I obviously don't have any experience playing EE in this particular deck, but where I find it useful in CounterTop is as an answer to turn one Vial and the three one drop zerg rush hands Zoo gets sometimes. It's also good against random rouge decks that don't vary their curve. Obviously, it's good against Belcher and bad builds of Dredge as well.
Edit: I really don't like playing non-blue duals in blue based decks; I find the number of times they are useful is offset by the number of times you open hands with them and a non-blue basic and have to pitch them back. I don't like Ponder here, because I want to keep that mana open to play Stifle, Spellstutter, Clique, etc. If hitting land drops is a problem with such a light splash, then I'd rather add another land or two, but I haven't had any trouble.
Anyone have any experience playing with Scion of Oona or Mistbind Clique? I can make arguments both for and against their inclusion, so some actual play results would be helpful. They seem like the only other playable Faerie cards besides Bitterblossom. I do wish Oona's Blackguard worked with Faeries instead of Rogues; it would be really good in here.
Edit: I suppose reading the thread is a good idea. It pretty much expresses my thoughts on both Scion and Mistbind, but I am still curious if anyone has actually played with them.
Alright, played one game with two Scions in there, and that was enough for me to decide that they aren't very good. They would be very nice if they cost 1U, but that extra mana is crippling. I'm not even going to bother trying to play Mistbinds without more faeries to champion.
what kind of a meta are you in, that you prefer bob to bitterblossom?
also, i would personally keep those sowers in the board.. but again, i guess it just depends on the meta, and i don't like it becasue it always gets killed right away.
spell peirce in the main looks interesting.. i may have to try that out. since bolt and fire/ice have been horrible for me and the first things i side out for peirce.. mine as well run the maindeck.
i'm espcially intersted in how well you're hitting your land drops w/o ponder. sure you want to play or bluff stifle. but i'm running 21 lands with 3 ponders and still get hosed more often than not. plus being able to select quality cards or ship away garbage is really nice. it would be hard for me to give them up. i'd like to hear your opinions on this.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I play on MTGO, which at the moment is a cluster of random decks. Bob isn't particularly good against Zoo, because you can't keep him alive, but is great against pretty much everything else. He is also why I don't have problems hitting land drops, along with the fact that you rarely need more than three mana until the late game.
The Sowers are pretty mediocre; you almost always have to tap out to play them, which means you only have Force and Daze to protect them. I'm not really sure what else to play there, though, as none of the other Faeries are any good.
I play on MTGO, which at the moment is a cluster of random decks. Bob isn't particularly good against Zoo, because you can't keep him alive, but is great against pretty much everything else. He is also why I don't have problems hitting land drops, along with the fact that you rarely need more than three mana until the late game.
The Sowers are pretty mediocre; you almost always have to tap out to play them, which means you only have Force and Daze to protect them. I'm not really sure what else to play there, though, as none of the other Faeries are any good.
i dont really like sowers in the deck at all, killing the creature is much more effective
as per my usual style, i played a last minute drasticly changed deck.
IF (and i stress the word IF), this direction is the way to go, i'm sure it could be improved upon.
Played a small tourny tonight.. I beat bant counter top and enchantress. lost twice to mana screw (would you keep 5 cards on the draw, with no land, but double force and double spell peirce? i did, and never again).
when this gets rolling, there's no stoping it, and it has answers to most anything. problem is, with out the ponders, i had problems finding land. and the mana gods weren't pleased with me either, i had to mull an awful lot.
1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
i'd really like to get some input/discuss the enlightened tutor package.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I played a couple of matches with a white splash and Enlightened Tutor package, and I wasn't really impressed. StP is better than Terminate, but losing Firespout for Moat is hard to deal with. Moat just isn't very good at stopping modern aggro decks, because of all the Pridemages running around. Post-board, they bring in Grip, which you can't deal with. The card disadvantage from Tutor is also hard to deal with, as the deck doesn't really have any way to recoup it.
as per my usual style, i played a last minute drasticly changed deck.
IF (and i stress the word IF), this direction is the way to go, i'm sure it could be improved upon.
Played a small tourny tonight.. I beat bant counter top and enchantress. lost twice to mana screw (would you keep 5 cards on the draw, with no land, but double force and double spell peirce? i did, and never again).
when this gets rolling, there's no stoping it, and it has answers to most anything. problem is, with out the ponders, i had problems finding land. and the mana gods weren't pleased with me either, i had to mull an awful lot.
i built this looking at countertop, bant survival, zoo, merfolk and goblins being my main concerns.
