If you're trying to play right said red, then you should really read the primer and/or the old descussion thread. There are numerous explainations as to why your creature and land selections are subpar. I'll break it down like this:
-The only creature that should see the maindeck is Mogg Fanatic
-The only land that should see the maindeck Mountain (perhaps 2-3 barbarian ring)
-The only artifact that should see the main deck is Urza's Bauble
If you're trying to build some sort of a hybrid deck, you're just making a subpar version of both.
That if we had more instants, we could respond to the other player doing stuff. Like leatal Damagae.....Ect. That means cutting Vocanic Hammer & Fire Ambush, And puting in Chain of Plasma...
Also I was thinking about cutting one Fireblast. I always use the alt cost of it & I never like seeing in my opening hand. And putting in some more low cc burn.
That if we had more instants, we could respond to the other player doing stuff. Like leatal Damagae.....Ect. That means cutting Vocanic Hammer & Fire Ambush, And puting in Chain of Plasma...
Also I was thinking about cutting one Fireblast. I always use the alt cost of it & I never like seeing in my opening hand. And putting in some more low cc burn.
It is just a thought..........
I don't see why those cards were in the main to begin with. There were already plenty of better choices.
Soggy Pizza Pockets what is your opinion of shrapnel blast? And why do you run browbeat ? 5 damage for 3 at sorc speed is not that good. Drawing 3 cards is nice, but you just gave them another turn.
Soggy Pizza Pockets what is your opinion of shrapnel blast? And why do you run browbeat ? 5 damage for 3 at sorc speed is not that good. Drawing 3 cards is nice, but you just gave them another turn.
Shrapnel blast is bad because then you have to add more artifacts to the deck to support it. Artifacts that can be destroyed. Then all of a sudden you have dead cards in your hand.
I run Browbeat because of the fact that it is pretty lose-lose for your opponent. 5 Damage is quite a bit for 3 mana even if it is sorcery speed, If they give you 3 cards, then you're pretty likely to win in the next 1-2 turns due to what you've drawn. This deck needs some way to keep the tempo going. If you putter out, you're pretty much screwed. Browbeat helps to prevent that.
It is sightly different for a PURE burn, but still follows the same philosophy.
I still need a Sb and any ideas to improve the deck would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
My Decks:
Mono-B Haakon control B
Big Red R
Standard :
Z00WRG
Dragons FTW RU
[Izzet]
Acolyte Of Elemental Synthesis
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Mindslaver is the meanest card in all of MtG, and it should read "Tap, sac it, completely **** over target opponent in the worst way possible without benefit of Vaseline."
@Soggy Pizza Pockets: The whole 'Philosophy of Fire' is what the deck is generally built on. I don't really like that Urza's Bauble is in this type deck. It's generally overrated. Also, Fireblast is a 4-of, no need to debate that. Also, even though Browbeat tends to win games, I don't like having to Time Walk my opponent to have a chance of winning. Also, Culling Scalesis a no, as games tend not to last too long, and trying to cast a sub-optimal 3cc artifact on 18 lands is not tech. Increase the land count to 19, as you can more likely cast out multiple spells on turn 3.
Would suggest Tangle wire as good SB tech... anyrate still against brow beat, i want my opponent dead on turn 4, BB is like Shino said 'a time walk'. Thoughts on Ankh of Mishra?
@Soggy Pizza Pockets: The whole 'Philosophy of Fire' is what the deck is generally built on. I don't really like that Urza's Bauble is in this type deck. It's generally overrated. Also, Fireblast is a 4-of, no need to debate that. Also, even though Browbeat tends to win games, I don't like having to Time Walk my opponent to have a chance of winning. Also, Culling Scalesis a no, as games tend not to last too long, and trying to cast a sub-optimal 3cc artifact on 18 lands is not tech. Increase the land count to 19, as you can more likely cast out multiple spells on turn 3.
Bauble Comment:
It costs 0, the results are pretty instant, it helps to compensate for the 18 lands, and of course it makes for a 56-card deck. "Overrated" isn't what I would use to describe this card. I would just say "solid."
Browbeat Comment:
It's either giving them 1 time walk or giving them several when you're just drawing into a land pocket. And, of course, if they take the five, then it's all gravy.
Culling Scales Comment:
I'm not particularly good with sideboards especially with (IMO) the worst color in magic.
Will have to test this deck more, but I think that this is the decklist I will try to complete offline. I think that Blue and White are the 2 colours I need to sb hate, and Price of Progress is such a good card that I am still tempted to md them.
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Eternal Masters 2015 Legacy Champion. Has an unnatural love towards perfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.
