I play with 7 or 8 POX, but never less then 7. I like it very much and is very fun to play. I have a full playset of Cursed Scroll but I think that The Rack is much better. I tried online the list of Duke Reid and some other with much more control, I tried Loam Pox and Entomb Pox and at the end I always prefer to play 8 POX Agroo:D
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The Izmagnus are the most powerful members of the Izmundi
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes Commander: Locust God
Dredge currently has 7 slots in my SB (4 crypt and 3 Leylines....). But thinking about it, dont the same cards that hurt dredge also make High Tide have some issue?
I drop crypt and midcombo if he casts Time Spiral, I can eat his graveyard up, which can possibly make it harder for him and make it more likely for him to fizzle.
6 is not heavy at all. Usually I side in all 6 when playing against Reanimator.
I really have to get at least one into starting hand in fear of Iona.
Poxes, Smallpoxes and Hymns are almost useless against them.
I haven't played against Dredge with my 8Pox yet, but I'm sure its a good thing to have some replacements in SB for totally dead mainboard cards.
@ Teacher RL
Your list is same as mine except for -1 Spinning Darkness, -1 I.Blood and -1 Urborg, ToY How has it worked for you?
I haven't tested at all lately, thanks to my friends who's got something else to do
My list it's same that yours because it is based in your list that is in post #3427 (pag. 229) and in the list of Jin15 that is in post #3429 in the same page. I created a middle rage in your lists that work very well for me. I never take it out in a big tournament because at the same time I build one burn deck and at the end I choose always the burn to go to tournaments. I play with it a lot online and like I said I prefer it to entomb, loam pox and the less creature version with cursed scroll and sinkhole. I had play many times against this decks in mirror and usual this list with more creatures is much better (win more).
The rack is always a good card and Cursed scroll can be a dead card. This type of list can have a good use from the cards in Graveyard and at the same time is not a extended use that make our opponent to side in a great hate against it. If they make it we can always go to rack plan.
Usual I see people sideboard in Leyline of sanctity against discard decks and I like this version because Pox, Liliana, smallpox, Rack, and the creatures are cards that can play around and are in a big number in my deck.
Dredge is a weird first game, but is very easy to destroy their bridges. In second game I side in Leyline and extirpate (Iona kill monoblack version with a smile).
I forget in my last post that I in some times play with Deathmark in my sideboard and I like it very much:)
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The Izmagnus are the most powerful members of the Izmundi
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Dredge currently has 7 slots in my SB (4 crypt and 3 Leylines....). But thinking about it, dont the same cards that hurt dredge also make High Tide have some issue?
I drop crypt and midcombo if he casts Time Spiral, I can eat his graveyard up, which can possibly make it harder for him and make it more likely for him to fizzle.
am i wrong in my thinking?
I play High Tide as well. Eating the graveyard mid-combo is only a minor impediment: the effect will be to put the High Tide pilot on the Brain Freeze plan, since generating the mana required for a huge Blue Sun's Zenith is now impossible.
One possible move is to Extirpate the Cunning Wish. Some lists do not run a main deck win condition. In game 2, if you have Extirpated a High Tide already, the next target must be Cunning Wish: the Tide pilot is planning to fetch the High Tide he just sided out for just this scenario.
Attacking the hand and land as aggressively as possible (in that order, IMHO) might carry the day: don't be disappointed if something gets Forced. Every blue card pitched carries a cost. Even pitching the wrong card to Force can cost the Tides pilot the match.
If multiple High Tides have resolved and you get a chance to Extirpate, choose Cunning Wish. One of those early FoW pitch candidates is the main deck Blue Suns Zenith!
I play High Tide as well. Eating the graveyard mid-combo is only a minor impediment: the effect will be to put the High Tide pilot on the Brain Freeze plan, since generating the mana required for a huge Blue Sun's Zenith is now impossible.
One possible move is to Extirpate the Cunning Wish. Some lists do not run a main deck win condition. In game 2, if you have Extirpated a High Tide already, the next target must be Cunning Wish: the Tide pilot is planning to fetch the High Tide he just sided out for just this scenario.
