After playing the hell out of this deck last night against pretty much everything I could have thrown at it, I pretty much agree with all of your suggestions. Thanks for the input.
I guess I kind of assumed the 4th top was irrelevant, but as mentioned above...when i didn't see one I lost 100% of the time. So 4th top added.
I dont know what your meta is like, But I'd suggest 1-2 copies of Misdirection mainboard. It really helps versus decks packing abrupt decay/thoughtseize/hymn/reach. Like, it REALLY helps. Also, a single Venser Shaper Savant helps versus Sneak/Show and has synergy with Karakas shennanigans of course so does Vendilion Clique. Energy Field is kinda meh overall. Its a great lock versus aggr decks game one like Elves or something or Goblins and occasionally Rug I guess. I am not much for it in a highly compettitive metagame. If you want to just beat creatures, Terminus/Supreme Verdict and Humility seem much stronger. Plus Humility can't be abrupt decayed.............
Moat just isnt good enough in general. I could see playing a single copy to stop Elves/Goblins etc but overall Id rather have Humility as a main way to stop creature based decks alongside Terminus. Plus, Humility beats Emrakul/Griselbrand, and thats really important.
Goin to a local legacy tournament this weekend. This is the list im plannin on takin as of now. Its crazy that the rip/helm combo has become the standard. I remember when it first got mentioned everyone said it was too clunky.
I liked it from the start. Legacy has enough graveyard interaction/abuse that RIP is good enough to be played in the main, and Helm gives you a fast way to win when you need it. By far he deck's biggest problem is the time limit on matches, so having a way to end games quickly is very valuable.
Moat is a very powerful card. That being said No, i do not play it in the main. I find there are a lot of decks when it will be -1 card. If you look at the current top decks:
Reanimator/Show and Tell
Rug/Bug
Mirror
Stoneblade
In all of these matchups you want it in maybe against bug depending on the build. Other than that it will do less than nothing.
If your local meta is vastly different than this than yes, moat may just be the card you want in the main. If that is Zoo, Merfolk, Goblins, Maverick, Deadguy(depending), Death & taxes, Jund
How important is that singleton Venser? I'm having trouble acquiring one for my semi-budget deck, along with a Volcanic Island which I'm replacing with a Plateau. I'm planning on just going with a second Vendilion Clique...
Venser is good, but not necessary.
The biggest reason for playing him is as a trump against Show and Tell. Regardless of what they put into play Venser answers it, and he has some good utility in a variety of other situations. Venser + Karakas or Riptide Laboratory can be a beating if you get it going.
Will you miss it? Maybe, but by no means do you need him.
OK, got a question: I'm really interested in this deck, and want to play it in my LGS Saturday tournament. Here's the catch: 1) Counterbalance/Locks are not allowed, and 2) the Helm Combo (or any one-shot kill) is not allowed. How should I approach the deck under those rules?
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Riposa, riposa in pace
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affinché la tua luce non conosca ombra
OK, got a question: I'm really interested in this deck, and want to play it in my LGS Saturday tournament. Here's the catch: 1) Counterbalance/Locks are not allowed, and 2) the Helm Combo (or any one-shot kill) is not allowed. How should I approach the deck under those rules?
My advice would be to avoid that LGS's tournaments, because they sound like crap and why reward them for that? If they can't support a real Legacy event, they can promote Standard or Modern.
OK, got a question: I'm really interested in this deck, and want to play it in my LGS Saturday tournament. Here's the catch: 1) Counterbalance/Locks are not allowed, and 2) the Helm Combo (or any one-shot kill) is not allowed. How should I approach the deck under those rules?
The best bet here is a Miracle-Blade variant. Probably something like (super rough list):
OK, got a question: I'm really interested in this deck, and want to play it in my LGS Saturday tournament. Here's the catch: 1) Counterbalance/Locks are not allowed, and 2) the Helm Combo (or any one-shot kill) is not allowed. How should I approach the deck under those rules?
Yeah this set of rules is pretty bad. But depending on interpretation it might not exclude Storm, and it almost certainly doesn't exclude Show and Tell, so it's not like combo is nonexistent.
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OK, got a question: I'm really interested in this deck, and want to play it in my LGS Saturday tournament. Here's the catch: 1) Counterbalance/Locks are not allowed, and 2) the Helm Combo (or any one-shot kill) is not allowed. How should I approach the deck under those rules?
Is it an Edh tournament? Those two things that aren't allowed are IMO the two reasons to play this deck. Seems they want to promote creature battles.....play GW maverick with mother of runes.
It's pretty much a "casual" tournament (doesn't stop people from playing Legacy RUG, Legacy Goblins, Punishing Jund, etc.). Control Decks are almost nonexistent, and anything that smells of combo gets eyed with suspicion.
I was hoping to play this because 1) It looks fun as hell, and 2) I'm hoping to bring control back into this meta after 3 weeks of nothing but RDW/Big Dumb Green/ *INSERT RANDOM AGGRO DECK HERE*.
