Has anybody seen the new M10 rules? Mogg Fanatic pretty much becomes useless to us when the rule changes take place *Sigh* That was a real nice creature We had there once. I'm thinking maybe its time to go creatureless after that if for no other reason so I don't have to put dudes on the "Battlefield" (another stupid idea IMO)
Yeah...just read it. Mogg Fanatic was a tricky little bastard, he could save you from damage and ping for 1. Now its one or the other which makes him pretty useless.
Maybe going creatureless could be a good option. Though Keldon Marauders is still pretty good.
I say we find a replacement for mogg fanatic...there's only one match he helps us in now and that is ichorid in all other matchups the guy is pretty much dirt worthless
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
yep, it dosen't afectet at all to keldon marauders...
i have a question, u still can block, and sacrifice before asign dmg, so if the other creature don't have trample can't deal the damage?
Actually, all damage is done simultaneously and once its assigned, there can be no more fast effects. No giant growth, no sac mogg, you have to do it before damage is dealt or before blockers are assigned, or both (id have to check the new ruling but im too lazy). Case in point, the new rules even state mogg fanatic as an example that he will 'function as he was supposed to function' you either block or sac, not both.
something tells me i'm gonna be running my grim lavamancers again
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Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Yeah I thought of that right when fanatic was nerfed...seems that lavamancer is best suited to take the 1 drop spot fanatic once held. Sure it gives them a chance to use their StP but honestly I'd rather play needle drop in place of fanatic now since the fanatic will likely only deal 1 damage whereas the needle drop does 1 damage and draws you a card.
Any other idea's for what should take fanatic's place?
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Might I be the first to recommend Spark Elemental, or Hellspark Elemental instead of Lavamancer, they will still fulfill the fanatic's role, almost as well, and maintain at least a similar rate of tempo. Mancer is just too slow, and such a god awful topdeck.
Needle drop is definitely an interesting idea.
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I edit after I post... just a heads up.
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
wow i just read the rule changes. They totally neutered fanatic. As a replacement I would suggest the hellspark. He can get past counter top when he unearths and has a potential for 6 damage where spark elemental will only deal 3 at most. OR they may print some kind of replacement in M10, but i doubt it. I will test a few different options and report back.
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Standard
UWU/W Heroic UW
BMono Black Aggro B
"Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake."-Napoleon Bonaparte;)
It's not like when you do the stack, sac trick with Fanatic, you're going to kill an attacker. Most of the time, when your Fanatic is forced back to block, it's because of a big creature coming your way (e.g. Goyf). Usually, the sac damage goes to the opponent anyway.
Seems like We are pretty hard up for a 1 drop replacement for Mogg Fanatic. Altough it affects the mana curve, the 1st thing I was gunna test in the empty spaces is Flames of the Blood Hand I've wanted a reason to play it for a while now and Moggs get the nerf seems as good a reason as any.
It's not like when you do the stack, sac trick with Fanatic, you're going to kill an attacker. Most of the time, when your Fanatic is forced back to block, it's because of a big creature coming your way (e.g. Goyf). Usually, the sac damage goes to the opponent anyway.
True most of the time, the one exception i can think of is this.
Attack with mogg defending played blocks with Dark Confidant (knowing that he will most likely die. Now you will not be able to deal the one extra damage to your opponent. He still can block a big nasty goyf and sac for one but he loses a lot of his versatility. And he can no longer take down a X/2 by himself.
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Standard
UWU/W Heroic UW
BMono Black Aggro B
"Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake."-Napoleon Bonaparte;)
I doubt m10 will give burn anything useful let alone something that will replace fanatic or any other card for that matter. Like another 3 dmg bolt as a one drop. Another bolt would be great though.
I'm not sure i like lavamancer. Wouldnt more than 2 copies of it in the deck be too much?
So fanatic can still block sac? Even then, we dont really want it to be on defense most of the game so that alone doesnt save it.
I doubt m10 will give burn anything useful let alone something that will replace fanatic or any other card for that matter. Like another 3 dmg bolt as a one drop. Another bolt would be great though.
I'm not sure i like lavamancer. Wouldnt more than 2 copies of it in the deck be too much?
So fanatic can still block sac? Even then, we dont really want it to be on defense most of the game so that alone doesnt save it.
He can block and sac, the main difference (from what i can tell) is that "damage on" and "damage" all occur at the same time. the same with lifelink. When a creature with lifelink deals damage its controller gains life at the same time.
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Standard
UWU/W Heroic UW
BMono Black Aggro B
"Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake."-Napoleon Bonaparte;)
It's a 2-drop but might I suggest ankh of mishra? It can be so devastating and against fetchlands it deals 5 which is very potent for 1 card. ALthough it opens us up to artifact removal, people who board in k-grip will have to play k-grip turn 3 when we get the ankh down turn 2 and as such it can still deal them 2-5 damage for that land drop. It also really hurt's countersliver/meathooks because they run so many fetches due to their 3-4 color manabase.
