just read that article.. there's time i'll never get back, what a waste. i hate it when people want to look cool by writting an article, only to write a bunch of commonly known facts, thanks a lot captain obvious. Oh, and lets top it off with an uninspired, unoriginal, and unproven, rock deck.
You do realize that Anwar Ahmad was one of the inventors of Eva Green (not to mention the Suicide Archetype itself) don't you? Thus he doesn't have any reason to "look cool" because simply put from the perspective of Eva Green Pilots he should BE COOL to begin with.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
fact remains that everything he said was very obvious and well known, and there's nothing new about his list either.
it's like he was tring to write for a bunch of prepubescent teens who just started playing.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
fact remains that everything he said was very obvious and well known, and there's nothing new about his list either.
it's like he was tring to write for a bunch of prepubescent teens who just started playing.
that is one of the problems I have noticed about many of the Star City Games Legacy Authors as of late. Many of them have started to write their articles with people in mind who don't seem to know much if anything about Legacy. Thus their articles come off as insulting to those of us who are veterans of the format.
It isn't anything new. Though you would think that Anwar would be one of the few who didn't fall into that hole, as he has been writing for several years regarding Legacy. Yet, I don't think he is entirely in control of what he is allowed or not allowed to write. He does write for a heavily financed corporation, so he probably has limits on what he is allowed to write.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
but he helped inovate decks like eva green and todays reanimator. he's a great player and theoryist (sp?).. he should have some more self respect.
i agree some articles need to be written in such a matter, to help new players. but he's comming off in such a way, that we're to believe that a run-of-the-mill rock deck, is such a great NEW discovery.
i'm sorry if i'm being rude.. mama always said- if you can't say anything nice, than don't say anything at all.
so how bout we drop this rediculous discussion.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Let's take the decklist out of the equation for one second. It is still a valuable read because he outlines the (very real) challenges that this deck faces.
I love Eva Green, but there's a good reason why it's not Tier 1 anymore.
- Control and Thresh variants aren't dominating the format.
- This deck struggles against combo and aggro.
- If you have a choice to either make them discard a card or counter their card, countering is the better play and you can't do that here.
- They haven't printed a better replacement for Nantuko Shade.
- Life loss is becoming a real problem in this deck. It's why I don't suggest Putrid Leech.
Anwar's article is a frustrating read, sure, because he doesn't suggest a solution. But maybe the solution is to find a deck that has better matchups against the most popular decks in the format.
The other "solution" Anwar suggests over at mtgthesource is to take out the Rituals and maindeck 4x Chalice. It gives the deck better game vs. combo at the expense of slowing it down. You can do a search for Anwar's posts in the Eva Green thread to find it.
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My book Magic: The Addiction -- now available on Amazon.
So I've been reading through some of the recent posts and after skimming through the article of choice here, I have to say that I'm still content with the current deck list I have as of now. I agree with the points Greeny made a couple posts above this one.
I like the idea of SDT, but I don't think I have a spot for enough of them. 1 seems pointless in my opinion.
Take note that Anwar doesnt suggest, at all, that the deck he proposes at the end. Hes basically suggesting suicide has to shift away from being suicide.
SDT does have a place in the deck, because in a deck like that you need to be able to filter through the crap in mid to late game.
The 2 slot seems really clogged upto me, adding white should be making you more aggressive, im not sure how i feel about 4 Quasali MD.
Im wondering where Doran and KotR are.
SDT doesnt belong in Eva green more than of a 2 of. You dont want to see it till turn 5-6 atleast.
It depends on your meta. if you have a lot of control, Eva Green will dominate. A set of Hypnotic Specters isnt much to come by, and i really dont think the evolved form of Eva Green will lose Sinkholes.
At the very least, sinkhole's value will only be going up, you will not lose any money in your investment.
Hi long time follower of the thread here.
I have always questioned the use of jitte in mainboard as it seems to take awhile before its come online and begins to amass counters. Would a buff like Rancor not be a faster answer to a more threatening creature? At 1/4 the cost of jitte being played and equipped and gives trample to goyf and shade so they are no longer chumpblockable, as well as giving ur flyers a faster clock. Also, with rancors final effect you never get 2 for 1d by creature removal.
However, i do realize jitte with counters > rancor but that takes more turns/time.
I look forward to the communities opinions regarding this ^ ^
Jitte counters = 2 life points each OR +2/+2 OR -1/-1 to target creature, it means that this little equipment will not only save the skin of your goyf, it will also kill alot of */1 and */2... abd possibly save you from death.
I understand that jitte has great versatility and even helps our Burn MU, I was just curious if anyone has ever tested or even thought of trying Rancor.
Jitte isnt played to speed up your clock, you play it for lifegain and extra removal.
