At any rate, i was thinking more along the lines of an almost "Dragonstorm-ish" style deck, apposed to the Kaervek's Spite version... Here's a Legacy-Legal version:
how do you get rid of the cards in your hand ? if you get stuck with just a single card it will be hard to win
You pray... to whatever entity (or lack there-of) that you believe in!
Actually, i have not yet built or played my idea out. In theory though, i was thinking that emptying my hand wouldn't be tough, with all the fast mana & brainstorms.
I know i'd have a pretty rough time against discard effects, because i need to hold onto gobs of mana in order to cast the game-winning jokulhaups or obliterate...
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I know i'd have a pretty rough time against discard effects, because i need to hold onto gobs of mana in order to cast the game-winning jokulhaups or obliterate...
Thats why we run black and run Kaeravak's spite so you only need 3 black mana! Go dark ritual
I know i'd have a pretty rough time against discard effects, because i need to hold onto gobs of mana in order to cast the game-winning jokulhaups or obliterate...
Thats why we run black and run Kaeravak's spite so you only need 3 black mana! Go dark ritual
Yes, yes, yes... your version is probably better... at least for one-on-one. I'm very fearful of Disenchants, & Counterspells with 3 opponents sitting at the table. At least with Obliterate &/or Jokulhaups, if they do respond with tapping the mana to cast the Disenchant in their hand, i'll still be taking out the entire board... even if my win condition won't be sitting there. I'd much rather take out everyones' "stuff" than just my own. Also, Counterspell against Kaervek's Spite just makes a person wanna cry...
Although, Orim's Chant does help a lot... but can't the opponent still cast Disenchant during your "game-winning" upkeep to make you "not win"?
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"Set the demons free and watch 'em fly!" - Gene Simmons / KISS
Hey, extarbags, I figured I would mention this. I had been using Flash to pop out an Academy Rector using Lion's Eye Diamond, Lotus Petal, and other temporary mana when trying to break it. I abandoned it becuase of other more effective cards. But it did work. Since you are already using Dark Ritual, it does not seem like a stretch to consider some more fast mana.
In short, I am saying that if you switch to all temporary mana and include Lion's Eye Diamond, you could go off without Kaervek's Spite.
Actually, it doesn't do anything for either. It only makes instants and sorceries uncounterable, so it doesn't help Academy Rector, and the sacrifice and discard everything part of Kaervek's Spite, which is the only part that matters, is part of the cost and therefore uncounterable already, so Boseiju doesn't help with that either.
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Actually, it doesn't do anything for either. It only makes instants and sorceries uncounterable, so it doesn't help Academy Rector, and the sacrifice and discard everything part of Kaervek's Spite, which is the only part that matters, is part of the cost and therefore uncounterable already, so Boseiju doesn't help with that either.
It is also hard to spend the colorless mana on a cost that is triple black.
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You should seriously consider running Flash for Academy Rector. I know its kind of a "taboo" card in legacy right now, because of hulk, but you can get any number of game winning enchantments. I can't think of any of the top of my head, but Barren Glory and Divine Intervention (which has already been mentioned) are both fine targets. Well, back to trying to develop legacy Battle of Wits. . . .(thread forthcoming)
Benoit_Blondy - Kaervek's Spite + Academy Rector in play = GG. That cuts 1 card from the combo (I guess your plan was gargadon + LED + Rector for the win?
The deck works pretty well with just 2 colors. No need for red.
Just so you know, I really like this deck. I play a kinda version of this deck online subbing Academy Rector for Lost Auramancers. Great for 2HG or 3HG.
HOw about having an alternate enchantment to grab in case someone just kills your rector. Also, massacre could be helpful if you encounter decks with meddling mage.
It looks like a fun deck to play, I'll be interested to see how it works.
I wouldn't choose an enchanment to reanimate rector since rector removes himself from the game to find the enchantment. I was thinking of something along the lines of a moat or phyrexian arena to draw into another or something like that... I'm sure there are more powerful options out there, those are just off the top of my head.
