The sideboard is mere speculation, as there is no Legacy format in New Zealand. Also, I've found Mogg Fanatic to be sub-optimal when testing him. I've almost always wanted another burn spell instead of him. Let me know if I'm making a mistake though.
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Eternal Masters 2015 Legacy Champion. Has an unnatural love towards perfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.
What is everyone's opinion on running 4 Fire Ambush maindeck, as another 3 damage spell? The sideboard is mere speculation, as there is no Legacy format in New Zealand. Also, I've found Mogg Fanatic to be sub-optimal when testing him. I've almost always wanted another burn spell instead of him. Let me know if I'm making a mistake though.
I have used 4 ambush before in my straight burn deck, if you look to my straight burn on the previous page it runs 2 (my deck on this page is not staight burn, though of course close to it). And so I think your decklist is pretty solid; I'm not a fan of browbeat but running two should be okay, and take aa look at my deck on the last page as it quite simmilar and the few differebt card choices might be something to consider.
it's all good
thanks and enjoy
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Tidbits of George Carlin : “I like it when a flower or a little tuft of grass grows through a crack in the concrete. It's so f***in' heroic.” "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." "Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”
the lavamancer and fanatic are actually better than most ppl think. they can do damage over time for red. i think they are far superior to say magma jet and browbeat. i used to run both of those and they took them out for those two cards.
as for ball lightning i think you need 1 or 2 always because it is like a constant possible threat. ball lightning with fireblast is always 10 damage. and if you have a lavamancer in play that is 4 more cards to feed him and thus 4 more damage.
And i rather have some other burn spell to their head..
Overall Lavamancer does 0 damage on turn you play it and only 2 (wtf?Shock?!) on the turn after it. Thats soo slow..Another plain burn2the head is better..
Overall Lavamancer does 0 damage on turn you play it and only 2 (wtf?Shock?!) on the turn after it. Thats soo slow..Another plain burn2the head is better..
Same is true of Cursed Scroll. Basic lands, instants and sorceries is a powerful place to be. Many of the opponent's spells will be worthless. I certainly would not stray from that formula.
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I don't hate working out. I hate working. I'm actually fine with the out.
Damn str8. I feel a bit dirty just running 2 Barbarian Ring. The above formula is unsane (sic) at generating virtual card advantage. Letting go of that for whatever mathmatical or nostalgic reason is inadviseable, and will lead to a far less reliable burn deck.
For sure, keep an eye on your metagame and consider stuff if the appropriate removal spells are absent. If no-one uses any disenchant effects, squeeze 2 CScrolls in - whatever. But when you post your list up here, please note that 'this diversion from sanity is due to my retarded metagame'; this way we know it's the players around you who are cerebrally impaired and won't call you a loser for pwning them so appropriatly.;)
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Some have said embermages lack subtlety. You know what? THEY'RE ALL DEAD!! :mad1:
And i rather have some other burn spell to their head..
Overall Lavamancer does 0 damage on turn you play it and only 2 (wtf?Shock?!) on the turn after it. Thats soo slow..Another plain burn2the head is better..
lavamancer converts every card in your yard into burn so how is that not virtual card advantage? also think of mana cost and mana spent. most of the decks i see that run volcanic hammer and fire ambush in my mind doesnt cut it. i ran those before and the deck seems to run a LOT better with lavamancer.
heck i would rather run price of progress over volcanic hammer and fire ambush... i would rather run it main and not sideboard. price is going to average 6 damage and you wont price unless you can get 4 damage. every deck i have seen in vintage runs non-basics aside from straight burn.
and if we are thinking about doing just pure continous damage why not drop in something like ankh of mishrah? they will always seemingly do damage.
lavamancer converts every card in your yard into burn so how is that not virtual card advantage?
I don't think you're quite getting the whole 'virtual card advantage' thing. The idea is, having no non-basic land permanents, all your opponent's ANSWERS to those permanents become dead cards, as if they were discarded or not there in the first place. All the Swords to Plowshares, ***s, etc, have no bearing on the match. Further, as your only creature, Grim would fall prey to the rampant removal people have to kill stuff like Lackey; all that would do is waste your mana to let them use a card they shouldn't be able to, and at most you'll have dealt, what, 2 damage for RR over two turns?
Succintly put, Vestdan. What kind of metagame ate you playing in, TopDeck?
In the rest of the world, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Welder, Dark Confidant, Werebear, Nimble Mongoose, Bird of Paradise & Llanowar Elf, and even Putrid Imp have created a metagame where most decks can kill a Grim Lavamancer without even sneezing.
