a more Aggro-Control version of the deck. I'm experimenting to see which version is stronger in my aggro-esque Meta. If it fails me(don't care much about rating) I'll resurrect Pro Excalibur.
Here is my new list, at least temporarily. I'll use it tonight, and post my results in the morning.
I found this list on deckcheck and it looks promising. It is a Heavy Counter Version. Since it curves out at 3 instead of 4, I see that wasteland/Knight shouldn't be a problem. However, I have a couple of debates going on in my head at the moment. Thinking about:
MD
-1 Ponder
+1 Path to Exile
I just had a minor change of heart. At the last minute I decided to rip out my equipment package and NO/Prog package. I know this sounds crazy, but since i know Pro Excalibur is consistent, I want to try my hand at a more Aggro-Control version of the deck. I'm experimenting to see which version is stronger in my aggro-esque Meta. If it fails me(don't care much about rating) I'll resurrect Pro Excalibur.
Here is my new list, at least temporarily. I'll use it tonight, and post my results in the morning.
I found this list on deckcheck and it looks promising. It is a Heavy Counter Version. Since it curves out at 3 instead of 4, I see that wasteland/Knight shouldn't be a problem. However, I have a couple of debates going on in my head at the moment. Thinking about:
MD
-1 Ponder
+1 Path to Exile
I'm probably going to do the first change Definately to have 5 Spot Removal and 6 Cantrips.
I actually like this decklist of yours. I don't really see this having any trouble of beating merfolks, goblins, and possibly even vengevine madness postboard. Although, I think running more then 2 spell snares seems good against vengevine madness. Your chances of winning that matchup largely increases when your able to stop survival and on average you play much better threats in goyf and knight of the reliquary. So that's something to keep in mind when playing that matchup.
Also, great job on the Bant primer so far. It seems like it's a great primer for starters and I'll be looking forward to hearing how you combat against other proven decks in legacy in your primer. Keep up the good work.
I actually like this decklist of yours. I don't really see this having any trouble of beating merfolks, goblins, and possibly even vengevine madness postboard. Although, I think running more then 2 spell snares seems good against vengevine madness. Your chances of winning that matchup largely increases when your able to stop survival and on average you play much better threats in goyf and knight of the reliquary. So that's something to keep in mind when playing that matchup.
Yeah, I have been looking for a way to use Knight, he is just so good. Thanks for the pointers!
Also, great job on the Bant primer so far. It seems like it's a great primer for starters and I'll be looking forward to hearing how you combat against other proven decks in legacy in your primer. Keep up the good work.
// Creatures
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
3 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
// Spells
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [NE] Daze
2 Spell Snare
3 Stifle
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [M10] Ponder
// Sideboard
1 Volcanic Island
3 Firespout
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 [M10] Pithing Needle
1 Krosan Grip
2 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
1 [IA] Hydroblast
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
I chose to add a Volcanic and 3 Firespouts just because my meta is full of tribal/zoo-decks. A boardsweeper like Firespout is the only way of beating them. Tormod's Crypt came into the sideboard due to multiple dredgelists - it's way faster than Relic but I did not touch one single Relic just because of Needle on Crypt.
The maindeck was changed because of my personal preference for the (almost) full Wasteland/Stifle-Package. I cut Spell Pierce, too, simply because I had not enough room for it main. Spell Snare is too strong not to be played with so many cc2 threads around.
My ideas might already have been discussed. If so, I'm sorry for spamming the thread. But if I decide to play this list at the weekend I promise to write a short report.
----------------
I actually won the tournament 4-0-1 (including 1 attentional draw - we played 2 games for fur: 2-0 in my favor). Played against Elves-Survival, Slivers, Zoo, Death and Taxes and Burn.
Won 4-5 of the games because of Firespout (Zoo, Elves, Slivers, Zoo). EE would not have helped especially in the Elves matchup. So I think that the Firespout-SB seems to be very strong if you are playing in an aggro-heavy meta.
Looks like you've using Miko's decklist from UGw Tempo:
You should consult him if you're interested in how the deck plays on mtgthesource.
Can anyone share a good (at least decent) counter top variant witout progenitus?
I have this list that I have been playing on and off for awhile now. It was pretty decent but I designed the list before GP Madrid so it could be outdated. However, with some changes I still think it can do pretty well in the modern environment.
I just made this list from reading a lot of what people have been talking about in multiple threads on multiple websites and I think that this list, though expensive, looks solid enough to play with. Anyone who can give constructive criticism, please and thank you.
Also could Garruk Wildspeaker go into this list somewhere? I mean an overrun ability might be nice, though I guess played correctly this deck shouldn't need it.
I just made this list from reading a lot of what people have been talking about in multiple threads on multiple websites and I think that this list, though expensive, looks solid enough to play with. Anyone who can give constructive criticism, please and thank you.
Qasali Pridemage is goode enough to run 3-4 Main Board; MD artifact/enchant hate yes... but that's more exalted.
Too many Lands, you can drop 2-3 and still run wasteland
I would move K-grips (Pridemage is enough hate MD) and Jace 2.0 to the board. I used Jace 2.0 MD in the aggro build (x2), but i found i Only used him to chuck to Force lol. Jace is better in a control build or 3 from the board. Plus if you don't run him, you curve out at 3 and you can definately run 18 Lands.
Suggestions:
Try to get some Knight of the Reliquary, this creature runs rough shot; especially with all the fetch lands + wasteland; also alows you to run things like Bojuka Bog as GY hate from the board; or only running 1 other dual to splash a color. If you do run Knight, run at least 3.
Can you get 4x Tarmogoyf ? If you can, run 4. He is sick, I mean you have sorceries (Ponder), sacrifical creatures(qasali, thats 2 power more to goyf, killing an enchant or artifact + himself in your GY), Instants (StP,Fow), Lands (fetches/wastes). Therefore, he is 5/6 for :1mana::symg: if you only use 1 of each card type from your board, not including what your opponent will have. Having an exalted goyf is just sick. Plus when your jace dies he is 6/7! if you did all that, before getting the Exalted bonuses from nobles/pridemages. lol
I would drop a few fetches to add 1 more Savannah and 2 more Trops or 1 Trop and 1 more Tundra, need islands if you want to use Daze
Was the red splash worth it? did it help against slivers and merfolk?
YES! Just make sure you have FoW or Daze Protection. I think it works better in the Heavy counter build. If Fire Spout resolves, all that you have left to deal with is maybe commander, and just StP him. Should clear the way. Slivers was kinda slow to beat me anyway (his build was jank though)
I'm definitely going to do back on my list now that you've posted this. I don't really want to run Goyf, but I have no problem with KoTR. I also really want to run Jace in the main. It is one of my main reasons for doing Bant colors instead of just straight GW. That and Force of Will are the reason I love GWU.
I'm definitely going to do back on my list now that you've posted this. I don't really want to run Goyf, but I have no problem with KoTR. I also really want to run Jace in the main. It is one of my main reasons for doing Bant colors instead of just straight GW. That and Force of Will are the reason I love GWU.
Do you think this is better or worse than the list I posted previously? I hope it's better.
It's better and it looks fairly decent but I'd try to run another tundra and tropical island if ever possible. Possibly cut a couple of fetches for them and perhaps cut the savannah as well since you don't play any spell that costs two green.
I'd also recommend cutting Daze for spell snare since it's better against vengevine survival then daze is by a long shot. They also have hierarchs to play around daze. Also, I'd cut the kitchen finks for spell pierces.
@aaronc123: Congrats on your tournament finish. Do you mind going over what you boarded in and out for each matchup at that tournament?
I really don't want to cut Finks because where I play there's a lot of burn and it is a life saver from what I've heard.
Spell pierce looks good, are there any major creature threats in format that need countering though? From what I'm gathering the only things that need countering are noncreature.
I really don't want to cut Finks because where I play there's a lot of burn and it is a life saver from what I've heard.
Spell pierce looks good, are there any major creature threats in format that need countering though? From what I'm gathering the only things that need countering are noncreature.
Well, Rhox War Monk, is better against Burn. May want to consider 4 Main deck, plus you can chunk to FoW. So he's never dead.
Consider replacing your Daze with Spell Snare. Run 2 Finks and 4 War Monk, and 3-4 KoTR.
1 question, why don't you like Tarmogoyf? He is as scary to Legacy players as Jace 2.0 is to Standard players. (notice goy and jace are even trades lol). He is often 3/4; 4/5 by turn 2.
Also, watch out for the deck we keep mentioning: Vengevine Survival. It is probably one of Bant's worst matchups. This is why im starting to favor Spell snare over Daze. It's Survival of the Fittest + Basking Rootwalla + Vengevine. It is crucial you counter Survival, or it is GG. I know, i used to Use Bant Survival... There is a new combo they are running in it as an alternate if not faster win con... Necrotic Ooze + Phyrexian Devourer... I myself am using a version of this deck this weekend... You really have to shutdown survival or Fauna Shaman or you lose.
@aaronc123: Congrats on your tournament finish. Do you mind going over what you boarded in and out for each matchup at that tournament?
Board
Vs. Counter Sliver
-3 Stifle (He had lots of basics, not many fetches)
-3 Spell snare
-1 Wastland (his build sucked, not many duals)
+3 Fire Spout
+3 Hydroblast (countered the queen lol)
+1 Volcanic Island
Vs Dredge
-1 Wasteland
-1 Tundra
-3 Spell Snare
-3 Stifle
+1 Bojuka Bog
+1 Volcanic Island
+3 Firespout
+2 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Relic of progenitus
Vs Merfolk
-1 Tundra
-1 Rhox war monk
-2 Ponder
-3 Stifle
+1 Volcanic
+3 Firespout
+3 Pithing Needle
Vs. Imperial Painter (This was tough, My whole board almost came in lol)
-1 goyf
-1 Tundra
-1 war monk
-2 Ponder
-1 Daze
-2 Stifle
+3 Needle
+1 Krosan Grip
+3 Firespout
+1 Volcanic
I really don't want to cut Finks because where I play there's a lot of burn and it is a life saver from what I've heard.
Spell pierce looks good, are there any major creature threats in format that need countering though? From what I'm gathering the only things that need countering are noncreature.
Well, you can always run spell pierces in the sideboard if you find them lackluster in the main which can be the case depending on what you play against.
I also agree with aaronc123 here, Rhox war monk does seem to be alot better against burn then kitchen finks. Also, if rhox war monk isn't enough you can always resort to blue elemental blast in the sideboard for the second and maybe the 3rd game.
Consider replacing your Daze with Spell Snare. Run 2 Finks and 4 War Monk, and 3-4 KoTR.
1 question, why don't you like Tarmogoyf? He is as scary to Legacy players as Jace 2.0 is to Standard players. (notice goy and jace are even trades lol). He is often 3/4; 4/5 by turn 2.
Also, watch out for the deck we keep mentioning: Vengevine Survival. It is probably one of Bant's worst matchups. This is why im starting to favor Spell snare over Daze. It's Survival of the Fittest + Basking Rootwalla + Vengevine. It is crucial you counter Survival, or it is GG. I know, i used to Use Bant Survival... There is a new combo they are running in it as an alternate if not faster win con... Necrotic Ooze + Phyrexian Devourer... I myself am using a version of this deck this weekend... You really have to shutdown survival or Fauna Shaman or you lose.
Spell Snare looks pretty good, and the reasoning is really sound there. I like the idea of running it over Daze. Let me go edit my last list to the new specs.
Spell Snare looks pretty good, and the reasoning is really sound there. I like the idea of running it over Daze. Let me go edit my last list to the new specs.
Yep. Oh if you want to check out the 2 Primary Bant Lists I play for reference here they are if you click on show:
I am like 18-5-1 Matches over the past month, with these decks Combined. Very Consistent. My match losses normally only come in Top 8/4
@Kevinliu I did as you suggested last week
-1 Ponder
+1 Spell Snare
That worked splendidly, it was last minute change to my board. if yu look into the spoiler, These are my 2 versions that I'll use with minor tweaks to the SB here and there.
I really like your pro excalibur list. Although, I don't really like clique that much in the current environment it seems weak imo. I'd do this change: -2 clique, -1 daze, +3 Spell snare. 17-18 creatures seems plenty to attach your equipment to.
In the board, I'd run 2 pithing needles over the 2 gaddock teegs. Pithing needle seems to shut off substantially more cards then teeg.
I really like your pro excalibur list. Although, I don't really like clique that much in the current environment it seems weak imo. I'd do this change: -2 clique, -1 daze, +3 Spell snare. 17-18 creatures seems plenty to attach your equipment to.
In the board, I'd run 2 pithing needles over the 2 gaddock teegs. Pithing needle seems to shut off substantially more cards then teeg.
How do you feel about Ratchet Bomb? I'm experimenting with it at FNM tonight. There is a 40-man Legacy tourney tomorrow about 1 hour from where i live. I'm either going to use Bant Aggro or Goblins.
When countertop and landstill were the best decks in the format I actually would also play fact or fiction in my countertop build. As any form of card draw can serve you well against pure control. It's just too bad those days are gone.
Its great to hear. though having only 10 other Blue cards to pitch to FoW really scares me. I haven't tested with Blue count that low. Though if I were to run your list, I would probably cut some PtE for more Blue cards. Rhox Warmonk maybe as suggested by aaronc123.
I also think Jace is really good. But maybe in a more control version than aggro. I haven't tested JTMS extensively in aggro builds though, so don't put much weight on that.
I think 4 is ok. With my deck, I feel I need to have protection early that is why I keep 4. When the game goes on and it seems dead top deck, I should have top going and daze would be a 2cc flip for counterbalance, and also it still pitches to FoW.
Your deck seems quite different though. How are those wastelands for you?
Seems like a pretty solid NO Bant countertop list. Although, I'd do this change -3 Trygon, +1 Dryad Arbor, +1 Rhox War Monk, +1 Path to exile.
Sideboard for both merfolk and landstill could look something like:
2 Engineered explosives
2 Jace, the mind sculptor
3 Stoneforge mystic
1 Sword of fire and ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Path to exile
Both jace and spell pierce can be pretty awesome against the likes of landstill and you just win games against merfolks with stoneforge --> sword of fire and ice and/or jitte. Keep in mind that it's not the only or ultimate sideboard for a landstill + merfolk metagame, it's just for to give you some ideas.
Thanks for the advice. The trygons, though, came in for goyfs(for testing) which i will be putting back in to see the difference. Though the MD warmonks are not bad at all.
I'll try the SB you suggested, though I would tweak it a bit to include some GY hate.
Many thanks!
Ah, that makes alot more sense I didn't really realize that you didn't have a set of goyfs in there until now. I thought you did to be honest. Alright, trygon doesn't seem that bad of an option if you lack goyfs.
As for including grave yard hate in the board I suppose you could cut a pierce and a path for 2 relics or crypts. Let me know how your testing goes.
Here is my new list, at least temporarily. I'll use it tonight, and post my results in the morning.
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Rhox War Monk
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
Instants
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Stifle
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
Lands
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Firespout
3 Pithing Needle
2 Hydroblast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Volcanic Island
1 Krosan Grip
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of progenitus
I found this list on deckcheck and it looks promising. It is a Heavy Counter Version. Since it curves out at 3 instead of 4, I see that wasteland/Knight shouldn't be a problem. However, I have a couple of debates going on in my head at the moment.
Thinking about:
MD
-1 Ponder
+1 Path to Exile
or
-2 Spell Snare
-1 Ponder
+2 Umezawa's Jitte
+1 Path to Exile
I'm probably going to do the first change Definately to have 5 Spot Removal and 6 Cantrips.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
I actually like this decklist of yours. I don't really see this having any trouble of beating merfolks, goblins, and possibly even vengevine madness postboard. Although, I think running more then 2 spell snares seems good against vengevine madness. Your chances of winning that matchup largely increases when your able to stop survival and on average you play much better threats in goyf and knight of the reliquary. So that's something to keep in mind when playing that matchup.