Attacking the hand and land as aggressively as possible (in that order, IMHO) might carry the day: don't be disappointed if something gets Forced. Every blue card pitched carries a cost. Even pitching the wrong card to Force can cost the Tides pilot the match.
If multiple High Tides have resolved and you get a chance to Extirpate, choose Cunning Wish. One of those early FoW pitch candidates is the main deck Blue Suns Zenith!
So Cunning Wish is a crux and a card I should go after if I can?
I unfortunatly cannot get any by wednsday, do you think I could handle High Tide with my deck?
What decks would give my list troubles. Im thinking that I'll be in trouble against REST (Think a hybrid of Reanimator and SnT with a countersuite.)
So Cunning Wish is a crux and a card I should go after if I can?
I unfortunatly cannot get any by wednsday, do you think I could handle High Tide with my deck?
Below I blather on about your match against High Tide. Not that I'm really an expert.
Against High Tide with your list, I predict a swingy match. If you didn't know what you were up against and kept a hand with mostly sacrifice effects and insufficient hand disruption, it will probably not end well. Brainstorm provides them with some cover against the assault, not a lot but sometimes enough. Tombstalker might give you a fast enough clock to get there if you can keep up the disruption.
Obviously public enemy #1 in this match is High Tide. However, Cunning Wish is a legitimate secondary target. Whether to run a maindeck win condition is a matter of some controversy among High Tide players. If they're packing Candelabra of Tawnos, don't worry about trying to take out Cunning Wish: they definitely have a maindeck Blue Sun's Zenith with your name on it. The player will usually use the first Blue Sun's Zenith to draw the whole deck, then Ponder it up as the last card, build a ton of mana and aim the next one at you.
Not everyone plays with Candles though, since they are pretty pricey, and without the huge mana boost they provide, the maindeck Blue Sun's Zenith loses a lot of its utility. It becomes a gamble: one might not get any untap effects in the 5-7 cards one draws off it, and then finding it again is difficult. So, the Candle-less player will generally either put in a MD Remand+Brain Freeze (which is effective but ugly) or not play a MD win condition at all, and win off of Cunning Wish for Brain Freeze and a higher storm count.
Nobody really plays Meddling Mage any more, and the Cunning Wish move is more fashionable than the Remand / Brain Freeze thing. Not without reason: Remand is a terrible counterspell in Legacy, so it plus Brain Freeze are basically dead cards until you reach Storm 8. To maindeck them both is to raise one's fizzle percentage by a certain amount.
So, I'm not saying it's going to work all the time, and if the other guy is packing Candles then don't even bother. If you see Candles, the secondary target is Time Spiral.
On the other hand you might pull out a Dark Ritual, a Hymn to Tourach, an Inquisition, and basically any other discard effect. High Tide is not resilient enough to withstand that level of disruption.
High tide is beatable as pox, but you need two things to go about it. Discard and LD. High tide needs enough lands to go off, so if you can slow down their clock by blowing them up and eat away at their hand, you can force most players into trying to combo out when they're not ready.
It's a combo deck though, so you have to expect to randomly lose sometimes, because that's what combo decks do.
It seems everyone is running Inquisition of Kozilek over Thoughseize. Is there a reason for that or is it just because Thoughtsieze costs $$$? Also, what are people's thoughts on Sinkhole? If you run a few copies alongside Wasteland it seems that your opponent's land base would be pretty devistated.
IoK hits everything that we need it to hit. Everything over 3cc ideally wont get cast anyway, and they can go ahead and FoW anything of mine (1 free discard for us).
Sinkhole + Wasteland sees a lot of play in top Pox builds.
I have always had a soft spot for Land destruction type control in magic, so I'll probably never take apart my pox or my stax decks anytime soon.
