Tap island for U.
Use Minamo's ability targetting Minamo.
On resolution, Minamo is tapped and because of that, it will untap.
Repeat for every island you have basically giving you:
1X, Wake Trasher gets +X/+X untill EOT.
Use only U to pay X.
I would much rather have Minamo taken out with Wasteland than Mutavault.
Minamo is really good late game. Give Wake Thrasher that extra push. Its alright early game. Like what MRdown2urth said, I would rather get this legendary land wasted than my Mutavault
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
Tap island for U.
Use Minamo's ability targetting Minamo.
On resolution, Minamo is tapped and because of that, it will untap.
Repeat for every island you have basically giving you:
1X, Wake Trasher gets +X/+X untill EOT.
Use only U to pay X.
So you're running a 1-of card that has synergy with a 2-of in your deck?
The next question being, why Wake Thrasher?
I'd honestly rather run Kira than him. He has no synergy with the rest of the little blue fishy friends, something that, last I heard, tribal decks are usually looking for.
@Tarmogoyf in Merfolk: NO.
Not only are Tundras cheaper than Tropicals, but white opens you up to Sygg, River Guide, Disenchant, and most importantly, Swords to Plowshares
Goyf isn't really an answer to Goyf, anyway. Zoo, Thresh, Goyfsligh, and Eva Green all have built-in methods of killing him, which splashing for him DOESN'T give to Merfolk, especially since most of those decks can end the Goyf wars with a Bolt or a Grim Lavamancer, whereas Swords is a universal answer against just about every creature in the format
@dropping Stifle for Shapesharer
Bad idea. In fact, Shapesharer in general is a pretty bad idea. Stifle is critical against Goblins, stuffing Lackey triggers, making their 3-drops vanilla 1/1's, their 2-drops 2/2 hasters, and their 5-drops a 2/2 that costs 2 mana to throw at something, and for stopping the trigger on Goblin Piledriver, and considering that Goblins are one of our not-so-good matchups...
Stifle is also a star against Ichorid decks, countering the ETB (I feel really wrong using ETB instead of CIP) on Flame-Kin Zealots, giving you an extra turn to come up with an answer.
What's everyone's thoughts on Cosi Trickster? Seems like in certain matchups he'll get really big really quickly. I'm considering running 2.
Also, I've seen a few lists sporting brainstorm over stifles (and sometimes with them as well lately). Anyone tried this and had any success.
I don't get to play Legacy too much, but I'm going tonight and I'm going to retweak my deck. Thinking of cutting tarmogoyfs and tropical islands out and going straight blue main deck, but I'm still not 100% at this stage.
Atm I run them in the side and one tundra in the main. Having green is kinda handy because I really like Krosan Grip from side too, especially with a bit of affinity in the meta. However, I figure if i cut blue, I can always run Hurkyl's Recalls..
Atm I run them in the side and one tundra in the main. Having green is kinda handy because I really like Krosan Grip from side too, especially with a bit of affinity in the meta. However, I figure if i cut blue, I can always run Hurkyl's Recalls..
Recall>Grip vs. affinity, but not so much vs. key MU's like Landstill. 3 colors, no matter how lightly splashed, seems a little extreme. Let us know how it goes.
3 colours wasn't too much of a strain on the deck last time I played it, I ran 5 fetches, 4 tropical island and 1 tundra main deck.
Swords were in side because I was scared of goblins, namely piledriver, but after all that I never played against the deck.
After typing it here, I think I'm going to swap to recall's now regards because it was the affinity deck that I lost to last them and it's an absolute house against them at times.
(However, I just found a D&T list I like and all I need is Karakas' to play it, so I'm still deciding on my deck choice)
Tap island for U.
Use Minamo's ability targetting Minamo.
On resolution, Minamo is tapped and because of that, it will untap.
Repeat for every island you have basically giving you:
1X, Wake Trasher gets +X/+X untill EOT.
Use only U to pay X.
That's pretty pimp. Never heard of the combo, but I like it
That's pretty pimp. Never heard of the combo, but I like it
It's really not though...
I like to have my mana open for casting things more reliable like Lords instead of wasting it on some bum combo that will happen once for every nine times that Minamo gets wasted, losing you a turn of land drops.
It's really not though...
I like to have my mana open for casting things more reliable like Lords instead of wasting it on some bum combo that will happen once for every nine times that Minamo gets wasted, losing you a turn of land drops.
I think it's OK as a one-of.
Against quite a few decks, you are Wastelanding or Stifling their fetch lands. So they are in mana denial anyway. If they blow a fetch on Minamo it is probably better than hitting your Mutavault. Plus it provides blue under Choke.
Why to wasteland their fetches? Isn't it just stupid?
i think it was meant as stifleing the fetches or wastlanding what they get then again there are some ppl stupid enough to not pop a fetchland if you target it with a wasteland
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Insanity is knowing that what you're doing is completely idiotic, but still, somehow, you just can't stop it."
I might rock one swamp like those Eva Green decks do...just so your dual doesn't get hit a Wasteland and leave you hanging to face a Goyf. And to tone down the damage of Price of Progress just a bit.
What makes the black splash better than say the White splash or Green splash? Which matchups are you trying to improve and how would this be better than either of those for improving it?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTG Rules Advisor
I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
What makes the black splash better than say the White splash or Green splash? Which matchups are you trying to improve and how would this be better than either of those for improving it?
2 things,
1 - grats on 300th post
2 - might not be he needs to improve matchups, he wanted to splash black for removal (see Smother in decklist, Thoughtseize, Snuff Out and Tombstalker in the Side) or maybe just as a change of pace. I like to do this with my decks every now and then...keeps the game interesting
Well the reasoning basically boils down to this: white splash is mostly for removal (StP) and green splash is mostly for a fatty (Goyf). Why not combine the two with black (Smother/Snuff Out + Tombstalker)? Sure, I lose stuff like Absolute Law and Krosan Grip, but I do gain things like Thoughtseize and Engineered Plague (should be in the list).
This came about while trying to improve the Zoo matchup, but I still need to do testing to see whether it is better than the alternatives.
Well the reasoning basically boils down to this: white splash is mostly for removal (StP) and green splash is mostly for a fatty (Goyf). Why not combine the two with black (Smother/Snuff Out + Tombstalker)? Sure, I lose stuff like Absolute Law and Krosan Grip, but I do gain things like Thoughtseize and Engineered Plague (should be in the list).
This came about while trying to improve the Zoo matchup, but I still need to do testing to see whether it is better than the alternatives.
I read your posts on the source which is pretty much the same discussion. First I think the 2 black for tombstalker will be tough to get with the 8 colorless. I sometimes have problems getting 2u for Lords and adding in the swamps doesn't make sense imo. He loses to goyf and how many turns till you can get the cards in your gravyard? wake thrasher is pretty good and isn't he just better? 2u can be viled in and pumped with lords.
(for me)
White splash absolute law Good vs anything red. Goblins, Zoo, Thresh disenchant One less than krosan grip but can be countered swords to plowshares 4 in my maindeck. 1 mana seems better than any of the black cards mentioned.
Green Splash Tarmogoyf best creature in legacy but when I tested I always wanted another merfolk instead because he doesn't have islandwalk or help other merfolk. 2 goyfs looking at each other isn't that cool krosan grip good card but I like disenchant better due to the advantages of white sb and 1 less mana.
I didn't see any echoing truth in the main or sb, that would really help vs Zoo. Absolute law stops them from burning your creatures while you will have swords, mind harness and eching truths to help vs zoo. I noticed in the thread at the source that you didn't like threads of disloyalty, I like mind harness better as it can take any of zoo's creatures and only costs 1 mana.
Do you really need to thoughtseize zoo? And having absolute law in your sb instead of Engineered Plague seems more versatile as it helps vs all red matchups.
Snuff Out Can't target black, lose life and need a swamp Thoughtseize Good but really needed???? Smother Seems good, but vs Zoo are the creatures the problem or the burn?? Engineered Plague goblins anything else?? tombstalker sub par creature and is slow. Goyf and thrasher can be viled in.
