actually I have, and I have been a strong supporter of this deck since the beginning, my team mate (devastator) play tested with hanni online when he was actually making the deck..
I see great potential in the deck, it rapes most combo, is resiliant to most hate, and doesn't autoloose to aggro... Unfortuitely I do not have jitte nor do I have the intention of ever buying them (I like straight control myself). I have been testing against the third build and have found that it tends to hate to see humility and or wrath... should I try to fit in some enchantment hate or just be more wise with countering descisions (I tend to be finding a lot of cards must counters eventually leading me to no countermagic in hand)
by must counters I mean challice, crucible (with wastes), wrath, humility, pyroclasm (only sometimes), and just huge beatsticks (unless of coarse I have STP).... since most of these problematic cards seem to be enchantments/artifacts I will have to test further on those routes in the board or even perhapes MD...
I have also been working on a UR control deck... Belgorath you seem to have a great understanding on these sorts of decks, perhapes you could post and give me some ideas (the deck is called strisand beats).. I think it is by far the best deck that I have constructed on my own (without previous encouragement)...
good luck with the deck... I doubt it could get much stronger in the future (it already is pretty awesome).
I played 30 games against Hulk Flash today and won 29 of them. The loss came to the fact that I got no lands in my hand of 7, no lands in my hand of 6, and no lands in my hand of 5. I started the game with 4 cards and couldn't find any answers in time (I still should have won. Hulk can't beat Fish).
EDIT: Feel free to talk trash to the Hulk player. I repeatedly told my opponent, "Don't bring Kool-Aid to a grown man's party" to great effect. Also, stating that "Only Barnes and Noble lets someone sit around longer doing nothing" is a favorite to say to my losing Hulk Flash opponent
Hey guys i play fish in type 1 regularly, my type 1 meta is all combo and bomberman. I usually top 8 in these tournys with fish. I am considering this deck, suntower, and slivers for the GP.
Here is the list that i am considering
This is basically my type one list with some cards replaced. No Savanah Lions they became mothers, no isamaru i think some sort of flyer is beter here. I am not sure if black is the best way to go. In type one it is played that way but i don't like it and just play the Blue White version. But in legacy we will have to see. Not really sure on the sideboard, i know the plague is a must but is leyline a must in this deck, is Jotun Grunt enough. Vindicate is the best spot removal i can think of and seems to be supported by most of the poeple writing about his deck. I like null rod but i don't know how popular stax is and affinity loses to Null Rod or Serenity. 2 opens spots might be Duress, but i am not sure.
I've been testing your list for a few weeks now, and I've been having FS trouble. (This is FS with Trinket engine running MD Needles and the like...ewww...) The only flier I'm using is Serra Avenger, and with Mother of Runes nerfed, I can't stand up the the air force.
I know Edicts are supposed to go in the board, but I think that Vindicate would be far more useful, and it seems others agree with me.
Also, I swapped out Stifle for Trickbind, mainly because I only have one Stifle, and I am very happy with the results.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
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This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
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I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
The only flier I'm using is Serra Avenger, and with Mother of Runes nerfed, I can't stand up the the air force.
Counter the big men, and let the equipment resolve. If they have a draw engine (Looter Il-Kor, Thirst For Knowledge, etc), make sure it doesn't stay around. They lose insane card advantage trying to put resources on table in the early game, and they usually empty their hand with only one man on the board. Fish has a slow-ish clock, so you need keep your priorities like this:
1) How many cards do they have in their hand?
2) They dropped a flier. Do you have StP? If not, counter it.
3) Chalice for 2 needs to stay the frizzle off the table at all costs. Chalice for 1 is okay unless you need to do some early cantripping.
4) His Ancient Tombs, FoW costs, Serendib upkeeps, and Psy Blasts are going to hurt him, so keep the aggro plan in mind.
FUN FACT! Did you know if your Faerie Stompy opponent taps their Ancient Tomb 4 times, Forces a spell twice, has an Efreet sitting on the table for 6 turns, and Psy Blasts twice, he'll deal 20 damage to himself?
I know Edicts are supposed to go in the board, but I think that Vindicate would be far more useful, and it seems others agree with me.
When I am able to trade for Vindicates on the cheap, I'll add them to the sideboard. Edict is just a suitible alternative for the time being. I've been playing Thresh lately (Strictly for comfort. GP Trials are all about playing what you know best, not playing the best deck) so I haven't really been looking for them very hard.
