If you go for Italian ones Ebay should have some for <$20, English ones should only hover around $20, although I have seen some recent ones that were 25+.
If you don't read spoiled cards don't read this post.
Anyways wizards just released there new counterspell
Pact of Negation 0
Instant
~ is Blue
Counter Target Spell
During your next upkeep pay 3UU you lose the game.
Anyways this card has serious thinking potential in this deck. If you play it the turn your comboing out to stop a kill card, it is better then a Force of Will. On the other hand if your using Force pre comboing out. It is 100% a dead card. Either way I think it deserves atleast a 1 of in the sideboard for cunning wish use (same with the black kill spell mentioned earlier). And possibly this could split with some of the 8 counter spots in the deck, maybe 3 remand, 3 fow and 2 of this.
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That's the remarkable thing about life. It's never so bad that it can't get worse
Calvin and Hobbes Cube Tutor
Here's my problem with the U Pact in Solidarity vs. FoW: (never thought I'd compare a card to FoW legitimately...)
1) It's a card you (almost) simply cannot play before the turn in which you go off.
2) Playing it almost signals to your opponent that you are either going off, or that you are going to be leaving a large hole in your defenses next turn. (partially taking away from Solidarity's idea of "I can beat you at any turn, in any step, at any time", and generally the primary advantage of this deck over Spring Tide)
3) In experience, very few (<5%) of the games I have played have been lost only due to me having to remove a needed card using FoW in order to counter a spell, and I can't speak on if I could have succeeded in those games. This is the one situation I can directly say that this new Pact would be better than Force of Will. I can think of several situations where I would rather see Force of Will, almost all of them because the situation where I would require either counter is the difference between 1 life and losing the game.
In terms of replacing Remand, I feel that 4 is a number that should be kept in the deck, simply because you need them for two purposes: early-game countering w/o using FoW, and while going off to chain Brain Freezes.
In terms of sideboard, this would be an alright fit, but I think the role that it would fill would be so niche that it simply can be overshadowed with a more versatile counterspell.
If you don't read spoiled cards don't read this post.
Anyways wizards just released there new counterspell
Pact of Negation 0
Instant
~ is Blue
Counter Target Spell
During your next upkeep pay 3UU you lose the game.
Anyways this card has serious thinking potential in this deck. If you play it the turn your comboing out to stop a kill card, it is better then a Force of Will. On the other hand if your using Force pre comboing out. It is 100% a dead card. Either way I think it deserves atleast a 1 of in the sideboard for cunning wish use (same with the black kill spell mentioned earlier). And possibly this could split with some of the 8 counter spots in the deck, maybe 3 remand, 3 fow and 2 of this.
I won't get on this for too long, but this card is NOT GOOD. Whether we're talking solidarity or pretty much any control deck. You either can't use it until your going off or you have 5 mana. At either point, thats pretty limiting. Even in a typical control deck this card has the same limitations. control doesnt want to ever tap out during their upkeep, they need mana open to do stuff. So its bad before 5 mana and its bad after 5 mana, so its not playable IMO.
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EDH Decks:
UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide) B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage) BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn) WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God) W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
If you go for Italian ones Ebay should have some for <$20, English ones should only hover around $20, although I have seen some recent ones that were 25+.
I'm probably the only magic player in existance who's annoyed that I can't get the english ones cheaper than the foreign cards. Most of the legacy/vintage guys I know loves them some foreign cards, but not me!
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EDH Decks:
UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide) B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage) BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn) WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God) W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
Well Italian Resets are by far cheaper than English Resets. So don't be surprised that you can't find English Resets that are cheaper than Italian ones.
Well Italian Resets are by far cheaper than English Resets. So don't be surprised that you can't find English Resets that are cheaper than Italian ones.
Oh, that doesnt surprise me, I'm just about the only legacy/vintage player who doesn't PREFER foreign cards is all, lol
I think you're missing the point here : nobody is talking about paying the 5 mana. The idea is that the Pact is a free-spell protecting your combo-out from Orim's Chant, counterspells and such.
I, for one, honestly am not sure if it really doesn't fit. On the turn you go off, it's nice but before that it's dead. I think Belgareth actually asked the right question : what do you take out to fit it in ? FoW is obviously better, as is Remand.
The way I see it now, it could be worth considering it in the side as up to 2-off.
Threshold's matchup could be improved with it, although it doesn't really stop Meddling Mage. It also doesn't stop Chalice against Faerie Stompy but it stops their FoW. In short, it isn't a god-sent but it could improve the harder matchups. It's, imo, worth spending time to look at.