I think that Urza's bauble would be one of the best choices to maindeck. It effectively makes your deck into 56 cards. There is also Mishras bauble coming out in Coldsnap and it costs the same thing except it just looks at the top of the library. I wonder if we could put in 4 of that and make it a 52 card deck....:rolleyes:
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"Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight."
About making a smaller deck theory - it concerns me about the land balance factor.
Also I think Coldsnap maybe be offering up some cards worth looking into.
Anyone bringing some burn to the Gen Con Legacy championships ?
it's all good
thanks and enjoy
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Tidbits of George Carlin : “I like it when a flower or a little tuft of grass grows through a crack in the concrete. It's so f***in' heroic.” "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." "Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”
Nope, I don't see any card that I would like to add from Coldsnap into the burn deck. The cards that I thought about considering were Braid of Fire for enough mana to power out stuff like Browbeat and play spells on turn 3, and Surging Flame because a double mise is really powerful (even though it won't happen much). But even these cards are too weak/not needed for the burn deck.
I think that most burn decks are pretty consistent nowadays for Legacy. Unless there is a release of some uber-broken burn (Standard power level wise anyway), then there is gonna be the same lists, with fluctuating optional cards.
Nope, I don't see any card that I would like to add from Coldsnap into the burn deck. The cards that I thought about considering were Braid of Fire for enough mana to power out stuff like Browbeat and play spells on turn 3, and Surging Flame because a double mise is really powerful (even though it won't happen much). But even these cards are too weak/not needed for the burn deck.
I think that most burn decks are pretty consistent nowadays for Legacy. Unless there is a release of some uber-broken burn (Standard power level wise anyway), then there is gonna be the same lists, with fluctuating optional cards.
Yeah, those were the cards I also was looking and can't see them fitting in at this point.
I also have been eyeing this card to see if can be helpful :
it's all good
thanks and enjoy
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Tidbits of George Carlin : “I like it when a flower or a little tuft of grass grows through a crack in the concrete. It's so f***in' heroic.” "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." "Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”
Nah, I have serious doubts about Lightning Storm's ability in a deck like this. The benefits of discarding lands are outweighed by the fact that 99.999% of people you play against are holding and in their hand, and are more likely to be holding multiples. It's an awesome card in Standard or Extended, but it just doesn't have the power or the efficiency needed for the deck.
It's just at the "I'm not seeing any Goblin players this week" stage. Hopefully, I can complete this in real life, so I can run it for proper tourneys.
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Eternal Masters 2015 Legacy Champion. Has an unnatural love towards perfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.
Nah, I have serious doubts about Lightning Storm's ability in a deck like this. The benefits of discarding lands are outweighed by the fact that 99.999% of people you play against are holding and in their hand, and are more likely to be holding multiples. It's an awesome card in Standard or Extended, but it just doesn't have the power or the efficiency needed for the deck.
It's just at the "I'm not seeing any Goblin players this week" stage. Hopefully, I can complete this in real life, so I can run it for proper tourneys.
deck looks okay but flame break in sb? maybe not, take out fire ambush and replace it with that. for the other 3 maybe something like.. o say.. artifact?
IMHO Flamebreak is a much better choice over Flamerift. It costs 1 cc more but is a board cleanser that deals additional 3 damage to your opponent. When your faced with a growing army you need a reset button. You don't wana end up wasting your burn spells on his critters.
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"Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight."
I tried running Flame Rift when I was in the infancy of making this deck. However, it only was useful versus Control, and the average Goblin player creams him/herself when you play this.
Also, I find Flamebreak to be effective when playing Goblins only. Otherwise, it's an overcosted 3 damage spell to control decks.
One thing I'll try do do is to get Burn back to the Competitive section, but I think it would take a minor miracle to do so. Anyhow, I'll be testing the deck like a crazed kid and will post up results in a week or so.
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Eternal Masters 2015 Legacy Champion. Has an unnatural love towards perfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.
I have a couple opinions... sorry if they've been addressed before, but I don't know where else to look if not in this thread.
1) Grim Lavamancer is amazing in this deck... he provides very similar staying power as Browbeat does in some builds, and he is definate damage, not just an extra few cards that may/may not be lands. I could see the argument that he attracts Swords all day long, but who the hell isn't going to side out all their removal against you in G2/G3... I think he is a staple in this deck, no matter what the metagame(well, somewhat balanced metagames, anyway). Flame away...