Cards like Darkblast, Lava Dart, Swords to Plowshares and Engineered Plague tend to be dead draws if you are not playing Lavamancers. Here is your virtual card advantage. Making these dead cards live is reducing it. Sure, Lavamancer would be good if his 1/2life was any better. If you are playing casually, he'll be fine - maybe.
The other 2 mathmatical problems with Lavamancer are...
1) Tempo - it's considerably slower than this deck is capable of. Turn 3 kills are our holy grail, and he urinates in it.
2) Slowly converting your graveyard into damage is only OK if you are running bad burn spells and need the extra damage. Run the good ones, and the fact you have cast them generally means the opponent is dead already.
Don't pay so much attention the Vocanic Hammers and Fire Ambushes in some of these list, I'm fairly sure ppl are just showing off thier pimp portal burn.:D
...every deck i have seen in vintage runs non-basics aside from straight burn.
and if we are thinking about doing just pure continous damage why not drop in something like ankh of mishrah? they will always seemingly do damage.
This is the heart of the misunderstanding I think.
In Vintage, Lavamancer may actually be a good fit since creatures removal is really only an afterthought.
what do you think of dropping fanatic for something else?
it only does 1-2 damage at most every game; it seems like a shock (i'm sure there's something better than that, but cant think right now) would even do the job.
though i do like chump blocking with him occasianly; if it comes down to it.
Lavamancer is good only for Sligh/RDW/Fish decks, where you ned a constant source of damage if the game grinds out... As for burn, if the game grinds out, it means you're in trouble.
As for dropping Fanatic... I wouldn't do that. Yes, it's a mediocre topdeck, but dropping it in turn 1 will sometimes net you 3 damage or more, by both attacking and sacrificing, and I've found it to be able to do so many things that I wouldnt ever drop Mogg Fantastic...
what do you think of dropping fanatic for something else?
NEVER! Man, this guy is just amazing. In Control matches he is usually a Bolt or even bigger. In Aggro matches he is an ultimate blocked that alows to deal with opp's guy while not taking a dmg fro him.
Fanatic also serves as an additional answer to the problem x/1 creatures other decks use, and drop early in the game. If I recall correctly, answering Lackey was what originally pushed him 'over the edge' and into the maindeck. They guy is simply an irreplaceable 1 drop in the deck, due to his utility. Top decks in this format need to be able to kill the x/1 I've mentioned; many other decks are very powerfull (rather than just consistant like Burn) and we cannot allow them to get their game on.
I also must concur with calls to maindeck Price of Progress. This spell has been the reason for many a 3rd turn kill in my experience, and my metagame certainly warrants it.
Ankh of Mishra however can be pretty bad. It's useless unless played turn 1 or 2 really, a horrible topdeck too. A Shrapnel Blast mutated burn deck could use it due to the added synergy, but that's another deck entirely and operates more like RDW.
Tidbits of George Carlin : “I like it when a flower or a little tuft of grass grows through a crack in the concrete. It's so f***in' heroic.” "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." "Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”
Strewth doodlebird, this deck is even closer to a 'standard' burn deck than your last one!
You decribe your meta as increasingly permeated by Gobbos and weenies, yet your previous decks ran 5 or more sweepers vs this ones 2 X Flamebreak. ???:o??? What happened to the Rolling Earthquake?
I suggest this is due to you being unable to resist the allure of having ppl check out your Fire Ambush when cast, and the fun of randomly pwning with Fork - is the facial expressions this card can prompt what made you unable to drop it?
If indeed my assumptions here are correct, then well done. Those reasons are perfectly valid! Great to see so much card selection convergence from one who approaches burn from so far leftfield, I'll take this as evidence we are all getting even closer to the fabled 'optimal build' (sic).
P.S. If you are over Rolling Earthquake, can I trade for them? Pretty please???
Strewth doodlebird, this deck is even closer to a 'standard' burn deck than your last one!
You decribe your meta as increasingly permeated by Gobbos and weenies, yet your previous decks ran 5 or more sweepers vs this ones 2 X Flamebreak. ???:o??? What happened to the Rolling Earthquake?
I suggest this is due to you being unable to resist the allure of having ppl check out your Fire Ambush when cast, and the fun of randomly pwning with Fork - is the facial expressions this card can prompt what made you unable to drop it?
If indeed my assumptions here are correct, then well done. Those reasons are perfectly valid! Great to see so much card selection convergence from one who approaches burn from so far leftfield, I'll take this as evidence we are all getting even closer to the fabled 'optimal build' (sic).