I definitely agree, no more than a 2-of, but in reality I don't think even that many. You can't take out Force of Will at all, because then you'll just lose to combo-hate. The problem as I see it with adding it to this deck is where to do you put it? Do you take out opt? Can you make it a wish target? At the moment, that is actually what I'm thinking is that you make it a wish target maybe. I've heard people say opt, but taking out the cantrips in the deck is going to be troublesome when you need to actually get the combo going. Remand isnt going anywhere either, its way too good. Flash of insight is still amazing, reset, high tide, turnabout are all necessary as well. meditate isnt going anywhere either. so i'm not sure where to put this new card.
Sort of a sidenote, how often do people try to counter Cunning Wish? That would make a difference how I feel about possibly running this card in the board.
Posts merged...please try not to doublepost any more, ok?
UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide) B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage) BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn) WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God) W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
With Solidarity it all depends on the game state. Also if you have Remands you can always counter your wish to try again the next turn if you really need it. Pact of Negation has no place in this deck imo. Unless you actually need it, it's a dead card and I would rather it be an Impulse or something else 99% of the time. If it is in the sideboard, you're wasting a wish on it, when you can probably wish for the same spell you're casting or if you have used a flashed back Flash of Insight you can probbaly just wish for a Force of Will and counter it. Also could wish for Twincast. Really how hard is it to combo through counters? Not hard imo.
Obviously Pact of Negation does not go in this deck. Force of Will is meant to serve several purposes:
- Counter Aether Vial
- Counter Goblin Lackey
- Counter Chalice of the Void
- Counter Tanglewire
- Counter Meddling Mage
etc.
etc.
It is not meant to protect our combo because we need no protection. If you need to use force of will mid-combo you're probably doing something wrong.
Yes, I've dropped Blue Elemental Blast. I've taken a lot of flak on the SCG boards for this proposal, but it is my belief that Goblins and Mono-Red Sligh are not as big a threat to Solidarity as Black Stax, White Stax, Deadguy Ale, and Threshold are. Teferi's Response is a perfect answer to Sinkhole and Rishadan Port. Slaughter Pact is a great way to kill Meddling Mage so that you can combo off. Wipe Away, IMHO, is better than Chain of Vapor at what it does.
I've also considered making some minor changes to the deck, mostly revolving around replacing something with Mystical Tutor and/or Street Wraith. This is the first build I'll be testing post-rotation:
hey guys i'm nearing the end of completing a few 1.5 decks and i'm trying to decide on what to play with in tournaments if i can find some around here since it's standard and draft, 1.x when it's season but anyways i am 8 cards away from finishing solidarity, 14 away from g/b train wreck, and 12 away from vial goblins. I know the weaknesses and strong points of each deck pretty much, i'm a little shakey on playing solidarity but i do know when to go off, well anyways can anyone help me decide on what to actually play and what to expect when i do goto a 1.5 tourney
Solidarity is a headache to play if playing around hate for a majority of the time. Goblins can just win with random bs draws. However it depends on what you like to play. I prefer combo so I play TES and SOlidarity but also have Red Death and Goblins. Just playtest and see which deck you enjoy most so that you can become a skilled pilot with said deck.
I would say if you do start playing solidarity to realize that its a tough deck to play, especially against tough matchups. Depending on the metagame that you see, I know our legacy events tend to have usually 1-2 dead guy variants running about, usually 2-3 goblins decks, and even a staxxx deck from time to time. All of this is going to test your ability to play solidarity because any of those would be tough matches. Just remember that its going to take some time unless your name is Gearhart
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EDH Decks:
UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide) B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage) BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn) WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God) W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
hey guys i'm nearing the end of completing a few 1.5 decks and i'm trying to decide on what to play with in tournaments if i can find some around here since it's standard and draft, 1.x when it's season but anyways i am 8 cards away from finishing solidarity, 14 away from g/b train wreck, and 12 away from vial goblins. I know the weaknesses and strong points of each deck pretty much, i'm a little shakey on playing solidarity but i do know when to go off, well anyways can anyone help me decide on what to actually play and what to expect when i do goto a 1.5 tourney
I am just curioius to what 8 cards you are missing from solidarity, I'm guessing 4 fow and 4 reset.
My self I am only 1 card shy, a remand. I'm using an opt in its slot till I get one.
I am thinking of cutting stroke of genuis from the sb. I never am in a situation where I need to draw a **** ton of cards, have excess mana to amke it worth it, where meditate won't do the job. I've been playing with a Words of Wisdom in its stead.