2 colors of removal are needed to get around iona (karakas helps if luckily drawn.
maindeck pithing needle stops sruvival, top, vial, many useful targets.. especially game one.
moat just says "i win" against a lot of decks. everything we play flys.. why not.
IF the tutor package is to stay, i really feel like a third is needed.
however, it's really hard to make room. would taking out the stifle/waste package be advisable? spell peirce looses most of it's alure then as well.
am i on to a great new deck here? or am i blinded by my ambition?
please, constructive critisism is very welcome. sleeve it up, or play on MWS, let me know what you think and how to improve it.
Why White over, say, Red? Or why splash?
Also, the misers in your deck, like Moat, Top and MD Pithing Needle seem really, really odd.
I mean, no offense, but I see Moat being played against a deck like Zoo, but when they play 4 MD Pridemage, it won't stay there very long, unless of course you have the miser Needle as well, which I doubt will happen very often.
The reason Enchantress runs it is because they can both protect it and recur it, neither of which you can do.
And personally, if your going to run a tutor package, you should be running 4 Enlightened Tutor. I, however, do not think that package is strong enough in a Fae build.
I would also always play Spell Snare over Spell Peirce in the MD, as a lot of the things you want to hit with Snare, such as Goyf, Enchantress, Pridemage, Goyf, Counterbalance, Goyf, you can't with Pierce. It's really good against the Combo decks, but not so much against almost anything else.
And, personally, your missing not only Mutuvault, but also the second best creature in Legacy, being Vendilion Clique.
I would just run UB Fae, in all honesty, or splash Red for things like Terminate and Fire/Ice, and REB.
I think my list is more "aggro" and less "control".
Even with 2x Smother and 1x Doom Blade the MUs vs aggro based deck is 40/60. But if I can see early Jitte or EE maybe we have a 50/50. Post side with another 2 removal and Propaganda (usually unaspected) we are 60/40.
MUs vs combo decks (ANT, Dream Halls) is not so good... even with active FoW. Post side is a little better with Mindbreak Traps but normally we haven't enought control of the board... 40/60.
MUs vs grave based decks (Dredge, Loam, Threshold) starts 40/60 but going up to 70/30 post side.
In fact the deck suffers the 1st match because is not oriented against a specific kind of enemy deck. But post side, I think, we have the answers we need to change all the MUs.
Let me know what do you think... and sorry for my poor english.
i think maybe smother is better than doomblade pretty much all the time. and you're right, you need to perhaps focus it a bit better. are you control or are you tempo? maybe mistbind clique over the tombstalkers would be something to test. thoughtseize or duress in the md/board should improve your combo matchup, and I don't even know that the bitterblossoms are worth it. how are they testing, are they important, etc.?
also, no matter what you do, i suspect a fast aggro deck with any kind of reach will *always* be your bane. even standard faeries had that issue.
maybe mistbind clique over the tombstalkers would be something to test.
Mistbind is a good choice if we have bitterblossom on the battlefield. If we're playing against aggro we need block attacks to get the 4th turn for mistbind... and then a lot of times we don't have a fae to remove. Tombstalker, instead, remove our faeries in the graveyard and enters even if our board is empty.
thoughtseize or duress in the md/board should improve your combo matchup, and I don't even know that the bitterblossoms are worth it.
I prefer duress to thoughtseize in this deck because we lose a lot of HP with fetches and bb. Sometimes I put it in SB instead of Extirpate... but I really love extirpate!!!
Removing BB is surely a possibility... maybe for Duress or Mistbind. I haven't tried this solution beacause BB helps us a lot against standstill based decks and can block Tarmogoyf while we attack with Tombstalker.
also, no matter what you do, i suspect a fast aggro deck with any kind of reach will *always* be your bane. even standard faeries had that issue.