Also, great job on the Bant primer so far. It seems like it's a great primer for starters and I'll be looking forward to hearing how you combat against other proven decks in legacy in your primer. Keep up the good work.
No Problem. This is quickly becoming one of my favorite decks to use.
Yeah, I have been looking for a way to use Knight, he is just so good. Thanks for the pointers!
Thanks!
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Looks like you've using Miko's decklist from UGw Tempo:
You should consult him if you're interested in how the deck plays on mtgthesource.
I have this list that I have been playing on and off for awhile now. It was pretty decent but I designed the list before GP Madrid so it could be outdated. However, with some changes I still think it can do pretty well in the modern environment.
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Rhox War monk
3 Qasali pridemage
2 Jace the mind sculptor
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei’s Divining top
4 Swords to plowshares
4 Daze
4 Force of will
4 brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Tundra
1 Island
1 plains
1 forest
4 misty rainforest
2 windswept heath
2 Flooded strand
Match 1: W Countersliver 2-0; deck was kinda weaksauce
Match 2 :W Dredge 2-0
Match 3: W Merfolk 2-1
Match 4: W Imperial Painter 2-0
Top 8: L Imperial Painter 1-2 (same deck, but he had turn 1 win last 2 games; First game shut him down like previous match; i had crap in hand...)
I'm impressed with this decks performance overall, still very, very consistent.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Was the red splash worth it? did it help against slivers and merfolk?
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Rhox War Monk
3x Troll Ascetic
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Kitchen Finks
Spells - 22
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Daze
3x Ponder
2x Krosan Grip
2x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
4x Wasteland
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Flooded Strand
3x Windswepth Heath
2x Tundra
2x Tropical Island
1x Savannah
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Plains
I just made this list from reading a lot of what people have been talking about in multiple threads on multiple websites and I think that this list, though expensive, looks solid enough to play with. Anyone who can give constructive criticism, please and thank you.
Also could Garruk Wildspeaker go into this list somewhere? I mean an overrun ability might be nice, though I guess played correctly this deck shouldn't need it.
Commander GU Edric Control
Well, your list will do fine but:
Suggestions:
Summary:
I would:
-2 Kitchen Finks
-3 Troll Ascetic
-2 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
-2 Krosan Grip
+3 Knight of the Reliquary
+4 Tarmogoyf
+1 Qasali Pridemage
+1 Daze
if you can get knights/goyfs. if not Run more Kitchen Finks / Vendilion Clique (+2/+1) Over Troll.
YES! Just make sure you have FoW or Daze Protection. I think it works better in the Heavy counter build. If Fire Spout resolves, all that you have left to deal with is maybe commander, and just StP him. Should clear the way. Slivers was kinda slow to beat me anyway (his build was jank though)
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
I'm definitely going to do back on my list now that you've posted this. I don't really want to run Goyf, but I have no problem with KoTR. I also really want to run Jace in the main. It is one of my main reasons for doing Bant colors instead of just straight GW. That and Force of Will are the reason I love GWU.
Here goes try number two:
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Rhox War Monk
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Qasali Pridemage
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Vendilion Clique
Spells - 21
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Spell Snare
3x Ponder
2x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Wasteland
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Flooded Strand
3x Windswepth Heath
2x Tundra
2x Tropical Island
1x Savannah
1x Forest
1x Island
Do you think this is better or worse than the list I posted previously? I hope it's better.
Commander GU Edric Control
It's better and it looks fairly decent but I'd try to run another tundra and tropical island if ever possible. Possibly cut a couple of fetches for them and perhaps cut the savannah as well since you don't play any spell that costs two green.
I'd also recommend cutting Daze for spell snare since it's better against vengevine survival then daze is by a long shot. They also have hierarchs to play around daze. Also, I'd cut the kitchen finks for spell pierces.
@aaronc123: Congrats on your tournament finish. Do you mind going over what you boarded in and out for each matchup at that tournament?
Spell pierce looks good, are there any major creature threats in format that need countering though? From what I'm gathering the only things that need countering are noncreature.