I have thought about doing a sideboard where its one of those "in addition to" sideboards, like, pox uses creature removal, land destruction, hand disruption, so the sideboard allows me to nab more discard if necessary, more removal if necessary, or more land destruction if necessary. So far I've toyed with Sideboard Spinning darkness - Duress - Rain of tears and since some graveyard hate is helpful against dredge and reanimator and company, or something annoying like recurring bloodghast's, Surgical Extraction is nice.
Also I maindeck 4 bojuka bog and that has been super awesome! especially since I almost always play against a regular who pushes RUG very consistently as of late, its nice to keep those goyf's and mongoose's small when you're waiting for some more removal/answers! (also if you get stuck with 2 nether spirits and you don't want to risk 2 in the graveyard because of what you're playing against, you can bojuka bog one away when its safe!)
if i get more than one, it all depends, from an early start against something fast it can be annoying to have to play around your own stuff, and as far as what i'd take out to bring in the rain of tears, it depends on what im going against, if they have little in the way of creatures, i go down on creature removal, since i have innocent blood / liliana / small pox / pox (i still run 2) / cursed scroll / nether spirit & mishra's factory which can all answer creatures on top of the discard you have that can nail problematic creatures you don't even want hitting the field.
other times ill shave 1 of's if i feel im still ok, like 1 cursed scroll (run 3 total), 1 nether spirit (run 3 total) 1 pox (run 2 total) and or whatever I feel i can do when i look at "shaving" some 1 of's. It all depends on what I'm going against. Though I bring in spinning darkness (especially against fast creature strategies like dump your hand affinity) and the duress (against combo the most to just attack their hand that much more) much more than i bring in rain of tears. I have rancid earth, but I haven't pushed that since the 1 damage can also hit me so i sorta forgot about it, I can see looking at that again since it, with threshold, can do more than 1 thing in your favor. Usually liliana of the veil's ultimate is just enough to keep them low enough on lands that I am "usually" ok there.
Sinkhole seems to be disliked by the majority because it puts you in a more control-ish position whilst on the other hand also sinks holes in wallets when played alongside with Wastelands aka. where they only make sense. They are also counterproductive to lists that ran The Rack. However, I feel the LD-route is one of the strongest aspects in Pox-decks as you usually have more LD than opponents having lands which lets yourself grind them out with ease.
I dunno I run a playset of sinkholes myself, and I never really ran into a problem with an opponent having too many cards in their hand. The problem I think, is people think that running sinkhole and wasteland is a land denial strategy... but it really isn't. What it really is doing is denying specific lands. Like, say you're playing sneak and show. You're not trying to destroy all of their lands, just Volcanic Islands. Against 12-post you're killing cloudpost. Against combo... well, in that case killing as many lands as possible *is* a valid strategy.
Tl;dr if you try to deny lands entirely you'll end up losing, but if you try to deny the important lands it really shuts down your opponent.
I dunno I run a playset of sinkholes myself, and I never really ran into a problem with an opponent having too many cards in their hand. The problem I think, is people think that running sinkhole and wasteland is a land denial strategy... but it really isn't. What it really is doing is denying specific lands. Like, say you're playing sneak and show. You're not trying to destroy all of their lands, just Volcanic Islands. Against 12-post you're killing cloudpost. Against combo... well, in that case killing as many lands as possible *is* a valid strategy.
Tl;dr if you try to deny lands entirely you'll end up losing, but if you try to deny the important lands it really shuts down your opponent.
This is the same type of strategy I use in other decks with GQ and Crucible. Really Funny when I nuke someones swamps and there running a chains deck
Im thinking about putting some money into the deck and im wondering which is a better idea in my deck: Nether Void or The Abyss?
That's a tough choice. Nether Void has better art: The Abyss has a Renan quote. I'd say The Abyss, if you're prepared to read some of Renan's work (or already have) so that you can expound on what he means here, compounding the already over-the-top effects of the card itself with the metagame assault of distracting information.
I mean, who knew one could tap 4 black and get French humanism?
If I were in a position to put that kind of money into the deck, I think I might personally be tempted by the Tabernacles. Probably not for a few months. Last month I splurged on Candles for my High Tide deck.
I actually say Nether Void.