I've been testing this deck out on MWS a lot lately, and it has been giving me good results. With only one spell needing resolution, it is definately an easy combo to pull off. Most people try to counter the Kaervec's Spite, but after they check the ruling on additional costs they usually call GG. The deck has a huge amount of surprise factor, and no one I have played has known what I was playing before the end of game 1. The only answers I have really seen are Chain of Vapor and Echoing Truth, but they can be dealt with via Duress, Cabal Therapy, and SB Vigilant Martyr.
I have also begun running Phyrexian Arena instead of Grim Tutor, as it is more viable IRL, I don't have the $300 to spend on 3x Tutor. It has been working very well, and makes a great target should your Academy Rector get blown up before you can go off.
Edit: More testing has revealed that Innocent Blood is not very good. I'm going to replace them with Night's Whisper, since I believe the card advantage will be better. Also, Pact of Negation seems to be a bum card as well, going to test without it. Also, I raised the Barren Glory count to 3.
Neat deck...sounds janky until you actually think about it. Only problem is, you gotta make sure they don't have a Disenchant, so discard s a must.
Have you considered going mono-black and aiming to resolve Rector off of a Reanimation shell by chaining rituals? It would allow you to win on turn 2 a lot more (because BBBBB is easier to get than 3WBBB. (i.e. turn 1 Therapy yourself for Rector, Reanimate, then Spite.) Because it's awkward to have to cast the Rector first: BBB is easier off a monoblack manabase. You can run all sorts of rituals and tutors, like Culling the Weak, Cabal Ritual and maybe even Buried Alive.
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One thing to consider is to hit the combo you actually have to spike in response to the triggered ability on the rector, not at End of Turn like you said, or you will end up saccing your cheese...
Hm? No, the Spite is what kills the Rector. The Rector ability doesn't happen before then.
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So I accidentally deleted my deck from MWS while I was setting it up to play The Spoils, and I reworked it a bit when I remade it. Here's the new list:
As you can see, I now employ a few one-of enchantments in case a Rector gets killed early; Arena helps me bounce back (and isn't disastrous to draw instead of the Confidant it replaces anyway), and blocking with Rector to get Prison is handy against several different aggro plans. The transmuters make it slightly easier to find the combo, as well as allowing a silver bullet-ish sideboard approach. This is definitely an improvement.
Xandercoon: I tried your reanimation idea, but it ended up not being great; it's less consistent unless you dedicate a ton of slots to it, and I don't like the idea of cutting back on (very important) answers.
That list looks good, but I feel like you need more ways to find the Rector. Sacred Guide unfortunately won't "work" (I thought it said white creature). Divining Witch seems too risky.
Oh you accidentally listed Confidant twice. Speaking of which, go up to 4 on him, and take out the transmuters for 2nd Arena and 4th Confidant and just draw into the pieces :). You even "have" Grim Tutor, so what do you need transmuters for?
I don't like the transmute sideboard approach, as it is too slow at these costs. I wouldn't bother with it, instead commit to a full sideboard.
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Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
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Evidently, noone cared!
At any rate, i was thinking more along the lines of an almost "Dragonstorm-ish" style deck, apposed to the Kaervek's Spite version... Here's a Legacy-Legal version:
Deckname = "The Cheese"
2 barren glory
Combo pieces:
2 jokulhaups
1 obliterate
4 academy rector
Hand manipulation/search:
4 burning wish
4 brainstorm
Fast mana/Empty the hand:
4 seething song
3 desperate ritual
4 rite of flame
3 simian spirit guide
3 lotus petal
3 chrome mox
3 mox diamond
4 plateau
4 volcanic island
4 tundra
4 flooded strand
2 wooded foothills
2 bloodstained mire
2 jokulhaups
2 obliterate
2 decree of annihilation
You pray... to whatever entity (or lack there-of) that you believe in!
Actually, i have not yet built or played my idea out. In theory though, i was thinking that emptying my hand wouldn't be tough, with all the fast mana & brainstorms.
I know i'd have a pretty rough time against discard effects, because i need to hold onto gobs of mana in order to cast the game-winning jokulhaups or obliterate...
Thats why we run black and run Kaeravak's spite so you only need 3 black mana! Go dark ritual
Yes, yes, yes... your version is probably better... at least for one-on-one. I'm very fearful of Disenchants, & Counterspells with 3 opponents sitting at the table. At least with Obliterate &/or Jokulhaups, if they do respond with tapping the mana to cast the Disenchant in their hand, i'll still be taking out the entire board... even if my win condition won't be sitting there. I'd much rather take out everyones' "stuff" than just my own. Also, Counterspell against Kaervek's Spite just makes a person wanna cry...
Although, Orim's Chant does help a lot... but can't the opponent still cast Disenchant during your "game-winning" upkeep to make you "not win"?
No, it doesn't make you cry, you have already sacced everythign you own (and discarded yoru hand) as a COST to play the Spite
The counterspell will prevent the "lose 5 life" portion though. Bummer.
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In short, I am saying that if you switch to all temporary mana and include Lion's Eye Diamond, you could go off without Kaervek's Spite.
creatures
4 birds of paradise
other spells
4 exploration
It is also hard to spend the colorless mana on a cost that is triple black.
The deck works pretty well with just 2 colors. No need for red.
Just so you know, I really like this deck. I play a kinda version of this deck online subbing Academy Rector for Lost Auramancers. Great for 2HG or 3HG.
Currently 62/265 cards.
It looks like a fun deck to play, I'll be interested to see how it works.
Currently 62/265 cards.
I have also begun running Phyrexian Arena instead of Grim Tutor, as it is more viable IRL, I don't have the $300 to spend on 3x Tutor. It has been working very well, and makes a great target should your Academy Rector get blown up before you can go off.
Edit: More testing has revealed that Innocent Blood is not very good. I'm going to replace them with Night's Whisper, since I believe the card advantage will be better. Also, Pact of Negation seems to be a bum card as well, going to test without it. Also, I raised the Barren Glory count to 3.
Have you considered going mono-black and aiming to resolve Rector off of a Reanimation shell by chaining rituals? It would allow you to win on turn 2 a lot more (because BBBBB is easier to get than 3WBBB. (i.e. turn 1 Therapy yourself for Rector, Reanimate, then Spite.) Because it's awkward to have to cast the Rector first: BBB is easier off a monoblack manabase. You can run all sorts of rituals and tutors, like Culling the Weak, Cabal Ritual and maybe even Buried Alive.
Creator of Thoughtless Sensei and Morph Aggro
Gaymer
Raccoons please
My artworkz
"We've made OVER NINE THOUSAND unique cards."
- MaRo, October 8th, 2007
IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAND!!!!!
Hm? No, the Spite is what kills the Rector. The Rector ability doesn't happen before then.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
3 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Godless Shrine
2 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
Salami
4 Academy Rector
4 Kaervek's Spite
Fixins'
4 Duress
4 Orim's Chant
4 Grim Tutor
3 Dark Confidant
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Ghostly Prison
2 Barren Glory
2 Dimir House Guard
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Ghostly Prison
2 Rule of Law
1 Massacre
1 Damnation
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Darkblast
1 Swords to Plowshares
As you can see, I now employ a few one-of enchantments in case a Rector gets killed early; Arena helps me bounce back (and isn't disastrous to draw instead of the Confidant it replaces anyway), and blocking with Rector to get Prison is handy against several different aggro plans. The transmuters make it slightly easier to find the combo, as well as allowing a silver bullet-ish sideboard approach. This is definitely an improvement.
Xandercoon: I tried your reanimation idea, but it ended up not being great; it's less consistent unless you dedicate a ton of slots to it, and I don't like the idea of cutting back on (very important) answers.
Sacred Guide unfortunately won't "work" (I thought it said white creature). Divining Witch seems too risky.
Oh you accidentally listed Confidant twice. Speaking of which, go up to 4 on him, and take out the transmuters for 2nd Arena and 4th Confidant and just draw into the pieces :). You even "have" Grim Tutor, so what do you need transmuters for?
I don't like the transmute sideboard approach, as it is too slow at these costs. I wouldn't bother with it, instead commit to a full sideboard.
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!