2) Why doesn't anyone use Sulfuric Vortex or Price of Progress in the MD? I MD 3 copies of each, and without them, I don't think the deck does nearly as well against RG Survival, Angel Stompy, Threshold, etc... There are often times where i'm staring down a Turn-2/3 Angel(backed up by MoR or the like) or an army of 4/4 bears, and there is no way for me to get in that last few points of damage, especially when a Jitte is involved... And I think vortex and price each serve their purposed against the right decks, whether it's getting 6-8 damage in against survival(at instant speed), or disallowing Jitte, Armadillo Cloak, or an opponent STPing their own creature to stay alive. In certain metas, it might be fine to just run 32ish 3 damage spells along with 4 fanatics, 4 baubles, and a couple flamebreaks, but in my meta, there are so many other ways for opponents to delay death.
I'd like suggestions, if possible... other than the usual "don't MD price, it's suboptimal."
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@<<Raging Ascetic>>: I've been running Price of Progress maindeck as of late, as it's so amazingly good. Seriously, me so horny, me love PoP long time. :xd:
Your deck is an interesting build. I generally don't run Grim Lavamancer based on the targettability issue, and the fact that mana will be hard to come by, but I will see whether it is a powerhouse I guess.
Tidbits of George Carlin : “I like it when a flower or a little tuft of grass grows through a crack in the concrete. It's so f***in' heroic.” "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." "Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”
If you're going to run sligh, then go with this:
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Plateau
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Slith Firewalker
4 Jackal Pup
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Ball Lightning
4 Chain Lightning
4 Incinerate
4 Fireblast
3 Ankh of Mishra
2 Cursed Scroll
3 Orim's Chant
3 Disenchant
3 Tormod's Crypt
6 (open slot)
If you're trying to play right said red, then you should really read the primer and/or the old descussion thread. There are numerous explainations as to why your creature and land selections are subpar. I'll break it down like this:
-The only creature that should see the maindeck is Mogg Fanatic
-The only land that should see the maindeck Mountain (perhaps 2-3 barbarian ring)
-The only artifact that should see the main deck is Urza's Bauble
If you're trying to build some sort of a hybrid deck, you're just making a subpar version of both.
That if we had more instants, we could respond to the other player doing stuff. Like leatal Damagae.....Ect. That means cutting Vocanic Hammer & Fire Ambush, And puting in Chain of Plasma...
Also I was thinking about cutting one Fireblast. I always use the alt cost of it & I never like seeing in my opening hand. And putting in some more low cc burn.
It is just a thought..........
I don't see why those cards were in the main to begin with. There were already plenty of better choices.
I'll repost my build:
4 Urza's Bauble
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Incinerate
4 Flame Rift
4 Magma Jet
4 Chain of Plasma
4 Flamebreak
3 Fireblast
4 Pithing Needle
4 Sirrocco
4 Culling Scales
3 Tormod's Crypt
Shrapnel blast is bad because then you have to add more artifacts to the deck to support it. Artifacts that can be destroyed. Then all of a sudden you have dead cards in your hand.
I run Browbeat because of the fact that it is pretty lose-lose for your opponent. 5 Damage is quite a bit for 3 mana even if it is sorcery speed, If they give you 3 cards, then you're pretty likely to win in the next 1-2 turns due to what you've drawn. This deck needs some way to keep the tempo going. If you putter out, you're pretty much screwed. Browbeat helps to prevent that.
4x Lava Runner
4x Viashino Sandstalker
4x Keldon Champion
3x Viashino Cutthroat
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Incinerate
4x Fireblast
3x Ruby Medallion
3x Pyroclasm
3x Flamebreak
3x AEther Vial
2x Grafted Wargear
14x Mountain
4x Rishadan Port
It is sightly different for a PURE burn, but still follows the same philosophy.
I still need a Sb and any ideas to improve the deck would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Thx to Aether for the awesome Banner
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=18949
My Decks:
Mono-B Haakon control B
Big Red R
Standard :
Z00WRG
Dragons FTW RU
@The Firemind: I don't think that Ponza decks should be posted in here. Here's a starting suggestion MD:
-3 Ruby Medallion
-3 Pyroclasm
-3 AEther Vial
-2 Grafted Wargear
-4 Keldon Champion
+4 Chain Lightning
+11 Whatever anyone else suggests
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast
Bauble Comment:
It costs 0, the results are pretty instant, it helps to compensate for the 18 lands, and of course it makes for a 56-card deck. "Overrated" isn't what I would use to describe this card. I would just say "solid."
Browbeat Comment:
It's either giving them 1 time walk or giving them several when you're just drawing into a land pocket. And, of course, if they take the five, then it's all gravy.
Culling Scales Comment:
I'm not particularly good with sideboards especially with (IMO) the worst color in magic.
But I digress, here's the deck I'm using online atm.
19 Mountain
Creatures (4)
4 Mogg Fanatic
Spells (37)
4 Fireblast
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Magma Jet
4 Incinerate
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Fire Ambush
3 Flamebreak
2 Final Fortune
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Sirroco
3 Anarchy
4 Price of Progress
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast
4 Mogg Fanatic
Spells:
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Fireblast
4 Magma Jet
3 Flamebreak
2 Price of Progress
4 Incinerate
4 Chain of Plasma
2 Fork
4 Urza's Bauble
Land:
18 Snow-Covered Mountian
I really like the baubles in this type of deck they help Okay hands in to some insame ones. Also Red does not get desent card draw outside of Browbeat
Edit:
I forgot to post my sideboard.
2 Price of Progress
1 Fireblast
2 Char
3 Sirroco
2 Earthquake
2 Tormod's Crypt
Also I think Coldsnap maybe be offering up some cards worth looking into.
Anyone bringing some burn to the Gen Con Legacy championships ?
it's all good
thanks and enjoy
Tidbits of George Carlin :
“I like it when a flower or a little tuft of grass grows through a crack in the concrete. It's so f***in' heroic.”
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”
I think that most burn decks are pretty consistent nowadays for Legacy. Unless there is a release of some uber-broken burn (Standard power level wise anyway), then there is gonna be the same lists, with fluctuating optional cards.
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast
Yeah, those were the cards I also was looking and can't see them fitting in at this point.
I also have been eyeing this card to see if can be helpful :
it's all good
thanks and enjoy
Tidbits of George Carlin :
“I like it when a flower or a little tuft of grass grows through a crack in the concrete. It's so f***in' heroic.”
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”
Here's my current list.
19 Mountain
Creatures (4)
4 Mogg Fanatic
Spells (37)
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Incinerate
4 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
4 Volcanic Hammer
3 Fire Ambush
3 Browbeat
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Anarchy
4 Sirroco
1 Price of Progress
3 Flamebreak
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast
deck looks okay but flame break in sb? maybe not, take out fire ambush and replace it with that. for the other 3 maybe something like.. o say.. artifact?
Also, I find Flamebreak to be effective when playing Goblins only. Otherwise, it's an overcosted 3 damage spell to control decks.
One thing I'll try do do is to get Burn back to the Competitive section, but I think it would take a minor miracle to do so. Anyhow, I'll be testing the deck like a crazed kid and will post up results in a week or so.
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast
1) Grim Lavamancer is amazing in this deck... he provides very similar staying power as Browbeat does in some builds, and he is definate damage, not just an extra few cards that may/may not be lands. I could see the argument that he attracts Swords all day long, but who the hell isn't going to side out all their removal against you in G2/G3... I think he is a staple in this deck, no matter what the metagame(well, somewhat balanced metagames, anyway). Flame away...
2) Why doesn't anyone use Sulfuric Vortex or Price of Progress in the MD? I MD 3 copies of each, and without them, I don't think the deck does nearly as well against RG Survival, Angel Stompy, Threshold, etc... There are often times where i'm staring down a Turn-2/3 Angel(backed up by MoR or the like) or an army of 4/4 bears, and there is no way for me to get in that last few points of damage, especially when a Jitte is involved... And I think vortex and price each serve their purposed against the right decks, whether it's getting 6-8 damage in against survival(at instant speed), or disallowing Jitte, Armadillo Cloak, or an opponent STPing their own creature to stay alive. In certain metas, it might be fine to just run 32ish 3 damage spells along with 4 fanatics, 4 baubles, and a couple flamebreaks, but in my meta, there are so many other ways for opponents to delay death.
Here's what I run, for reference:
19 Mountain
Creatures(8):
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Grim Lavamancer
Spells(33):
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Incinerate
4 Chain of Plasma
4 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress
3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Flamebreak
4 Shattering Spree (Chalice hurts a lot :/)
3 Anarchy
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Flamebreak
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Price of Progress
1 Fork
I'd like suggestions, if possible... other than the usual "don't MD price, it's suboptimal."
Your deck is an interesting build. I generally don't run Grim Lavamancer based on the targettability issue, and the fact that mana will be hard to come by, but I will see whether it is a powerhouse I guess.
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast
it's all good
thanks and enjoy
edit- NO, IT DOESN"T WORK THAT WAY. I apologize for bringing it up.
Tidbits of George Carlin :
“I like it when a flower or a little tuft of grass grows through a crack in the concrete. It's so f***in' heroic.”
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”
I do not think that is a good one. Since you might not have lands in your hands. I think Sweep & Lightning Storm would be better.