If they're in top deck mode and you have a Rack out, what are they gonna do? They most likely have to drop every land they rip just to be able to play anything they playable they do draw. It's like a softlock to make sure you secure the victory. I'd even say it's a win-more card, but cmon. haha
The Abyss, although almost as equally awesome, I don't think would be an issue to play against.
Ideally you want both, one MB one SB, but my vote goes to Void if you can only get one right now.
Just my opinion though! Lormador's is just as respectable imo, he's posted decent stuff here, knows what's up.
I have Tabernacles. It was a christmas present to myself as it was 250 and was NM-.... and thats me being harsh on grading it....
Im thinking I'll go with which one I see for a good price first, but im leaning slightly towards void because it puts pressure on them. I think we aim to control what our foe can do and while killing a creature is very good, making it more prisonish really can punish people for misplaying and people usually misplay under pressure.
That's a tough choice. Nether Void has better art: The Abyss has a Renan quote. I'd say The Abyss, if you're prepared to read some of Renan's work (or already have) so that you can expound on what he means here, compounding the already over-the-top effects of the card itself with the metagame assault of distracting information.
I mean, who knew one could tap 4 black and get French humanism?
If I were in a position to put that kind of money into the deck, I think I might personally be tempted by the Tabernacles. Probably not for a few months. Last month I splurged on Candles for my High Tide deck.
I just wanted to say that this post made my day. As for the void versus abyss, it sounds pretty meta dependent to me. I know around here I would use the abyss, because most of my opponents are playing a small number of powerful 1 or 2 drops, and the sac every turn could shut most of them down.
I just wanted to say that this post made my day. As for the void versus abyss, it sounds pretty meta dependent to me. I know around here I would use the abyss, because most of my opponents are playing a small number of powerful 1 or 2 drops, and the sac every turn could shut most of them down.
Yeah if you play in a meta like that, Abyss would be the better option.
But Nether Void is more of a 'catch all' imo. It hurts a lot of things, even the decks that The Abyss does.
i honestly don't think that the meta makes much difference i think nether void just requires more tinkering within your own deck. as a fore mentioned though, i am a big fan of tabernacle in the deck, entomb allows you search it up and put it into play off a LftL or crucible but that is also very reliant on the build of your deck. so i really would want to say you should think less about meta for the one card but rather which card best accentuates your deck.
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my favorite win ever was using icequake in a POX deck and actually killing someone with a snow-covered-plains
Tomorrow I will play in a Legacy GPT Ghent event with my burn and I friend of mine will play with my Pox. I think I want made some changes, like put cursed scroll, and funeral charm. I will try to copy his list and the place and put here latter.
Edit - After all, my friend took another deck, so anything to do.
Aight, I'm thinking about trading in some cards to SCG, for $55 (should be).
I figured, it would be best to put it into my pox deck, but I'm not exactly sure what to grab.
Liliana of the Veil. Tombstalker will move in and out, depending on your mood, sometimes occupying the maindeck, sometimes the sideboard. The others are necessary sideboard cards, except Surgical Extraction: I really think it's worth it to go for Extirpate instead.
Liliana of the Veil, on the other hand, once installed in the deck, never comes out. She works especially well with your main win condition: The Rack. You're already running Dark Ritual too!
It's not a difficult choice at all, your deck is perfect for Liliana. It's like a Raven's Crime that you can retrace with any card, doesn't require the graveyard to work, can also Diabolic Edict multiple times, is free to use, and will occasionally force the opponent to choose between his lands and all his other permanents. Why, just yesterday I used a Turn 1 Liliana to ultimate twice against Countertop (which did in fact have Counterbalance and the Top active 2 turns later): I was well on my way to a 3rd when the other guy scooped. I think his deck had only a few lands left.
-1 Raven's Crime -2 Necroplasm -1 Innocent Blood (move to sideboard) +4 Liliana, that's my advice.
Personally I do almost all my shopping at cardkingdom. The only thing SCG has had that they didn't have, so far, is that foil Lorwyn swamp with all the flowers.
Thanks for your valued input Lormador.
But wouldn't I replace my Pox's with Lili? Are you the one who runs a set of Lili and Pox together? haha That just seems like overkill to me. haha
Edit:
Also, I can't get the Liliana's and the SB cards right now, it'd have to be one or the other. I don't think I can scrape up any more cards to pitch.
Also also, Card Kingdom actually has Scrolls! Hmmm.
Ah sorry, I didn't see the 4 Poxes somehow. You can cut those to 2 and keep 2 of the other cards I mentioned. I'm not a huge fan of Necroplasm, but if he's working for you, go with it.
I run 3 Poxes now, because my build needs the mass disruption: I have Wasteland, Sinkhole, and Crucible of Worlds. Your deck attacks two resources very effectively: hand and creatures. My deck attempts to attack three resources: hand, creatures, and land. It's necessarily going to have to get more raw disruption with a smaller card investment. Pox fits the bill.
Pox adds immense power to Sinkhole. If the other guy has 4 lands, Sinkhole is just about useless by itself. On the other hand, if I Pox first, any other LD at all will put him down to 1 land: and it's not entirely unlikely that I will have both a Sinkhole and a Smallpox after that.
I had cut down on the Pox count, since Liliana did sort of the same thing only better (when I was trying to disrupt hand+creatures). Now that I'm attacking mana as well, Pox's stock has risen though I certainly am not turning in my Lilianas.
The other thing that's nice about destroying land is that the other guy tends to get some cards in hand. Thus, topdecked discard spells have more life.
Still, I'm not convinced that attacking the land this much is really the best way to go. Sure, there are some blowout games when you destroy the precious 2 lands in the hand that they kept. Then again, it's much tougher to disrupt 3 things at the same time than it was to disrupt 2 things at the same time.
Plus cardkingdom is, you know, cheaper than SCG. Look for fairly large retailers that don't have a presence on magiccards.info. They have the best prices. I mean, if we're not shopping at our LGS, we might as well go all the way.
1 Nether Spirit
4 Bloodghast
Planeswalker
4 Liliana of the Veil
Spells
4 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Spinning Darkness
4 Innocent Blood
4 Dark Ritual
4 The Rack
Lands:
14 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Null Rod
3 Pithing Needle
3 Extirpate
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Engineered Plague
In mainboard sometimes I play with Tomstalker, Necroplasm, Darkblast, Bojuka Bog, Dakmor Salvage and I like to replace Spinning Darkness for Smother or Ghastly Demise, but I haven't this cards yet. Sometimes I play Darkblast in that spot.
In sideboard sometimes I play with Ratchet Bomb, Syphon Life, Duress, Spinning Darkness, Ensnaring Bridge, Tomstalker and Nihil Spellbomb.
I play with 7 or 8 POX, but never less then 7. I like it very much and is very fun to play. I have a full playset of Cursed Scroll but I think that The Rack is much better. I tried online the list of Duke Reid and some other with much more control, I tried Loam Pox and Entomb Pox and at the end I always prefer to play 8 POX Agroo:D
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual
4 Inquisition of Kozliek
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Funeral Charm
3 Innocent Blood
1 Darkblast
1 Entomb
1 Pox
2 Tombstalker
4 The Rack
16 Swamp
3 Bojuka Bog
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Duress
2 Infest
2 Necroplasm
3 Leyline of the Void
Dredge currently has 7 slots in my SB (4 crypt and 3 Leylines....). But thinking about it, dont the same cards that hurt dredge also make High Tide have some issue?
I drop crypt and midcombo if he casts Time Spiral, I can eat his graveyard up, which can possibly make it harder for him and make it more likely for him to fizzle.
am i wrong in my thinking?
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyMy list it's same that yours because it is based in your list that is in post #3427 (pag. 229) and in the list of Jin15 that is in post #3429 in the same page. I created a middle rage in your lists that work very well for me. I never take it out in a big tournament because at the same time I build one burn deck and at the end I choose always the burn to go to tournaments. I play with it a lot online and like I said I prefer it to entomb, loam pox and the less creature version with cursed scroll and sinkhole. I had play many times against this decks in mirror and usual this list with more creatures is much better (win more).
The rack is always a good card and Cursed scroll can be a dead card. This type of list can have a good use from the cards in Graveyard and at the same time is not a extended use that make our opponent to side in a great hate against it. If they make it we can always go to rack plan.
Usual I see people sideboard in Leyline of sanctity against discard decks and I like this version because Pox, Liliana, smallpox, Rack, and the creatures are cards that can play around and are in a big number in my deck.
Dredge is a weird first game, but is very easy to destroy their bridges. In second game I side in Leyline and extirpate (Iona kill monoblack version with a smile).
I forget in my last post that I in some times play with Deathmark in my sideboard and I like it very much:)
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
1 Nether Spirit
4 Bloodghast
Spells:
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Innocent Blood
2 Raven's Crime
2 Funeral Charm
1 Darkblast
2 Cursed Sroll
4 The Rack
Lands:
12 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Duress
3 Perish
2 Syphon Life
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Infest
3 Surgical Extraction
Ended up going 7-1 across two days not counting byes.
Played rug a bunch of times, sneak and show twice, high tide, ANT and BUG.
I play High Tide as well. Eating the graveyard mid-combo is only a minor impediment: the effect will be to put the High Tide pilot on the Brain Freeze plan, since generating the mana required for a huge Blue Sun's Zenith is now impossible.
One possible move is to Extirpate the Cunning Wish. Some lists do not run a main deck win condition. In game 2, if you have Extirpated a High Tide already, the next target must be Cunning Wish: the Tide pilot is planning to fetch the High Tide he just sided out for just this scenario.
Attacking the hand and land as aggressively as possible (in that order, IMHO) might carry the day: don't be disappointed if something gets Forced. Every blue card pitched carries a cost. Even pitching the wrong card to Force can cost the Tides pilot the match.
If multiple High Tides have resolved and you get a chance to Extirpate, choose Cunning Wish. One of those early FoW pitch candidates is the main deck Blue Suns Zenith!
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
So Cunning Wish is a crux and a card I should go after if I can?
I unfortunatly cannot get any by wednsday, do you think I could handle High Tide with my deck?
What decks would give my list troubles. Im thinking that I'll be in trouble against REST (Think a hybrid of Reanimator and SnT with a countersuite.)
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyBelow I blather on about your match against High Tide. Not that I'm really an expert.
Obviously public enemy #1 in this match is High Tide. However, Cunning Wish is a legitimate secondary target. Whether to run a maindeck win condition is a matter of some controversy among High Tide players. If they're packing Candelabra of Tawnos, don't worry about trying to take out Cunning Wish: they definitely have a maindeck Blue Sun's Zenith with your name on it. The player will usually use the first Blue Sun's Zenith to draw the whole deck, then Ponder it up as the last card, build a ton of mana and aim the next one at you.
Not everyone plays with Candles though, since they are pretty pricey, and without the huge mana boost they provide, the maindeck Blue Sun's Zenith loses a lot of its utility. It becomes a gamble: one might not get any untap effects in the 5-7 cards one draws off it, and then finding it again is difficult. So, the Candle-less player will generally either put in a MD Remand+Brain Freeze (which is effective but ugly) or not play a MD win condition at all, and win off of Cunning Wish for Brain Freeze and a higher storm count.
Nobody really plays Meddling Mage any more, and the Cunning Wish move is more fashionable than the Remand / Brain Freeze thing. Not without reason: Remand is a terrible counterspell in Legacy, so it plus Brain Freeze are basically dead cards until you reach Storm 8. To maindeck them both is to raise one's fizzle percentage by a certain amount.
So, I'm not saying it's going to work all the time, and if the other guy is packing Candles then don't even bother. If you see Candles, the secondary target is Time Spiral.