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Pretty nice list. IT looks a lot more refined than the one from SCG this following weekend. The board looks all over the place but its nice none the less.
He's there primarily to bring in against decks where you need to provide a clock against them.
For instance, you can't just sit there and play draw-go against High Tide because that's exactly what they want. Jamming a Geist and bashing in for 6 a turn puts them under a four turn clock. Potentially three turn clock with a couple fetchlands on their part.
He's there primarily to bring in against decks where you need to provide a clock against them.
For instance, you can't just sit there and play draw-go against High Tide because that's exactly what they want. Jamming a Geist and bashing in for 6 a turn puts them under a four turn clock. Potentially three turn clock with a couple fetchlands on their part.
I suppose that makes sense. Ive generally had cliques for the same reason as it feels safer to play at instant speed and provides a little disruption as well. Would be pretty nervous jamming a turn 3 giest vs high tide. But I guess I should just try it out.
I guess I kind of assumed the 4th top was irrelevant, but as mentioned above...when i didn't see one I lost 100% of the time. So 4th top added.
BUGShardless SultaiBUG
Modern
URSplinter TwinUR
BWGAbzan MidrangeBWG
Standard
URWJeskai TokensURW
Is this only because of cost? I think its a serious trump card.
Thoughts?
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Karakas
2 Mystic Gate
2 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
// Creatures
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
// Spells
1 Blood Moon
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
1 Counterspell
1 Detention Sphere
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Force of Will
1 Helm of Obedience
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Ponder
2 Rest in Peace
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Spell Pierce
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Terminus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Flusterstorm
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Humility
1 Misdirection
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Rest in Peace
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vendilion Clique
Reanimator/Show and Tell
Rug/Bug
Mirror
Stoneblade
In all of these matchups you want it in maybe against bug depending on the build. Other than that it will do less than nothing.
If your local meta is vastly different than this than yes, moat may just be the card you want in the main. If that is Zoo, Merfolk, Goblins, Maverick, Deadguy(depending), Death & taxes, Jund
The biggest reason for playing him is as a trump against Show and Tell. Regardless of what they put into play Venser answers it, and he has some good utility in a variety of other situations. Venser + Karakas or Riptide Laboratory can be a beating if you get it going.
Will you miss it? Maybe, but by no means do you need him.
Nel racconto che ho scritto, puoi volare in libertà
Ecco il mio ultimo incantesimo
affinché la tua luce non conosca ombra
Riposa in pace, Kitzu...
My advice would be to avoid that LGS's tournaments, because they sound like crap and why reward them for that? If they can't support a real Legacy event, they can promote Standard or Modern.
Leave the house rules to EDH and casual games.
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StaffThe best bet here is a Miracle-Blade variant. Probably something like (super rough list):
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn (or other blue fetch)
1 Karakas
2 Mishra's Factory
3 Island
2 Plains
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalkers (4)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
Artifacts and Enchantments (7)
1 Detention Sphere
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
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There will be no combo decks then. Play Jund.
But really, find a better place to play.
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StaffYeah this set of rules is pretty bad. But depending on interpretation it might not exclude Storm, and it almost certainly doesn't exclude Show and Tell, so it's not like combo is nonexistent.
Currently Playing:
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Nel racconto che ho scritto, puoi volare in libertà
Ecco il mio ultimo incantesimo
affinché la tua luce non conosca ombra
Riposa in pace, Kitzu...
That seems terrible. Arbitrary rules set in plase, like Joe said find a better place to play.
Control and Storm are forbidden, but Belcher is allowed? Take that deck and enjoy your victory.
Is it an Edh tournament? Those two things that aren't allowed are IMO the two reasons to play this deck. Seems they want to promote creature battles.....play GW maverick with mother of runes.
I was hoping to play this because 1) It looks fun as hell, and 2) I'm hoping to bring control back into this meta after 3 weeks of nothing but RDW/Big Dumb Green/ *INSERT RANDOM AGGRO DECK HERE*.
Nel racconto che ho scritto, puoi volare in libertà
Ecco il mio ultimo incantesimo
affinché la tua luce non conosca ombra
Riposa in pace, Kitzu...
For instance, you can't just sit there and play draw-go against High Tide because that's exactly what they want. Jamming a Geist and bashing in for 6 a turn puts them under a four turn clock. Potentially three turn clock with a couple fetchlands on their part.
I suppose that makes sense. Ive generally had cliques for the same reason as it feels safer to play at instant speed and provides a little disruption as well. Would be pretty nervous jamming a turn 3 giest vs high tide. But I guess I should just try it out.
Shocks are too bad in this list, depending on the match up. I recommend running only 3 shocks (2 fountain, 1 vents) and running another basic.
This list is pretty awesome, I ran it for a while. you'll enjoy it.