Also, I swapped out Stifle for Trickbind, mainly because I only have one Stifle, and I am very happy with the results.
Oh noes! I have also played with Trickbind, and it's not good. I'll explain why:
Scenario 1) Your opponent is playing Iggy Pop. He casts Ill Gotten Gains and you discard a Stifle and bring it back to your hand. You have one blue open because Iggy isn't going to wait for you to get 2 mana. Your opponent scoops.
FUN FACT! I beat Stephen Menendian, widely considered to be the best Eternal format strategist of all time, with me playing Thresh and him playing Iggy. Why? Because Stifle is teh wreckzorz.
Scenario 2) Your opponent is playing High Tide shenanigans. You have two blue mana open for Trickbind. Your opponent Turnabouts your lands while going off, and casts Brain Freeze at your face while you have no mana open for either Stifle or Trickbind. Obviously, 1-mana dead card is better than a 2-mana dead card, no?
FUN FACT! Doug Linn (Team Meandeck, teammates with the aforementioned Steve Menendian) Turnabouted my lands while I was holding Trickbind. This is first-hand knowledge, folks. Don't worry, I ended up winning the match. I'm undefeated against Team Meandeck.
Scenario 3) You play a Tundra, and pass the turn. Your opponent drops a Wasteland to kill your Tundra. You Stifle it. Who knew Sinkhole only costs one blue mana?
Scenario 4) You play a Tundra, and pass the turn. Your opponent drops a fetchland and tries to go get a land. You Stifle it. Who knew Sinkhole only costs one blue mana?
Scenario 5) You open with Island -> Go. Your opponent plays a Chrome Mox and a Tropical Island, casts Flash, and puts Protean Hulk on the table and then into the Graveyard. You Stifle the trigger, and your opponent scoops. Congrats! You just beat the best deck in the format.
what i find interesting about fish is that it is quite similar to roland chang's madness legacy deck from 2006.
it has stifle, force of will, and daze, but fish has a tad more disruption in swords and duress.
i have played against it and ironically there are a lot of tier 2 decks that can beat out fish ala burn (with good ole price of progress). also fish has major issues with goblins, but the deck seemed pretty good versus iggy pop and solidarity so it would lead me to conclude that most combo matchups are pretty favorable with the deck.
i'm actually going to be testing this deck some this weekend. my friends and i might make the trip to columbus (we live in east tennessee), and i'm trying to decide which deck i want to take w/ me.
i really like the look of this deck, but i don't think it resembles madness at all. i think that, if anything, it resembles gro only without the threshold aspect.
i'll get to test against a variety of decks this weekend, so i'll keep you guys posted on how it goes.
Yeah, Hanni said that this deck was an easy transition for thresh players because it has alot of the same aspects; fast eficient critters and good disruption.
This deck is nothing like Madness. I doubt I could even play Madness correctly.
For the GP, you should be playing Duress in the MD, and Leylines in the SB. I'll be damned if I let some Cheaty McCheatyface do Kiki-Jiki hijinks on me.
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Scenario 5B) You open with Island -> Go. Your opponent plays a Chrome Mox and a Tropical Island, casts Flash, and puts Protean Hulk on the table and then into the Graveyard. You Stifle the trigger, and your opponent counters it. That damn deck won again.
That would require your opponent to have a miracle opening hand.
1) Chrome Mox
2) Imprint card for Mox
3) Tropical Island
4) Flash
5) Protean Hulk
6) Force of Will
7) Blue card for FoW
And if they do have such a nutty opening, we simply return our Island to our hand and Daze their Force. And they cry rivers of sadness.
let your opponent play flash, sac his proteanhulk search for his cards (he had to search once all cards he wants and put them into play once) and play angel's grace, most of time he scoops ... (this one works really well for the post-FS version with Disciple of the Vault and the 0/0 artifacts, cos' most of time he search for all 8 0/0 artifacts and all 4 Disciple of the Vault, once we angel's grace this, he simply could not win anymore ...)
I don't want to be mean, but that's not how Magic works. You would still lose once the spell wears off at EOT. Even if it didn't, you would have to drop a ton of guys to block the four Disciples he would be swinging with next turn.
For me HulkFlash is ne of the most powerfull deck ever (despite memory jar / megrim at his time) and overall it's a real chalenge for me to beat this deck a,d yes I think it's beatable. Every deck has a perfect hand but not at all games !!!
