Thanks Sounds reasonable, i'll try that for starters!
Well, that was helpful...
Anyone has any tips for my 2nd question?
Im sort of in the "board by intuition" school, I think you generally get a handle on the deck, and you quickly realize which cards do close to nothing in a matchup. Once youre comfortable with the deck youll have a pretty good idea of what to take out. also legacy decks in general have fairly linear game plans so its pretty common to have dead cards to take out in each match. With binek's sideboard:
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Counterspell
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Energy Field
1 Humility
1 Disenchant
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Red Elemental Blast
swords comes in vs aggro. fine vs reanimator and its ok vs tinfins.
tutor comes in when any of your enchantments can end the game.
cards that autowin can be rest in peace, blood moon, and sometimes you desperately want a turn 2 counterbalance, maybe energy field. its just super match dependent.
the extra counter is good for control mirrors. can be fine vs combo too.
explosives is good vs aggro and also good vs chalice decks, which can be a pain to play against when they turn 1 chalice for 1.
bridge is for show and tell. fine vs tinfins as well, but a bit slow.
canonist is for storm, high tide, etc. it will for sure be abrupt decayed.
energy field is mostly just good for burn. most decks are probably already boarding in abrupt decay vs you so dont expect too much from this card vs. decks that can cast it.
humility is for show and tell. its really only good if you let them resolve show and tell though, not something you want to just jam on turn4 and pass as they will just bounce it.
giest - im not really wild about it but apparently its to put a clock on combo. i prefer clique for that.
clique - i think clique is great vs combo as it puts a clock and disrupts a bit. can be great in response to a show and tell, but still with some risk obviously.
reb - the real reason to splash red. great vs show, tide or any deck with jace.
think thats roughly the idea. im sure im forgetting a few things.
I think youre in trouble with shocks too. Theres plenty of games where you stabilize just out of bolt range or where you need to crack a fetch and use the mana to top and you will be punished pretty bad. You could try cutting the red splash and playing more basics and a couple mystic gates/glacial forts. gate is actually nice because you can make any combination of mana turn 2/3 with basics.
I modified Jack Colwell's list from SCG: Las Vegas with some preference card choices. I didn't really like Elspeth, Knight-Errant as I felt she was not necessary as a win-condition, plus the singleton Ponder from his list didn't do it for me, so I cut those 2 to make room for 2 Spell Pierces in the main. I also replaced 1 Island for a Volcanic Island as I found that I didn't have enough red mana when I wanted it, especially post-board when I bring in REB's and the Engineered Explosives. I also went with 3 Misty Rainforests because I didn't have the extra Scalding Tarns, but I honestly never missed them.
Below is a short recap of yesterday's matchups, based from memory (I should really start taking down more notes when I play in Tournaments):
Round 1: Belcher - Won 2-1
Game 1, I mulliganed into a hand with 1 FoW and no blue cards to pitch to it, plus 4 lands and a Top, not knowing I was facing Belcher. He cast Gitaxian Probe on me, seeing I had no way to stop him, and he cast Empty the Warrens for 10 goblins. I lost quickly afterwards.
Game 2, I had FoW and Spell Pierce in my opening hand, and I was able to stop his first attempt, with CB+Top coming down later to lock the game, and Helm + RIP to win the game.
Game 3, I opened with 2 FoW's, a CB, a Spell Pierce and 3 lands. I stopped a Turn 1 Belcher dead in its tracks, and was able to get Helm + RIP later on to seal the deal.
Round 2: All Spells - Won 2-0
Game 1, I Spell Pierced a Cabal Ritual with only 1 floating mana remaining, and he was forced to pass the turn. RIP went down later on, and he was forced to scoop.
Game 2 played out similarly, with RIP locking him out of his win-con and Helm finished a few turns later.
Round 3: Omnishow - Lost 0-2
Game 1, he spent his first 2 turns sculpting his hand. A turn 3 Show and Tell into Omniscience with 1 FoW and 1 Misdirection backup made short work of the match.
Game 2, I was able to answer his first Show and Tell with a Detention Sphere, but I did not draw into any answers for his 2nd Show and Tell into Omniscience.
Round 4: Mono-Black Control - Won 2-0
Game 1, Met some early game disruption in the form of Inquisition of Kozilek and Sinkhole. A Phyrexian Arena later made its way to his side. Luckily, he kept drawing into creature-removal, and I was able to assemble lands for the RIP + Helm combo finish.
Game 2, he mulliganed to 4 cards. Again, early disruption in the form of discard. I was able to land SDT + CB early on, and I was able to stop 2 Hymn to Tourachs. I assembled RIP + Helm and finished a few turns later.
Round 5: Manaless Dredge - Won 2-0
I've already seen my next opponent in the other tables during the early rounds, so I knew what to expect. I won the die roll and opted to Draw, giving myself a virtual Time-walk.
Game 1, I drew into 3 Swords to Plowshares and kept exiling his creatures to avoid having fodder for Dread Return and Bridge for Below. I eventually landed a Rest in Peace and was able to draw into Helm a few turns later.
Game 2, I played 2 Rest in Peace just to ensure that it survives removal. I was luckily able to blind-flip a 1-cost spell through Counterbalance to counter his first Nature's Claim. He had a second one, but with 2 RIP's in play, he was still deadlocked. I was able to tutor for the Helm the following turn and seal the deal.
Round 6: Combo Elves - Won 2-0
Game 1, I was able to hit an early Terminus on a board containing a Dryad Arbor, Heritage Druid and Wirewood Symbiote, leaving him with 1 land. A CB+Top locked the board position, while Vendilion Clique slowly whittled his life to 0.
Game 2, and early CB+Top was able to control his field. He was able to resolve a Natural Order for Progenitus, but a timely Terminus took care of the hydra before it could do some damage. RIP + Helm a few turns later won the game for me.
Round 7: RUG Delver - Won 2-0
My opponent decided to drop out of the tournament due to fatigue and hunger, so he gave the round to me.
Standing after 7 Rounds: 2nd Place
Quarterfinals: Sneak Show - Won 2-0
I was paired against a teammate, so we decided to play only one game for all the marbles, as it didn't really matter to us which one of us moves on to the Top 4. I was able to stop his Sneak Attack with CB by flipping a JTMS off the top of my Library. His Show and Tell 2 turns after met with no resistance, as I already played RIP a turn before, and had Helm in hand, with enough mana open to activate it on the same turn. He was my ride home, and for the remainder of the tournament, he was making jokes about having to find my own way home. Hahaha!
We ended up splitting Top 4, and I went home with a Revised Tundra and some cash for my efforts.
All in all, it was a great choice for our local meta, and I would not think twice about using this deck in the next major event.
Props to the TO for a well-run event, and to my opponents as well for being such great sports!
Been playing U/W control since landstill was the premiere control deck. Moved to a stoneblade deck when SFM was released, then moved to the more aggressive tezzeret control + thopters, then moved to miracles when they were released. Went back to thopterbalance, and then RIP was spoiled, and E-tutors started to get added to miracles, so I'm basically playing a mesh of the two because they're so similar.
I've been playing a UWr version literally forever, thopterbalance lists generally all played UWbr for the EE colors and blood moon. I basically cut the sword of the meek + foundry in place of RIP + Helm, cut the academy ruins + EE in favor of terminus, and wrapped it up!
My sideboard needs updating, it's been a while. (List updated 8/19/13)
What's the general consensus on entreat the angels count? 1? 2?
I maindeck the humility and moat because old habits die hard from all the days playing thopterbalance, I love to have both of them there as E-tutor targets. I might cut the moat to the board, and leave the humility main, but we'll see.
How important is that single VClique? I had this list made before that SCG list, and now I see a lot of people running it.
I do not understand the point of running Entreat the Angel when you MD Humility. My justification for Humility over moat is the diversity of hosing Humility provides, great card against Sneak and Show. Moat on the other hand, provides more synergy for your angels than Humility. I personally would not MD both. Most competitive Top 8 lists don't MD them, but of course you can try to be the trend setter.
Clique is huge, given you have Karakas. You have 5 removals, 3 StP + 2 Terminus, I feel you're underestimating Death and Taxes and overly relying on Moat/Humility.
Yeah, true.
I just have always loved the Humility/Moat lock, ever since I played monowhite stax. I could possibly do the following:
-1 Moat
-1 Humlity
+1 Clique
+1 Terminus
But then I'd look like every other miracles deck out there.
Can any one justify why joe lossette brought in pithing needle against goblins? I understand that it can stop vial/port but it seems like -1 card against them. Thoughts? To me it just seemed out of place in that game.
Can any one justify why joe lossette brought in pithing needle against goblins? I understand that it can stop vial/port but it seems like -1 card against them. Thoughts? To me it just seemed out of place in that game.
Primarily for AEther Vial, which is one way Goblins can ignore UW's strategy of controlling the stack. Hitting Wasteland also helps in some tight spots, but that's less of a concern than eliminating a huge source of mana advantage.
It's not ideal, but it's better than other options in Joe's deck.
Engineered Explosives is rather good against Vial decks primarily because it can answer Vial before it gets out of hand - say on Turn 2.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Twitter - @MTGKoby | MODO - Koby 5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
1: I have a TON of dead cards to board out.
2: It is a fairly useful card in the matchup. If they drop a first turn Aether Vial, I am very happy to take it away from them. If not, or assuming I draw it later in the game, I use it to protect my mana. I would prefer to stop Wasteland since Rishadan Port uses up a lot of their mana, but that has never actually happened. Usually I find it somewhere in the middle of a game and they have already Wasted once and are using a Port to lock me down each turn. Having access to four mana total as well as double white is pretty important, and Needle on Port can help me achieve that.
If I for some reason I had two in the board, I would happily bring in both of them.
1: I have a TON of dead cards to board out.
2: It is a fairly useful card in the matchup. If they drop a first turn Aether Vial, I am very happy to take it away from them. If not, or assuming I draw it later in the game, I use it to protect my mana. I would prefer to stop Wasteland since Rishadan Port uses up a lot of their mana, but that has never actually happened. Usually I find it somewhere in the middle of a game and they have already Wasted once and are using a Port to lock me down each turn. Having access to four mana total as well as double white is pretty important, and Needle on Port can help me achieve that.
If I for some reason I had two in the board, I would happily bring in both of them.
I guess if you're answering boarding questions, curious about the blue blasts and why they're worth the slots to you.
Also, ive been playing a version very similar to yours since I was usually pretty bummed to have dead cards with helm combo in a lot of matches. I tried out the filter lands as well, but I felt like I would flood out or get top locked too much without the extra shuffle effects. Do you still run into choke? Have you experimented with dropping a land or two and working in something like ponder or portent?
Nice work btw. always enjoy watching your matches.
twndomn, I appreciate the support you usually give me, but you need to read more carefully. Panavision said that he plays a version like mine because he was tired of getting stuck with RIP/Helm at times.
Blue blasts are in the deck because they are useful against burn, but better against the field than sphere of law.
twndomn, I appreciate the support you usually give me, but you need to read more carefully. Panavision said that he plays a version like mine because he was tired of getting stuck with RIP/Helm at times.
Blue blasts are in the deck because they are useful against burn, but better against the field than sphere of law.
Makes sense. Dont often see burn here in my local meta, so sorta easy to forget about it.
Thank you for your response Oarsman. I agree that the tops could be useful and against goblins we have way too many dead cards. I was just trying to figure out your logic for it. I also imagine blue blast would be not terrible against sneak attack. It cannot be misdirected but again it could not be the greatest option.
Thank you for the responses and i look forward to reading your next article.
Ironically, I like the Blue Blasts specifically against Sneak Attack, because if I lose to that deck it often because Sneak Attack resolved and I have no out. If Burn was around more, then it pull more duty. Plus, BeBlast can nab a Goblin (not piledriver, but still can whack lackey).
Prolly like most Miracle players I tried Rip/Helm, but the fact multiple Rip draws suck and Helm does nothing but combo with Rip, it quickly became frustrating to draw multiple Rips or Helm of I had no Rip in play. I don't think the combo is bad, but it consumes slots that are better devoted to actual control and card advantage.
Does Moat have any place in the 75, or is humility that much better? I'm so used to playing both maindeck, but I'm going to have to cut them eventually.
I don't know where you copied the December list from, but it is wrong. I was not playing misdirection back then, nor did I have RIP maindeck. In place of them I had a pair of Snapcaster Mages.
So, been playing this deck a ton in my local meta and it's probably my favoriate deck.
One match up that I seem to be really struggling with is the elves match up. It seems like it should be a real easy match up with terminus to answer the elves and counterspell to stop key combo pieces.
However, I have found that I often time just run out of answers for them and can't get anything to lock them down. All the while, random 1/1 and 2/2 beat downs do add up.
Elves rebuild their hand incredibly fast with recurring visionaries, regal force, and glimpse of nature. They can just combo off and win, and all the while you are under an increasing clock with just 1/1 and 2/2 beat downs.
So, what's the key to playing against elves? what do I target with my swords and what should be my primary objective when playing against elves?
How long have you been playing Miracle? Miracle's known for its steep learning curve. Usually StP Heritage Druid is fine. If you really want to defeat Elves, SB Chalice of the Void and set it at 1. That should buy you enough time to establish board control.
Been playing Miracles for about 4-5 month now as my primary deck. I really like the fact that it truly is a deck that has answers to about everything.
Elves is one match up where I'm still having a lot of trouble understanding the decision path.
Heritage druid is usually always protected by a symbiote, but even the games where I do remove the heritage druid, gaea's cradle gives them plenty of mana to GSZ or natural order out something scary.
I tried going for early lock via counterbalance/top or RIP/Energy field, but that's usually met with GSZ for harmonic sliver or abrupt decay followed up either glimpse or natural order.
Terminus is usually great when gaddock teeg is not in play, but I'm really not sure on when to fire it off. Firing it too early usually result in them just playing out more elves, firing it off too late usually means they've already glimpsed, GSZ or Natural ordered for regal force and then I'm so behind on cards that it doesn't seem to do anything either.
Finally, even games where I've hit all of my removal, terminus and lock piece, I'm usually still left staring down a DRS or some elvish visionaries that's beating me down while I try to dig for more removal, which in turn gives them more draw steps to pull abrupty decay, GSZ, or some other way they have to break the lock.
What i try to do in this matchup is increase my removal. If you have engineered explosives. Setting that on 1 will really slow them down. They will be forced to hold cards back until they feel they can combo off or play through it. At that point they delay their plan enough for you to draw something more relevant.
What i also try to do is board in moat / humility lock against them. Both on their own will really put a hinder on their plans. Humility will stop them from combing off and force them to go the aggro route which we are vastly superior against. Moat will force them to go the GSZ or sliver route which will buy us a lot more time to sit back and collect cards we need.
my boarding strategy:
+2 path to exile
+1 moat
+1 humility
+1 engineered explosives
-1 jace
-1 counterbalance
-2 entreat the angels
-clique
For me, the key to beating elves is understanding what exactly it is that you need to counter or kill.
There are really only 2 spells that are auto-counters - Glimpse of Nature and Natural Order (in the case of the Craterhoof Build). If you have extra counterspells or a Counterbalance lock in place, try to stop them from resolving GSZ and Crop Rotation as well.
Also, you will need to understand their board state and determine if they have all the conditions to setup a combo. For example:
If you see their board can produce 3 or 4 mana on their turn, prepare for Natural Order
If you see 2 Elves in play, and they play a 3rd one, respond with a counterspell or an StP on one of the other elves if one of those 3 is a Heritage Druid
Even without Glimpse of Nature, they can generate a lot of card-draw with the Elvish Visionary + Wirewood Symbiote mini-combo. They will play Visionary, draw a card, bounce visionary and play it again for another card, then bounce Visionary on your turn to repeat the process on his turn. Either counter Visionary, or kill Wirewood Symbiote to mitigate the damage
Remember that their combo ends in 1 of 3 ways: A)They Glimpse and draw a bunch of cards and basically play their whole deck, B)They unload what they can from hand, and finish with a Natural Order; C)They unload their hand without Glimpse or NO, but end up with a lot of creatures in play. Of the 3 scenarios, C) is the easiest to answer, as 1 Terminus will ruin their day. For scenarios A) and B), having a timely counterspell will stop it from happening, effectively turning them to scenario C).
Of course, hitting a Counterbalance lock early enough will shift the game in your favor.
Post-board, you can add additional board-wipe effects and counterspells (don't board out FoW - they are an unfair deck disguised as Tribal Aggro). One good tech against them as well is Ethersworn Canonist, it puts a monkey wrench in their gameplan. Watch out for Abrupt Decay if you see they play black.
All in all, Miracles are favored against Elves. All it takes is an understanding on how Elves works, and you will do fine.
For me, the key to beating elves is understanding what exactly it is that you need to counter or kill.
There are really only 2 spells that are auto-counters - Glimpse of Nature and Natural Order (in the case of the Craterhoof Build). If you have extra counterspells or a Counterbalance lock in place, try to stop them from resolving GSZ and Crop Rotation as well.
Also, you will need to understand their board state and determine if they have all the conditions to setup a combo. For example:
If you see their board can produce 3 or 4 mana on their turn, prepare for Natural Order
If you see 2 Elves in play, and they play a 3rd one, respond with a counterspell or an StP on one of the other elves if one of those 3 is a Heritage Druid
Even without Glimpse of Nature, they can generate a lot of card-draw with the Elvish Visionary + Wirewood Symbiote mini-combo. They will play Visionary, draw a card, bounce visionary and play it again for another card, then bounce Visionary on your turn to repeat the process on his turn. Either counter Visionary, or kill Wirewood Symbiote to mitigate the damage
Remember that their combo ends in 1 of 3 ways: A)They Glimpse and draw a bunch of cards and basically play their whole deck, B)They unload what they can from hand, and finish with a Natural Order; C)They unload their hand without Glimpse or NO, but end up with a lot of creatures in play. Of the 3 scenarios, C) is the easiest to answer, as 1 Terminus will ruin their day. For scenarios A) and B), having a timely counterspell will stop it from happening, effectively turning them to scenario C).
Of course, hitting a Counterbalance lock early enough will shift the game in your favor.
Post-board, you can add additional board-wipe effects and counterspells (don't board out FoW - they are an unfair deck disguised as Tribal Aggro). One good tech against them as well is Ethersworn Canonist, it puts a monkey wrench in their gameplan. Watch out for Abrupt Decay if you see they play black.
All in all, Miracles are favored against Elves. All it takes is an understanding on how Elves works, and you will do fine.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I was probably siding out too many counterspells against them. But what I'll probably do is pick up the elves deck and play it for a while. Not a fan of the deck, but there's no better way to learn how to defeat a deck than play the deck myself.
Just my $.02 (Have not ever lost to elves with Miracles):
Board in Meddling Mage for their answers to Counterbalance, stick counterbalance. Then wrath them or setup Energy Field or Moat. The combo isn't fast enough to be that scary and they are pretty bad at the beatdown plan. Never board out any counterspells. Trim wincons that won't come online or be relevant in time (Jace / Entreat)
I don't believe you can attach Faith's Fetters (or any aura) to your opponent's S&T permanent because that permanent is not technically on the battlefield as Faith's Fetters is coming into play, which is when you have to choose what to attach it to.
Elves is typically pretty fragile to a well-timed Terminus. Also Jitte, if you're running a Stoneforge package. Countertop lock can slow them down until they draw an Abrupt Decay. Goblins is tougher.
Just my $.02 (Have not ever lost to elves with Miracles):
Board in Meddling Mage for their answers to Counterbalance, stick counterbalance. Then wrath them or setup Energy Field or Moat. The combo isn't fast enough to be that scary and they are pretty bad at the beatdown plan. Never board out any counterspells. Trim wincons that won't come online or be relevant in time (Jace / Entreat)
I wouldn't board out those wincons (esp if you're not playing RiP/Helm or SFM). Everything you described above will lock the game down, but it won't win it. While they're locked down, a Jace or an EOT Entreat can close the game out.
I believe that you believe that you cant attach an aura to w/e your opponent puts with S&T.
I guess I need to further clarify that my belief is correct. You cannot do it.
303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player’s control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn’t specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant ability and any other applicable effects.
Since Emrakul/Griselbrand/Sneak Attack are not on the battlefield as Faith's Fetters is entering the battlefield (they are entering the battlefield simultaneously), they are not legal objects to select.
(If an Emrakul were already on the battlefield, however, you could attach it to him, since it's not a spell.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Im sort of in the "board by intuition" school, I think you generally get a handle on the deck, and you quickly realize which cards do close to nothing in a matchup. Once youre comfortable with the deck youll have a pretty good idea of what to take out. also legacy decks in general have fairly linear game plans so its pretty common to have dead cards to take out in each match. With binek's sideboard:
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Counterspell
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Energy Field
1 Humility
1 Disenchant
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Red Elemental Blast
swords comes in vs aggro. fine vs reanimator and its ok vs tinfins.
tutor comes in when any of your enchantments can end the game.
cards that autowin can be rest in peace, blood moon, and sometimes you desperately want a turn 2 counterbalance, maybe energy field. its just super match dependent.
the extra counter is good for control mirrors. can be fine vs combo too.
explosives is good vs aggro and also good vs chalice decks, which can be a pain to play against when they turn 1 chalice for 1.
bridge is for show and tell. fine vs tinfins as well, but a bit slow.
canonist is for storm, high tide, etc. it will for sure be abrupt decayed.
energy field is mostly just good for burn. most decks are probably already boarding in abrupt decay vs you so dont expect too much from this card vs. decks that can cast it.
humility is for show and tell. its really only good if you let them resolve show and tell though, not something you want to just jam on turn4 and pass as they will just bounce it.
giest - im not really wild about it but apparently its to put a clock on combo. i prefer clique for that.
clique - i think clique is great vs combo as it puts a clock and disrupts a bit. can be great in response to a show and tell, but still with some risk obviously.
reb - the real reason to splash red. great vs show, tide or any deck with jace.
think thats roughly the idea. im sure im forgetting a few things.
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
Planeswalkers:
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Instants and Sorceries:
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
Enchantments:
1 Blood Moon
2 Counterbalance
1 Detention Sphere
3 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands:
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
1 Karakas
4 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Counterbalance
1 Counterspell
1 Detention Sphere
1 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Humility
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Spell Pierce
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Vendilion Clique
I modified Jack Colwell's list from SCG: Las Vegas with some preference card choices. I didn't really like Elspeth, Knight-Errant as I felt she was not necessary as a win-condition, plus the singleton Ponder from his list didn't do it for me, so I cut those 2 to make room for 2 Spell Pierces in the main. I also replaced 1 Island for a Volcanic Island as I found that I didn't have enough red mana when I wanted it, especially post-board when I bring in REB's and the Engineered Explosives. I also went with 3 Misty Rainforests because I didn't have the extra Scalding Tarns, but I honestly never missed them.
Below is a short recap of yesterday's matchups, based from memory (I should really start taking down more notes when I play in Tournaments):
Round 1: Belcher - Won 2-1
Game 1, I mulliganed into a hand with 1 FoW and no blue cards to pitch to it, plus 4 lands and a Top, not knowing I was facing Belcher. He cast Gitaxian Probe on me, seeing I had no way to stop him, and he cast Empty the Warrens for 10 goblins. I lost quickly afterwards.
Game 2, I had FoW and Spell Pierce in my opening hand, and I was able to stop his first attempt, with CB+Top coming down later to lock the game, and Helm + RIP to win the game.
Game 3, I opened with 2 FoW's, a CB, a Spell Pierce and 3 lands. I stopped a Turn 1 Belcher dead in its tracks, and was able to get Helm + RIP later on to seal the deal.
Round 2: All Spells - Won 2-0
Game 1, I Spell Pierced a Cabal Ritual with only 1 floating mana remaining, and he was forced to pass the turn. RIP went down later on, and he was forced to scoop.
Game 2 played out similarly, with RIP locking him out of his win-con and Helm finished a few turns later.
Round 3: Omnishow - Lost 0-2
Game 1, he spent his first 2 turns sculpting his hand. A turn 3 Show and Tell into Omniscience with 1 FoW and 1 Misdirection backup made short work of the match.
Game 2, I was able to answer his first Show and Tell with a Detention Sphere, but I did not draw into any answers for his 2nd Show and Tell into Omniscience.
Round 4: Mono-Black Control - Won 2-0
Game 1, Met some early game disruption in the form of Inquisition of Kozilek and Sinkhole. A Phyrexian Arena later made its way to his side. Luckily, he kept drawing into creature-removal, and I was able to assemble lands for the RIP + Helm combo finish.
Game 2, he mulliganed to 4 cards. Again, early disruption in the form of discard. I was able to land SDT + CB early on, and I was able to stop 2 Hymn to Tourachs. I assembled RIP + Helm and finished a few turns later.
Round 5: Manaless Dredge - Won 2-0
I've already seen my next opponent in the other tables during the early rounds, so I knew what to expect. I won the die roll and opted to Draw, giving myself a virtual Time-walk.
Game 1, I drew into 3 Swords to Plowshares and kept exiling his creatures to avoid having fodder for Dread Return and Bridge for Below. I eventually landed a Rest in Peace and was able to draw into Helm a few turns later.
Game 2, I played 2 Rest in Peace just to ensure that it survives removal. I was luckily able to blind-flip a 1-cost spell through Counterbalance to counter his first Nature's Claim. He had a second one, but with 2 RIP's in play, he was still deadlocked. I was able to tutor for the Helm the following turn and seal the deal.
Round 6: Combo Elves - Won 2-0
Game 1, I was able to hit an early Terminus on a board containing a Dryad Arbor, Heritage Druid and Wirewood Symbiote, leaving him with 1 land. A CB+Top locked the board position, while Vendilion Clique slowly whittled his life to 0.
Game 2, and early CB+Top was able to control his field. He was able to resolve a Natural Order for Progenitus, but a timely Terminus took care of the hydra before it could do some damage. RIP + Helm a few turns later won the game for me.
Round 7: RUG Delver - Won 2-0
My opponent decided to drop out of the tournament due to fatigue and hunger, so he gave the round to me.
Standing after 7 Rounds: 2nd Place
Quarterfinals: Sneak Show - Won 2-0
I was paired against a teammate, so we decided to play only one game for all the marbles, as it didn't really matter to us which one of us moves on to the Top 4. I was able to stop his Sneak Attack with CB by flipping a JTMS off the top of my Library. His Show and Tell 2 turns after met with no resistance, as I already played RIP a turn before, and had Helm in hand, with enough mana open to activate it on the same turn. He was my ride home, and for the remainder of the tournament, he was making jokes about having to find my own way home. Hahaha!
We ended up splitting Top 4, and I went home with a Revised Tundra and some cash for my efforts.
All in all, it was a great choice for our local meta, and I would not think twice about using this deck in the next major event.
Props to the TO for a well-run event, and to my opponents as well for being such great sports!
Been playing U/W control since landstill was the premiere control deck. Moved to a stoneblade deck when SFM was released, then moved to the more aggressive tezzeret control + thopters, then moved to miracles when they were released. Went back to thopterbalance, and then RIP was spoiled, and E-tutors started to get added to miracles, so I'm basically playing a mesh of the two because they're so similar.
I've been playing a UWr version literally forever, thopterbalance lists generally all played UWbr for the EE colors and blood moon. I basically cut the sword of the meek + foundry in place of RIP + Helm, cut the academy ruins + EE in favor of terminus, and wrapped it up!
Anyways, here's my current list:
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
Planeswalkers:3
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Instants and Sorceries:22
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Spell Pierce
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Force of Will
1 Council's Judgement
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
3 Counterbalance
Artifacts: 4
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands:23
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Pithing Needle
1 Blood Moon
2 Flusterstorm
2 Rest in Peace
1 Entreat the Angels
2 Wear/Tear
2 Supreme Verdict
My sideboard needs updating, it's been a while. (List updated 8/19/13)
What's the general consensus on entreat the angels count? 1? 2?
I maindeck the humility and moat because old habits die hard from all the days playing thopterbalance, I love to have both of them there as E-tutor targets. I might cut the moat to the board, and leave the humility main, but we'll see.
How important is that single VClique? I had this list made before that SCG list, and now I see a lot of people running it.
EDIT: -Moat - Humility +1 Terminus + 1 Supreme Verdict.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
Yeah, true.
I just have always loved the Humility/Moat lock, ever since I played monowhite stax. I could possibly do the following:
-1 Moat
-1 Humlity
+1 Clique
+1 Terminus
But then I'd look like every other miracles deck out there.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
Primarily for AEther Vial, which is one way Goblins can ignore UW's strategy of controlling the stack. Hitting Wasteland also helps in some tight spots, but that's less of a concern than eliminating a huge source of mana advantage.
It's not ideal, but it's better than other options in Joe's deck.
Engineered Explosives is rather good against Vial decks primarily because it can answer Vial before it gets out of hand - say on Turn 2.
5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
Check out my Legacy stream
1: I have a TON of dead cards to board out.
2: It is a fairly useful card in the matchup. If they drop a first turn Aether Vial, I am very happy to take it away from them. If not, or assuming I draw it later in the game, I use it to protect my mana. I would prefer to stop Wasteland since Rishadan Port uses up a lot of their mana, but that has never actually happened. Usually I find it somewhere in the middle of a game and they have already Wasted once and are using a Port to lock me down each turn. Having access to four mana total as well as double white is pretty important, and Needle on Port can help me achieve that.
If I for some reason I had two in the board, I would happily bring in both of them.
I guess if you're answering boarding questions, curious about the blue blasts and why they're worth the slots to you.
Also, ive been playing a version very similar to yours since I was usually pretty bummed to have dead cards with helm combo in a lot of matches. I tried out the filter lands as well, but I felt like I would flood out or get top locked too much without the extra shuffle effects. Do you still run into choke? Have you experimented with dropping a land or two and working in something like ponder or portent?
Nice work btw. always enjoy watching your matches.
Blue blasts are in the deck because they are useful against burn, but better against the field than sphere of law.
Makes sense. Dont often see burn here in my local meta, so sorta easy to forget about it.
Thank you for the responses and i look forward to reading your next article.
Prolly like most Miracle players I tried Rip/Helm, but the fact multiple Rip draws suck and Helm does nothing but combo with Rip, it quickly became frustrating to draw multiple Rips or Helm of I had no Rip in play. I don't think the combo is bad, but it consumes slots that are better devoted to actual control and card advantage.
http://blog.mtgdeals.com/oarsman/scg-seattle-legacy-top-8/
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
One match up that I seem to be really struggling with is the elves match up. It seems like it should be a real easy match up with terminus to answer the elves and counterspell to stop key combo pieces.
However, I have found that I often time just run out of answers for them and can't get anything to lock them down. All the while, random 1/1 and 2/2 beat downs do add up.
Elves rebuild their hand incredibly fast with recurring visionaries, regal force, and glimpse of nature. They can just combo off and win, and all the while you are under an increasing clock with just 1/1 and 2/2 beat downs.
So, what's the key to playing against elves? what do I target with my swords and what should be my primary objective when playing against elves?
Been playing Miracles for about 4-5 month now as my primary deck. I really like the fact that it truly is a deck that has answers to about everything.
Elves is one match up where I'm still having a lot of trouble understanding the decision path.
Heritage druid is usually always protected by a symbiote, but even the games where I do remove the heritage druid, gaea's cradle gives them plenty of mana to GSZ or natural order out something scary.
I tried going for early lock via counterbalance/top or RIP/Energy field, but that's usually met with GSZ for harmonic sliver or abrupt decay followed up either glimpse or natural order.
Terminus is usually great when gaddock teeg is not in play, but I'm really not sure on when to fire it off. Firing it too early usually result in them just playing out more elves, firing it off too late usually means they've already glimpsed, GSZ or Natural ordered for regal force and then I'm so behind on cards that it doesn't seem to do anything either.
Finally, even games where I've hit all of my removal, terminus and lock piece, I'm usually still left staring down a DRS or some elvish visionaries that's beating me down while I try to dig for more removal, which in turn gives them more draw steps to pull abrupty decay, GSZ, or some other way they have to break the lock.
What i also try to do is board in moat / humility lock against them. Both on their own will really put a hinder on their plans. Humility will stop them from combing off and force them to go the aggro route which we are vastly superior against. Moat will force them to go the GSZ or sliver route which will buy us a lot more time to sit back and collect cards we need.
my boarding strategy:
+2 path to exile
+1 moat
+1 humility
+1 engineered explosives
-1 jace
-1 counterbalance
-2 entreat the angels
-clique
There are really only 2 spells that are auto-counters - Glimpse of Nature and Natural Order (in the case of the Craterhoof Build). If you have extra counterspells or a Counterbalance lock in place, try to stop them from resolving GSZ and Crop Rotation as well.
Also, you will need to understand their board state and determine if they have all the conditions to setup a combo. For example:
Remember that their combo ends in 1 of 3 ways: A)They Glimpse and draw a bunch of cards and basically play their whole deck, B)They unload what they can from hand, and finish with a Natural Order; C)They unload their hand without Glimpse or NO, but end up with a lot of creatures in play. Of the 3 scenarios, C) is the easiest to answer, as 1 Terminus will ruin their day. For scenarios A) and B), having a timely counterspell will stop it from happening, effectively turning them to scenario C).
Of course, hitting a Counterbalance lock early enough will shift the game in your favor.
Post-board, you can add additional board-wipe effects and counterspells (don't board out FoW - they are an unfair deck disguised as Tribal Aggro). One good tech against them as well is Ethersworn Canonist, it puts a monkey wrench in their gameplan. Watch out for Abrupt Decay if you see they play black.
All in all, Miracles are favored against Elves. All it takes is an understanding on how Elves works, and you will do fine.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I was probably siding out too many counterspells against them. But what I'll probably do is pick up the elves deck and play it for a while. Not a fan of the deck, but there's no better way to learn how to defeat a deck than play the deck myself.
Board in Meddling Mage for their answers to Counterbalance, stick counterbalance. Then wrath them or setup Energy Field or Moat. The combo isn't fast enough to be that scary and they are pretty bad at the beatdown plan. Never board out any counterspells. Trim wincons that won't come online or be relevant in time (Jace / Entreat)
Elves is typically pretty fragile to a well-timed Terminus. Also Jitte, if you're running a Stoneforge package. Countertop lock can slow them down until they draw an Abrupt Decay. Goblins is tougher.
Humility helps all of the above.
I wouldn't board out those wincons (esp if you're not playing RiP/Helm or SFM). Everything you described above will lock the game down, but it won't win it. While they're locked down, a Jace or an EOT Entreat can close the game out.
I guess I need to further clarify that my belief is correct. You cannot do it.
Since Emrakul/Griselbrand/Sneak Attack are not on the battlefield as Faith's Fetters is entering the battlefield (they are entering the battlefield simultaneously), they are not legal objects to select.
(If an Emrakul were already on the battlefield, however, you could attach it to him, since it's not a spell.)