Sometime's we want fanatic to block but not usually. It can matter but it usually doesn't seeing as how burn races aggro decks to get lethal on the opponent first.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
From what I understand mogg fanatic is still good. Most the time I don't worry about trying to kill the attacking creature. I block, to prevent dammage, and sac to deal 1 to the dome. In the new rules, that is still acomplished and the attacker is blocked, but the combat dammage isn't delt, just the one to the dome. In other news, they're reprinting ball lightning...
From what I understand mogg fanatic is still good. Most the time I don't worry about trying to kill the attacking creature. I block, to prevent dammage, and sac to deal 1 to the dome. In the new rules, that is still acomplished and the attacker is blocked, but the combat dammage isn't delt, just the one to the dome. In other news, they're reprinting ball lightning...
Often times, people with 2 toughness creatures would be scared to block in case you'd sac your mogg to deal the remaining 1 after blocking. Now fanatic just doesnt do anything once theres a blocker on the table. All it does is give us a chance to block and sac with it...more of a defensive role which is not what it had served it so nicely over the years.
Occassions where id want fanatic on defence are rare. he's usually tapped and attacking, that was his role. By the time his attacks were useless, i had already won the game.
Ankh of mishra may not be a bad idea. It seems like we'll have to really think about this 4 open slot. Problem with the ankh is that multiples of it would be annoying, unless destroyed, i'd figure 2 or 3 would be good, 4 if you REALLY wanna get it in your opening hand. Though I fear ankh wouldnt be a great topdeck thus a pace killer for this deck.
Shock as a one drop seems decent. Or maybe a couple forks and a couple of something else could be good...still fork isnt a good topdeck unless you have something in hand like a fireblast.
Yeah in your experiences how much damage has fanatic dealt to the defending player? If 2 is the answer then simply replace it with shock despite the fact that shock is almost strictly worse due to the fact that it doesn't have a body to threaten them with.
Yeah I like ankh a lot personally because fetches run so rampant in this format right now that it is often 5 damage for 2 just because they played the fetch, sacked it dealing 1, then put another land into play dealing 5. It also helps if your opponent went 'budget' by putting rav. duels in their deck because if they come into play untapped it deals a third of their life with one card which seems solid.
Only problem with ankh is that it hurts you also and you don't get to play fetches (unless you really want to thin your deck for a quarter of your life to really hurt the aggro MU)
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I think I'll be going back to Shard Volley x 2 given the nerfing of our Mogg. I can now fit the 4th Incinerate again, and the last slot will either be the 3rd Vortex or the 20th land. Given that the average mana requirements are increasing, the Volleys are there, and there are more reasons than ever to run sideboard Anarchy locally, the land is looking good.
Nil: Yes, Sharazad is banned. That old decklist is from b4 the banning, and may be contributing factor in it!
I think I'll be going back to Shard Volley x 2 given the nerfing of our Mogg. I can now fit the 4th Incinerate again, and the last slot will either be the 3rd Vortex or the 20th land. Given that the average mana requirements are increasing, the Volleys are there, and there are more reasons than ever to run sideboard Anarchy locally, the land is looking good.
Nil: Yes, Sharazad is banned. That old decklist is from b4 the banning, and may be contributing factor in it!
Wouldnt shard volley and extra lands essentially slow down the deck?
That's the problem I have with Shard Volley, is that between that and 4x Fireblast it needs too much land.
I'm still going to run Fanatic, it is a great answer to first turn lackey against Goblins, as well as being able to slow down the opponent by blocking a 'Goyf when you are getting bad topdecks.
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I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
No this isnt just an isolated incident. Even people i have played in person get pretty upset losing to burn. They often look down their noses at it.
Do you have a deck list for your R/W deck. I have been wanting to splash white for a while(mainly for lightning helix).
Is it just me or do you find that a lot of people get really hacked off at losing to burn? I've been using a Burn deck with a white splash on Workstation and in a dozen matches only a couple of opponents have actually finished the match instead of huffing off after losing the first round, occaisionally while hurling an insult at me for being a n00b for playing such a noob deck. Is it like this in actual meat-space tournaments or is this just another example of MWS being full of *******s?
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Standard
UWU/W Heroic UW
BMono Black Aggro B
"Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake."-Napoleon Bonaparte;)
Lekwid: The landcount of 20 instead of 19 isn't drastically different statistically. People running Anarchy have long been advocates of 20 land. A pair of Shard Volley is essentially adding further 'finisher' spells, I don't anticipate casting them as anything other than the final 3 points the majority of the time. Of course, there will be those games where I'll get a fist full of Volleys and Fireblasts, but testing will reveal if the frequency is too great to bear. I certainly think it will not slow the deck as much as additional 3 drops, or cards which are poor topdecks.
Gravemind123: I kind of know the Mogg is still OK, but he's been slipping in relevance in my meta NEway. Might as well try some new steps. I can afford to lose the points, my Eternal rating already qualified me for Nats as Total is being used in addition to Composite now.