On the other hand you might pull out a Dark Ritual, a Hymn to Tourach, an Inquisition, and basically any other discard effect. High Tide is not resilient enough to withstand that level of disruption.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
It's a combo deck though, so you have to expect to randomly lose sometimes, because that's what combo decks do.
RBurn
G Agro Elves
Sinkhole + Wasteland sees a lot of play in top Pox builds.
Legacy: Pox | Tiny Leaders: Thalia Hatebears
I have thought about doing a sideboard where its one of those "in addition to" sideboards, like, pox uses creature removal, land destruction, hand disruption, so the sideboard allows me to nab more discard if necessary, more removal if necessary, or more land destruction if necessary. So far I've toyed with Sideboard Spinning darkness - Duress - Rain of tears and since some graveyard hate is helpful against dredge and reanimator and company, or something annoying like recurring bloodghast's, Surgical Extraction is nice.
Also I maindeck 4 bojuka bog and that has been super awesome! especially since I almost always play against a regular who pushes RUG very consistently as of late, its nice to keep those goyf's and mongoose's small when you're waiting for some more removal/answers! (also if you get stuck with 2 nether spirits and you don't want to risk 2 in the graveyard because of what you're playing against, you can bojuka bog one away when its safe!)
other times ill shave 1 of's if i feel im still ok, like 1 cursed scroll (run 3 total), 1 nether spirit (run 3 total) 1 pox (run 2 total) and or whatever I feel i can do when i look at "shaving" some 1 of's. It all depends on what I'm going against. Though I bring in spinning darkness (especially against fast creature strategies like dump your hand affinity) and the duress (against combo the most to just attack their hand that much more) much more than i bring in rain of tears. I have rancid earth, but I haven't pushed that since the 1 damage can also hit me so i sorta forgot about it, I can see looking at that again since it, with threshold, can do more than 1 thing in your favor. Usually liliana of the veil's ultimate is just enough to keep them low enough on lands that I am "usually" ok there.
I dunno I run a playset of sinkholes myself, and I never really ran into a problem with an opponent having too many cards in their hand. The problem I think, is people think that running sinkhole and wasteland is a land denial strategy... but it really isn't. What it really is doing is denying specific lands. Like, say you're playing sneak and show. You're not trying to destroy all of their lands, just Volcanic Islands. Against 12-post you're killing cloudpost. Against combo... well, in that case killing as many lands as possible *is* a valid strategy.
Tl;dr if you try to deny lands entirely you'll end up losing, but if you try to deny the important lands it really shuts down your opponent.
This is the same type of strategy I use in other decks with GQ and Crucible. Really Funny when I nuke someones swamps and there running a chains deck
Im thinking about putting some money into the deck and im wondering which is a better idea in my deck: Nether Void or The Abyss?
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyI mean, who knew one could tap 4 black and get French humanism?
If I were in a position to put that kind of money into the deck, I think I might personally be tempted by the Tabernacles. Probably not for a few months. Last month I splurged on Candles for my High Tide deck.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
If they're in top deck mode and you have a Rack out, what are they gonna do? They most likely have to drop every land they rip just to be able to play anything they playable they do draw. It's like a softlock to make sure you secure the victory. I'd even say it's a win-more card, but cmon. haha
The Abyss, although almost as equally awesome, I don't think would be an issue to play against.
Ideally you want both, one MB one SB, but my vote goes to Void if you can only get one right now.
Just my opinion though! Lormador's is just as respectable imo, he's posted decent stuff here, knows what's up.
Legacy: Pox | Tiny Leaders: Thalia Hatebears
Im thinking I'll go with which one I see for a good price first, but im leaning slightly towards void because it puts pressure on them. I think we aim to control what our foe can do and while killing a creature is very good, making it more prisonish really can punish people for misplaying and people usually misplay under pressure.
I know I do.....
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyI just wanted to say that this post made my day. As for the void versus abyss, it sounds pretty meta dependent to me. I know around here I would use the abyss, because most of my opponents are playing a small number of powerful 1 or 2 drops, and the sac every turn could shut most of them down.
Yeah if you play in a meta like that, Abyss would be the better option.
But Nether Void is more of a 'catch all' imo. It hurts a lot of things, even the decks that The Abyss does.
Legacy: Pox | Tiny Leaders: Thalia Hatebears
Edit - After all, my friend took another deck, so anything to do.
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
I figured, it would be best to put it into my pox deck, but I'm not exactly sure what to grab.
So far I've come up with 2 choices:
1.) 3 Liliana of the Veil
And my brother has a 4th.
2.) 2 Tombstalker
3 Perish
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction
(Would've put Cursed Scrolls in here, but of course SCG is sold out..)
Here's my current list for reference.
2 Nether Spirit
4 Pox
4 Smallpox
1 Darkblast
1 Raven's Crime
1 Spinning Darkness
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 The Rack
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Innocent Blood
4 Funeral Charm
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Tomb of Urami
14 Swamp
3 Spinning Darkness
4 Duress
4 Engineered Explosives
4 Nihil Spellbomb
Or yet another option, I could build one of a few cheap decks I've wanted to for a while; 10 Land Stompy, Forgotten Orb, or NinjaStill. haha
I'm soooo indecisive about everything, this is torture for me. haha
Help me out fellas.
Legacy: Pox | Tiny Leaders: Thalia Hatebears
Liliana of the Veil, on the other hand, once installed in the deck, never comes out. She works especially well with your main win condition: The Rack. You're already running Dark Ritual too!
It's not a difficult choice at all, your deck is perfect for Liliana. It's like a Raven's Crime that you can retrace with any card, doesn't require the graveyard to work, can also Diabolic Edict multiple times, is free to use, and will occasionally force the opponent to choose between his lands and all his other permanents. Why, just yesterday I used a Turn 1 Liliana to ultimate twice against Countertop (which did in fact have Counterbalance and the Top active 2 turns later): I was well on my way to a 3rd when the other guy scooped. I think his deck had only a few lands left.
-1 Raven's Crime -2 Necroplasm -1 Innocent Blood (move to sideboard) +4 Liliana, that's my advice.
Personally I do almost all my shopping at cardkingdom. The only thing SCG has had that they didn't have, so far, is that foil Lorwyn swamp with all the flowers.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
But wouldn't I replace my Pox's with Lili? Are you the one who runs a set of Lili and Pox together? haha That just seems like overkill to me. haha
Edit:
Also, I can't get the Liliana's and the SB cards right now, it'd have to be one or the other. I don't think I can scrape up any more cards to pitch.
Also also, Card Kingdom actually has Scrolls! Hmmm.
Legacy: Pox | Tiny Leaders: Thalia Hatebears
I run 3 Poxes now, because my build needs the mass disruption: I have Wasteland, Sinkhole, and Crucible of Worlds. Your deck attacks two resources very effectively: hand and creatures. My deck attempts to attack three resources: hand, creatures, and land. It's necessarily going to have to get more raw disruption with a smaller card investment. Pox fits the bill.
Pox adds immense power to Sinkhole. If the other guy has 4 lands, Sinkhole is just about useless by itself. On the other hand, if I Pox first, any other LD at all will put him down to 1 land: and it's not entirely unlikely that I will have both a Sinkhole and a Smallpox after that.
I had cut down on the Pox count, since Liliana did sort of the same thing only better (when I was trying to disrupt hand+creatures). Now that I'm attacking mana as well, Pox's stock has risen though I certainly am not turning in my Lilianas.
The other thing that's nice about destroying land is that the other guy tends to get some cards in hand. Thus, topdecked discard spells have more life.
Still, I'm not convinced that attacking the land this much is really the best way to go. Sure, there are some blowout games when you destroy the precious 2 lands in the hand that they kept. Then again, it's much tougher to disrupt 3 things at the same time than it was to disrupt 2 things at the same time.
Plus cardkingdom is, you know, cheaper than SCG. Look for fairly large retailers that don't have a presence on magiccards.info. They have the best prices. I mean, if we're not shopping at our LGS, we might as well go all the way.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730