Hulk Flash really isn't that great. It's not going to be good until Future Sight becomes legal. I've never lost to it, so it's not a threat at all.
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I don't want to be mean, but that's not how Magic works. You would still lose once the spell wears off at EOT. Even if it didn't, you would have to drop a ton of guys to block the four Disciples he would be swinging with next turn.
i'm pretty sure that you wouldn't lose when the spell wore off at EOT. if that's how angel's grace worked, then it would be a pointless card. you would just go to one life. but you are right about having to block the four disciples, tho. but i think the difficulty in that just depends on how early or late in the game he 'went off.'
i agree with what you are saying md on the hulk deck, i was testing uw fish and i need something more, do u have a more updated version of this deck, ...thanx
Only with damage, not life loss.
As for the K-J kill, if you don't kill the critters, the Flash player can respawn infinite spirits during his next upkeep.
you are correct, sir. i thought it and worship were worded a bit differently. that's my bad. well, i guess angel's grace doesn't work against hulk flash. i hate combo decks.
This is probably the best list for the GP. Today at the Cincy trial, I came in 9th out of 29 with Threshold, breaking the streak of Top 8's. So now I'm going to be running this list at the GP. It's crazy good.
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hmm i like the deck and was thinking about building it if flash doesn't get banned/errated, i have a question though, could sickening shoal find a place in the deck to off a lackey or driver tossing confidant or hard casting later to kill a bigger threat? i'm thinking it would suck but i've never seen a fish build so i wasn't sure
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
MD, what was the Top 8 at that tournament? That list looks good.
I had to play against my friend in round 5, and he refused to draw me in, because he had to get in the top 8 so he could give more prizes to his other friend (:(). Anyways, everybody was running SB Leylines, and I had to beat some fish player with unthreshed men.
As for the Top 8, it was pretty janky. 2 Goblins, Thresh (UGWB), Hulk Flash, some homebrew MBA/C junk...I can't remember the rest
This current list is the GP list, because it has plenty of disruption for Hulk and even the mirror. I'm even thinking about replacing the Vindicates for Tivadar's Crusade, just so I have guaranteed wins against both Goblins and Hulk Flash
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This is probably the best list for the GP. Today at the Cincy trial, I came in 9th out of 29 with Threshold, breaking the streak of Top 8's. So now I'm going to be running this list at the GP. It's crazy good.
Hi MD...seem like the expert on the deck in this forum (I'm not, just built it). I like your take with 4 Serendib efreet over the WW casting cost of the Serra Avenger, and I may do your build that over the Japanese build, which had more land and more disruption with only 2 Serendib Efreet...seems like the best finisher other than the grunt.
Could you explain your sideboard choices? Such as what you side in/out vs. what matchup? Some are obvious, some aren't. I'm very curious as to when you side in vindicate...as it tends to be a little slow on some match ups. Also, why no pithing needle? Is it no longer important in the meta?
Ones I'm most interested in are:
Faerie Stompy
Goblins
Threshold
Affinity (what do you take out for Serenity, Durress?)
****Mirror****
With the list on page 1, I lost 8 games in a row to Faerie Stompy. After the changes made a couple posts up, I won 6 games in a row. They put all their eggs in one basket, and if you opponent puts on the aggro-face, you will be teh winnar. If Faerie tries to play it slow, they have a chance, so make the following changes:
-3 Stifle
-1 Daze
-1 Duress
+3 Vindicate
+2 Explosives/Serenity (Serenity is better, but the opponent will probably be Chalicing for 2 like a madman)
Goblins -
This is super easy. Jitte + Plague = nutty. I haven't decided if I like Vindicate or Tivadar's Crusade more, but if you run Tivadar's, pull out 3 more Mages for it. I don't have many men, so I like keeping Mage in to name Ringleader and help block if they manage to explode.
-3 Duress
-1 Meddling Mage
+4 Engineered Plague
Threshold -
Surprisingly, Meddling Mage isn't very good in this matchup, because Leyline+Grunt are going to keep his men small, and we run a lot of the same spells. Name Enforcer/Werebear game 1, and side them out game 2.
-4 Meddling Mage
-3 Duress
+4 Leyline of the Void
+3 Vindicate
Affinity -
I actually tested against Affinity last night, and went something like 5-2 against him. Keep Plating and Ravager off the table. Duress is great because it can take away Plating, but it usually hits nothing. You can Stifle transfering modular, but I'd rather not even give him a chance to make a big Ravager.
-2 Stifle
-3 Duress
+3 Vindicate
+2 Serenity
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how does your list and hanni's compare... I am curious about that. I do also agree with efreet (can't beleive it took you guys sooo long to see the light).
I can see the lack of mother being a hinderance, she has won me more games than I can count (even ones I had no place winning in the first place).
I also like the synergy with mother and negator (pro whatever color 'probably red' and beats!)... negator is undercosted and kills in 4 turns (3 with jitte).
I know you guys already think he's bad, but you should try it before you diss it you'll get a lot of crazy looks as your beating the opp down with a neg. with counter backup. I also have increased the countermagic count to 9 (+ 2 counterspell)... they seem to help out a lot!
I have been seeing a lot of mixed results from other people with the card.. but I personally love it overall.
efreet is a bad bad bad idea.... avenger is strong coz it has vigilance... this is great with jitte.
how cares if you cant get it 3rd turn... you dont need it then.
avenger also is 2cc which is just great turn 4...
dont dare drop that avenger, you need it for the dual purpose of attacking and blocking...
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I see great potential in the deck, it rapes most combo, is resiliant to most hate, and doesn't autoloose to aggro... Unfortuitely I do not have jitte nor do I have the intention of ever buying them (I like straight control myself). I have been testing against the third build and have found that it tends to hate to see humility and or wrath... should I try to fit in some enchantment hate or just be more wise with countering descisions (I tend to be finding a lot of cards must counters eventually leading me to no countermagic in hand)
by must counters I mean challice, crucible (with wastes), wrath, humility, pyroclasm (only sometimes), and just huge beatsticks (unless of coarse I have STP).... since most of these problematic cards seem to be enchantments/artifacts I will have to test further on those routes in the board or even perhapes MD...
I have also been working on a UR control deck... Belgorath you seem to have a great understanding on these sorts of decks, perhapes you could post and give me some ideas (the deck is called strisand beats).. I think it is by far the best deck that I have constructed on my own (without previous encouragement)...
good luck with the deck... I doubt it could get much stronger in the future (it already is pretty awesome).
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EDIT: Feel free to talk trash to the Hulk player. I repeatedly told my opponent, "Don't bring Kool-Aid to a grown man's party" to great effect. Also, stating that "Only Barnes and Noble lets someone sit around longer doing nothing" is a favorite to say to my losing Hulk Flash opponent
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Here is the list that i am considering
3x Polluted Delta
4x Tundra
2x Underground Sea
1x Scrubland
1x Plains
1x Island
2x Wasteland
4x Mother of Runes
2x Jotun Grunt
2x Serra Avenger ( ?? not sure in this one, but i feel it is better than isamaru )
4x Meddling Mage
4x Dark Confidant
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Serum Visions ( i don't like it but there is not a better choice )
3x Stifle ( Trickbind ( not sure which yet ))
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Duress
4x Engineered Plague
3x Serenity ( Rebuild ( better then null rod in legacy i think ))
2x Meta Spots not really sure what to put here yet.
This is basically my type one list with some cards replaced. No Savanah Lions they became mothers, no isamaru i think some sort of flyer is beter here. I am not sure if black is the best way to go. In type one it is played that way but i don't like it and just play the Blue White version. But in legacy we will have to see. Not really sure on the sideboard, i know the plague is a must but is leyline a must in this deck, is Jotun Grunt enough. Vindicate is the best spot removal i can think of and seems to be supported by most of the poeple writing about his deck. I like null rod but i don't know how popular stax is and affinity loses to Null Rod or Serenity. 2 opens spots might be Duress, but i am not sure.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=532795
I know Edicts are supposed to go in the board, but I think that Vindicate would be far more useful, and it seems others agree with me.
Also, I swapped out Stifle for Trickbind, mainly because I only have one Stifle, and I am very happy with the results.
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Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Smart choice
Oh noes!!
Counter the big men, and let the equipment resolve. If they have a draw engine (Looter Il-Kor, Thirst For Knowledge, etc), make sure it doesn't stay around. They lose insane card advantage trying to put resources on table in the early game, and they usually empty their hand with only one man on the board. Fish has a slow-ish clock, so you need keep your priorities like this:
1) How many cards do they have in their hand?