Shaven Wumpus: A little from column A, and some from column B. Elite Legacy players realise the deck is an eternal staple in the global metagame, as against many decks and metagame conditions it wins quite a lot. It's seens as a bit cheap tho, essentially ignoring many of the reasons a lot of people play this format. Essentially, many top tier decks have to be prepared to face it and pack appropriate sideboard tech for the matchup, and if they don't you've caught them with thier pants down and they lose. To Burn. Piloted by a n00b. =^D
In meatspace, common reactions to facing a known good player using Burn are "You KNEW I had nothing in the board for that!" or "Jeez, you have a heavy night?"
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Some have said embermages lack subtlety. You know what? THEY'RE ALL DEAD!! :mad1:
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Maybe going creatureless could be a good option. Though Keldon Marauders is still pretty good.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Actually, all damage is done simultaneously and once its assigned, there can be no more fast effects. No giant growth, no sac mogg, you have to do it before damage is dealt or before blockers are assigned, or both (id have to check the new ruling but im too lazy). Case in point, the new rules even state mogg fanatic as an example that he will 'function as he was supposed to function' you either block or sac, not both.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Any other idea's for what should take fanatic's place?
Currently Playing:
Retired
Needle drop is definitely an interesting idea.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
True most of the time, the one exception i can think of is this.
Attack with mogg defending played blocks with Dark Confidant (knowing that he will most likely die. Now you will not be able to deal the one extra damage to your opponent. He still can block a big nasty goyf and sac for one but he loses a lot of his versatility. And he can no longer take down a X/2 by himself.
I'm not sure i like lavamancer. Wouldnt more than 2 copies of it in the deck be too much?
So fanatic can still block sac? Even then, we dont really want it to be on defense most of the game so that alone doesnt save it.
He can block and sac, the main difference (from what i can tell) is that "damage on" and "damage" all occur at the same time. the same with lifelink. When a creature with lifelink deals damage its controller gains life at the same time.
Sometime's we want fanatic to block but not usually. It can matter but it usually doesn't seeing as how burn races aggro decks to get lethal on the opponent first.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Currently Playing:
Retired
Often times, people with 2 toughness creatures would be scared to block in case you'd sac your mogg to deal the remaining 1 after blocking. Now fanatic just doesnt do anything once theres a blocker on the table. All it does is give us a chance to block and sac with it...more of a defensive role which is not what it had served it so nicely over the years.
Occassions where id want fanatic on defence are rare. he's usually tapped and attacking, that was his role. By the time his attacks were useless, i had already won the game.
Ankh of mishra may not be a bad idea. It seems like we'll have to really think about this 4 open slot. Problem with the ankh is that multiples of it would be annoying, unless destroyed, i'd figure 2 or 3 would be good, 4 if you REALLY wanna get it in your opening hand. Though I fear ankh wouldnt be a great topdeck thus a pace killer for this deck.
Shock as a one drop seems decent. Or maybe a couple forks and a couple of something else could be good...still fork isnt a good topdeck unless you have something in hand like a fireblast.
Yeah I like ankh a lot personally because fetches run so rampant in this format right now that it is often 5 damage for 2 just because they played the fetch, sacked it dealing 1, then put another land into play dealing 5. It also helps if your opponent went 'budget' by putting rav. duels in their deck because if they come into play untapped it deals a third of their life with one card which seems solid.
Only problem with ankh is that it hurts you also and you don't get to play fetches (unless you really want to thin your deck for a quarter of your life to really hurt the aggro MU)
Currently Playing:
Retired
Nil: Yes, Sharazad is banned. That old decklist is from b4 the banning, and may be contributing factor in it!
Wouldnt shard volley and extra lands essentially slow down the deck?
I'm still going to run Fanatic, it is a great answer to first turn lackey against Goblins, as well as being able to slow down the opponent by blocking a 'Goyf when you are getting bad topdecks.
I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Do you have a deck list for your R/W deck. I have been wanting to splash white for a while(mainly for lightning helix).
Gravemind123: I kind of know the Mogg is still OK, but he's been slipping in relevance in my meta NEway. Might as well try some new steps. I can afford to lose the points, my Eternal rating already qualified me for Nats as Total is being used in addition to Composite now.
Shaven Wumpus: A little from column A, and some from column B. Elite Legacy players realise the deck is an eternal staple in the global metagame, as against many decks and metagame conditions it wins quite a lot. It's seens as a bit cheap tho, essentially ignoring many of the reasons a lot of people play this format. Essentially, many top tier decks have to be prepared to face it and pack appropriate sideboard tech for the matchup, and if they don't you've caught them with thier pants down and they lose. To Burn. Piloted by a n00b. =^D
In meatspace, common reactions to facing a known good player using Burn are "You KNEW I had nothing in the board for that!" or "Jeez, you have a heavy night?"