The pump ability is just an added bonus of making it not dead weight when you already have good board position.
If you do want to be strictly more aggressive however, i would say go with rancor.
but if your local meta is full of iona, it will catch them off guard.
though, i really don't see reanimator being a horrible problem for this deck.
unless they get a god hand, you should be able to rip their hand apart. and they only run 16 lands, sinkhole and wasteland really sets them back. i've only played the match up once (and it was a breeze), but i'd have to say not to worry about it.
now if your talking about bant survival with loyal retainers and iona, i'd much prefer to board in grave hate and grips.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Why do some people (magic writers and whatnot) think we need to change this deck?? The problem of performance is not the deck; it's the number of people who bring it to a large event. I think 3 out of several hundred people brought Eva Green to one of the last StarCity opens. It continues to win more than 50% of games according to their statistics. Even decks such as Reanimator, Merfolk, and Zoo have scored below 50% in some SCG opens with many people playing these decks!
I personally have gone undefeated in the last 2 small tournaments I attended, and playtesting continues to go well. I really don't think there is much we need to change.
Why do some people (magic writers and whatnot) think we need to change this deck?? The problem of performance is not the deck; it's the number of people who bring it to a large event.
Yeah, but what then is the underlying reason for less people bringing the deck along to events?
this deck really shines agianst control, and to a lesser extent, combo.
agro gives us fits, but is hardly un-winnable.
the current world-wide legacy meta is dominated by agro and agro-control.
hence-
less people want to bring a deck to a tourny that in theory "should" do poorly.
i'm assuming that the few people who did bring eva to a large tourny, were very experienced with it, or possibly had some nice tech.
also, the steep price tag turns a lot of the newer players away.
question answered.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I play both, and in my experience, Eva Green is doing better in the current Meta. If you're expecting lots of combo, bring Dreadstill, otherwise I'd bring Eva Green.
i've started playing fatty-mc-boom-boom (i don't know if it has a proper name, it's u/b dreadnaughts and darkdepths, no countertop).
i ask because what i'm playing seems more closely related to eva (creatures, thoughtsieze,.. you know, to an extent). and i'm wondering if i just have an unhealthy attraction to eva. do you think naught is better suited to a countertop stratagy? i've found him, more often than not, to be a big fat blocker while i get depths on line, which seems like a lot of wasted space, and almost makes me want to go back to eva-depths. what do you think?
@ kingsey-
i've never been a fan of countertop, so i'd run eva. plus it's more straight forward and easier to pilot. lord knows, the first few tournys i tried playing countertop i went to time in almost every match because there are a lot of crucial "top" decisions you have to make.
1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I personally feel like I can beat or lose to any deck when I'm playing with Eva Green. There is no matchup where I just fold like with many matchups in the Legacy format. For this reason, I enjoy playing with Eva in an unknown meta.
A huge reason why people don't play Eva is because many of the cards are expensive AND not Legacy staples. Sinkhole, for example, is a relatively expensive card that is not used in many decks.
You do realize that Anwar Ahmad was one of the inventors of Eva Green (not to mention the Suicide Archetype itself) don't you? Thus he doesn't have any reason to "look cool" because simply put from the perspective of Eva Green Pilots he should BE COOL to begin with.
fact remains that everything he said was very obvious and well known, and there's nothing new about his list either.
it's like he was tring to write for a bunch of prepubescent teens who just started playing.
that is one of the problems I have noticed about many of the Star City Games Legacy Authors as of late. Many of them have started to write their articles with people in mind who don't seem to know much if anything about Legacy. Thus their articles come off as insulting to those of us who are veterans of the format.
It isn't anything new. Though you would think that Anwar would be one of the few who didn't fall into that hole, as he has been writing for several years regarding Legacy. Yet, I don't think he is entirely in control of what he is allowed or not allowed to write. He does write for a heavily financed corporation, so he probably has limits on what he is allowed to write.
but he helped inovate decks like eva green and todays reanimator. he's a great player and theoryist (sp?).. he should have some more self respect.
i agree some articles need to be written in such a matter, to help new players. but he's comming off in such a way, that we're to believe that a run-of-the-mill rock deck, is such a great NEW discovery.
i'm sorry if i'm being rude.. mama always said- if you can't say anything nice, than don't say anything at all.
so how bout we drop this rediculous discussion.
I love Eva Green, but there's a good reason why it's not Tier 1 anymore.
- Control and Thresh variants aren't dominating the format.
- This deck struggles against combo and aggro.
- If you have a choice to either make them discard a card or counter their card, countering is the better play and you can't do that here.
- They haven't printed a better replacement for Nantuko Shade.
- Life loss is becoming a real problem in this deck. It's why I don't suggest Putrid Leech.
Anwar's article is a frustrating read, sure, because he doesn't suggest a solution. But maybe the solution is to find a deck that has better matchups against the most popular decks in the format.
The other "solution" Anwar suggests over at mtgthesource is to take out the Rituals and maindeck 4x Chalice. It gives the deck better game vs. combo at the expense of slowing it down. You can do a search for Anwar's posts in the Eva Green thread to find it.
I like the idea of SDT, but I don't think I have a spot for enough of them. 1 seems pointless in my opinion.
Here's my list as of now:
4x Wasteland
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bayou
5x Swamp
2x Gatekeeper of Malakir
3x Tombstalker
3x Nantuko Shade
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Smother
4x Sinkhole
4x Dark Ritual
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn To Tourach
UUU - Go Go Gadget Ninjitsu! (casual)
GGG - Beatdown Elves (casual)
(G/R)(G/R)(G/R) - Progenitus/Elfball (legacy)
BBB - Crucible Pox (legacy)
(B/G)(B/G)(B/G) - Eva Green (legacy)
Visit Maelstrom Graphics for awesome signatures and avatars
SDT does have a place in the deck, because in a deck like that you need to be able to filter through the crap in mid to late game.
The 2 slot seems really clogged upto me, adding white should be making you more aggressive, im not sure how i feel about 4 Quasali MD.
Im wondering where Doran and KotR are.
SDT doesnt belong in Eva green more than of a 2 of. You dont want to see it till turn 5-6 atleast.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
At the very least, sinkhole's value will only be going up, you will not lose any money in your investment.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
I have always questioned the use of jitte in mainboard as it seems to take awhile before its come online and begins to amass counters. Would a buff like Rancor not be a faster answer to a more threatening creature? At 1/4 the cost of jitte being played and equipped and gives trample to goyf and shade so they are no longer chumpblockable, as well as giving ur flyers a faster clock. Also, with rancors final effect you never get 2 for 1d by creature removal.
However, i do realize jitte with counters > rancor but that takes more turns/time.
I look forward to the communities opinions regarding this ^ ^
- Nantuko
-Nantuko
The pump ability is just an added bonus of making it not dead weight when you already have good board position.
If you do want to be strictly more aggressive however, i would say go with rancor.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Yes
QFT!
The card will see play.
@Avatar of Shadow You could play just 1-2 tops MD in Eva Green, cuz you dont want 'em until 5-7ish turn anyhow
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Instant
Destroy target creature with flying.
------
What do you guys think of including it in the sideboard to deal with Iona naming black?
link to spoilers: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?17706-New-cards-from-M11
[180 classic cube]
but if your local meta is full of iona, it will catch them off guard.
though, i really don't see reanimator being a horrible problem for this deck.
unless they get a god hand, you should be able to rip their hand apart. and they only run 16 lands, sinkhole and wasteland really sets them back. i've only played the match up once (and it was a breeze), but i'd have to say not to worry about it.
now if your talking about bant survival with loyal retainers and iona, i'd much prefer to board in grave hate and grips.
I personally have gone undefeated in the last 2 small tournaments I attended, and playtesting continues to go well. I really don't think there is much we need to change.
Yeah, but what then is the underlying reason for less people bringing the deck along to events?
U Merfolk
UGW Bant
BGW Rock
WUB Stoneblade
RGW Zoo
this deck really shines agianst control, and to a lesser extent, combo.
agro gives us fits, but is hardly un-winnable.
the current world-wide legacy meta is dominated by agro and agro-control.
hence-
less people want to bring a deck to a tourny that in theory "should" do poorly.
i'm assuming that the few people who did bring eva to a large tourny, were very experienced with it, or possibly had some nice tech.
also, the steep price tag turns a lot of the newer players away.
question answered.
[180 classic cube]
how do you like dreadstill?
i've started playing fatty-mc-boom-boom (i don't know if it has a proper name, it's u/b dreadnaughts and darkdepths, no countertop).
i ask because what i'm playing seems more closely related to eva (creatures, thoughtsieze,.. you know, to an extent). and i'm wondering if i just have an unhealthy attraction to eva. do you think naught is better suited to a countertop stratagy? i've found him, more often than not, to be a big fat blocker while i get depths on line, which seems like a lot of wasted space, and almost makes me want to go back to eva-depths. what do you think?
@ kingsey-
i've never been a fan of countertop, so i'd run eva. plus it's more straight forward and easier to pilot. lord knows, the first few tournys i tried playing countertop i went to time in almost every match because there are a lot of crucial "top" decisions you have to make.
A huge reason why people don't play Eva is because many of the cards are expensive AND not Legacy staples. Sinkhole, for example, is a relatively expensive card that is not used in many decks.
Has anyone tried rancor in this deck yet?