2) They dropped a flier. Do you have StP? If not, counter it.
3) Chalice for 2 needs to stay the frizzle off the table at all costs. Chalice for 1 is okay unless you need to do some early cantripping.
4) His Ancient Tombs, FoW costs, Serendib upkeeps, and Psy Blasts are going to hurt him, so keep the aggro plan in mind.
FUN FACT! Did you know if your Faerie Stompy opponent taps their Ancient Tomb 4 times, Forces a spell twice, has an Efreet sitting on the table for 6 turns, and Psy Blasts twice, he'll deal 20 damage to himself?
When I am able to trade for Vindicates on the cheap, I'll add them to the sideboard. Edict is just a suitible alternative for the time being. I've been playing Thresh lately (Strictly for comfort. GP Trials are all about playing what you know best, not playing the best deck) so I haven't really been looking for them very hard.
Oh noes! I have also played with Trickbind, and it's not good. I'll explain why:
Scenario 1) Your opponent is playing Iggy Pop. He casts Ill Gotten Gains and you discard a Stifle and bring it back to your hand. You have one blue open because Iggy isn't going to wait for you to get 2 mana. Your opponent scoops.
FUN FACT! I beat Stephen Menendian, widely considered to be the best Eternal format strategist of all time, with me playing Thresh and him playing Iggy. Why? Because Stifle is teh wreckzorz.
Scenario 2) Your opponent is playing High Tide shenanigans. You have two blue mana open for Trickbind. Your opponent Turnabouts your lands while going off, and casts Brain Freeze at your face while you have no mana open for either Stifle or Trickbind. Obviously, 1-mana dead card is better than a 2-mana dead card, no?
FUN FACT! Doug Linn (Team Meandeck, teammates with the aforementioned Steve Menendian) Turnabouted my lands while I was holding Trickbind. This is first-hand knowledge, folks. Don't worry, I ended up winning the match. I'm undefeated against Team Meandeck.
Scenario 3) You play a Tundra, and pass the turn. Your opponent drops a Wasteland to kill your Tundra. You Stifle it. Who knew Sinkhole only costs one blue mana?
Scenario 4) You play a Tundra, and pass the turn. Your opponent drops a fetchland and tries to go get a land. You Stifle it. Who knew Sinkhole only costs one blue mana?
Scenario 5) You open with Island -> Go. Your opponent plays a Chrome Mox and a Tropical Island, casts Flash, and puts Protean Hulk on the table and then into the Graveyard. You Stifle the trigger, and your opponent scoops. Congrats! You just beat the best deck in the format.
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it has stifle, force of will, and daze, but fish has a tad more disruption in swords and duress.
i have played against it and ironically there are a lot of tier 2 decks that can beat out fish ala burn (with good ole price of progress). also fish has major issues with goblins, but the deck seemed pretty good versus iggy pop and solidarity so it would lead me to conclude that most combo matchups are pretty favorable with the deck.
i really like the look of this deck, but i don't think it resembles madness at all. i think that, if anything, it resembles gro only without the threshold aspect.
i'll get to test against a variety of decks this weekend, so i'll keep you guys posted on how it goes.
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For the GP, you should be playing Duress in the MD, and Leylines in the SB. I'll be damned if I let some Cheaty McCheatyface do Kiki-Jiki hijinks on me.
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That would require your opponent to have a miracle opening hand.
1) Chrome Mox
2) Imprint card for Mox
3) Tropical Island
4) Flash
5) Protean Hulk
6) Force of Will
7) Blue card for FoW
And if they do have such a nutty opening, we simply return our Island to our hand and Daze their Force. And they cry rivers of sadness.
You don't...You cut crappy cards. -1 Mother, -1 Jitte, -1 Avenger for +3 Duress. Proceed to win.
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What you say!?!
I don't want to be mean, but that's not how Magic works. You would still lose once the spell wears off at EOT. Even if it didn't, you would have to drop a ton of guys to block the four Disciples he would be swinging with next turn.
Hulk Flash really isn't that great. It's not going to be good until Future Sight becomes legal. I've never lost to it, so it's not a threat at all.
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i'm pretty sure that you wouldn't lose when the spell wore off at EOT. if that's how angel's grace worked, then it would be a pointless card. you would just go to one life. but you are right about having to block the four disciples, tho. but i think the difficulty in that just depends on how early or late in the game he 'went off.'
