I'll try to figure out how to set up screen recordings for practice play.
I like the list but this might just be me but I'd cut a spell snare for another counterspell. I find counterspell to be far more versatile in a ton of different situations. Although, if you choose to keep the countermagic configuration the way it is that's fine as well. Best of luck!
First off, our local shop just moved locations, and the new one is terrible imo. Any readers from Ann Arbor can disagree or back me up on this. But we play in the basement now, and between the cramped space and the hard walls and floor, the echo is so bad that I can't hear myself think. I don't mean to make excuses for anything, but coinciding with this problem is the fact that I played horribly and punted a lot of games. I also don't play as much as I wish I had time to, so I can't auto-pilot like some of the others can. Especially now that I'm playing blue again. =/
Awh man, I'm moving to Ann Arbor next year. Nobody plays Legacy around here so I was building my deck in anticipation of a thriving Legacy scene.
Oh, no worries, the scene is quite thriving here! I just don't like the basement at the new shop, lol. But there are a ton of serious Legacy players here and pros show up often as well. So, expect to be playing against tier 1 decks quite a lot. Not that someone didn't show up with Battle of Wits the other day...
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
I have a question about the exalted ability. When i have two creatures with exalted for example 2x noble hierarch on the table and attack with a creature. Does this creature get +2/+2 or just +1/+1? Hope you can help me.
Exalted triggers from all creature are put on the stack. So your creature will get +2/+2.
thoughts about Edric?
it can be good here, i think...
Why not Cold-Eyed Selkie instead? 2/2 v. 1/1 is largely irrelevant. Selkie's slightly easier to cast, has Islandwalk, and can draw you more than one card off Exalted.
How does this deck stand a chance against all the hand disruption seeing increased play these days??
Is it to the point where we'll need to sideboardappropriately? Or is adding more draw a good fix?
Here's what I'm playing
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Knight of the Relinquary
2 Vendillion Clique
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
How does this deck stand a chance against all the hand disruption seeing increased play these days??
Is it to the point where we'll need to sideboardappropriately? Or is adding more draw a good fix?
I have two thoughts as to how we can address Hymn to Tourach, whether playing NO Bant or Aggro (or Excalibur or whatever). One is to use Brainstorm as a defense to it, instead of using it to dig for lands or shuffle away the chaff in your hand. Basically, if they can Hymn and it would hurt you, save a U in order to hide your best cards on top. This requires putting your opponent on the deck and adjusting play accordingly, and while it of course cannot stop a turn one Hymn on the play, nothing aside from Force can so you're in the same boat as every other deck.
The second thought is to be playing either Daze or Spell Pierce in addition to Mental Misstep. MM is obviously one of the best spells in Legacy now, so to cut it would probably be silly, but adding another counterspell that can deal with Hymn (and a bunch of other problematic cards) is probably a good idea at this point. I'd say if you're on NO then Daze is better because it offers you free protection for your NO as well, and if not, then Spell Pierce could be better because it's less conditional. What I'm thinking of cutting for the additional counters at this point is probably Ponder. It's just such a downgrade from Brainstorm for what this deck wants to do and doesn't help combat discard at all.
I guess I said I had two thoughts, but the third is to take the hint from Rynkiewicz and cut Force of Will. It's inherent card disadvantage and, if you counter Hymn with it you are barely gaining anything at all. I doubt that NoFoW will become too much of a trend (though a few bandwagoners will probably try it for a while), but in any event it might be worth considering to board the Forces out in these matches. Here is his list, the winning one from GP Providence, for reference:
Lastly, I don't think the green dudes that hit play when discarded are that helpful. Hymn is random, so at that point you're just hoping to get lucky and discard the dude, but if you don't, it's probably a dead card that's left in your hand, and now you're down three cards basically instead of two.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
Glad to see a little traffic here!! I am So glad I chose Bant as my break-into-Legacy deck! I was cheering on James the whole weekend and was glad to see he answered my previous question in Sylvan Library! Those other suggestions I had were whack and for some reason there wasnt a lot of discard being played at the GP. I got the impression from SCG recent top 8s that Hymm, Sieze were running rampant.
I don't know how I feel about not playing FoW because I'm new to Legacy (not the game though) so I havent played in this meta much but I want to say I dont feel safe not having it in my 75 because it becomes a trend then more combo starts to pop up and I don't want to be the dude not prepared!
To be honest though, it seemed to me that he had what he needed to get the job done so maybe Force isn't AS needed as we might feel.
One thing I'd like to experiment with is Stifle! This deck is so much tempo and being able to put yourself far ahead of an opponent is an advantage I want to really abuse to win the game. I have always liked the card because it has the ability to do so many things. Counter a fetch, Standstill, Deed, Mystics, etc. Might be a good sb for Standstill decks?
Whoops! my bad bro's, I didn't even think about what I wrote last night lol...
Chestnutz is right! It was more of a meta game call than anything but you really don't need it much in this meta but as I said before, if this keeps up then combo will take advantage. For now I might run 3 MD but who knows...
As for cutting Force of Will, it's just wrong. Just because someone won a GP with it doesn't make it right. It makes it a meta call.
It can't be both wrong and a meta call. If it's a meta call, then sometimes it's right.
You're right to say that winning one GP doesn't make a deck the best possible version, but there is something to say for being against Force. It's card disadvantage, for one. And Bant, unlike Merfolk, has the tools necessary to deal with resolved permanents, in Swords to Plowshares, Krosan Grip out of the board, bigger dudes, silver bullet lands, etc.
The potential downside is a weaker match against combo decks, certainly, but you still have a ton of possible disruption against them, like Misstep, Daze, Pierce, and Vendillion Clique. The only thing Force really does is keep Belcher from becoming a tier 1 deck. As long as this continues and Belcher isn't played, you're probably OK since you can still be disruptive against decks like ANT and High Tide, although admittedly Force would be good there. But his deck beat Hive Mind combo to win the championship, so don't feel like you're cold to combo.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
This deck is really strong. It does play blue, but it has no force of will. Why?
1. They are card disadvantage. Something you don't want in this deck. There aren't many spells that need to be countered in the early game for such a steep cost. 2. Combo is usually the reason people play force of will, but usually mental misstep and daze take care of it. 3. This deck only plays 14 blue spells. Not enough to usually play force of will for free anyways. This deck relies on tempo, so all you really need would be daze and mental misstep (maybe spell snare, but I've come to the conclusion that mental misstep is better for tempo). This deck really just wins by swinging with a bunch of strong creatures, but sometimes wins by jace's -13 too.. It's fast, nut draws, messes with the opponents tempo, and usually has answers to most of the cards the opponent plays while keeping itself aggro.
My changes to the deck:
Mainboard:
-Tarmogoyf +1 Stoneforge -1 Sword of Feast and Famine -1 Umezawa's Jitte +1 Sword of Body and Mind +1 Batterskull
Sideboard:
-1 Umezawa's Jitte +1 Sword of Feast and Famine
I didn't change a lot of things, but I think they're big changes. As you know, stoneforge is now one of the best creatures even in legacy. Comboed with batterskull, it is really hard to beat. Batterskull, when played, is very hard to beat. Tarmogoyf, even though a great creature and can be tutored out with green sun's zenith, our key tutoring spell, I don't think it fits in here. I'd rather play a stoneforge turn 2. There aren't many cards that go to the graveyard so it's actually not that good in this deck. Green Sun's Zenith gets shuffled back into the deck and creatures get removed from the game by Swords to Plowshares. Lands and instants are the cards that go to the graveyard on a consistent basis. I chose sword of body and mind over sword of feast and famine in mainboard for many things. First, the protection. Protection from blue and green is better than protection from black and green. Green is off course great as it can go through/block creature's like tarmogoyf, which is important. Both swords have pro green. the difference in protection are pro blue and pro black. As I am mostly an aggro deck that fights with creatures I usually don't want the opponent's creature to bother me. Lets look at the blue creatures that you usually see in the top 8:
Vedillion Clique
Sower of Temptation (can really mess with you)
The Merfolk creatures
Now black:
Dark Confidant
Tombstalker
The only creature from black that is an actual threat is tombstalker. Dark Confidant isn't a threat at all to you, but a threat to themselves. While it does give you a great amount of card advantage, it barely has any board presence and makes them lose a ton of life, which is quickly dwindling away by your creatures anyway. Blue, on the other hand, has many threats. Merfolk is one of them. You usually beat merfolk constantly, but when they get a gond hand with nut draws it's actually kind of hard to beat them. Pro blue just shuts them down. Knight of Reliquary + sword of body and mind is usually a 2-3 turn clock against them. vedilion clique is more feared by it's ability which pro blue (or pro blac) can do anything about but it's flying 3/1 body can actually be pretty threating at times. Pro blue stops that. Now sower of temptation is just devastating at times. While being a 2/2 flying body it can take one of your creatures. Brutal. Pro blue stops that. Spell wise I will admit that pro black is better than pro blue as the only blue spells that i see are usually counters draw, bounce (which is actually very good) and sometimes the mind control enchatments. Black has the kill spells. But, looking at many top 8 deck that play black only play go for the throat or smother, which I usually only see as a one of (which is also why I have sword of feast and famine in the siedboard anyways). The best part of pro blue? It can't be jace bounced. kill spells last once. jace bounce can happen all day long, which just messes with my tempo pretty bad. I don't know which sword's ability are better though. the discard is great for disruption, but mill ten is usually better IMO unless your up against dredge or animator. the untap lands is good as it makes it easier to hold mana for your counter spells and batterskull but you only have 6 counters and you usually have enough mana for the counter spells. Oh, and you don't have to worry about 3 of the counter spells as they are usually free. Now the 2/2 body isn't something to laugh at. It gives you another body to attack with, or a creature to reequip the sword of body and mind to to block your opponent's creatures with; so you can carelessly swing with an equipped knight of reliquary and then reequip the sword to the wolf to block a merfolk for example.
Now the biggest thing is taking out the jittes altogether. I seriously just think that batterskull and the swords are just better, mainboard or sideboard. The only time jitte is better than the swords is against goblins, which you usually beat anyways and have batterskull to deal with those pesky goblins.
Anyways this a great deck so I suggest to try it out and see for yourself how strong the deck is! Please tell me what you think of the deck and how to make it better!
The things I am trying to do is squeeze in mirran crusaders and maybe 1 academy ruin to the deck. Mirran crusader is a beast (especially against BUG) and fit's perfectly into the deck. Problem: the deck is pretty tight so i don't know what to take out. Even worse, it can't be tutored out by green sun's and I don't want to delude the power of green sun's, which i forgot to mention is really powerful in the deck. I still believe mirran crusader should really be in the deck. I thought 1 academy ruin might be nice as you don't want your swords or batterskull to get destroyed by a krosan grip and not be able to get it back. Even better you can fetch it with knight of reliquary. the problem is that like I said, the deck is pretty tight, especially the lands. Even worse it only produces colorless mana, which can easily mana screw you. Thoughts?
I'd play Divert over Misdirection. But that's a personal opinion and play preference.
Otherwise your MD looks identical to mine, except I play the 4th Clique over the 4th Misstep.
yeah i changed my SB to add jitte it's just too good vs all the new SFM decks
i would rather have a MM over clique vs most of the matchups now that zoo is sorta back
ending up having to drop MD cause team is sorta missing and the rise of SFM decks with jitte
Why is he playing 3x Noble Hierarch and 1x Birds of Paradise ? In my opinion i would play 4x Noble Hierarch because of the Exalted abilitiy and he produces the mana we need.
One reason; the flying. Tombstalkers are just killer against this deck. With the help of equipment, it can either block the opponents flyers or do some serious damage.
yeah i changed my SB to add jitte it's just too good vs all the new SFM decks
i would rather have a MM over clique vs most of the matchups now that zoo is sorta back
ending up having to drop MD cause team is sorta missing and the rise of SFM decks with jitte
Eh, Zoo is back, but the SFM decks are seeing a rise in play as well.
All depends on which one you think may see more play.
Why is he playing 3x Noble Hierarch and 1x Birds of Paradise ? In my opinion i would play 4x Noble Hierarch because of the Exalted abilitiy and he produces the mana we need.
Second reason. GSZ can get you a red mana source now.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
He is legendary so playing 4 is most likely too much. It is much more likely that he will work better in a list playing GSZ and then play him as a 1-of.
I've been playing a toolbox version of this a lot on MWS and it seems to work really well. I know the numbers look very wonky but if you count how many actual versions of the different cards are in the deck (based on tutoring) then it actually works well.
Qty Name
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Plains (4)
1 Forest
1 Karakas
3 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sylvan Library
2 Spell Pierce
4 Mental Misstep
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Ancestral Vision
1 Misdirection
0 Umezawa's Jitte
0 Ratchet Bomb
0 Pithing Needle
0 Chalice of the Void
0 Powder Keg
0 Serenity
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
0 Ethersworn Canonist
0 Gaddock Teeg
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
0 Wheel of Sun and Moon
0 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Daze
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Enlightened Tutor
0 Spell Snare
3 Counterspell
60 Lands: 23, Spells: 30, Crt: 7
I'm not sure how to use the nice deck tags... It feels more consistent than it looks, the sideboard doesn't show up right but I have an et package with an extra ET, and a few SFM w/ jitte.
i am quite interested starting up legacy, i assume this is sort of similar to a toolbox, using zenith to fetch KotR, goyf, and monk, but i still have some questions on how to play it...
does 1 jace just sit there for use every now and then?
is rhox war monk all that great?, why? it seems really solid, but wouldnt another goyf be a little more powerful?
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Modern UWUW ControlUW UGWSpiritsUGW GHardened ScalesG WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
Is there a difference between just Bant and NO Bant? has NO Bant evolved into NO RUG? The NO RUG thread is saying the R splash for sideboard is superior to W.
I'm just wondering because I have Tundras and not Volcanic Islands...
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
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I like the list but this might just be me but I'd cut a spell snare for another counterspell. I find counterspell to be far more versatile in a ton of different situations. Although, if you choose to keep the countermagic configuration the way it is that's fine as well. Best of luck!
Awh man, I'm moving to Ann Arbor next year. Nobody plays Legacy around here so I was building my deck in anticipation of a thriving Legacy scene.
:EDH:
WR Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (HOLD/100) WR
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion (HOLD/100) WB
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
Exalted triggers from all creature are put on the stack. So your creature will get +2/+2.
Why not Cold-Eyed Selkie instead? 2/2 v. 1/1 is largely irrelevant. Selkie's slightly easier to cast, has Islandwalk, and can draw you more than one card off Exalted.
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
Is it to the point where we'll need to sideboard appropriately? Or is adding more draw a good fix?
Here's what I'm playing
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Knight of the Relinquary
2 Vendillion Clique
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Preordain
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
Thanks to Dantcg for the Sig!
I have two thoughts as to how we can address Hymn to Tourach, whether playing NO Bant or Aggro (or Excalibur or whatever). One is to use Brainstorm as a defense to it, instead of using it to dig for lands or shuffle away the chaff in your hand. Basically, if they can Hymn and it would hurt you, save a U in order to hide your best cards on top. This requires putting your opponent on the deck and adjusting play accordingly, and while it of course cannot stop a turn one Hymn on the play, nothing aside from Force can so you're in the same boat as every other deck.
The second thought is to be playing either Daze or Spell Pierce in addition to Mental Misstep. MM is obviously one of the best spells in Legacy now, so to cut it would probably be silly, but adding another counterspell that can deal with Hymn (and a bunch of other problematic cards) is probably a good idea at this point. I'd say if you're on NO then Daze is better because it offers you free protection for your NO as well, and if not, then Spell Pierce could be better because it's less conditional. What I'm thinking of cutting for the additional counters at this point is probably Ponder. It's just such a downgrade from Brainstorm for what this deck wants to do and doesn't help combat discard at all.
I guess I said I had two thoughts, but the third is to take the hint from Rynkiewicz and cut Force of Will. It's inherent card disadvantage and, if you counter Hymn with it you are barely gaining anything at all. I doubt that NoFoW will become too much of a trend (though a few bandwagoners will probably try it for a while), but in any event it might be worth considering to board the Forces out in these matches. Here is his list, the winning one from GP Providence, for reference:
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Daze
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Mental Misstep
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dispel
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
1 Mental Misstep
1 Path to Exile
2 Rhox War Monk
3 Spell Pierce
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
15 sideboard cards
Lastly, I don't think the green dudes that hit play when discarded are that helpful. Hymn is random, so at that point you're just hoping to get lucky and discard the dude, but if you don't, it's probably a dead card that's left in your hand, and now you're down three cards basically instead of two.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
I don't know how I feel about not playing FoW because I'm new to Legacy (not the game though) so I havent played in this meta much but I want to say I dont feel safe not having it in my 75 because it becomes a trend then more combo starts to pop up and I don't want to be the dude not prepared!
To be honest though, it seemed to me that he had what he needed to get the job done so maybe Force isn't AS needed as we might feel.
One thing I'd like to experiment with is Stifle! This deck is so much tempo and being able to put yourself far ahead of an opponent is an advantage I want to really abuse to win the game. I have always liked the card because it has the ability to do so many things. Counter a fetch, Standstill, Deed, Mystics, etc. Might be a good sb for Standstill decks?
Thanks to Dantcg for the Sig!
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Curse PremiumYou cast Stifle targeting the tiggered ability.
In response to Stifle being cast, Standstill triggers again.
How do people not know this?
@ Lor
I anticipate the deck to see a lot of play on Magic Online, just because Force of Wills cost too much. Enjoy facing the mirror in every daily.
As for cutting Force of Will, it's just wrong. Just because someone won a GP with it doesn't make it right. It makes it a meta call.
Chestnutz is right! It was more of a meta game call than anything but you really don't need it much in this meta but as I said before, if this keeps up then combo will take advantage. For now I might run 3 MD but who knows...
Thanks to Dantcg for the Sig!
It can't be both wrong and a meta call. If it's a meta call, then sometimes it's right.
You're right to say that winning one GP doesn't make a deck the best possible version, but there is something to say for being against Force. It's card disadvantage, for one. And Bant, unlike Merfolk, has the tools necessary to deal with resolved permanents, in Swords to Plowshares, Krosan Grip out of the board, bigger dudes, silver bullet lands, etc.
The potential downside is a weaker match against combo decks, certainly, but you still have a ton of possible disruption against them, like Misstep, Daze, Pierce, and Vendillion Clique. The only thing Force really does is keep Belcher from becoming a tier 1 deck. As long as this continues and Belcher isn't played, you're probably OK since you can still be disruptive against decks like ANT and High Tide, although admittedly Force would be good there. But his deck beat Hive Mind combo to win the championship, so don't feel like you're cold to combo.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
here's what ive been playing with
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Progenitus
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mental Misstep
4 Natural Order
2 Ponder
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Misdirection
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Terastodon
3 Tormod's Crypt
i added the mountian main for the merfolk matchup having a red souce that cant be wastelanded is huge
the only "odd" card i have in my sb is the Misdirection which is for team which i feel is one of the bad matchup
Here's the deck:
James Rynkiewicz
2011 GP Providence
Main Deck:
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Mental Misstep
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dispel
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
1 Mental Misstep
1 Path to Exile
2 Rhox War Monk
3 Spell Pierce
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Umezawa's Jitte
This deck is really strong. It does play blue, but it has no force of will. Why?
1. They are card disadvantage. Something you don't want in this deck. There aren't many spells that need to be countered in the early game for such a steep cost. 2. Combo is usually the reason people play force of will, but usually mental misstep and daze take care of it. 3. This deck only plays 14 blue spells. Not enough to usually play force of will for free anyways. This deck relies on tempo, so all you really need would be daze and mental misstep (maybe spell snare, but I've come to the conclusion that mental misstep is better for tempo). This deck really just wins by swinging with a bunch of strong creatures, but sometimes wins by jace's -13 too.. It's fast, nut draws, messes with the opponents tempo, and usually has answers to most of the cards the opponent plays while keeping itself aggro.
Here's my version of the deck:
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Mental Misstep
1 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dispel
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
1 Mental Misstep
1 Path to Exile
2 Rhox War Monk
3 Spell Pierce
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
My changes to the deck:
Mainboard:
-Tarmogoyf +1 Stoneforge -1 Sword of Feast and Famine -1 Umezawa's Jitte +1 Sword of Body and Mind +1 Batterskull
Sideboard:
-1 Umezawa's Jitte +1 Sword of Feast and Famine
I didn't change a lot of things, but I think they're big changes. As you know, stoneforge is now one of the best creatures even in legacy. Comboed with batterskull, it is really hard to beat. Batterskull, when played, is very hard to beat. Tarmogoyf, even though a great creature and can be tutored out with green sun's zenith, our key tutoring spell, I don't think it fits in here. I'd rather play a stoneforge turn 2. There aren't many cards that go to the graveyard so it's actually not that good in this deck. Green Sun's Zenith gets shuffled back into the deck and creatures get removed from the game by Swords to Plowshares. Lands and instants are the cards that go to the graveyard on a consistent basis. I chose sword of body and mind over sword of feast and famine in mainboard for many things. First, the protection. Protection from blue and green is better than protection from black and green. Green is off course great as it can go through/block creature's like tarmogoyf, which is important. Both swords have pro green. the difference in protection are pro blue and pro black. As I am mostly an aggro deck that fights with creatures I usually don't want the opponent's creature to bother me. Lets look at the blue creatures that you usually see in the top 8:
Vedillion Clique
Sower of Temptation (can really mess with you)
The Merfolk creatures
Now black:
Dark Confidant
Tombstalker
The only creature from black that is an actual threat is tombstalker. Dark Confidant isn't a threat at all to you, but a threat to themselves. While it does give you a great amount of card advantage, it barely has any board presence and makes them lose a ton of life, which is quickly dwindling away by your creatures anyway. Blue, on the other hand, has many threats. Merfolk is one of them. You usually beat merfolk constantly, but when they get a gond hand with nut draws it's actually kind of hard to beat them. Pro blue just shuts them down. Knight of Reliquary + sword of body and mind is usually a 2-3 turn clock against them. vedilion clique is more feared by it's ability which pro blue (or pro blac) can do anything about but it's flying 3/1 body can actually be pretty threating at times. Pro blue stops that. Now sower of temptation is just devastating at times. While being a 2/2 flying body it can take one of your creatures. Brutal. Pro blue stops that. Spell wise I will admit that pro black is better than pro blue as the only blue spells that i see are usually counters draw, bounce (which is actually very good) and sometimes the mind control enchatments. Black has the kill spells. But, looking at many top 8 deck that play black only play go for the throat or smother, which I usually only see as a one of (which is also why I have sword of feast and famine in the siedboard anyways). The best part of pro blue? It can't be jace bounced. kill spells last once. jace bounce can happen all day long, which just messes with my tempo pretty bad. I don't know which sword's ability are better though. the discard is great for disruption, but mill ten is usually better IMO unless your up against dredge or animator. the untap lands is good as it makes it easier to hold mana for your counter spells and batterskull but you only have 6 counters and you usually have enough mana for the counter spells. Oh, and you don't have to worry about 3 of the counter spells as they are usually free. Now the 2/2 body isn't something to laugh at. It gives you another body to attack with, or a creature to reequip the sword of body and mind to to block your opponent's creatures with; so you can carelessly swing with an equipped knight of reliquary and then reequip the sword to the wolf to block a merfolk for example.
Now the biggest thing is taking out the jittes altogether. I seriously just think that batterskull and the swords are just better, mainboard or sideboard. The only time jitte is better than the swords is against goblins, which you usually beat anyways and have batterskull to deal with those pesky goblins.
Anyways this a great deck so I suggest to try it out and see for yourself how strong the deck is! Please tell me what you think of the deck and how to make it better!
The things I am trying to do is squeeze in mirran crusaders and maybe 1 academy ruin to the deck. Mirran crusader is a beast (especially against BUG) and fit's perfectly into the deck. Problem: the deck is pretty tight so i don't know what to take out. Even worse, it can't be tutored out by green sun's and I don't want to delude the power of green sun's, which i forgot to mention is really powerful in the deck. I still believe mirran crusader should really be in the deck. I thought 1 academy ruin might be nice as you don't want your swords or batterskull to get destroyed by a krosan grip and not be able to get it back. Even better you can fetch it with knight of reliquary. the problem is that like I said, the deck is pretty tight, especially the lands. Even worse it only produces colorless mana, which can easily mana screw you. Thoughts?
I'd play Divert over Misdirection. But that's a personal opinion and play preference.
Otherwise your MD looks identical to mine, except I play the 4th Clique over the 4th Misstep.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
yeah i changed my SB to add jitte it's just too good vs all the new SFM decks
i would rather have a MM over clique vs most of the matchups now that zoo is sorta back
ending up having to drop MD cause team is sorta missing and the rise of SFM decks with jitte
One reason; the flying. Tombstalkers are just killer against this deck. With the help of equipment, it can either block the opponents flyers or do some serious damage.
Eh, Zoo is back, but the SFM decks are seeing a rise in play as well.
All depends on which one you think may see more play.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
CalebD's Bant
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Brainstorm
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Force of Will
Creatures:
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Rhox War Monk
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Tarmogoyf
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Island
2 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
3 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plains
2 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sower of Temptation
3 Pithing Needle
3 Spell Pierce
1 Trygon Predator
3 Submerge
3 Misdirection
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
Second reason. GSZ can get you a red mana source now.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
Said about Yawgmoth’s Will
Credits to Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the truly miraculous sig.
GURRUG Delver
RGoblins
RUGPunishing Balance
Modern:
UR Izzet Tron
Qty Name
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Plains (4)
1 Forest
1 Karakas
3 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sylvan Library
2 Spell Pierce
4 Mental Misstep
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Ancestral Vision
1 Misdirection
0 Umezawa's Jitte
0 Ratchet Bomb
0 Pithing Needle
0 Chalice of the Void
0 Powder Keg
0 Serenity
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
0 Ethersworn Canonist
0 Gaddock Teeg
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
0 Wheel of Sun and Moon
0 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Daze
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Enlightened Tutor
0 Spell Snare
3 Counterspell
60 Lands: 23, Spells: 30, Crt: 7
I'm not sure how to use the nice deck tags... It feels more consistent than it looks, the sideboard doesn't show up right but I have an et package with an extra ET, and a few SFM w/ jitte.
i am quite interested starting up legacy, i assume this is sort of similar to a toolbox, using zenith to fetch KotR, goyf, and monk, but i still have some questions on how to play it...
does 1 jace just sit there for use every now and then?
is rhox war monk all that great?, why? it seems really solid, but wouldnt another goyf be a little more powerful?
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
I'm just wondering because I have Tundras and not Volcanic Islands...