Is it not worth the tempo loss of loosing a turn of burn by playing Blood Moon or Blood Moon on a stick to completely shut down most mana bases?
Really depends - to be honest i feel the sideboard is usually smashed full of other cards to hose certain decks to put in Blood/Magus Moon.
Nevertheless there are some decks out there that they would cripple, it really depends. Usually the tempo loss is ok if it has such a grand effect - Anarchy comes to mind as a card like that. Boils down to if its proper in your meta - buddys packing duals? In they go
Personally, I'd rather just pack Price of Progress in the board to add a threat without losing consistency against decks that are packing lots of non-basics.
You don't slow them down, but you still punish them for it without devoting slots to cards that don't actually help you win directly, which is what Burn wants to do.
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I run browbeat in this deck replacing magma jet. It solves the big drawing problem that red has or hits for a lot more than magmajet. So far, works great in the deck.
I'm loving having the prices main even though I get matches where they aren't relevant. I'm winning most of those matches anyway even having 4 dead cards in the deck.
GREAT thread. I am new to Legacy and the OP has taught me alot.
It seems Rolling Earthquake is hard to find. I am hoping Earthquake would be good enough.
GREAT thread. I am new to Legacy and the OP has taught me alot.
It seems Rolling Earthquake is hard to find. I am hoping Earthquake would be good enough.
GREAT thread. I am new to Legacy and the OP has taught me alot.
It seems Rolling Earthquake is hard to find. I am hoping Earthquake would be good enough.
I personally like Flamebreak better anyways...and its cheap
Except that it is. How many lands do you typically see in a given game? Unless you're running 20+ lands, this isn't going to do more than at most 2 damage. The extra R in the cost hurts this spell a lot. Just run Earthquake or Flamebreak instead.
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Starstorm would be infinitely better. While this one does cost one more mana than earthquakes, it does come at instant speed, which is relevant against Ichorid.
Not quite sure if theres another time you'd rather have it though over Earthquake/Flamebreak.
I think Tormod's Crypt, Mogg Fanatic and/or Keldon Marauders, and REB/Pyroblast is enough to stall ichorid until you burn them. Ichorid wouldn't side out their combo because they have nothing good to sideboard for us (unless they want to sideboard their chain of vapor to return Keldon Marauders) and as a result instant speed sweeper is necessary, but there aren't any good instant speed sweepers to put in for us anyways.
I think Tormod's Crypt, Mogg Fanatic and/or Keldon Marauders, and REB/Pyroblast is enough to stall ichorid until you burn them. Ichorid wouldn't side out their combo because they have nothing good to sideboard for us (unless they want to sideboard their chain of vapor to return Keldon Marauders) and as a result instant speed sweeper is necessary, but there aren't any good instant speed sweepers to put in for us anyways.
I completely agree. Besides, with the Tormod's Crypts and the Red Elemental Blasts in the sideboard (I tend to put in cards like Sirocco in place of Pyroblast, due to personal preference) I still think that Ichorid tends to be a MU that is easily winnable for Burn, we just have to play wisely. (like using 2-for-1's before the critical turn.)
Mind you, if Ichorid is the main deck played in a given metagame, I'm almost starting to like the look of Firestorm, even though it is somewhat sub-par for burn to use.
Shard Volley as a 2-of in some builds, I haven't seen any flame javelines being played in legacy burn.
EDIT: Looking at deckcheck, I actually do see some flame javelines being played. Oh well, I wouldn't play it though. Maybe used in metas that need to burn /4 creatures.
I didn't see any discussion of Jackal Pup or Tattermunge Maniac in the OP. Any particular reason no one runs them?
They make the deck vulnerable to removal. This is burn, not sligh. You play a Jackal Pup, suddenly the removal in their hand is good. You do not want that, so you either run no creatures, or only disposable creatures.
I didn't see any discussion of Jackal Pup or Tattermunge Maniac in the OP. Any particular reason no one runs them?
The whole point of burn, which was actually discussed in the op, is to create virtual card advantage where your opponent's removal spells are dead draws. Suddenly, their opening hand with STP and Wrath is actually a mulligan to 5.
That's also the reason why any creatures that you *do* run have to either be able to sacrifice themselves at will (Mogg Fanatic) or act as pseudo-burn (Keldon Marauders).
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The whole point of burn, which was actually discussed in the op, is to create virtual card advantage where your opponent's removal spells are dead draws. Suddenly, their opening hand with STP and Wrath is actually a mulligan to 5.
That's also the reason why any creatures that you *do* run have to either be able to sacrifice themselves at will (Mogg Fanatic) or act as pseudo-burn (Keldon Marauders).
That makes a lot of sense.
What's the reasoning on Keldon Marauders, though?
Occasionally I could see it going the distance for 5 damage, but most often isn't it just 2 for 2?
What's the reasoning on Keldon Marauders, though?
Occasionally I could see it going the distance for 5 damage, but most often isn't it just 2 for 2?
The reason I run it is because if they don't deal with it, it's 5 damage for 2 mana. When your deck is built around efficient burn spells, you can't ask for much more than that. Even if they do deal with it, or get Goofy out early enough to block, it's 2 damage for 2 mana.
Remember, Mogg Fanatic will still get a STP pointed at it, but that's not enough of a reason not to run it.
Because of the fact that it could go either way on whether it's a 2 damage, 2 mana sorcery (bad) or 5 damage, 2 mana sorcery (good), it's often one of the first cards to get boarded out.
The risk, I find, is worth the reward, although it *does* somewhat take away from the virtual card advantage.
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What's the reasoning on Keldon Marauders, though?
Occasionally I could see it going the distance for 5 damage, but most often isn't it just 2 for 2?
It's true they tend to work against the general idea of virtual card advantage, and/or work as inefficient burn. But I look at it as they either deal 5 damage to the opponent, or they deal 2 and kill an attacking creature, or they deal 2 and prevent possibly large amounts of damage comming your way (on the block vs anything that will kill it). And if you're really lucky they will deal 5 to the opponent and kill off an attacker, though most opponents won't walk into that.
I like them because compared to the alternatives they will almost always deal 2 damage, and either kill off a creature or prolong your life. Against Aggro that is, and otherwise you get 5 damage for 2, which compared to Flamerift that hits both of you for 4... Well I just find it more proactive.
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Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
I wonder if Hell's Thunder will replace Keldon Marauders? It's likely 4 damage for 3 mana, with the possibility of another 4 for 5 mana later on.
There's not much of a point. Yes, you're running a "burn spell" creature because of the haste, but you'd start bogging down your deck with juicy targets for your opponent's removal spells.
Also, if you're running less than 20 lands, you're not necessarily going to be getting 3 lands into play by turn 3 to cast this guy. He fights for deck space with stuff like Flamebreak and Browbeat in the 3 CC spot.
Maybe he'd find room in a more Sligh build, but I don't think he'd make the cut here. Feel free to test it.
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Sorry to jump in here, I've been following the thread
Anyone have a problem with running Pyrostatic Pillars 3x MD? Im feeling a lot of decks drop cards faster and faster nowadays and playing Pillar turn 2 or 3 helps solidify the game. Against decks than need to combo - it's known to wreak havoc. However, even aggro decks that need to drop their hand quickly can get owned by this.
Only issue is when you top deck this card -- however, Magma Jet can somewhat counter-act this. I've been testing with 3x Pillars MD against faster decks and they've been eating an average of 6 life each game when this comes out.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Sorry to jump in here, I've been following the thread
Anyone have a problem with running Pyrostatic Pillars 3x MD? Im feeling a lot of decks drop cards faster and faster nowadays and playing Pillar turn 2 or 3 helps solidify the game. Against decks than need to combo - it's known to wreak havoc. However, even aggro decks that need to drop their hand quickly can get owned by this.
Only issue is when you top deck this card -- however, Magma Jet can somewhat counter-act this. I've been testing with 3x Pillars MD against faster decks and they've been eating an average of 6 life each game when this comes out.
It depends on what other cards you play that hit you as well. For example, I play 4x Flame Rift, 3x Flamebreak, and 2x Barbarian Ring. If I also played PP, I'd almost certainly die too fast to any beats.
Is Mishra's Factory the correct choice over Blinkmoth Nexus when going the Shrapnel Blast route? It seems like most decks run MF over BN, but I'm curious to hear thoughts regarding this choice, since it appears as if there is a lot more aggro these days and flight might be useful.
Also, when facing no blockers on turn 2-X, is activating MF and swinging generally the correct play?
And same situation, but if your opponent has W open?
Lastly, it seems like with the prevalence of counter-top in everything that can cast UU that Flame Javelin is the superior choice over Flames of the Blood Hand. What do you guys think?
Really depends - to be honest i feel the sideboard is usually smashed full of other cards to hose certain decks to put in Blood/Magus Moon.
Nevertheless there are some decks out there that they would cripple, it really depends. Usually the tempo loss is ok if it has such a grand effect - Anarchy comes to mind as a card like that. Boils down to if its proper in your meta - buddys packing duals? In they go
You don't slow them down, but you still punish them for it without devoting slots to cards that don't actually help you win directly, which is what Burn wants to do.
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
4 Flamebreak
4 Incinerate
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Price of Progress
4 Rift Bolt
4 Pithing Needle
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Shattering Spree
I'm loving having the prices main even though I get matches where they aren't relevant. I'm winning most of those matches anyway even having 4 dead cards in the deck.
It seems Rolling Earthquake is hard to find. I am hoping Earthquake would be good enough.
Rolling Thunder is not a bad option.
I personally like Flamebreak better anyways...and its cheap
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Except that it is. How many lands do you typically see in a given game? Unless you're running 20+ lands, this isn't going to do more than at most 2 damage. The extra R in the cost hurts this spell a lot. Just run Earthquake or Flamebreak instead.
Starstorm would be infinitely better. While this one does cost one more mana than earthquakes, it does come at instant speed, which is relevant against Ichorid.
Not quite sure if theres another time you'd rather have it though over Earthquake/Flamebreak.
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If you play both Fanatic and Keldon Marauders you can often stall them to turn 4 (where you can then use starstorm).
Im not saying you should play starstorm, but its an option.
But at that point you might as well play Sulfurous Blast actually...
There really isnt any instant speed mass damage spell you can use against ichorid.
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I completely agree. Besides, with the Tormod's Crypts and the Red Elemental Blasts in the sideboard (I tend to put in cards like Sirocco in place of Pyroblast, due to personal preference) I still think that Ichorid tends to be a MU that is easily winnable for Burn, we just have to play wisely. (like using 2-for-1's before the critical turn.)
Mind you, if Ichorid is the main deck played in a given metagame, I'm almost starting to like the look of Firestorm, even though it is somewhat sub-par for burn to use.
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EDIT: Looking at deckcheck, I actually do see some flame javelines being played. Oh well, I wouldn't play it though. Maybe used in metas that need to burn /4 creatures.
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They make the deck vulnerable to removal. This is burn, not sligh. You play a Jackal Pup, suddenly the removal in their hand is good. You do not want that, so you either run no creatures, or only disposable creatures.
The whole point of burn, which was actually discussed in the op, is to create virtual card advantage where your opponent's removal spells are dead draws. Suddenly, their opening hand with STP and Wrath is actually a mulligan to 5.
That's also the reason why any creatures that you *do* run have to either be able to sacrifice themselves at will (Mogg Fanatic) or act as pseudo-burn (Keldon Marauders).
That makes a lot of sense.
What's the reasoning on Keldon Marauders, though?
Occasionally I could see it going the distance for 5 damage, but most often isn't it just 2 for 2?
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The reason I run it is because if they don't deal with it, it's 5 damage for 2 mana. When your deck is built around efficient burn spells, you can't ask for much more than that. Even if they do deal with it, or get Goofy out early enough to block, it's 2 damage for 2 mana.
Remember, Mogg Fanatic will still get a STP pointed at it, but that's not enough of a reason not to run it.
Because of the fact that it could go either way on whether it's a 2 damage, 2 mana sorcery (bad) or 5 damage, 2 mana sorcery (good), it's often one of the first cards to get boarded out.
The risk, I find, is worth the reward, although it *does* somewhat take away from the virtual card advantage.
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It's true they tend to work against the general idea of virtual card advantage, and/or work as inefficient burn. But I look at it as they either deal 5 damage to the opponent, or they deal 2 and kill an attacking creature, or they deal 2 and prevent possibly large amounts of damage comming your way (on the block vs anything that will kill it). And if you're really lucky they will deal 5 to the opponent and kill off an attacker, though most opponents won't walk into that.
I like them because compared to the alternatives they will almost always deal 2 damage, and either kill off a creature or prolong your life. Against Aggro that is, and otherwise you get 5 damage for 2, which compared to Flamerift that hits both of you for 4... Well I just find it more proactive.
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Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
There's not much of a point. Yes, you're running a "burn spell" creature because of the haste, but you'd start bogging down your deck with juicy targets for your opponent's removal spells.
Also, if you're running less than 20 lands, you're not necessarily going to be getting 3 lands into play by turn 3 to cast this guy. He fights for deck space with stuff like Flamebreak and Browbeat in the 3 CC spot.
Maybe he'd find room in a more Sligh build, but I don't think he'd make the cut here. Feel free to test it.
Anyone have a problem with running Pyrostatic Pillars 3x MD? Im feeling a lot of decks drop cards faster and faster nowadays and playing Pillar turn 2 or 3 helps solidify the game. Against decks than need to combo - it's known to wreak havoc. However, even aggro decks that need to drop their hand quickly can get owned by this.
Only issue is when you top deck this card -- however, Magma Jet can somewhat counter-act this. I've been testing with 3x Pillars MD against faster decks and they've been eating an average of 6 life each game when this comes out.
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It depends on what other cards you play that hit you as well. For example, I play 4x Flame Rift, 3x Flamebreak, and 2x Barbarian Ring. If I also played PP, I'd almost certainly die too fast to any beats.
Also, when facing no blockers on turn 2-X, is activating MF and swinging generally the correct play?
And same situation, but if your opponent has W open?
Lastly, it seems like with the prevalence of counter-top in everything that can cast UU that Flame Javelin is the superior choice over Flames of the Blood Hand. What do you guys think?
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