P.S. If you are over Rolling Earthquake, can I trade for them? Pretty please???
Sorry, but I do still use the quakes - they are in my other burn deck (see last page - it's the more left field one that uses maniacs MD). An I would use volcanic hammer, but yeah the ambush are more 'fun'. I'm still not overly satisfied with the fanatics MD, but they help fill out the one drop slots. Yes, more sweepers could help against the gobs and weenie (as the the PoP don't help much in this case either), but I went with fanatics instead as they ccan fair better agaisnt other decks as well. And another yes to using 2 forks - though can suck top deck they can rock in so many other instances that I feel the 2 are fine.maybe the next set will yeild the next sweet card to include (Dissention didn't do it).
it's all good
thanks and enjoy
ps- say I just noted the reorganization of the categories. We are now 'decks in developement'. Jeez, I can remember a not so long time ago that we were stikied in competitive. Oh well, keep smoldering until we ignite again.
Tidbits of George Carlin : “I like it when a flower or a little tuft of grass grows through a crack in the concrete. It's so f***in' heroic.” "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." "Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”
Now that leaves us with around 3-4 slots for something else in the main deck. I think this is the ingredient we should concentrate on finding for this burn deck.
What sideboard to play is totally a meta game call. Always know what decks are running rampant in your area and you will do fine with your sideboard. Some usual good cards worth considering are Anarchy, Pyrostatic pillar, Red elemental blast, Sulfuric vortex and Crash.
I also think that maybe including Slith firewalker in the sideboard might be a neat surprise. Most opponents will always side out their creature hatred cards for something else during sideboarding.
Sideboard is generally what I want to throw in at the time, generally consisting of Price of Progress, Red Elemental Blast and Sirocco, but I need more ideas to make this more competitive.
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Eternal Masters 2015 Legacy Champion. Has an unnatural love towards perfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.
Been toying with the idea of a RDW/Sligh like deck for a while now. Its a lot of fun and very impressive ... most of the time. The decks biggest problem is that it all but lacks cards that disrupt the opponents plan, so combo and control are few to muck around and do what they want. The answer is to set a clock that they cant handle, they must be dead on turn 4 which is doable but not easy.
Ankh of Mishra
is good, but a dead card late game, and may only do 2-4 damage which isn't that impressive. On the upside is give them pause, players may hold land to avoid the last few points of damage.
Magma Jet
card advantage is key, but costing 2 and only doing 2 makes underpowered imo, I plan to do more testing with it.
Cursed Scroll
nice damage engine, but its slow, and cost a lot compared to other options.
Isochron Scepter
like scroll its a nice damage engine, with a bolt its 3 for 2 which makes it a better choice then Scroll however it puts you out 2 cards.
Flame Rift
4 for 2 is good, taking 4 maybe an issue against some decks tho.
Slith Firewalker
nice creature, think it will replace Ball, need to test it.
Trust me here, Magma Jet is still insanely good, even in T1.5. The scrying means you can get rid of lands (or if you play MWS, get some lands), and it deals damage as well. Such a good card. Plus, Sensei's Divining Top is such a drain on the mana that the benefits gained result in losing a lot of tempo, effectively losing you the game.
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Eternal Masters 2015 Legacy Champion. Has an unnatural love towards perfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.
19 Mountain
Spells (41)
4 Fireblast
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain of Plasma
4 Incinerate
4 Magma Jet
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Fire Ambush
2 Browbeat
3 Flamebreak
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Price of Progress
3 Anarchy
3 Sirocco
2 Tormod's Crypt
The sideboard is mere speculation, as there is no Legacy format in New Zealand. Also, I've found Mogg Fanatic to be sub-optimal when testing him. I've almost always wanted another burn spell instead of him. Let me know if I'm making a mistake though.
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast
I have used 4 ambush before in my straight burn deck, if you look to my straight burn on the previous page it runs 2 (my deck on this page is not staight burn, though of course close to it). And so I think your decklist is pretty solid; I'm not a fan of browbeat but running two should be okay, and take aa look at my deck on the last page as it quite simmilar and the few differebt card choices might be something to consider.
it's all good
thanks and enjoy
Tidbits of George Carlin :
“I like it when a flower or a little tuft of grass grows through a crack in the concrete. It's so f***in' heroic.”
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”
here is my build:
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
4 Incinerate
4 Lava Spike
4 Seal of Fire
2 Shock
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Firebolt
2 Ball Lightning
2 Flamebreak
1 Cursed scroll
19 Mountains
the lavamancer and fanatic are actually better than most ppl think. they can do damage over time for red. i think they are far superior to say magma jet and browbeat. i used to run both of those and they took them out for those two cards.
as for ball lightning i think you need 1 or 2 always because it is like a constant possible threat. ball lightning with fireblast is always 10 damage. and if you have a lavamancer in play that is 4 more cards to feed him and thus 4 more damage.