Just my thoughts and would welcome any arguments. I have been playing merfolk none stop and read all the pages on both sites playing all the different builds. I like white the most because it only needs one white which helps vs mana denial and only time I can beat red is with absolute law. Without the burn killing Lords merfolk get big enough so goyf isn't needed.
From DukeDemonKnight which 100% sums it up
"So I guess my main argument is that black gives you a worse creature than green, and worse removal spells than white"
TeamSorad nails it in that summary...there isn't a need to add another color but if you want to, white does the most. Plus all white splashes are W + x (stp / disenchant / absolute law / etc)
Black doesn't make sense...especially trying to pay for stuff like Tombstalker. He's a BAMF but not in here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I haven't done any testing since last I posted, but I do agree that the black options are subpar compared to the respective white and green options. Again, the reasoning was to get the best of both worlds - although it does become more of a jack of all trades, master of none sort of deal. But the cons probably outweigh the pros. I'll have to keep testing the different options (mono-blue, white splash, green splash, black splash, hey, let's just add red splash while we're at it :D).
I know it is fun to post different builds but I do have a complaint.
Isn't this suppose to be the proven competitive and that is why we have the developing competitive? It seems to clutter up the thread with every 2 posts someone is posting a random deck list or asking if you have tried this. This thread should be used as a tool to get the best Merfolk combination for winning. I only mention this because when I started playing Merfolk I actually read all the pages here and all the 120+ pages at the source. It made it very difficult to go through and find the best combination.
Just my opinion again and I'm not targeting anyone posts, just seems to happen a lot.
What are peoples opinions on mind harness vs threads of disloyalty? I really don't like that threads costs 3 mana and can only target 2 or less. Mind harness does have the upkeep, but it takes 3 turns to cost as much as threads plus it can target all of zoo. Is threads/harness really around for more than 3 turns most of the time anyway? Another major complaint with threads is, turn 3 I have 3 mana and play threads but it gets countered or disenchant etc I have wasted a whole turn. So much tempo lost. I would never play mind harness in the early turns anyways so I usually have the mana late game.
What are peoples opinions on mind harness vs threads of disloyalty? I really don't like that threads costs 3 mana and can only target 2 or less. Mind harness does have the upkeep, but it takes 3 turns to cost as much as threads plus it can target all of zoo. Is threads/harness really around for more than 3 turns most of the time anyway? Another major complaint with threads is, turn 3 I have 3 mana and play threads but it gets countered or disenchant etc I have wasted a whole turn. So much tempo lost. I would never play mind harness in the early turns anyways so I usually have the mana late game.
i completely agree mind harness gives you the best options. has anyone thought of trying Legacy's Allure i know its no where near as fast but i think it could be worth trying at liest
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Insanity is knowing that what you're doing is completely idiotic, but still, somehow, you just can't stop it."
what is the consensus number of mutavaults people are going with? 3 or 4? I find myself unable to cast turn 2 lord of atlantis quite often. although technically there should be other turn 2 drops that don't require UU
i completely agree mind harness gives you the best options.
While I generally dislike creature stealing as a rule (I'm a fan of straight up removal), I think I too would pick Mind Harness over Threads. I think the 3cmc on Threads kills it and do you really need to keep the guy around for more than 2/3 turns?
what is the consensus number of mutavaults people are going with? 3 or 4? I find myself unable to cast turn 2 lord of atlantis quite often. although technically there should be other turn 2 drops that don't require UU
I find that 4 Mutavaults is fine. While it's true that I often can't cast T2 LoAs, I usually don't need to have a T2 LoA.
But really, this:
And this:
Minamo is really good late game. Give Wake Thrasher that extra push. Its alright early game. Like what MRdown2urth said, I would rather get this legendary land wasted than my Mutavault
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
That's not really a good reason. (So hard to see a joke in a forum...)
But it has saved my life once under Choke.
J
So you're running a 1-of card that has synergy with a 2-of in your deck?
The next question being, why Wake Thrasher?
I'd honestly rather run Kira than him. He has no synergy with the rest of the little blue fishy friends, something that, last I heard, tribal decks are usually looking for.
@Tarmogoyf in Merfolk: NO.