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That's the remarkable thing about life. It's never so bad that it can't get worse
Calvin and Hobbes Cube Tutor
The most traditional way is that when it has been revealed, you Remand your Brain Freeze (original copy) on the stack and replay it, above the trigger of the Gaea's Blessing. You do need a method of instant-speed draw on the opponent, then; most decks run either Stroke of Genius (more common) or Words of Wisdom (less common) in the sideboard.
How do we deal with a gaea's blessing revealed from the library?
Find a wish and stifle the trigger. Once solidarity starts to go off, it goes off. There's really nothing that can stop it short of divine intervention.
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'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me to take my place amongst them in the halls of Valhalla. Where the brave may live forever.
heh sorry i haven't been paying attention to this thread as of late....but i just took care of solidarity tonight, pringlesman it actually wasn't the force of wills, it was 2 resets, the strands, and deltas...i get paid midnight tuesday and already won all the cards with 2 deltas to spare, but anyways i hope i can get some practice in soon, i've got the same build as gearhart but i may tweak the fetch land base to 8 instead of 6 since alot of people are doing that and i agree it is better to have more fetch since land is dead when you're going off and it's never good to draw into land
heh sorry i haven't been paying attention to this thread as of late....but i just took care of solidarity tonight, pringlesman it actually wasn't the force of wills, it was 2 resets, the strands, and deltas...i get paid midnight tuesday and already won all the cards with 2 deltas to spare, but anyways i hope i can get some practice in soon, i've got the same build as gearhart but i may tweak the fetch land base to 8 instead of 6 since alot of people are doing that and i agree it is better to have more fetch since land is dead when you're going off and it's never good to draw into land
There really isn't too much of a difference of six and eight fetchies, I personally run 6 as I feel 8 is too many, however to each their own. Right now it wouldn't be a good choice to be playing Solidarity in tournaments, imo. Hulk Flash is superior to it and the decks that are geared to beat it (Fish, Red Death, BW even?, Thresh) are not very good matchups for Solidarity. However, if Flash is banned then I think it woulnd't be a bad choice .
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I'm thinking something like
1-2 Twincast (leaning towards one)
1 Stroke of Genuis
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chains of Vapor
1 Mediatate
1 Brainfreeze
That gives me 8-10 done, what should I put in the other 5-7.
The primer for this deck needs to be updated.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
3 Twincast instead of 1-2
1 Rebuild
For mono-blue version ofcourse.
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:symw:White Weenie:symw:
-Extended-
:symr:Goblins:symr:
-Legacy-
:symu:Solidarity:symu:
3x Twincast
2x Brainfreeze
1x Meditate
1x Turnabout
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Echoing Truth
1x Rebuild
1x Stroke of Genius
[High~Light Studios]
2x Twincast
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Echoing Truth
1x Rebuild
1x Evacuation
1x Stifle
1x Brain Freeze
1x Turnabout
1x Meditate
1x Stroke of Genius
...I play one Twincast main as well
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Anyways wizards just released there new counterspell
Pact of Negation 0
Instant
~ is Blue
Counter Target Spell
During your next upkeep pay 3UU you lose the game.
Anyways this card has serious thinking potential in this deck. If you play it the turn your comboing out to stop a kill card, it is better then a Force of Will. On the other hand if your using Force pre comboing out. It is 100% a dead card. Either way I think it deserves atleast a 1 of in the sideboard for cunning wish use (same with the black kill spell mentioned earlier). And possibly this could split with some of the 8 counter spots in the deck, maybe 3 remand, 3 fow and 2 of this.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
1) It's a card you (almost) simply cannot play before the turn in which you go off.
2) Playing it almost signals to your opponent that you are either going off, or that you are going to be leaving a large hole in your defenses next turn. (partially taking away from Solidarity's idea of "I can beat you at any turn, in any step, at any time", and generally the primary advantage of this deck over Spring Tide)
3) In experience, very few (<5%) of the games I have played have been lost only due to me having to remove a needed card using FoW in order to counter a spell, and I can't speak on if I could have succeeded in those games. This is the one situation I can directly say that this new Pact would be better than Force of Will. I can think of several situations where I would rather see Force of Will, almost all of them because the situation where I would require either counter is the difference between 1 life and losing the game.
In terms of replacing Remand, I feel that 4 is a number that should be kept in the deck, simply because you need them for two purposes: early-game countering w/o using FoW, and while going off to chain Brain Freezes.
In terms of sideboard, this would be an alright fit, but I think the role that it would fill would be so niche that it simply can be overshadowed with a more versatile counterspell.
静
I won't get on this for too long, but this card is NOT GOOD. Whether we're talking solidarity or pretty much any control deck. You either can't use it until your going off or you have 5 mana. At either point, thats pretty limiting. Even in a typical control deck this card has the same limitations. control doesnt want to ever tap out during their upkeep, they need mana open to do stuff. So its bad before 5 mana and its bad after 5 mana, so its not playable IMO.
UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide)
B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage)
BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn)
WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God)
W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
I'm probably the only magic player in existance who's annoyed that I can't get the english ones cheaper than the foreign cards. Most of the legacy/vintage guys I know loves them some foreign cards, but not me!
UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide)
B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage)
BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn)
WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God)
W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
Oh, that doesnt surprise me, I'm just about the only legacy/vintage player who doesn't PREFER foreign cards is all, lol
I definitely agree, no more than a 2-of, but in reality I don't think even that many. You can't take out Force of Will at all, because then you'll just lose to combo-hate. The problem as I see it with adding it to this deck is where to do you put it? Do you take out opt? Can you make it a wish target? At the moment, that is actually what I'm thinking is that you make it a wish target maybe. I've heard people say opt, but taking out the cantrips in the deck is going to be troublesome when you need to actually get the combo going. Remand isnt going anywhere either, its way too good. Flash of insight is still amazing, reset, high tide, turnabout are all necessary as well. meditate isnt going anywhere either. so i'm not sure where to put this new card.
Sort of a sidenote, how often do people try to counter Cunning Wish? That would make a difference how I feel about possibly running this card in the board.
Posts merged...please try not to doublepost any more, ok?
UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide)
B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage)
BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn)
WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God)
W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
- Counter Aether Vial
- Counter Goblin Lackey
- Counter Chalice of the Void
- Counter Tanglewire
- Counter Meddling Mage
etc.
etc.
It is not meant to protect our combo because we need no protection. If you need to use force of will mid-combo you're probably doing something wrong.
1 Echoing Truth
1 Meditate
1 Rebuild
2 Slaughter Pact
1 Stroke of Genius
2 Teferi's Response
1 Turnabout
3 Twincast
1 Wipe Away
Yes, I've dropped Blue Elemental Blast. I've taken a lot of flak on the SCG boards for this proposal, but it is my belief that Goblins and Mono-Red Sligh are not as big a threat to Solidarity as Black Stax, White Stax, Deadguy Ale, and Threshold are. Teferi's Response is a perfect answer to Sinkhole and Rishadan Port. Slaughter Pact is a great way to kill Meddling Mage so that you can combo off. Wipe Away, IMHO, is better than Chain of Vapor at what it does.
I've also considered making some minor changes to the deck, mostly revolving around replacing something with Mystical Tutor and/or Street Wraith. This is the first build I'll be testing post-rotation:
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
10 Island
Spells
1 Brain Freeze
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
2 Flash of Insight
4 Force of Will
3 High Tide
4 Impulse
3 Meditate
2 Mystical Tutor
2 Opt
4 Remand
4 Reset
3 Street Wraith
3 Turnabout
1 Twincast
2 Brain Freeze
1 Echoing Truth
1 Meditate
1 Rebuild
2 Slaughter Pact
1 Stroke of Genius
2 Teferi's Response
1 Turnabout
3 Twincast
1 Wipe Away
Other cards I'll be testing in and out of the deck are Disrupt and Divert.
** DigitalLogic on MTGO **
creatures
4 birds of paradise
other spells
4 exploration
UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide)
B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage)
BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn)
WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God)
W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
thanks
I am just curioius to what 8 cards you are missing from solidarity, I'm guessing 4 fow and 4 reset.
My self I am only 1 card shy, a remand. I'm using an opt in its slot till I get one.
I am thinking of cutting stroke of genuis from the sb. I never am in a situation where I need to draw a **** ton of cards, have excess mana to amke it worth it, where meditate won't do the job. I've been playing with a Words of Wisdom in its stead.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
静
creatures
4 birds of paradise
other spells
4 exploration
There really isn't too much of a difference of six and eight fetchies, I personally run 6 as I feel 8 is too many, however to each their own. Right now it wouldn't be a good choice to be playing Solidarity in tournaments, imo. Hulk Flash is superior to it and the decks that are geared to beat it (Fish, Red Death, BW even?, Thresh) are not very good matchups for Solidarity. However, if Flash is banned then I think it woulnd't be a bad choice .