i dont like Caller of Gales because merfolks are already unblockable to 70% of the Meta...
however, there is an increase in Zoo and Goblin decks recently.
Im still trying to build a counter-top merfolk deck. Lullmage Mentor seems like a shoe in but my 3-drop spot has been getting clogged. Maybe I should run fetches to make Top better. I could also run the shuffle-gro merfolk.
This merfolk deck idea is slower than the conventional merfolk fish but it does have more control elements.
Can Standstill and Counterbalance coexist in a deck like this? Im currently running Cold-Eyed Selkie over Standstill in my Counter-Top build because the Selkie extends Counter-top's reach to 3 and continious draw also acts as a reset to Top. However, Selkie is bad topdeck if you have nothing in the board.
With the new Lullmage, I think im gonna run Standstill and get rid of Silvergill Adept (maybe a bad idea?) and abandon Selkie.
Any positive suggestions?
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Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
Errr the deck runs 4 standstill and 4 silvergill adept. It seems as though it draws enough off of those cards.
And standstill a dead draw? Only if you're losing but even then if the card is dead you can pitch it to FoW something.
And the new Cosi's Trickster or whatever: It depends on what you want to replace with it. Some people don't like cursecatcher so he would probably go if cursecatcher was underwhelming in their meta i.e. lots of zoo or creature based aggro.
Actually, I have noticed that a lot of the time I have trouble getting enough card with just the adepts and the standstills. It just feels too fair. I want access to many more cards, but have been unsatisfied with what I have tried so far (brainstorm, FoF, Accumulated Knowledge)
My FoWs have sentimental value to me (i didnt ebay them, i cracked 2 of them from a pack)
but ya, with the slow counter-top merfolk, im gonna add shuffling effects to reset my Top. Trickster is a shoe-in in the deck.
its just the matter of what to remove
He only gets bigger when your opp shuffles.
As far as the stifle, I agree waiting on turn and hoping they fetch didn't work out for me to much. I think merfolk should be more aggro and keeping my mana open didn't seem like the right thing. This nice new one drop merfolk will fit nicely
Question: That new blue enchantment that makes a land an Island--better or worse that Aquitect's Will? I always have LoAs out, but no one I play against has Islands. I feel I need to try something out once these idiots get their Goblin swarm or other random large creatures out. I can stall early and throw some damage, but I cannot finish.
I also have the same issue we've recently been discussing--once I get the Adepts out and maybe have a Standstill or two, I still feel like I burn through my counters and the rest of my hand too quickly.
Would either Aquitect's Will or that new enchantment help me that much? I figure the new one, while more costly, would help any land denial strategies, and I can use it without a 'Folk. AW just costs less; I may have no creatures out, and the land is still whatever type it was before the spell.
Any thoughts on this? Should I try Tidal Warrior/Reef Shaman? No card-drawing and more easily removed doesn't appeal to me so much....
Question: That new blue enchantment that makes a land an Island--better or worse that Aquitect's Will? I always have LoAs out, but no one I play against has Islands. I feel I need to try something out once these idiots get their Goblin swarm or other random large creatures out. I can stall early and throw some damage, but I cannot finish.
I also have the same issue we've recently been discussing--once I get the Adepts out and maybe have a Standstill or two, I still feel like I burn through my counters and the rest of my hand too quickly.
Would either Aquitect's Will or that new enchantment help me that much? I figure the new one, while more costly, would help any land denial strategies, and I can use it without a 'Folk. AW just costs less; I may have no creatures out, and the land is still whatever type it was before the spell.
Any thoughts on this? Should I try Tidal Warrior/Reef Shaman? No card-drawing and more easily removed doesn't appeal to me so much....
look at it this way with the creature(s) you can always attack with them thats why their better than something like aquitect's will and such
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"Insanity is knowing that what you're doing is completely idiotic, but still, somehow, you just can't stop it."
With the new ZEN cards revealed, has anyone tested the token-producing 3drop and the 1cc shuffle-grower?
I haven't been able to test this past week but I would assume there are some marginal benefits to running either (in addition to current card choices, obv). But would replacing a team member of 'folk be viable? The only choices I can realistically see altering in the MD are silvergils (although he's uber consistent) and stifle. Additionally, dropping these and possibly (possibly guys...) standstill could establish a very solid opening for CB/TOP + token-'folk.
I'll try to test in the upcoming days and if I had a decent experience, i'll clue you all in.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
With the new ZEN cards revealed, has anyone tested the token-producing 3drop and the 1cc shuffle-grower?
I haven't been able to test this past week but I would assume there are some marginal benefits to running either (in addition to current card choices, obv). But would replacing a team member of 'folk be viable? The only choices I can realistically see altering in the MD are silvergils (although he's uber consistent) and stifle. Additionally, dropping these and possibly (possibly guys...) standstill could establish a very solid opening for CB/TOP + token-'folk.
I'll try to test in the upcoming days and if I had a decent experience, i'll clue you all in.
I was going to test merfolk with Counter-top and Lullmage Mentor but ive been busy with work.
I would say under this built, Silvergill Adept has to leave to accomodate Standstill. I would also run Cold-Eyed Selkie as a Top 'restarter' (since im not running any fetches, i dont have enough shuffling enablers).
Like what was mentioned, counter their mana dudes and get Jitte ASAP. just to let you know however, Propaganda doesnt really help once they have mana-elves going.
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Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
am I the only one that is just realizing that Caller of Gales just gives one creature flying? I thought I read a post a while back that it gives all creatures you control flying.
Is Hibernation worth it (SB) against Elves? Takes out everyone and Garruk, too. Since they run so few lands, they can't bounce back as fast....
Yes, it is a pretty good choice, it also takes out Choke(which they probably have in the board) and Progenitus(which some Survival Elves builds run). It works against really any deck that runs NO + Progenitus as a solid answer to it also, and it has some use against Zoo, but it is a bit of a narrow choice and if you don't see Elves it won't have nearly as much usefulness.
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I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
I lost again to another elf deck again. I did pretty well both games and thought I countered well early and had jitte, but they have so many creatures that they just swarmed me. Didn't really get any combo just mass elves/lords.
Here is my side Pretty much red/goyf hate and Mirror. I'm not really sure about the Propaganda's though
I brought in some threads and propaganda's but didn't really do anything cause I didn't get many creatures. I think I took out some cursecatcher but I have a hard time SBing because I'm not really sure what to take out. I think Hibernation would have been great, but what would I take out in my SB??
Now that I mention it I lost round three to zoo, which I brought in the threads and the blasts. I took out the cursecatchers and standstills Still tough to SB against and not sure what to take out.
I think I am going to run 3xUmezawa's Jitte mainboard because I have a hard time beating Zoo, Elf and Goblins.
I have read this whole thread but any insight would be great, I know I asked a lot of questions.
Last night I was playing my buddy who runs White Staxxx. Flagstones of Trokair triggers Cosi's Trickster (whose art is decent), too. Just thought about that since he was doing quite a bit of shuffling. That deck runs Armageddon as the only sorcery (and no instants), so I am leaning towards going half-and-half with Cursecatcher in that one-slot. Without any significant testing.
Again, I play against Eva Green, Aggro Elves, Goblins, Ichorid, and White Staxxx, so I'm still pretty limited in what to test against.
...so I am leaning towards going half-and-half with Cursecatcher in that one-slot. Without any significant testing.
Again, I play against Eva Green, Aggro Elves, Goblins, Ichorid, and White Staxxx, so I'm still pretty limited in what to test against.
Cosi is only good if he can come out turn 1 (or "early" in some respect). Against your testing meta, these are the only ways he grows:
Eva Green: if it has fetchlands +1
Elves: nothing (unless it runs natural order, to which progenitus > cosi anyway)
Goblins: matron +1, fetchlands (if it runs them) +1
Ichorid: nothing
W. Staxxx: flagstones +1 (if they are weird and run some tutor effect like enlightened, that's another)
Not too much growing by any standards. The best would be control or aggro/control style decks. Thresholds and Dreadnought stuff since brainstorm and ponder and fetchlands would be prevalent. Other than that, he's rather soft -- simply a 1/1 for U.
Ironically, the upside is that Cosi is indeed another 1cc body. That means another *something* out on the table rather than needing vial/cursecatcher. At this, the idea of splitting 3:3 (or just having more 1 drops) isn't a terrible call. You're gonna need men on the table and even in later rounds, once lords come out, extra men are a plus.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I had an old casual Merfolk deck from the Fallen Empires era that I've been gradually upgrading the past few months into a Legacy Merfolk deck. I'm happy to announce that I now have all the pieces with the exception of Force of Wills and I'll be purchasing a playset of those after Oct. 10.
I do have a question regarding Daze. Why not simply run a hard counter in its place (ie Counterspell, Mana Leak)? It seems to me that since we are hopefully relying on AEther Vial to put Merfolk in play that would free up land to be used for casting counterspells.
I'm going to experiment with both approaches and see what works best for me, but I'm curious how Daze came to be the standard choice for this build and has anyone experimented with other counterspells outside of Daze and Force of Will? If so, how did those counters work for you?
.....I do have a question regarding Daze. Why not simply run a hard counter in its place (ie Counterspell, Mana Leak)?....I'm going to experiment with both approaches and see what works best for me, but I'm curious how Daze came to be the standard choice for this build and has anyone experimented with other counterspells outside of Daze and Force of Will? If so, how did those counters work for you?
It's a tried and tested (across all of legacy) that Daze is worthwhile. It's probably the second best counter in legacy actually.
Too much crap happens either turn 1 (you have a land) or turn 0 (you're yet to go) but you'll need to counter stuff. FOW and Daze answer this.
Additionally, in Legacy and T1, you're going to be tapped out (no mana avail) and will desperately need to stop something the opponent is playing. Daze does this in the early rounds/mid game and FOW does this throughout. At the mere expense of bouncing your island, you can negate anything they play. That's pretty solid and it's why peeps choose to run those options.
If you're looking for an actual spell to play in addition to those 2, look at spell snare (looks limited but it hits sooooo many annoyances), stifle (limited but solid card nevertheless), and counterbalance/sensei's divining top. Actual counterspell is decent but legacy is so aggressive and power-creep'ed that it needs free spells and efficiency > regular counterspell.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I have been thinking about Elves lately...could you throw in Arcane Laboratory to slow them down? I know if you use it at all, it should stop ANT, but has anyone tried it against Elves or Gobs? I find myself playing only about one spell a turn anyway, so I cannot imagine it hurts us THAT much. Dark Ritual becomes less useful (can still pump), and I feel that with AL, dropping a Standstill becomes even nicer.
however, there is an increase in Zoo and Goblin decks recently.
Im still trying to build a counter-top merfolk deck. Lullmage Mentor seems like a shoe in but my 3-drop spot has been getting clogged. Maybe I should run fetches to make Top better. I could also run the shuffle-gro merfolk.
This merfolk deck idea is slower than the conventional merfolk fish but it does have more control elements.
Can Standstill and Counterbalance coexist in a deck like this? Im currently running Cold-Eyed Selkie over Standstill in my Counter-Top build because the Selkie extends Counter-top's reach to 3 and continious draw also acts as a reset to Top. However, Selkie is bad topdeck if you have nothing in the board.
With the new Lullmage, I think im gonna run Standstill and get rid of Silvergill Adept (maybe a bad idea?) and abandon Selkie.
Any positive suggestions?
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
Seriously did you see the trickster?? I think it deserves a slot in your merfolk deck.
My FoWs have sentimental value to me (i didnt ebay them, i cracked 2 of them from a pack)
but ya, with the slow counter-top merfolk, im gonna add shuffling effects to reset my Top. Trickster is a shoe-in in the deck.
its just the matter of what to remove
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
Actually, I have noticed that a lot of the time I have trouble getting enough card with just the adepts and the standstills. It just feels too fair. I want access to many more cards, but have been unsatisfied with what I have tried so far (brainstorm, FoF, Accumulated Knowledge)
PTQ Top 8: 11/21/2009 Zendikar Sealed 4th
He only gets bigger when your opp shuffles.
As far as the stifle, I agree waiting on turn and hoping they fetch didn't work out for me to much. I think merfolk should be more aggro and keeping my mana open didn't seem like the right thing. This nice new one drop merfolk will fit nicely
Work for what?
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I also have the same issue we've recently been discussing--once I get the Adepts out and maybe have a Standstill or two, I still feel like I burn through my counters and the rest of my hand too quickly.
Would either Aquitect's Will or that new enchantment help me that much? I figure the new one, while more costly, would help any land denial strategies, and I can use it without a 'Folk. AW just costs less; I may have no creatures out, and the land is still whatever type it was before the spell.
Any thoughts on this? Should I try Tidal Warrior/Reef Shaman? No card-drawing and more easily removed doesn't appeal to me so much....
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
look at it this way with the creature(s) you can always attack with them thats why their better than something like aquitect's will and such
"Insanity is knowing that what you're doing is completely idiotic, but still, somehow, you just can't stop it."
I haven't been able to test this past week but I would assume there are some marginal benefits to running either (in addition to current card choices, obv). But would replacing a team member of 'folk be viable? The only choices I can realistically see altering in the MD are silvergils (although he's uber consistent) and stifle. Additionally, dropping these and possibly (possibly guys...) standstill could establish a very solid opening for CB/TOP + token-'folk.
I'll try to test in the upcoming days and if I had a decent experience, i'll clue you all in.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I was going to test merfolk with Counter-top and Lullmage Mentor but ive been busy with work.
I would say under this built, Silvergill Adept has to leave to accomodate Standstill. I would also run Cold-Eyed Selkie as a Top 'restarter' (since im not running any fetches, i dont have enough shuffling enablers).
Shuffle-grow merfolk needs to be tested as well.
Like what was mentioned, counter their mana dudes and get Jitte ASAP. just to let you know however, Propaganda doesnt really help once they have mana-elves going.
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
That sucks
A) I must of misread, because I posted it >.<
or
B) They mistyped the effect, as they revealed it.
Either way, I'm sadly disappointed as well :L
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(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Yes, it is a pretty good choice, it also takes out Choke(which they probably have in the board) and Progenitus(which some Survival Elves builds run). It works against really any deck that runs NO + Progenitus as a solid answer to it also, and it has some use against Zoo, but it is a bit of a narrow choice and if you don't see Elves it won't have nearly as much usefulness.
I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Here is my side Pretty much red/goyf hate and Mirror. I'm not really sure about the Propaganda's though
2x
I brought in some threads and propaganda's but didn't really do anything cause I didn't get many creatures. I think I took out some cursecatcher but I have a hard time SBing because I'm not really sure what to take out. I think Hibernation would have been great, but what would I take out in my SB??
Now that I mention it I lost round three to zoo, which I brought in the threads and the blasts. I took out the cursecatchers and standstills Still tough to SB against and not sure what to take out.
I think I am going to run 3xUmezawa's Jitte mainboard because I have a hard time beating Zoo, Elf and Goblins.
I have read this whole thread but any insight would be great, I know I asked a lot of questions.
Again, I play against Eva Green, Aggro Elves, Goblins, Ichorid, and White Staxxx, so I'm still pretty limited in what to test against.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Cosi is only good if he can come out turn 1 (or "early" in some respect). Against your testing meta, these are the only ways he grows:
Eva Green: if it has fetchlands +1
Elves: nothing (unless it runs natural order, to which progenitus > cosi anyway)
Goblins: matron +1, fetchlands (if it runs them) +1
Ichorid: nothing
W. Staxxx: flagstones +1 (if they are weird and run some tutor effect like enlightened, that's another)
Not too much growing by any standards. The best would be control or aggro/control style decks. Thresholds and Dreadnought stuff since brainstorm and ponder and fetchlands would be prevalent. Other than that, he's rather soft -- simply a 1/1 for U.
Ironically, the upside is that Cosi is indeed another 1cc body. That means another *something* out on the table rather than needing vial/cursecatcher. At this, the idea of splitting 3:3 (or just having more 1 drops) isn't a terrible call. You're gonna need men on the table and even in later rounds, once lords come out, extra men are a plus.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I do have a question regarding Daze. Why not simply run a hard counter in its place (ie Counterspell, Mana Leak)? It seems to me that since we are hopefully relying on AEther Vial to put Merfolk in play that would free up land to be used for casting counterspells.
I'm going to experiment with both approaches and see what works best for me, but I'm curious how Daze came to be the standard choice for this build and has anyone experimented with other counterspells outside of Daze and Force of Will? If so, how did those counters work for you?
Current decks:
Legacy: Zoo, Aggro Elves, The Gate, White Weenie, Red Deck Wins, and Merfolk. Currently building Solidarity.
Casual: Warp World Revolution and Old School Red-Green.
Standard: Ob-Nixilis Wave and Elves.
It's a tried and tested (across all of legacy) that Daze is worthwhile. It's probably the second best counter in legacy actually.
Too much crap happens either turn 1 (you have a land) or turn 0 (you're yet to go) but you'll need to counter stuff. FOW and Daze answer this.
Additionally, in Legacy and T1, you're going to be tapped out (no mana avail) and will desperately need to stop something the opponent is playing. Daze does this in the early rounds/mid game and FOW does this throughout. At the mere expense of bouncing your island, you can negate anything they play. That's pretty solid and it's why peeps choose to run those options.
If you're looking for an actual spell to play in addition to those 2, look at spell snare (looks limited but it hits sooooo many annoyances), stifle (limited but solid card nevertheless), and counterbalance/sensei's divining top. Actual counterspell is decent but legacy is so aggressive and power-creep'ed that it needs free spells and efficiency > regular counterspell.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'