For the same reason, Ball lightning is worser than Browbeat too..
i rather them swords the 1/1 on my side than swords there own fattie to save their life.
Overall Lavamancer does 0 damage on turn you play it and only 2 (wtf?Shock?!) on the turn after it. Thats soo slow..Another plain burn2the head is better..
Same is true of Cursed Scroll. Basic lands, instants and sorceries is a powerful place to be. Many of the opponent's spells will be worthless. I certainly would not stray from that formula.
For sure, keep an eye on your metagame and consider stuff if the appropriate removal spells are absent. If no-one uses any disenchant effects, squeeze 2 CScrolls in - whatever. But when you post your list up here, please note that 'this diversion from sanity is due to my retarded metagame'; this way we know it's the players around you who are cerebrally impaired and won't call you a loser for pwning them so appropriatly.;)
lavamancer converts every card in your yard into burn so how is that not virtual card advantage? also think of mana cost and mana spent. most of the decks i see that run volcanic hammer and fire ambush in my mind doesnt cut it. i ran those before and the deck seems to run a LOT better with lavamancer.
heck i would rather run price of progress over volcanic hammer and fire ambush... i would rather run it main and not sideboard. price is going to average 6 damage and you wont price unless you can get 4 damage. every deck i have seen in vintage runs non-basics aside from straight burn.
and if we are thinking about doing just pure continous damage why not drop in something like ankh of mishrah? they will always seemingly do damage.
I don't think you're quite getting the whole 'virtual card advantage' thing. The idea is, having no non-basic land permanents, all your opponent's ANSWERS to those permanents become dead cards, as if they were discarded or not there in the first place. All the Swords to Plowshares, ***s, etc, have no bearing on the match. Further, as your only creature, Grim would fall prey to the rampant removal people have to kill stuff like Lackey; all that would do is waste your mana to let them use a card they shouldn't be able to, and at most you'll have dealt, what, 2 damage for RR over two turns?
Trades
Articles
Winner of SSC 1 & ">3 & 6
In the rest of the world, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Welder, Dark Confidant, Werebear, Nimble Mongoose, Bird of Paradise & Llanowar Elf, and even Putrid Imp have created a metagame where most decks can kill a Grim Lavamancer without even sneezing.
Cards like Darkblast, Lava Dart, Swords to Plowshares and Engineered Plague tend to be dead draws if you are not playing Lavamancers. Here is your virtual card advantage. Making these dead cards live is reducing it. Sure, Lavamancer would be good if his 1/2life was any better. If you are playing casually, he'll be fine - maybe.
The other 2 mathmatical problems with Lavamancer are...
1) Tempo - it's considerably slower than this deck is capable of. Turn 3 kills are our holy grail, and he urinates in it.
2) Slowly converting your graveyard into damage is only OK if you are running bad burn spells and need the extra damage. Run the good ones, and the fact you have cast them generally means the opponent is dead already.
Don't pay so much attention the Vocanic Hammers and Fire Ambushes in some of these list, I'm fairly sure ppl are just showing off thier pimp portal burn.:D
This is the heart of the misunderstanding I think.
In Vintage, Lavamancer may actually be a good fit since creatures removal is really only an afterthought.
Vintage? Another forum for you guy :lol:
it only does 1-2 damage at most every game; it seems like a shock (i'm sure there's something better than that, but cant think right now) would even do the job.
though i do like chump blocking with him occasianly; if it comes down to it.
just a suggestion; LMK what yall think
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=1145783#post1145783
As for dropping Fanatic... I wouldn't do that. Yes, it's a mediocre topdeck, but dropping it in turn 1 will sometimes net you 3 damage or more, by both attacking and sacrificing, and I've found it to be able to do so many things that I wouldnt ever drop Mogg Fantastic...
besides, I love the flavor text...
NEVER! Man, this guy is just amazing. In Control matches he is usually a Bolt or even bigger. In Aggro matches he is an ultimate blocked that alows to deal with opp's guy while not taking a dmg fro him.
I also must concur with calls to maindeck Price of Progress. This spell has been the reason for many a 3rd turn kill in my experience, and my metagame certainly warrants it.
Ankh of Mishra however can be pretty bad. It's useless unless played turn 1 or 2 really, a horrible topdeck too. A Shrapnel Blast mutated burn deck could use it due to the added synergy, but that's another deck entirely and operates more like RDW.
Yeah, now ALL the decks run nonbasics and Price is always at least 4 to the head for 2 mana at an instant speed. Just great.
4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
4 fireblast
4 incinerate
4 lava spike
4 chain of plasma
4 magma jet
2 fire ambush
3 mogg fanatic
2 fork
3 price of progress
2 flamebreak
2 barbarian ring
18 mountains
SB:
4 anarchy
4 pyrostatic pillar
3 shattering spree
1 shivan gorge
3 mogg maniac
it's all good
thanks and enjoy
ps- Meatwarz, nice avatar
Tidbits of George Carlin :
“I like it when a flower or a little tuft of grass grows through a crack in the concrete. It's so f***in' heroic.”
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”
You decribe your meta as increasingly permeated by Gobbos and weenies, yet your previous decks ran 5 or more sweepers vs this ones 2 X Flamebreak. ???:o??? What happened to the Rolling Earthquake?
I suggest this is due to you being unable to resist the allure of having ppl check out your Fire Ambush when cast, and the fun of randomly pwning with Fork - is the facial expressions this card can prompt what made you unable to drop it?
If indeed my assumptions here are correct, then well done. Those reasons are perfectly valid! Great to see so much card selection convergence from one who approaches burn from so far leftfield, I'll take this as evidence we are all getting even closer to the fabled 'optimal build' (sic).
P.S. If you are over Rolling Earthquake, can I trade for them? Pretty please???
Sorry, but I do still use the quakes - they are in my other burn deck (see last page - it's the more left field one that uses maniacs MD). An I would use volcanic hammer, but yeah the ambush are more 'fun'. I'm still not overly satisfied with the fanatics MD, but they help fill out the one drop slots. Yes, more sweepers could help against the gobs and weenie (as the the PoP don't help much in this case either), but I went with fanatics instead as they ccan fair better agaisnt other decks as well. And another yes to using 2 forks - though can suck top deck they can rock in so many other instances that I feel the 2 are fine.maybe the next set will yeild the next sweet card to include (Dissention didn't do it).
it's all good
thanks and enjoy
ps- say I just noted the reorganization of the categories. We are now 'decks in developement'. Jeez, I can remember a not so long time ago that we were stikied in competitive. Oh well, keep smoldering until we ignite again.
Tidbits of George Carlin :
“I like it when a flower or a little tuft of grass grows through a crack in the concrete. It's so f***in' heroic.”
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”
LANDS:
19-20 Mountains
CREATURES:
4 Mogg fanatic
SPELLS:
4 Lava spike
4 Lighting bolt
4 Chain lightning
4 Incinerate
4 Fireblast
4 Magma jet
3-4 Flamebreak
3 Price of progress
3 Browbeat
Now that leaves us with around 3-4 slots for something else in the main deck. I think this is the ingredient we should concentrate on finding for this burn deck.
What sideboard to play is totally a meta game call. Always know what decks are running rampant in your area and you will do fine with your sideboard. Some usual good cards worth considering are Anarchy, Pyrostatic pillar, Red elemental blast, Sulfuric vortex and Crash.
I also think that maybe including Slith firewalker in the sideboard might be a neat surprise. Most opponents will always side out their creature hatred cards for something else during sideboarding.
19 Mountain
Creatures (4)
4 Mogg Fanatic
Spells (37)
4 Fireblast
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Incinerate
4 Fire Ambush
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Magma Jet
4 Chain of Plasma
1 Final Fortune
Sideboard is generally what I want to throw in at the time, generally consisting of Price of Progress, Red Elemental Blast and Sirocco, but I need more ideas to make this more competitive.
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast
4 Jackal Pup
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Ball lightning
Spells
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Chain Lightning
4 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Lava Spike
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
9 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
Lots of things could, maybe should be changed...
Ankh of Mishra
is good, but a dead card late game, and may only do 2-4 damage which isn't that impressive. On the upside is give them pause, players may hold land to avoid the last few points of damage.
Magma Jet
card advantage is key, but costing 2 and only doing 2 makes underpowered imo, I plan to do more testing with it.
Cursed Scroll
nice damage engine, but its slow, and cost a lot compared to other options.
Isochron Scepter
like scroll its a nice damage engine, with a bolt its 3 for 2 which makes it a better choice then Scroll however it puts you out 2 cards.
Flame Rift
4 for 2 is good, taking 4 maybe an issue against some decks tho.
Slith Firewalker
nice creature, think it will replace Ball, need to test it.
feedback?
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast