That seems like a very good idea.
Thinking about fitting in the main.
Possibly a 2nd in the board.
Just wrecks so many decks if it sticks...
These decks just get shut off:
Esper Stone-Blade
Esper Deathblade
Shardless BUG
12 Post
RUG Delver
UWR Delver
BUG / Grixis Delver
Jund
And the Blood Moon really messes with
Mutavault
Creeping Tar Pit
City of Traitors
City of Brass
Rishadan Port
Wasteland
Ancient Tomb
Grove of the Burnwillows
Pendlehaven
Gaea's Cradle
Mishra's Factory
and on and on
and with this deck boasting 7 basics... we can really afford at the right moment to drop blood moon and have it be nearly as game over as RIP / Helm or a big Entreat... like the reach it gives.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Time to break out 2x Blood Moon
Curious... in the main what would you cut?
Looking at your list I am guessing the 3rd Counterbalance?
If not that tho - what other change might you recommend?
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Well, for me I'm sticking to Rip+Helm for DC. Open metagame means anything goes. The only card I expect to really see breakthrough is True Name Nemesis in various bug and stoneblade decks.
I know one thing, if you can pack Moat mainboard. It really just hurts so many decks. Same goes for Rip+Energy Field. Sometimes it just wins games on its own.
The other thing is Vendilion Clique. I have to play 3. Its just so amazing in so many matches its sick. I'm not even play the Lossett version of 3 vendilion clique/1 venser, but I am playing 2 Karakas (because of wasteland, Gaddock Teeg, Thaliz and Sneak and Show). If anything I might sideboard venser (since I am running O-Ring in his place because I have enlightened tutor).
Overall I like rip+helm. I also love Moat. Moat. Moat.
Well, for me I'm sticking to Rip+Helm for DC. Open metagame means anything goes. The only card I expect to really see breakthrough is True Name Nemesis in various bug and stoneblade decks.
I know one thing, if you can pack Moat mainboard. It really just hurts so many decks. Same goes for Rip+Energy Field. Sometimes it just wins games on its own.
The other thing is Vendilion Clique. I have to play 3. Its just so amazing in so many matches its sick. I'm not even play the Lossett version of 3 vendilion clique/1 venser, but I am playing 2 Karakas (because of wasteland, Gaddock Teeg, Thaliz and Sneak and Show). If anything I might sideboard venser (since I am running O-Ring in his place because I have enlightened tutor).
Overall I like rip+helm. I also love Moat. Moat. Moat.
I made some tweaks to my list above based on some conversation today...
-1 Entreat the Angels
-1 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Unexpectedly Absent
+1 Blood Moon
+1 Energy Field
+1 Vendilion Clique
In the SB
-1 Vendilion Clique
-1 Pyroblast
-1 Energy Field
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Blood Moon
+1 Oblivion Ring
Just feels right to have some more silver bullets in the board for Enlightened Tutor, and O-Ring seems like a strong catch all choice. Having the 2nd clique in the main means I can free up a slot in the board.
And I just thought the 3 Pyroblasts could be better as a mix so we are on 2 F-Storm and 2 P-Blast.
And as a partial hedge for TNN making a splash I have conceded a little and went the full RIP version with 3 copies, Helm and 2 Energy Field main board.
I would play a second Karakas, but I only have one, so I am going with Academy Ruins in that slot to recur Engineered Explosives, Helm if it gets countered or yanked from my hand, Pithing Needle etc.
I went down 1 Swords and an Entreat to make room because if you have those combos in place, they can serve as a win-con and extra removal making the 4th Swords not as must have. And with the extra Clique I felt I could go to 1 Entreat.
Moat is a card that I like and then don't and go back and forth.
Right now, with Delver, Sneak & Show & Reanimator being popular, the creatures that matter in those decks all fly. (Insectile Abberation, Griselbrand and Emrakul) I just think Humility is better right now.
When Goblins, Merfolk, Maverick, Elves and Punishing decks become more popular, I might go back to Moat - for now, I will stick with Humility.
Do you have a list you can share (Razefire)?
Would love to see and compare notes...
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My current list is still under revision somewhat but I will share it with you by Friday. 2 energy Field mainboard seems a bit clunky, but I am not against it, because I know abrupt decay is a real card, and death and taxes will be around with mangara/flickerwisp etc. I used to run 2 as well, moreso when bug was all over the place.
I will definitely be playing Moat in DC. I also have Humility in the sideboard specifically against death and taxes, sneak attack and elves. Moat just is a great obstacle to a lot of decks and is immune to abrupt decay. Moat also has synergy with Entreat the Angels. And for what its worth it stops true name nemesis.
I cant stress the importance of vendilion clique enough. Abushing and trading with nimble mongeese, flipped delvers, ambushing unwary maverick adversaries who attack with gaddock teeg, as well as vendilion cliques ability to cycle dead cards, attack walkers and disrupt the adversary are all relevant. One of the best cards in the deck, number one being Sdtop.
Moat and Humility are vastly different. Humility is relevant to turn off creature abilities mostly, so its more relevant against death and taxes and sneak and show, and fringe versus reanimator. Moat is an obstacle that has synergy with Entreat the Angels mainly and stops ground pounders like most tribal decks. Both are great cards, but Moat allows you to beat them up with Angels and Vendilion Cliques.
Not really, Humility turns your Clique and Angels into 1/1. Goblins and Elves will just try to spit out more creatures to try to overwhelm your life total.
Im not too sure.
Elves is a pretty easy matchup anyway. Plus turning off the come into play effects vs elves is probably still worth humility instead of moat, and potentially better as it turns off all the creature based outs to enchantments and turns off stuff like teeg.
vs goblins theyre not exactly playing all 1 drops, so fairly often with humility out theyre casting 1/1 siege gang commands and matrons for 3-5 mana. Its possible to be overwhelmed but most of the time humility is plenty good enough. Moat is defintiely better but humility never seems substantially worse.
So yeah maybe I phrased that wrong. Im sure humility isnt always better, but I want the card more than I want something like moat as moat is pretty narrow narrow, and when humility is just being a bad moat its still good enough.
Im sure its possible im totally wrong. What matches are you guys bringing in Moat for where humility doesnt do enough?
I played in DC this last weekend and ended up losing my win&in (as well as 1 other round) to this new Bant deck. The lists were a bit different though. One heavier white (with mother of runes and vial), the other more like the black/duke list. Both had true name. Im sure some of that will change as a "best" list becomes settled on but it was pretty difficult to play around daze, vial in stuff like teeg, force, mother, greensun for pridemage/teeg/etc. Maverick was always a pain and this seems like a harder maverick matchup. Did anyone else have trouble or experience with this matchup? Any thoughts on it?
I played in DC this last weekend and ended up losing my win&in (as well as 1 other round) to this new Bant deck. The lists were a bit different though. One heavier white (with mother of runes and vial), the other more like the black/duke list. Both had true name. Im sure some of that will change as a "best" list becomes settled on but it was pretty difficult to play around daze, vial in stuff like teeg, force, mother, greensun for pridemage/teeg/etc. Maverick was always a pain and this seems like a harder maverick matchup. Did anyone else have trouble or experience with this matchup? Any thoughts on it?
Some of these new developments have had me switch to Esper Miracles with lots of discard, counters and Toxic Deluge / Engineered Plague, Massacre etc. With the red in standard lists only being for Pyroblast and possibly Blood Moon, the black splash seems so much better positioned against Combo, Sneak & Show and the new problem of True-Name Nemesis. Seems pretty good to switch to black.
Much better against Maverick and Bant and anything trying to play good Green value creatures. (See also Perish though the above listed options are probably better and more versatile)
Anyone else agree with this?
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Esper is a sweet color combination no doubt but you have to weight that versus red for red blast. Red blast counters/whacks Jace, TNN on the stack, Show and Tell, Delvers and wins counter wars. Black has discard, but is discard valuable in a deck outside of tempo? We can't really take advantage of the tempo gained from discard, and we already have Vendilion Clique for peeks and disruption. Discard could be in the sideboard of course. Black has sacrifice effects like edicts and Liliana, which are powerful. There is also Baleful Strix and lingering souls. Oh and lim dul's vault for Miracle stacking......pretty powerful.
But, is the gain from esper worth the loss of red blast? I don't think we need blacks removal. We have stp, terminus and supreme verdict and engineered explosives. So, removal is redundant. Supreme verdict seems awesome against TNN decks since it cant be countered which is highly relevant. Discard? I don't think we really need it, we have vendilion clique, and she beats. Baleful Strix, well he is pretty awesome but deckspace is a concern, plus he cant stop TNN either. Lingering souls is cool, but again it cant stop TNN. Really the best black can offer to me is LDVault and sacrifice effects specifically versus TNN decks, but again is it worth the loss of red blasts. Red blasts stop highly relevant plays like show n tell, and win counter wars as well as nab jace.
I feel like red is still the best splash at the moment.
One thing I still feel strong about is blood moon. As people try to jam TNN in 3color shells the basics go out the window and then blood moon breaks their window.
I took a break from miracles for a little bit, I'm going to be gaming hard with it again. I think it is very well positioned with a good pilot at the controls.
Moat is awesome. Also with all the TNN I feel like their will be less abrupt decays flying around which makes CB/top better.
I tried the black splash a while ago when Miracles was relatively new. I don't think Miracles gains much from discard, because you're in it for the long game, and discard effects are terrible in the long game. The best you can hope for from them is to hurt combo, but your combo matchups should be okay, and throwing more countermagic if you need to to shore them up makes more sense.
For Sneak and Show (and some more fringe fatty decks like 12 Post), Humility is about the best answer (though 12 Post has more ways of dealing with it with Repeal). Even if you're playing ETA, Humility isn't terrible because you're bringing it in against decks that don't really care about your turn 10 angels. Your goal with Humility is to contain then until you can Jace them to death. Of course, Moat's good in many cases too, but not against one of the most common creature-based combo decks in the format, so I'd say it's more optional than Humility.
From my experience, the things that give Miracles the biggest headaches are decks that can kill you before you can lock them out (Sneak and Show, Merfolk, maybe Elves if you can't get a Terminus or Countertop on time), those that don't care about Counterbalance and can play around Terminus (Goblins), and those that can remove Counterbalance and land significant threats one at a time (BUG). Of these, discard can help against Sneak and Show, and marginally against Abrupt Decay decks, but Sneak and Show can recover from targeted discard relatively easily, and Abrupt Decay decks are usually also running discard, so the strength of what you're gonna be able to take from them is diluted (the theory of targeted discard is that your opponent's cards are better than yours).
So, I would value a splash that lets you stay reactive (countermagic, flash), and/or deals with things on the field. This makes your opponent lose tempo investing in resources that you blank, rather than trading one for one with cards in their hand.
Black may offer some of that, especially now with Toxic Deluge, but I question how much (for one mana more you can cast an uncounterable sweeper, and with a but of work/luck you have a 1 mana Hallowed Burial; and there's not as much Gaddok Teeg floating around these days). Red opens up some similar possibilities (Pyroclasm, Sulfur Elemental), improves your counter suite (red blasts), and offers a fantastic form of disruption against a swath of the field in Blood Moon.
Comparing the two, I think I'd still go with the red splash over black.
I am also playing this deck and after reviewing this forum (about the last 20 pages) and I can say from the Black vs. Red debate that I am on the side of favoring the black cards. Red offers Blood Moon, REB, and Wear/Tear. Black gives you: Thoughtsieze, Notion Thief, VINDICATE (something that has been overlooked in the B/R Debate, and I will touch on in depth later), Engineered Plague, and Far//Away (if you are very concerned about creatures, but I ignored this card).
Blood Moon is very powerful against the one deck that we struggle with Shardless BUG, but you can also bury them by removing the threats and resolving notion thief to keep them from climbing back into the game. This is one matchup I haven't gotten to test. I will give the input on how I have felt about the black splash:
Thoughtsieze: I have had this card be a big contributor to my success with this deck. I am currently playing 2 main/2 side to have a little extra game against combo main, and the card has been excellent. Having this card in your hand is amazing, because decks don't play around you removing the best card from your hand knowing you play Miracles (which people quickly figure out). Then against combo having the full set of these helps you pick apart their hand enough to allow you to begin sculpting against combo and allow you to make it to the long game. More than enough to warrant wanting the full 4.
Notion Thief: This card has been excellent for me in most blue matchups, allowing you to put the game to a close when you are ahead against combo and control, and against some control decks, you can pull back into the gamre by notion thiefing at the correct time. I am only playing 1 at the current time, but I am unsure that I would play a second one or not.
Vindicate: This card is the card that makes me want black in this deck. People like REB against things like Jace and TNN on the stack, which is all well and good, but the power of Vindicate is much better then the narrowness of REB. People will bring in REB against combo, which is only good against cantrips and S+T, where as using our friend thoughtsieze, we can wholly disrupt combo by taking important pieces. That opens us up to use this card in much grindier games of magic against control and BUG. IT gives us answers to hard to beat permanents (Academy ruins, Karakas, Planeswalkers) as well as killing counterbalance and being hard to counter (being a 3 drop) being able to still cast this with a counterbalance lock on the table to kill jace is powerful and very useful.
Eplague isn't necessarily something I have to go into depth about, as we obviously see it is powerful and another answer to TNN, and comes in against tribal. There is also a humility in my board, so those 2 cards can be used in conjunction to lock them out.
That is how I feel about the black cards, but I am more than open to suggestions.
Is it worth going to black over Vindicate when we have Unexpectedly Absent, though? Yeah, double white is annoying, but it's certainly easier than committing to a different color. Instant speed is also nice.
In other news, I've started working on my own primer for this deck. This is part one of two, because I want this to be a pretty in depth guide, and 6k words is my breaking point for one week . Any feedback is appreciated, particularly with regards to whether I glossed over some detail that I mistook for common knowledge.. I've spent so many hours playing this archetype, that I may have forgotten about things that might not be immediately obvious to someone trying to learn it, and neglected to fully explain something.
Also, panavision, do I know you? You don't play at 20 sided by any chance, do you?
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just picked up rest of this deck because I love how it controls most match ups.
my question is: what does this deck actually lose to? it seems like it flat out beats anything and is very consistent, except for the abrupt decay decks.
cant wait to start testing this deck out!
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Second, the deck doesn't lose to Abrupt Decay deck, at least not because of Abrupt Decay.
Third, there're different builds, Entreat build and Rip-Helm build are very different, which one did you pick up.
Fourth, the deck has no shot against 12 Posts.
Last but not the least, the learning curve of this deck is Steep. Allow me to stress this by repeating, it takes Time to learn all the intricate decision-makings and you might still end up with lots of draws. You cannot let the frustrations getting to you.
I wouldn't call the 12 Post matchup unwinnable. I've played against it twice in major events, once in a win-and-in at an Open and once in the 4-1 or 5-1 bracket at Legacy Champs last fall. In the win-and-in, I punted away the on-board kill (on camera, no less) that would have put me into the top 8. In Philly, game three went long enough that when they cast Emrakul, I responded by putting eight angels into play, leaving me with enough to feed annihilator and kill on the swing back. The easiest way to win, outside of the variance of one player flooding out/getting land-screwed, is Blood Moon. I didn't have access to it in either of my matches. Without Moon, it really comes down to whether we can establish CounterTop in the first three turns AND have Clique to start getting the beats in before their inevitability takes over. You're right, it's damn hard, but I don't believe in the no-win scenario.
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My articles go up every Thursday at midnight (EST). They're usually about Legacy, but I'll occasionally write about Standard or Modern.
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I typically stream 2-3 Legacy dailies per week. These are my most common times: Sun 8:30pm EST, Tue 10:30pm EST, Wed 8:30pm EST
11pm EST on weeknights will be my most common time, for now, but here's hoping that WotC goes back to the staggered schedule!
It doesn't shut down SDTop completely which is our most vital card (to me). However, that being said its another good hatebear that will most likely see play in sideboards, and possibly maindeck in Death and Taxes and Maverick. Just have friends proxy it and play against it. SDTop still delivers card selection, which can still help us find removal. My fear is it being protected by Mom and coupled with Thalia and Phyrexian Revoker, then the combination of things becomes taxing. And, thats the scary part, the fact SotL will be used in conjunction with other hatebears to make a strong disruption package.
Top still works on their turn to trigger Miracles.
Also it's not exactly correct to compare Spirit of the Labyrinth to Notion Thief. The jump to 4cmc from 2cmc is absolutely critical as to why Notion Thief stopped seeing play after the initial hype.
Top still works on their turn to trigger Miracles.
Also it's not exactly correct to compare Spirit of the Labyrinth to Notion Thief. The jump to 4cmc from 2cmc is absolutely critical as to why Notion Thief stopped seeing play after the initial hype.
Yeah. The difference between 2 and 4 mana is huge. Brainstorm decks are in a much better position to remove or counter a notion thief in response on turn 4 than they are on turn 2. Especially on the play, Labyrinth Spirit stands a much better chance of actually stopping the cantrips you haven't played yet.
Its been done before by Zack Mullin awhile back, for a similar reason, against DRShaman and Liliana of the Veil, and it worked. The worst part was the manabase, but why not be greedy one in a while, it's Legacy. Plus PFire is great versus Delver Ding Dong too. I'm so tempted to run to PFire. Maybe for the next even in Somerset NJ in a few weeks.
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Thinking about fitting in the main.
Possibly a 2nd in the board.
Just wrecks so many decks if it sticks...
These decks just get shut off:
Esper Stone-Blade
Esper Deathblade
Shardless BUG
12 Post
RUG Delver
UWR Delver
BUG / Grixis Delver
Jund
And the Blood Moon really messes with
Mutavault
Creeping Tar Pit
City of Traitors
City of Brass
Rishadan Port
Wasteland
Ancient Tomb
Grove of the Burnwillows
Pendlehaven
Gaea's Cradle
Mishra's Factory
and on and on
and with this deck boasting 7 basics... we can really afford at the right moment to drop blood moon and have it be nearly as game over as RIP / Helm or a big Entreat... like the reach it gives.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Time to break out 2x Blood Moon
Curious... in the main what would you cut?
Looking at your list I am guessing the 3rd Counterbalance?
If not that tho - what other change might you recommend?
Cheers
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I know one thing, if you can pack Moat mainboard. It really just hurts so many decks. Same goes for Rip+Energy Field. Sometimes it just wins games on its own.
The other thing is Vendilion Clique. I have to play 3. Its just so amazing in so many matches its sick. I'm not even play the Lossett version of 3 vendilion clique/1 venser, but I am playing 2 Karakas (because of wasteland, Gaddock Teeg, Thaliz and Sneak and Show). If anything I might sideboard venser (since I am running O-Ring in his place because I have enlightened tutor).
Overall I like rip+helm. I also love Moat. Moat. Moat.
I made some tweaks to my list above based on some conversation today...
-1 Entreat the Angels
-1 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Unexpectedly Absent
+1 Blood Moon
+1 Energy Field
+1 Vendilion Clique
In the SB
-1 Vendilion Clique
-1 Pyroblast
-1 Energy Field
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Blood Moon
+1 Oblivion Ring
Just feels right to have some more silver bullets in the board for Enlightened Tutor, and O-Ring seems like a strong catch all choice. Having the 2nd clique in the main means I can free up a slot in the board.
And I just thought the 3 Pyroblasts could be better as a mix so we are on 2 F-Storm and 2 P-Blast.
And as a partial hedge for TNN making a splash I have conceded a little and went the full RIP version with 3 copies, Helm and 2 Energy Field main board.
I would play a second Karakas, but I only have one, so I am going with Academy Ruins in that slot to recur Engineered Explosives, Helm if it gets countered or yanked from my hand, Pithing Needle etc.
I went down 1 Swords and an Entreat to make room because if you have those combos in place, they can serve as a win-con and extra removal making the 4th Swords not as must have. And with the extra Clique I felt I could go to 1 Entreat.
Moat is a card that I like and then don't and go back and forth.
Right now, with Delver, Sneak & Show & Reanimator being popular, the creatures that matter in those decks all fly. (Insectile Abberation, Griselbrand and Emrakul) I just think Humility is better right now.
When Goblins, Merfolk, Maverick, Elves and Punishing decks become more popular, I might go back to Moat - for now, I will stick with Humility.
Do you have a list you can share (Razefire)?
Would love to see and compare notes...
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I will definitely be playing Moat in DC. I also have Humility in the sideboard specifically against death and taxes, sneak attack and elves. Moat just is a great obstacle to a lot of decks and is immune to abrupt decay. Moat also has synergy with Entreat the Angels. And for what its worth it stops true name nemesis.
I cant stress the importance of vendilion clique enough. Abushing and trading with nimble mongeese, flipped delvers, ambushing unwary maverick adversaries who attack with gaddock teeg, as well as vendilion cliques ability to cycle dead cards, attack walkers and disrupt the adversary are all relevant. One of the best cards in the deck, number one being Sdtop.
I agree with Moat being excellent right now.
Red is by far the best splash right now, It's almost mandatory at this point for the power it gives, especially since you can REB a casted TNN.
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Im not too sure.
Elves is a pretty easy matchup anyway. Plus turning off the come into play effects vs elves is probably still worth humility instead of moat, and potentially better as it turns off all the creature based outs to enchantments and turns off stuff like teeg.
vs goblins theyre not exactly playing all 1 drops, so fairly often with humility out theyre casting 1/1 siege gang commands and matrons for 3-5 mana. Its possible to be overwhelmed but most of the time humility is plenty good enough. Moat is defintiely better but humility never seems substantially worse.
So yeah maybe I phrased that wrong. Im sure humility isnt always better, but I want the card more than I want something like moat as moat is pretty narrow narrow, and when humility is just being a bad moat its still good enough.
Im sure its possible im totally wrong. What matches are you guys bringing in Moat for where humility doesnt do enough?
I played in DC this last weekend and ended up losing my win&in (as well as 1 other round) to this new Bant deck. The lists were a bit different though. One heavier white (with mother of runes and vial), the other more like the black/duke list. Both had true name. Im sure some of that will change as a "best" list becomes settled on but it was pretty difficult to play around daze, vial in stuff like teeg, force, mother, greensun for pridemage/teeg/etc. Maverick was always a pain and this seems like a harder maverick matchup. Did anyone else have trouble or experience with this matchup? Any thoughts on it?
Some of these new developments have had me switch to Esper Miracles with lots of discard, counters and Toxic Deluge / Engineered Plague, Massacre etc. With the red in standard lists only being for Pyroblast and possibly Blood Moon, the black splash seems so much better positioned against Combo, Sneak & Show and the new problem of True-Name Nemesis. Seems pretty good to switch to black.
Much better against Maverick and Bant and anything trying to play good Green value creatures. (See also Perish though the above listed options are probably better and more versatile)
Anyone else agree with this?
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But, is the gain from esper worth the loss of red blast? I don't think we need blacks removal. We have stp, terminus and supreme verdict and engineered explosives. So, removal is redundant. Supreme verdict seems awesome against TNN decks since it cant be countered which is highly relevant. Discard? I don't think we really need it, we have vendilion clique, and she beats. Baleful Strix, well he is pretty awesome but deckspace is a concern, plus he cant stop TNN either. Lingering souls is cool, but again it cant stop TNN. Really the best black can offer to me is LDVault and sacrifice effects specifically versus TNN decks, but again is it worth the loss of red blasts. Red blasts stop highly relevant plays like show n tell, and win counter wars as well as nab jace.
One thing I still feel strong about is blood moon. As people try to jam TNN in 3color shells the basics go out the window and then blood moon breaks their window.
I took a break from miracles for a little bit, I'm going to be gaming hard with it again. I think it is very well positioned with a good pilot at the controls.
Moat is awesome. Also with all the TNN I feel like their will be less abrupt decays flying around which makes CB/top better.
For Sneak and Show (and some more fringe fatty decks like 12 Post), Humility is about the best answer (though 12 Post has more ways of dealing with it with Repeal). Even if you're playing ETA, Humility isn't terrible because you're bringing it in against decks that don't really care about your turn 10 angels. Your goal with Humility is to contain then until you can Jace them to death. Of course, Moat's good in many cases too, but not against one of the most common creature-based combo decks in the format, so I'd say it's more optional than Humility.
From my experience, the things that give Miracles the biggest headaches are decks that can kill you before you can lock them out (Sneak and Show, Merfolk, maybe Elves if you can't get a Terminus or Countertop on time), those that don't care about Counterbalance and can play around Terminus (Goblins), and those that can remove Counterbalance and land significant threats one at a time (BUG). Of these, discard can help against Sneak and Show, and marginally against Abrupt Decay decks, but Sneak and Show can recover from targeted discard relatively easily, and Abrupt Decay decks are usually also running discard, so the strength of what you're gonna be able to take from them is diluted (the theory of targeted discard is that your opponent's cards are better than yours).
So, I would value a splash that lets you stay reactive (countermagic, flash), and/or deals with things on the field. This makes your opponent lose tempo investing in resources that you blank, rather than trading one for one with cards in their hand.
Black may offer some of that, especially now with Toxic Deluge, but I question how much (for one mana more you can cast an uncounterable sweeper, and with a but of work/luck you have a 1 mana Hallowed Burial; and there's not as much Gaddok Teeg floating around these days). Red opens up some similar possibilities (Pyroclasm, Sulfur Elemental), improves your counter suite (red blasts), and offers a fantastic form of disruption against a swath of the field in Blood Moon.
Comparing the two, I think I'd still go with the red splash over black.
Blood Moon is very powerful against the one deck that we struggle with Shardless BUG, but you can also bury them by removing the threats and resolving notion thief to keep them from climbing back into the game. This is one matchup I haven't gotten to test. I will give the input on how I have felt about the black splash:
Thoughtsieze: I have had this card be a big contributor to my success with this deck. I am currently playing 2 main/2 side to have a little extra game against combo main, and the card has been excellent. Having this card in your hand is amazing, because decks don't play around you removing the best card from your hand knowing you play Miracles (which people quickly figure out). Then against combo having the full set of these helps you pick apart their hand enough to allow you to begin sculpting against combo and allow you to make it to the long game. More than enough to warrant wanting the full 4.
Notion Thief: This card has been excellent for me in most blue matchups, allowing you to put the game to a close when you are ahead against combo and control, and against some control decks, you can pull back into the gamre by notion thiefing at the correct time. I am only playing 1 at the current time, but I am unsure that I would play a second one or not.
Vindicate: This card is the card that makes me want black in this deck. People like REB against things like Jace and TNN on the stack, which is all well and good, but the power of Vindicate is much better then the narrowness of REB. People will bring in REB against combo, which is only good against cantrips and S+T, where as using our friend thoughtsieze, we can wholly disrupt combo by taking important pieces. That opens us up to use this card in much grindier games of magic against control and BUG. IT gives us answers to hard to beat permanents (Academy ruins, Karakas, Planeswalkers) as well as killing counterbalance and being hard to counter (being a 3 drop) being able to still cast this with a counterbalance lock on the table to kill jace is powerful and very useful.
Eplague isn't necessarily something I have to go into depth about, as we obviously see it is powerful and another answer to TNN, and comes in against tribal. There is also a humility in my board, so those 2 cards can be used in conjunction to lock them out.
That is how I feel about the black cards, but I am more than open to suggestions.
In other news, I've started working on my own primer for this deck. This is part one of two, because I want this to be a pretty in depth guide, and 6k words is my breaking point for one week . Any feedback is appreciated, particularly with regards to whether I glossed over some detail that I mistook for common knowledge.. I've spent so many hours playing this archetype, that I may have forgotten about things that might not be immediately obvious to someone trying to learn it, and neglected to fully explain something.
http://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2013/12/hope-eternal-last-article-will-ever-write-miracles/
Also, panavision, do I know you? You don't play at 20 sided by any chance, do you?
My articles go up every Thursday at midnight (EST). They're usually about Legacy, but I'll occasionally write about Standard or Modern.
My Twitch
I typically stream 2-3 Legacy dailies per week. These are my most common times:
Sun 8:30pm EST, Tue 10:30pm EST, Wed 8:30pm EST11pm EST on weeknights will be my most common time, for now, but here's hoping that WotC goes back to the staggered schedule!
Sometimes I wish I had more copies of wear//tear just so I can leave one in my top3 for countertop to use, it's such a wonderful thing.
"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
—Ertai, wizard adept
Legacy: UW Miracle, U MUC, UW StoneBlade, U Merfolk, R Burn, & UB Reanimator
EDH: U Azami, Lady of Scrolls & URG Riku of Two Reflections
Casual: UR Dragonstorm, UB Dralnu-Teachings, U NinjaFae, & UR Izzet EDH
my question is: what does this deck actually lose to? it seems like it flat out beats anything and is very consistent, except for the abrupt decay decks.
cant wait to start testing this deck out!
I wouldn't call the 12 Post matchup unwinnable. I've played against it twice in major events, once in a win-and-in at an Open and once in the 4-1 or 5-1 bracket at Legacy Champs last fall. In the win-and-in, I punted away the on-board kill (on camera, no less) that would have put me into the top 8. In Philly, game three went long enough that when they cast Emrakul, I responded by putting eight angels into play, leaving me with enough to feed annihilator and kill on the swing back. The easiest way to win, outside of the variance of one player flooding out/getting land-screwed, is Blood Moon. I didn't have access to it in either of my matches. Without Moon, it really comes down to whether we can establish CounterTop in the first three turns AND have Clique to start getting the beats in before their inevitability takes over. You're right, it's damn hard, but I don't believe in the no-win scenario.
My articles go up every Thursday at midnight (EST). They're usually about Legacy, but I'll occasionally write about Standard or Modern.
My Twitch
I typically stream 2-3 Legacy dailies per week. These are my most common times:
Sun 8:30pm EST, Tue 10:30pm EST, Wed 8:30pm EST11pm EST on weeknights will be my most common time, for now, but here's hoping that WotC goes back to the staggered schedule!
Also it's not exactly correct to compare Spirit of the Labyrinth to Notion Thief. The jump to 4cmc from 2cmc is absolutely critical as to why Notion Thief stopped seeing play after the initial hype.
Yeah. The difference between 2 and 4 mana is huge. Brainstorm decks are in a much better position to remove or counter a notion thief in response on turn 4 than they are on turn 2. Especially on the play, Labyrinth Spirit stands a much better chance of actually stopping the cantrips you haven't played yet.