Fast aggro is a problem, of course. Maybe 40/60 is a optimistic value. Maybe in the 1st game is 30/70 and post side 50/50. Post side we have Propaganda (absolutely undervalued) to relent them. Normally they see 1 or max 2 solutions to Propaganda in the entire game... but we have 11 counters. When they have to chose between attack with one creature or playing one creature they're not so aggressive. Piledriver is a 3/2 at his best with Propaganda on the board... and we can resolve a lot of problems with EE, Jitte and BB.
ok, let's take a look at the perennial favorite/"standard" (and I use the term loosely) of a burn deck. they have straight reach. can you race them, or slow them down enough to get away with a blue/black list? in other words, on those cards you're naming about killing with doom blade. Might I point out that you do, in fact, run 11 counters, and should be seriously worried if you can't answer that reanimate (or whatever his card was) that brought in the iona or the rafiq. also, of all of those targets you named, all were white or green..consider deathmark in the sideboard? I think you might need more card draw/selection. perhaps a ponder or two? and the mistbinds would be far superior to the tombstalkers, even if as a 3 of. you're not really about filling your graveyard, and you should have no lack of finishers.
I haven't got a chance to test with Mistbind yet (although I did find some Bitterblossoms), but I doubt that they will be "far superior" to Tombstalker. It is rare that you don't have at least four cards in your graveyard, and you often have more, making Stalker cheaper than Mistbind. Mistbind's downside - requiring a Faerie in play and opening you up to two for ones - is also not negligible.
i'm liking the synergy between aether vial, spellstutter sprite, cloud of faeries and familiar's ruse. seems like it should be used as a fifth (or sixth) counterspell?
aether vial is good on its own, but reusing spellstutter sprite is pretty fun...
would need like a swords or jitte to win things though
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EDH: WBGhost Council of OrzhovaBW WUBErtai, the CorruptedWUB
CONSTRUCTED: B Smallpox Control
Bloodbraid Elf Sligh RG UW Draw-Go Weenie Hosea 13:14
"I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes."
I haven't got a chance to test with Mistbind yet (although I did find some Bitterblossoms), but I doubt that they will be "far superior" to Tombstalker. It is rare that you don't have at least four cards in your graveyard, and you often have more, making Stalker cheaper than Mistbind. Mistbind's downside - requiring a Faerie in play and opening you up to two for ones - is also not negligible.
in a deck with that many bitterblossoms and other faeries, it doesn't seem likely that you won't have at least one or two in play. still, test it and see how it goes. I'm still of the opinion that having an instant speed time walk in play is a good way to wreck a lot of decks, even in legacy. I'll proxy up a version in mws and see how it does myself.
ok, let's take a look at the perennial favorite/"standard" (and I use the term loosely) of a burn deck. they have straight reach. can you race them, or slow them down enough to get away with a blue/black list? in other words, on those cards you're naming about killing with doom blade. Might I point out that you do, in fact, run 11 counters, and should be seriously worried if you can't answer that reanimate (or whatever his card was) that brought in the iona or the rafiq. also, of all of those targets you named, all were white or green..consider deathmark in the sideboard? I think you might need more card draw/selection. perhaps a ponder or two? and the mistbinds would be far superior to the tombstalkers, even if as a 3 of. you're not really about filling your graveyard, and you should have no lack of finishers.
Ok... I will try the deck with these changes:
Main deck:
-1 Doom Blade
+2 Ponder
Up to 61 cards with 2 Ponders for better manipulation.
Side:
-1 Doom Blade
+1 Deathmark
-2 Mindbreak Trap
+2 Chalice of the Void
Mindbreak Trap can be used only against Storm-deck, Chalice is good vs Storm-decks and vs Burn too...
Go for UBr and don't buy 4 of each dual, you can make due with 2 Volcanic Islands, 2 Underground Sea and 1 Badlands until you can get the remaining duals.
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I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Which one should I build? I think I like the UBr most, but I'm not sure can I afford 4 of both duals.
This isn't advice about Faeries but with my experience in Legacy so far, if a deck requires 4 of a dual, you can generally get away with 2 of them... I haven't had much issue running two copies of each dual in my various Legacy decks.
Dreadnought races things Tombstalker can only dream of, and it prevents Stifle from being dead half the time. Having your giant finisher cost just one minimizes damage off Bob, so running him and Bitterblossom in the same deck isn't a problem. Bob and Standstill make up the card disadvantage from Nought.
I tried running straight UB for a few games, but I think Firespout really is necessary for the aggro games where you don't drop the early Nought.
I just went undefeated in a small tourny (18 or so people) last night. beat stuff like countertop progenitus, bant survival, zoo, and even burn!
my secret?.... i'm really prefering white to red as my splash color. in a tempo deck like this, it's just sooooo much easier to play swords on one color than terminate on TWO of off-colors.
today my only threats were sprites, blossom, and bobs... bob is so good. but my games lasted too long.. swinging with 1/1's and waiting to equip/protect a jitte took too long for whats supposed to be a tempo deck... won most of my matches just before time was called. so even though i loved bob, i don't think i'll be playing him again (more on that in a minute).
i also maindecked 3 jittes, 4 swords, 1 smother and 3 spell peirces. sorry, but i have to keep some of my white board slots top secret for a while, but "those cards" totally won me the games vs zoo and burn, and i'm sure would also be amazing vs goblins and merfolks.
@ theintangiblefatman:
after playing with bob, and wanting a big threat (revealing tombstalker would hurt too much), I've actually been thinking about tring Dreadnaught + bob together... it doesn't hurt to flip, bob makes up for the inherant card disadvantage that comes along with stifling your own creature.
i may still try it, and i'd love to hear about your testing results, but for now i'm going to pass.. because it doesnt' necessarily help our hardest matchups.
and i think you could use some updateing on your list.. 18 lands is going to be pretty hard to manage, especially when you're only running 2 ponders. standstill is just too slow and we can't abuse it as well as other decks. not to mention that we are wanting to do so many other/better things with that mana early on.
oh.. and i'd get rid of plagues. they're not going to help you vs merfolks, probably not against goblins, you've just got better options. the only thing they're actually good against is us.
edit.. ps,
i'm finally getting the hang of explosives. after you play the deck for a while, and learn when/how to use explosives, you really start to realize that firespouts just aren't worth the red splash.
1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
After playing 15-20 matches with the deck, I like Dreadnought a lot. He really does help what I would consider the bad matchups - fast aggro - a lot.
I have decided to drop a Standstill for another Ponder. The Standstills have been good for me, but the deck uses them a lot differently than most other decks, in that you don't want to drop one as soon as possible, so I think three is a better number. The added Ponder is to up the one drop count.
I really hate picking up lands for Daze with a passion, but I'm afraid it is a necessary evil.
The MODO meta is like 20% Goblins at the moment, and Plague is really good against them. It makes Spellstutter and Bitterblossom tokens trade with all of their dudes and Double Plague or Plague plus Jitte means they can't stick a creature.
I have considered dropping Red, because Firespout is a little slow, and Terminate can be replaced. Maybe I'll try splashing for Swords and a few more plows in the sideboard.
Maybe I'll try splashing for Swords and a few more plows in the sideboard.
if you're talking about path to exile, do NOT do it.
we play mana denial and tempo, giving them a land is not what you want to be doing.
instead, to compliment swords, look at cards like smother, doom blade, diabloic edict, and if you're running naughts instead of tombstalkers, a few ghastly demises can be really good.
also remember, having two colors of removal doesn't let Iona shut you down (in this case, smother is horrible).
edit:
about naught/bob- i tested about 10 games vs mono blue merfolk.. very disapointing results. I'm always forced to use my stifles on vial activations and opposing waste lands. and i haven't actually tested them against zoo or goblins yet, but i imagine i'll have the same problem.. always wanting to stifle their lands, pridemages, lavamancers... or vials, matrons, and ringleaders... always leaving a dead card (naught) stuck in my hand. so i'm not sold yet. people in the counterballance/dreadnaught and death n taxes threads have been talking about using enlighned tutor... maybe only running 2 naughts, 2 e.tutors...? thats twice the card disadvantage too though.
I know it's a ways off, but i'm tring to prepare for GP Columbus. I'm not 100% sure yet, but I think I may be bringing faeries if things keep going as well as they have been for me. With a large tourny like a GP in mind, knowing that merfolk and zoo will be running rampant because they're so good and cheap, naughts just don't seem too appealing. :/
1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
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Edit: I really don't like playing non-blue duals in blue based decks; I find the number of times they are useful is offset by the number of times you open hands with them and a non-blue basic and have to pitch them back. I don't like Ponder here, because I want to keep that mana open to play Stifle, Spellstutter, Clique, etc. If hitting land drops is a problem with such a light splash, then I'd rather add another land or two, but I haven't had any trouble.
edit: I was playing with it- much better as a 1 of
--me on the sig--
-- Trade Thread -- Buy List --
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
3 Volcanic Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Dark Confidant
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Sower of Temptation
3 Tombstalker
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Terminate
4 Force of Will
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Firespout
2 Perish
4 Duress
Anyone have any experience playing with Scion of Oona or Mistbind Clique? I can make arguments both for and against their inclusion, so some actual play results would be helpful. They seem like the only other playable Faerie cards besides Bitterblossom. I do wish Oona's Blackguard worked with Faeries instead of Rogues; it would be really good in here.
Edit: I suppose reading the thread is a good idea. It pretty much expresses my thoughts on both Scion and Mistbind, but I am still curious if anyone has actually played with them.
Alright, played one game with two Scions in there, and that was enough for me to decide that they aren't very good. They would be very nice if they cost 1U, but that extra mana is crippling. I'm not even going to bother trying to play Mistbinds without more faeries to champion.
also, i would personally keep those sowers in the board.. but again, i guess it just depends on the meta, and i don't like it becasue it always gets killed right away.
spell peirce in the main looks interesting.. i may have to try that out. since bolt and fire/ice have been horrible for me and the first things i side out for peirce.. mine as well run the maindeck.
i'm espcially intersted in how well you're hitting your land drops w/o ponder. sure you want to play or bluff stifle. but i'm running 21 lands with 3 ponders and still get hosed more often than not. plus being able to select quality cards or ship away garbage is really nice. it would be hard for me to give them up. i'd like to hear your opinions on this.
The Sowers are pretty mediocre; you almost always have to tap out to play them, which means you only have Force and Daze to protect them. I'm not really sure what else to play there, though, as none of the other Faeries are any good.
i dont really like sowers in the deck at all, killing the creature is much more effective
--me on the sig--
-- Trade Thread -- Buy List --
Edit: nevermind, bad idea
IF (and i stress the word IF), this direction is the way to go, i'm sure it could be improved upon.
Played a small tourny tonight.. I beat bant counter top and enchantress. lost twice to mana screw (would you keep 5 cards on the draw, with no land, but double force and double spell peirce? i did, and never again).
when this gets rolling, there's no stoping it, and it has answers to most anything. problem is, with out the ponders, i had problems finding land. and the mana gods weren't pleased with me either, i had to mull an awful lot.
3 tombstalker
4 brainstorm
1 top
4 force of will
3 daze
3 spell peirce
4 stifle
4 swords to plowshares
2 engineered explosives
2 enlightened tutor
1 pithing needle
1 moat
2 bitterblossom
2 jitte
4 wasteland
4 poluted delta
4 flooded strand
3 underground sea
3 tundra
1 island
1 karakas
1 acadamy ruins
1 wipe away
2 blue elemental blast
2 llawan, cephalid empress
2 perish
2 deathmark
1 humility
1 propaganda
1 seal of cleansing
1 tormods crypt
1 extirpate
i built this looking at countertop, bant survival, zoo, merfolk and goblins being my main concerns.
2 colors of removal are needed to get around iona (karakas helps if luckily drawn.
maindeck pithing needle stops sruvival, top, vial, many useful targets.. especially game one.
moat just says "i win" against a lot of decks. everything we play flys.. why not.
IF the tutor package is to stay, i really feel like a third is needed.
however, it's really hard to make room. would taking out the stifle/waste package be advisable? spell peirce looses most of it's alure then as well.
am i on to a great new deck here? or am i blinded by my ambition?
please, constructive critisism is very welcome. sleeve it up, or play on MWS, let me know what you think and how to improve it.
i'd really like to get some input/discuss the enlightened tutor package.
Why White over, say, Red? Or why splash?
Also, the misers in your deck, like Moat, Top and MD Pithing Needle seem really, really odd.
I mean, no offense, but I see Moat being played against a deck like Zoo, but when they play 4 MD Pridemage, it won't stay there very long, unless of course you have the miser Needle as well, which I doubt will happen very often.
The reason Enchantress runs it is because they can both protect it and recur it, neither of which you can do.
And personally, if your going to run a tutor package, you should be running 4 Enlightened Tutor. I, however, do not think that package is strong enough in a Fae build.
I would also always play Spell Snare over Spell Peirce in the MD, as a lot of the things you want to hit with Snare, such as Goyf, Enchantress, Pridemage, Goyf, Counterbalance, Goyf, you can't with Pierce. It's really good against the Combo decks, but not so much against almost anything else.
And, personally, your missing not only Mutuvault, but also the second best creature in Legacy, being Vendilion Clique.
I would just run UB Fae, in all honesty, or splash Red for things like Terminate and Fire/Ice, and REB.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
4x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Island
2x Swamp
4x Mutavault
\\ Creatures (17)
4x Tombstalker
4x Sepllstutter Sprite
4x Cloud of Faeries
3x Vendilion Clique
2x Sower of Temptation
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
\\ Other (16)
4x Brainstorm
3x Bitterblossom
2x Smother
1x Doom Blade
2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Echoing Truth
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Extirpate
2x Pithing Needle
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Ravenous Trap
2x Propaganda
2x Mindbreak Trap
1x Doom Blade
1x Smother
I think my list is more "aggro" and less "control".
Even with 2x Smother and 1x Doom Blade the MUs vs aggro based deck is 40/60. But if I can see early Jitte or EE maybe we have a 50/50. Post side with another 2 removal and Propaganda (usually unaspected) we are 60/40.
MUs vs combo decks (ANT, Dream Halls) is not so good... even with active FoW. Post side is a little better with Mindbreak Traps but normally we haven't enought control of the board... 40/60.
MUs vs grave based decks (Dredge, Loam, Threshold) starts 40/60 but going up to 70/30 post side.
In fact the deck suffers the 1st match because is not oriented against a specific kind of enemy deck. But post side, I think, we have the answers we need to change all the MUs.
Let me know what do you think... and sorry for my poor english.
also, no matter what you do, i suspect a fast aggro deck with any kind of reach will *always* be your bane. even standard faeries had that issue.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Yes... but sometimes the doomblade is the only solution (exalted angel, windborn muse, baneslayer angel, iona, rafiq, sower, ...) !
That's why I'm here: trying to upgrade this deck to competitive.
Mistbind is a good choice if we have bitterblossom on the battlefield. If we're playing against aggro we need block attacks to get the 4th turn for mistbind... and then a lot of times we don't have a fae to remove. Tombstalker, instead, remove our faeries in the graveyard and enters even if our board is empty.
I prefer duress to thoughtseize in this deck because we lose a lot of HP with fetches and bb. Sometimes I put it in SB instead of Extirpate... but I really love extirpate!!!
Removing BB is surely a possibility... maybe for Duress or Mistbind. I haven't tried this solution beacause BB helps us a lot against standstill based decks and can block Tarmogoyf while we attack with Tombstalker.
Fast aggro is a problem, of course. Maybe 40/60 is a optimistic value. Maybe in the 1st game is 30/70 and post side 50/50. Post side we have Propaganda (absolutely undervalued) to relent them. Normally they see 1 or max 2 solutions to Propaganda in the entire game... but we have 11 counters. When they have to chose between attack with one creature or playing one creature they're not so aggressive. Piledriver is a 3/2 at his best with Propaganda on the board... and we can resolve a lot of problems with EE, Jitte and BB.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
aether vial is good on its own, but reusing spellstutter sprite is pretty fun...
would need like a swords or jitte to win things though
EDH:
WBGhost Council of OrzhovaBW
WUBErtai, the CorruptedWUB
CONSTRUCTED:
B Smallpox Control
Bloodbraid Elf Sligh RG
UW Draw-Go Weenie
Hosea 13:14
"I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes."
in a deck with that many bitterblossoms and other faeries, it doesn't seem likely that you won't have at least one or two in play. still, test it and see how it goes. I'm still of the opinion that having an instant speed time walk in play is a good way to wreck a lot of decks, even in legacy. I'll proxy up a version in mws and see how it does myself.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Ok... I will try the deck with these changes:
Main deck:
-1 Doom Blade
+2 Ponder
Up to 61 cards with 2 Ponders for better manipulation.
Side:
-1 Doom Blade
+1 Deathmark
-2 Mindbreak Trap
+2 Chalice of the Void
Mindbreak Trap can be used only against Storm-deck, Chalice is good vs Storm-decks and vs Burn too...
I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
This isn't advice about Faeries but with my experience in Legacy so far, if a deck requires 4 of a dual, you can generally get away with 2 of them... I haven't had much issue running two copies of each dual in my various Legacy decks.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Bitterblossom
4 Standstill
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Stifle
3 Daze
4 Terminate
1 Trickbind
4 Force of Will
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
3 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Engineered Plague
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Firespout
2 Relic of Progenitus
Dreadnought races things Tombstalker can only dream of, and it prevents Stifle from being dead half the time. Having your giant finisher cost just one minimizes damage off Bob, so running him and Bitterblossom in the same deck isn't a problem. Bob and Standstill make up the card disadvantage from Nought.
I tried running straight UB for a few games, but I think Firespout really is necessary for the aggro games where you don't drop the early Nought.
my secret?.... i'm really prefering white to red as my splash color. in a tempo deck like this, it's just sooooo much easier to play swords on one color than terminate on TWO of off-colors.
today my only threats were sprites, blossom, and bobs... bob is so good. but my games lasted too long.. swinging with 1/1's and waiting to equip/protect a jitte took too long for whats supposed to be a tempo deck... won most of my matches just before time was called. so even though i loved bob, i don't think i'll be playing him again (more on that in a minute).
i also maindecked 3 jittes, 4 swords, 1 smother and 3 spell peirces. sorry, but i have to keep some of my white board slots top secret for a while, but "those cards" totally won me the games vs zoo and burn, and i'm sure would also be amazing vs goblins and merfolks.
@ theintangiblefatman:
after playing with bob, and wanting a big threat (revealing tombstalker would hurt too much), I've actually been thinking about tring Dreadnaught + bob together... it doesn't hurt to flip, bob makes up for the inherant card disadvantage that comes along with stifling your own creature.
i may still try it, and i'd love to hear about your testing results, but for now i'm going to pass.. because it doesnt' necessarily help our hardest matchups.
and i think you could use some updateing on your list.. 18 lands is going to be pretty hard to manage, especially when you're only running 2 ponders. standstill is just too slow and we can't abuse it as well as other decks. not to mention that we are wanting to do so many other/better things with that mana early on.
oh.. and i'd get rid of plagues. they're not going to help you vs merfolks, probably not against goblins, you've just got better options. the only thing they're actually good against is us.
edit.. ps,
i'm finally getting the hang of explosives. after you play the deck for a while, and learn when/how to use explosives, you really start to realize that firespouts just aren't worth the red splash.
I have decided to drop a Standstill for another Ponder. The Standstills have been good for me, but the deck uses them a lot differently than most other decks, in that you don't want to drop one as soon as possible, so I think three is a better number. The added Ponder is to up the one drop count.
I really hate picking up lands for Daze with a passion, but I'm afraid it is a necessary evil.
The MODO meta is like 20% Goblins at the moment, and Plague is really good against them. It makes Spellstutter and Bitterblossom tokens trade with all of their dudes and Double Plague or Plague plus Jitte means they can't stick a creature.
I have considered dropping Red, because Firespout is a little slow, and Terminate can be replaced. Maybe I'll try splashing for Swords and a few more plows in the sideboard.
if you're talking about path to exile, do NOT do it.
we play mana denial and tempo, giving them a land is not what you want to be doing.
instead, to compliment swords, look at cards like smother, doom blade, diabloic edict, and if you're running naughts instead of tombstalkers, a few ghastly demises can be really good.
also remember, having two colors of removal doesn't let Iona shut you down (in this case, smother is horrible).
edit:
about naught/bob- i tested about 10 games vs mono blue merfolk.. very disapointing results. I'm always forced to use my stifles on vial activations and opposing waste lands. and i haven't actually tested them against zoo or goblins yet, but i imagine i'll have the same problem.. always wanting to stifle their lands, pridemages, lavamancers... or vials, matrons, and ringleaders... always leaving a dead card (naught) stuck in my hand. so i'm not sold yet. people in the counterballance/dreadnaught and death n taxes threads have been talking about using enlighned tutor... maybe only running 2 naughts, 2 e.tutors...? thats twice the card disadvantage too though.
I know it's a ways off, but i'm tring to prepare for GP Columbus. I'm not 100% sure yet, but I think I may be bringing faeries if things keep going as well as they have been for me. With a large tourny like a GP in mind, knowing that merfolk and zoo will be running rampant because they're so good and cheap, naughts just don't seem too appealing. :/