Not only are Tundras cheaper than Tropicals, but white opens you up to Sygg, River Guide, Disenchant, and most importantly, Swords to Plowshares
Goyf isn't really an answer to Goyf, anyway. Zoo, Thresh, Goyfsligh, and Eva Green all have built-in methods of killing him, which splashing for him DOESN'T give to Merfolk, especially since most of those decks can end the Goyf wars with a Bolt or a Grim Lavamancer, whereas Swords is a universal answer against just about every creature in the format
@dropping Stifle for Shapesharer
Bad idea. In fact, Shapesharer in general is a pretty bad idea. Stifle is critical against Goblins, stuffing Lackey triggers, making their 3-drops vanilla 1/1's, their 2-drops 2/2 hasters, and their 5-drops a 2/2 that costs 2 mana to throw at something, and for stopping the trigger on Goblin Piledriver, and considering that Goblins are one of our not-so-good matchups...
Stifle is also a star against Ichorid decks, countering the ETB (I feel really wrong using ETB instead of CIP) on Flame-Kin Zealots, giving you an extra turn to come up with an answer.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Also, I've seen a few lists sporting brainstorm over stifles (and sometimes with them as well lately). Anyone tried this and had any success.
I don't get to play Legacy too much, but I'm going tonight and I'm going to retweak my deck. Thinking of cutting tarmogoyfs and tropical islands out and going straight blue main deck, but I'm still not 100% at this stage.
Best move. Or run U/w for StP.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Atm I run them in the side and one tundra in the main. Having green is kinda handy because I really like Krosan Grip from side too, especially with a bit of affinity in the meta. However, I figure if i cut blue, I can always run Hurkyl's Recalls..
Recall>Grip vs. affinity, but not so much vs. key MU's like Landstill. 3 colors, no matter how lightly splashed, seems a little extreme. Let us know how it goes.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Swords were in side because I was scared of goblins, namely piledriver, but after all that I never played against the deck.
After typing it here, I think I'm going to swap to recall's now regards because it was the affinity deck that I lost to last them and it's an absolute house against them at times.
(However, I just found a D&T list I like and all I need is Karakas' to play it, so I'm still deciding on my deck choice)
That's pretty pimp. Never heard of the combo, but I like it
Heroes of the Plane
The Price of Legacy
The Price of Legacy 2.0!
Decks:
EDH
Malestrom Wanderer Group Chaotic Hugs
Tasigur, The Golden Fang Valu-Town
Modern
Too many to List...
Legacy
GWBNic-Fit PodGWB
G12-Post (Building)G
It's really not though...
I like to have my mana open for casting things more reliable like Lords instead of wasting it on some bum combo that will happen once for every nine times that Minamo gets wasted, losing you a turn of land drops.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I think it's OK as a one-of.
Against quite a few decks, you are Wastelanding or Stifling their fetch lands. So they are in mana denial anyway. If they blow a fetch on Minamo it is probably better than hitting your Mutavault. Plus it provides blue under Choke.
J
i think it was meant as stifleing the fetches or wastlanding what they get then again there are some ppl stupid enough to not pop a fetchland if you target it with a wasteland
"Insanity is knowing that what you're doing is completely idiotic, but still, somehow, you just can't stop it."
4x Island
4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea
4x Wasteland
4x Mutavault
Creatures (18):
4x Cursecatcher
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Merrow Reejerey
2x Merfolk Sovereign
4x Aether Vial
3x Stifle
4x Daze
3x Standstill
4x Smother
4x Force of Will
3x Pithing Needle
2x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Hydroblast
3x Thoughtseize
3x Snuff Out
2x Tombstalker
ゆっくりしていってね!!!
I might rock one swamp like those Eva Green decks do...just so your dual doesn't get hit a Wasteland and leave you hanging to face a Goyf. And to tone down the damage of Price of Progress just a bit.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
2 things,
1 - grats on 300th post
2 - might not be he needs to improve matchups, he wanted to splash black for removal (see Smother in decklist, Thoughtseize, Snuff Out and Tombstalker in the Side) or maybe just as a change of pace. I like to do this with my decks every now and then...keeps the game interesting
Heroes of the Plane
The Price of Legacy
The Price of Legacy 2.0!
Decks:
EDH
Malestrom Wanderer Group Chaotic Hugs
Tasigur, The Golden Fang Valu-Town
Modern
Too many to List...
Legacy
GWBNic-Fit PodGWB
G12-Post (Building)G
This came about while trying to improve the Zoo matchup, but I still need to do testing to see whether it is better than the alternatives.
ゆっくりしていってね!!!
I read your posts on the source which is pretty much the same discussion. First I think the 2 black for tombstalker will be tough to get with the 8 colorless. I sometimes have problems getting 2u for Lords and adding in the swamps doesn't make sense imo. He loses to goyf and how many turns till you can get the cards in your gravyard? wake thrasher is pretty good and isn't he just better? 2u can be viled in and pumped with lords.
(for me)
White splash
absolute law Good vs anything red. Goblins, Zoo, Thresh
disenchant One less than krosan grip but can be countered
swords to plowshares 4 in my maindeck. 1 mana seems better than any of the black cards mentioned.
Green Splash
Tarmogoyf best creature in legacy but when I tested I always wanted another merfolk instead because he doesn't have islandwalk or help other merfolk. 2 goyfs looking at each other isn't that cool
krosan grip good card but I like disenchant better due to the advantages of white sb and 1 less mana.
I didn't see any echoing truth in the main or sb, that would really help vs Zoo. Absolute law stops them from burning your creatures while you will have swords, mind harness and eching truths to help vs zoo. I noticed in the thread at the source that you didn't like threads of disloyalty, I like mind harness better as it can take any of zoo's creatures and only costs 1 mana.
Do you really need to thoughtseize zoo? And having absolute law in your sb instead of Engineered Plague seems more versatile as it helps vs all red matchups.
Snuff Out Can't target black, lose life and need a swamp
Thoughtseize Good but really needed????
Smother Seems good, but vs Zoo are the creatures the problem or the burn??
Engineered Plague goblins anything else??
tombstalker sub par creature and is slow. Goyf and thrasher can be viled in.
Just my thoughts and would welcome any arguments. I have been playing merfolk none stop and read all the pages on both sites playing all the different builds. I like white the most because it only needs one white which helps vs mana denial and only time I can beat red is with absolute law. Without the burn killing Lords merfolk get big enough so goyf isn't needed.
From DukeDemonKnight which 100% sums it up
"So I guess my main argument is that black gives you a worse creature than green, and worse removal spells than white"
Black doesn't make sense...especially trying to pay for stuff like Tombstalker. He's a BAMF but not in here.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
ゆっくりしていってね!!!
Isn't this suppose to be the proven competitive and that is why we have the developing competitive? It seems to clutter up the thread with every 2 posts someone is posting a random deck list or asking if you have tried this. This thread should be used as a tool to get the best Merfolk combination for winning. I only mention this because when I started playing Merfolk I actually read all the pages here and all the 120+ pages at the source. It made it very difficult to go through and find the best combination.
Just my opinion again and I'm not targeting anyone posts, just seems to happen a lot.
What are peoples opinions on mind harness vs threads of disloyalty? I really don't like that threads costs 3 mana and can only target 2 or less. Mind harness does have the upkeep, but it takes 3 turns to cost as much as threads plus it can target all of zoo. Is threads/harness really around for more than 3 turns most of the time anyway? Another major complaint with threads is, turn 3 I have 3 mana and play threads but it gets countered or disenchant etc I have wasted a whole turn. So much tempo lost. I would never play mind harness in the early turns anyways so I usually have the mana late game.
i completely agree mind harness gives you the best options. has anyone thought of trying Legacy's Allure i know its no where near as fast but i think it could be worth trying at liest
"Insanity is knowing that what you're doing is completely idiotic, but still, somehow, you just can't stop it."
While I generally dislike creature stealing as a rule (I'm a fan of straight up removal), I think I too would pick Mind Harness over Threads. I think the 3cmc on Threads kills it and do you really need to keep the guy around for more than 2/3 turns?
I find that 4 Mutavaults is fine. While it's true that I often can't cast T2 LoAs, I usually don't need to have a T2 LoA.
Random thought: why doesn't anyone run Cold-Eyed Selkie?
ゆっくりしていってね!!!