Commander GU Edric Control
Well, Rhox War Monk, is better against Burn. May want to consider 4 Main deck, plus you can chunk to FoW. So he's never dead.
To your question, yes: Tarmogoyf, Painter's Servant, other rhox war monks, maybe Kiln Fiend, Loyal Retainers, Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Lackey... just to name a few. This also leads me to favor Spell Snare in your build. cause notice, all the creatures i mentioned except loyal retainers and lackey are 2-drops...
Not to mention it counters Survival of the Fittest, Umezawa's Jitte, Fauna Shaman, Daze... to name a few more things.
Consider replacing your Daze with Spell Snare. Run 2 Finks and 4 War Monk, and 3-4 KoTR.
1 question, why don't you like Tarmogoyf? He is as scary to Legacy players as Jace 2.0 is to Standard players. (notice goy and jace are even trades lol). He is often 3/4; 4/5 by turn 2.
Also, watch out for the deck we keep mentioning: Vengevine Survival. It is probably one of Bant's worst matchups. This is why im starting to favor Spell snare over Daze. It's Survival of the Fittest + Basking Rootwalla + Vengevine. It is crucial you counter Survival, or it is GG. I know, i used to Use Bant Survival... There is a new combo they are running in it as an alternate if not faster win con... Necrotic Ooze + Phyrexian Devourer... I myself am using a version of this deck this weekend... You really have to shutdown survival or Fauna Shaman or you lose.
Board
Vs. Counter Sliver
-3 Stifle (He had lots of basics, not many fetches)
-3 Spell snare
-1 Wastland (his build sucked, not many duals)
+3 Fire Spout
+3 Hydroblast (countered the queen lol)
+1 Volcanic Island
Vs Dredge
-1 Wasteland
-1 Tundra
-3 Spell Snare
-3 Stifle
+1 Bojuka Bog
+1 Volcanic Island
+3 Firespout
+2 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Relic of progenitus
Vs Merfolk
-1 Tundra
-1 Rhox war monk
-2 Ponder
-3 Stifle
+1 Volcanic
+3 Firespout
+3 Pithing Needle
Vs. Imperial Painter (This was tough, My whole board almost came in lol)
-1 goyf
-1 Tundra
-1 war monk
-2 Ponder
-1 Daze
-2 Stifle
+3 Needle
+1 Krosan Grip
+3 Firespout
+1 Volcanic
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Well, you can always run spell pierces in the sideboard if you find them lackluster in the main which can be the case depending on what you play against.
I also agree with aaronc123 here, Rhox war monk does seem to be alot better against burn then kitchen finks. Also, if rhox war monk isn't enough you can always resort to blue elemental blast in the sideboard for the second and maybe the 3rd game.
Spell Snare looks pretty good, and the reasoning is really sound there. I like the idea of running it over Daze. Let me go edit my last list to the new specs.
Commander GU Edric Control
Yep. Oh if you want to check out the 2 Primary Bant Lists I play for reference here they are if you click on show:
I am like 18-5-1 Matches over the past month, with these decks Combined. Very Consistent. My match losses normally only come in Top 8/4
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Rhox War Monk
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
Instants
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
Lands
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Firespout
3 Pithing Needle
2 Hydroblast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Volcanic Island
1 Krosan Grip
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of progenitus
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Rhox War Monk
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Progenitus
1 Dryad Arbor
Instants
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
3 Natural Order
Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Body and Mind
Land
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tundra
3 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Dueling Grounds
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Krosan Grip
3 Hydroblast
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
@Kevinliu I did as you suggested last week
-1 Ponder
+1 Spell Snare
That worked splendidly, it was last minute change to my board. if yu look into the spoiler, These are my 2 versions that I'll use with minor tweaks to the SB here and there.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
In the board, I'd run 2 pithing needles over the 2 gaddock teegs. Pithing needle seems to shut off substantially more cards then teeg.
How do you feel about Ratchet Bomb? I'm experimenting with it at FNM tonight. There is a 40-man Legacy tourney tomorrow about 1 hour from where i live. I'm either going to use Bant Aggro or Goblins.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur