hey i was hoping to get some experiential wisdom about this; how often does playing 4 ofs of both top and CB hurt you when you already have them in play? do you just use top to syphon the non- combo cards to the top? You can always pitch a CB to FoW, but that might happen twice in one game if you're lucky.
when i played bant CB. i played with 3 tops and 4 cb. you dont want 3 tops in play. 2 is great. 3 is too much. so i play 3 ofs in my deck + sylvan library. and it didnt hurt at all.
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Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
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Hmm yea I guess that could come out. I'm thinking 1 land and 1 spell pierce. 22 land should be good with 4 Brainstorm and 3 Ponder. I'll run 1 dryad arbor as well so I can fetch for a land with a Zenith if needed.
i dont have an updated decklist for Cb BANT. but this is the deck i had before and my teammate played it for me because i got sick before GP manila started. he went top 16th in a tournament of 105 people i think. I dont have KOTR before as well, we used Rhox warmonk, whichever is effective for you. feel free to test it.
Mind the list, it doesnt have a "toolbox" like any other CB decks, its because Bant Runs Green, so its "Creature permanent" based not "non-creature permanent" based
My opinion is based on the older meta though.
most likely, this list would promise you a Game 1 win in a match because of its heavy control.
Game 2 can be tricky, normally, we'd board out cliques, and board in pridemages or anything that fits your perception. But since meta has changed. i think we should board out force of will. and add life linkers.
hope this helps.
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A team should be as happy as a meal - TEAM HAPPYMEAL
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
your list seems pretty tough. but i suggest maxing out the count for counterbalance to a play set rather than playing just 3, why? because just like brainstorm, its just best if you play it a playset.. and minimize your equipment count to 2 maximum to make way for the 4th counterbalance.
I also like the idea of JTMS but i preffer Elspeth, knight-errant because it can generate creatures and can make batterskull even scarrier. i say 1 of elspeth and 1 JTMS.
daze seems cool, i just dont like how it delays me most of the time.
sideboard would always depend on the meta and how you intercept it. so i think i dont have any argument with that.
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A team should be as happy as a meal - TEAM HAPPYMEAL
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
I disagree about CB, 4 is too much, as you'll really be drawing the second too often. I would do 4 SDT before 4 CB.
I do agree about the equipment though, 3 is a bit much.
You don't want to be going with Daze in this kind of list, as the tempo disruption it causes you is big. Instead I would play 3 Snares. I could actually see dropping the mana dorks all together and just playing say 3 Kotr, 2 Rhox, and 3 SFM. When playing CB, you're going heavy control, and you'd rather leave up U for a counter than drop a dork. Rhox is really powerful, so I think I'd at least test a few of him in the main. Don't forget you will not nessissarily be cracking you're fetches right away and that you don't have wasteland, so KotR will be growing slower than normal lists.
Not sure how I feel about both a CB and a SFM package. I can't help but feel you want to have more versatility in the main, the kind that ET can give you. Plus ET synergises with CB.
This list has 9 2 CMC cards, plus plenty of other md counters. My rationale on Daze is as follows. Daze is best T1/2. Daze slows down you're deck if you are playing 20 or more lands. The key card in this deck, CB, takes two mana and is a conditional counter for everything. Unless you are dropping a T2 CB, I see Daze as too much of a liability. You rarely want to cast it T1, which is why I decided to drop the dorks and up the 1 CMC instants. Remember, you are control not tempo. Sure, Snare is narrow, but it's such a powerful card and relevant vs most every deck.
Not sure how I missed the Wastelands lol. I tried to fit Clique in but it didn't really work.
thanks for the tips,
well i felt the need for a 4th counterbalance too, i sure want to open the game with one in my hand. However indeed multiples are bad, i feel like 4 may be needed as people will certainly answer counterbalance if they see it.
I removed a pîece of equipment already in the meantime. But what do you think should remove. batterskull or sword of feast and famine? (or jitte maybe)
i removed sword of feast and famine and put it in the side.
till now i haven't had problems with daze. The thought behind it is that we often tap out in the early turns (at leats i do maybe i'm doing wrong) to drop counterbalance as early as possible for example. Daze then protects you cards while you can tap out.
The other argument for it is that i have the problem with spell snare that it is quite narrow, the good 2drops are less played nowadays but mainly: we need to keep mana open to use it, requireing slower play and not tapping out in the early turns.
i have thought about spell snare though which i side in in a lot of matchups, but if fulfill sanother role, it doesn't really act as an early game counterspell but as a hoser for jace, sneak attack or spells that target your threats.
And not to forget, when you have a mana dork out, you lose no tempo. But i can deffinitely see daze vausing some problems maybe i'll bump onto those problems after more testing.
About rhox warmonk. i DO run wastelands, and in the end i guess i just prefer vendilion clique. I have been thinking about throwing out the SFM package for a green sun's zenith package with at least an ooze, pridemage and warmonk. But i don't have my zeniths yet so i haven't compared them yet. I guess in the end the GSZ package will be better because it's faster and rhox warmonk serves as a batterskull in the end.
Now after removing stoneforges, dazes, jitte there's th eproblem that i have absolutely no 2 drops except for pridemage and ooze. Which is kind of problematic for the counterbalance engine i guess.
Green Sun's Zenith - in my opinion, i think this tech does not fit in CB bant. because it doesnt benefit you when top decking. i'd rather move him on the sideboard... btw. do you have any results from your first list? i think that list is better than this one, minus feast and famine.
why did you remove daze? its actually insanely good for Cb decks, but i just dont feel like using it.
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EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
I like Bant Blouses better than Maverick with blue Bant. I mean, isnt Geist/Troll a better beatdown setup with exalted trigger because they have hexproof? I know throwing auras on hexproof dorks sounds childish and Timmy like, but it works wonders in a world of easy cheesy kill spells.
Hexproof, plus auras and exalted triggers with Daze/Spell Pierce backup sounds like a better plan than old school bant.
I like Bant Blouses better than Maverick with blue Bant. I mean, isnt Geist/Troll a better beatdown setup with exalted trigger because they have hexproof? I know throwing auras on hexproof dorks sounds childish and Timmy like, but it works wonders in a world of easy cheesy kill spells.
Hexproof, plus auras and exalted triggers with Daze/Spell Pierce backup sounds like a better plan than old school bant.
Awesome Presence seems pretty legit actually. The thing is, it's gotta be better than Jitte AND compensate for the versatility of a SFM package. Which it doesn't IMO.
You dont need the Sfmystic package, thats the point. Sideboard jitte for matches where it even matters, and maybe a pte or 2. The maindeck should be about hexproof dorks, spectral flights, unstable mutattions, pblasts and beating them quickly.
Hey guys. I am new to the Bant archetype. This is my first crack at a deck list. My main concern with this deck is beating combo, but my meta also consists of Burn, Affinity, and sometimes Sneak & Show. Do you guys have any suggestions? Does GSZ work well with this type of deck? Also, what else should I put in my sideboard?
Thanks very much for your help. Like you, I've also considered the SFM package to be a bit too slow right now. If tribal decks start becoming popular around me again like Goblins, Elves, and Merfolk, I'll consider putting it back in and adjusting the sideboard accordingly.
Anyway, this is how my sideboard has shaped up after your advice:
Decided to go with COP: Red over my usual choice of Warmth because of its dual function of negating Progenitus. Really wanted to fit Surgical Extraction in there somewhere, but I can't find room. How's it look?
Hey guys. I am new to the Bant archetype. This is my first crack at a deck list. My main concern with this deck is beating combo, but my meta also consists of Burn, Affinity, and sometimes Sneak & Show. Do you guys have any suggestions? Does GSZ work well with this type of deck? Also, what else should I put in my sideboard?
i like it, except for the ethersworn canonists. I don't think you have to run meddling AND canonist. I think one of the 2 is enough and meddling mage is the better one IMO against sneak n show etc...
you could remove 2 canonists and a bojuka bog for 3 extractions or you could remove 2 ethersworns for a scavenging ooze and another piece of grave hate?
I do like having Bojuka Bog in there because it's tutorable with Knight. So I'm thinking -2 Canonist, +1 Scavenging Ooze and +1 Tormod's Crypt. Does that sound okay? My only concern would be that it might be a bit slower than 3 Extractions, in which case I could be persuaded to go that route.
Do you really need 2 Karakas? You have Knight to fetch it up. I'm guessing you're wanting a spare in case the first one gets Wasted?
Yes. But I have been thinking of replacing it with a Maze of Ith. However, is 22 lands + Maze enough?
I'm thinking of putting together a Bant list. I'm not planning on going the Blouses/Hexproof route right now, but I saw the discussion on it a page back and I'm thinking wouldn't Riding the Dilu Horse be a good addition? It's not a permanent, but its effect lasts indefinitely, and it effectively makes your guy unblockable, even to fliers.
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Knight gives us more mid to late game power along with utility for searching up Maze, Karakas, Wastelands.
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
I think I need to add a couple more ponders to help fuel Goyf without relying solely on my opponent. Any ideas on what I could drop.
Hmm yea I guess that could come out. I'm thinking 1 land and 1 spell pierce. 22 land should be good with 4 Brainstorm and 3 Ponder. I'll run 1 dryad arbor as well so I can fetch for a land with a Zenith if needed.
i dont have an updated decklist for Cb BANT. but this is the deck i had before and my teammate played it for me because i got sick before GP manila started. he went top 16th in a tournament of 105 people i think. I dont have KOTR before as well, we used Rhox warmonk, whichever is effective for you. feel free to test it.
3 spellpierce
4 counterbalance
3 sensei's divining top
1 sylvan library
3 knight of the reliquary
3 vendilion clique
4 noble heirarch
3 stoneforge mystic
1 umezawa's jitte
1 batterskull
4 swords to plowshares
4 brainstorm
1 karakas
4 misty rainforest
4 flooded strand
3 tundra
3 tropical island
1 plains
1 forest
2 island
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 qasali pridemage
3 ethersworn cannonist
3 Rhox Warmonk
3 Mindbreak trap
Mind the list, it doesnt have a "toolbox" like any other CB decks, its because Bant Runs Green, so its "Creature permanent" based not "non-creature permanent" based
My opinion is based on the older meta though.
most likely, this list would promise you a Game 1 win in a match because of its heavy control.
Game 2 can be tricky, normally, we'd board out cliques, and board in pridemages or anything that fits your perception. But since meta has changed. i think we should board out force of will. and add life linkers.
hope this helps.
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
I also like the idea of JTMS but i preffer Elspeth, knight-errant because it can generate creatures and can make batterskull even scarrier. i say 1 of elspeth and 1 JTMS.
daze seems cool, i just dont like how it delays me most of the time.
sideboard would always depend on the meta and how you intercept it. so i think i dont have any argument with that.
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
I do agree about the equipment though, 3 is a bit much.
You don't want to be going with Daze in this kind of list, as the tempo disruption it causes you is big. Instead I would play 3 Snares. I could actually see dropping the mana dorks all together and just playing say 3 Kotr, 2 Rhox, and 3 SFM. When playing CB, you're going heavy control, and you'd rather leave up U for a counter than drop a dork. Rhox is really powerful, so I think I'd at least test a few of him in the main. Don't forget you will not nessissarily be cracking you're fetches right away and that you don't have wasteland, so KotR will be growing slower than normal lists.
Not sure how I feel about both a CB and a SFM package. I can't help but feel you want to have more versatility in the main, the kind that ET can give you. Plus ET synergises with CB.
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Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Bant CB
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Rhox War Monk
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Counterbalance
3 Counterspell
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
This list has 9 2 CMC cards, plus plenty of other md counters. My rationale on Daze is as follows. Daze is best T1/2. Daze slows down you're deck if you are playing 20 or more lands. The key card in this deck, CB, takes two mana and is a conditional counter for everything. Unless you are dropping a T2 CB, I see Daze as too much of a liability. You rarely want to cast it T1, which is why I decided to drop the dorks and up the 1 CMC instants. Remember, you are control not tempo. Sure, Snare is narrow, but it's such a powerful card and relevant vs most every deck.
Not sure how I missed the Wastelands lol. I tried to fit Clique in but it didn't really work.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Green Sun's Zenith - in my opinion, i think this tech does not fit in CB bant. because it doesnt benefit you when top decking. i'd rather move him on the sideboard... btw. do you have any results from your first list? i think that list is better than this one, minus feast and famine.
why did you remove daze? its actually insanely good for Cb decks, but i just dont feel like using it.
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
As for GSZ, I will run 3 because ooze is such an important creature to have out. (might even run 2 oozes)
other than that, I was wondering if you guys think I should run spell snares?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10243724#post10243724
Hexproof, plus auras and exalted triggers with Daze/Spell Pierce backup sounds like a better plan than old school bant.
Awesome Presence seems pretty legit actually. The thing is, it's gotta be better than Jitte AND compensate for the versatility of a SFM package. Which it doesn't IMO.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Heirarch
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Arbor
Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Spell Pierce
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Land
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
2 Windswept Heath
2 Karakas
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Path to Exile
1 Trygon Predator
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Bojuka Bog
WBGJunk TokensGBW
Multiplayer:
WWWLuminarch StonebladeWWW
BBBMono-Black ControlBBB
GRGKessig PredatorsGRG
Anyway, this is how my sideboard has shaped up after your advice:
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Krosan Grip
1 Energy Flux
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Trygon Predator
1 Bojuka Bog
Decided to go with COP: Red over my usual choice of Warmth because of its dual function of negating Progenitus. Really wanted to fit Surgical Extraction in there somewhere, but I can't find room. How's it look?
WBGJunk TokensGBW
Multiplayer:
WWWLuminarch StonebladeWWW
BBBMono-Black ControlBBB
GRGKessig PredatorsGRG
Do you really need 2 Karakas? You have Knight to fetch it up. I'm guessing you're wanting a spare in case the first one gets Wasted?
I do like having Bojuka Bog in there because it's tutorable with Knight. So I'm thinking -2 Canonist, +1 Scavenging Ooze and +1 Tormod's Crypt. Does that sound okay? My only concern would be that it might be a bit slower than 3 Extractions, in which case I could be persuaded to go that route.
Yes. But I have been thinking of replacing it with a Maze of Ith. However, is 22 lands + Maze enough?
WBGJunk TokensGBW
Multiplayer:
WWWLuminarch StonebladeWWW
BBBMono-Black ControlBBB
GRGKessig PredatorsGRG
When I ran this deck I had 1 Karakas, 1 Maze. I don't recall the exact land count, though. I'd have to dig through this thread to find my old list.
Rhox Faithmender
(3W Rhino Monk, Rare, 1/5 Lifelink, If you would gain life, you gain twice that much life instead)
Can this find a place in Bant? Double Lifelink and flexible and reasonable casting cost. Seems awesome as a Sword-carrier!
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