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you are correct, sir. i thought it and worship were worded a bit differently. that's my bad. well, i guess angel's grace doesn't work against hulk flash. i hate combo decks.
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4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Creatures (15)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Meddling Mage
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
3 Stifle
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Duress
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Engineered Plague
3 Vindicate
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Serenity
This is probably the best list for the GP. Today at the Cincy trial, I came in 9th out of 29 with Threshold, breaking the streak of Top 8's. So now I'm going to be running this list at the GP. It's crazy good.
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creatures
4 birds of paradise
other spells
4 exploration
It's cute, but I don't really see the need. Also, we can't really remove anything
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I had to play against my friend in round 5, and he refused to draw me in, because he had to get in the top 8 so he could give more prizes to his other friend (:(). Anyways, everybody was running SB Leylines, and I had to beat some fish player with unthreshed men.
As for the Top 8, it was pretty janky. 2 Goblins, Thresh (UGWB), Hulk Flash, some homebrew MBA/C junk...I can't remember the rest
This current list is the GP list, because it has plenty of disruption for Hulk and even the mirror. I'm even thinking about replacing the Vindicates for Tivadar's Crusade, just so I have guaranteed wins against both Goblins and Hulk Flash
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Hi MD...seem like the expert on the deck in this forum (I'm not, just built it). I like your take with 4 Serendib efreet over the WW casting cost of the Serra Avenger, and I may do your build that over the Japanese build, which had more land and more disruption with only 2 Serendib Efreet...seems like the best finisher other than the grunt.
Could you explain your sideboard choices? Such as what you side in/out vs. what matchup? Some are obvious, some aren't. I'm very curious as to when you side in vindicate...as it tends to be a little slow on some match ups. Also, why no pithing needle? Is it no longer important in the meta?
Ones I'm most interested in are:
Faerie Stompy
Goblins
Threshold
Affinity (what do you take out for Serenity, Durress?)
****Mirror****
Faerie Stompy -
With the list on page 1, I lost 8 games in a row to Faerie Stompy. After the changes made a couple posts up, I won 6 games in a row. They put all their eggs in one basket, and if you opponent puts on the aggro-face, you will be teh winnar. If Faerie tries to play it slow, they have a chance, so make the following changes:
-3 Stifle
-1 Daze
-1 Duress
+3 Vindicate
+2 Explosives/Serenity (Serenity is better, but the opponent will probably be Chalicing for 2 like a madman)
Goblins -
This is super easy. Jitte + Plague = nutty. I haven't decided if I like Vindicate or Tivadar's Crusade more, but if you run Tivadar's, pull out 3 more Mages for it. I don't have many men, so I like keeping Mage in to name Ringleader and help block if they manage to explode.
-3 Duress
-1 Meddling Mage
+4 Engineered Plague
Threshold -
Surprisingly, Meddling Mage isn't very good in this matchup, because Leyline+Grunt are going to keep his men small, and we run a lot of the same spells. Name Enforcer/Werebear game 1, and side them out game 2.
-4 Meddling Mage
-3 Duress
+4 Leyline of the Void
+3 Vindicate
Affinity -
I actually tested against Affinity last night, and went something like 5-2 against him. Keep Plating and Ravager off the table. Duress is great because it can take away Plating, but it usually hits nothing. You can Stifle transfering modular, but I'd rather not even give him a chance to make a big Ravager.
-2 Stifle
-3 Duress
+3 Vindicate
+2 Serenity
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I can see the lack of mother being a hinderance, she has won me more games than I can count (even ones I had no place winning in the first place).
I also like the synergy with mother and negator (pro whatever color 'probably red' and beats!)... negator is undercosted and kills in 4 turns (3 with jitte).
I know you guys already think he's bad, but you should try it before you diss it you'll get a lot of crazy looks as your beating the opp down with a neg. with counter backup. I also have increased the countermagic count to 9 (+ 2 counterspell)... they seem to help out a lot!
I have been seeing a lot of mixed results from other people with the card.. but I personally love it overall.
ARE YOU GAY?
how cares if you cant get it 3rd turn... you dont need it then.
avenger also is 2cc which is just great turn 4...
dont dare drop that avenger, you need it for the dual purpose of attacking and blocking...
3 Nether Shadow BETA
2 Plateau
2 Bayou
HAVES:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=71454
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