I can't seem to find much help on the budget forum so I was wondering if you guys could help me. It's supposed to be 'budget' but the deck still costs quite a lot (when compared to budget decks).
Copied from my original thread in budget:
I want to make a B/W Stoneblade deck and was wondering how to do so. The maximum I'm willing to spend on each card is around $20-ish bucks. The thing is, I don't mind shelling out $15+ for one card (Batterskull, Umezawa's Jitte, etc.) but when it comes to playsets (Dark Confidant @ $40 each) I can't shell out that kind of money. This is also the reason why I cannot run Scrubland.
My goal is to make this deck more competitive than my Monoblack Control deck but not as expensive as the actual StoneBlade deck.
I'm kind of iffy on spending money for Chrome Mox. Could I live without them? I don't have any yet, so if I were to get three it would cost me about $60. I only have 2 in the deck list so that I can comfort myself and tell myself that I'm saving money. I am the same way with Cabal Therapy. Is it worth spending the $7/card for a couple? I see that Stoneblade decks run it but I feel that the money could be better used in other parts of the deck (mostly because I probably put gaping holes in the Stoneblade strategy).
Cards that I could run but aren't in the deck list: Grim Lavamancer (Already have a playset),Gerrard's Verdict, Oblivion Ring (Similar to Vindicate except it can't hit lands and is an enchantment). I'm sure there are others, but I'm not quite sure what.
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Basically what I did was try to replicate StoneBlade in hopefully a more aggressive form. Most creatures other than Stoneforge Mystic destroy a creature or card, or have evasion. Mirran Crusader is mainboarded because he is a great creature to equip a Sword or Jitte to. Vampire Nighthawk is another good advocate to carry Jitte or a Sword because he has evasion. Tidehollow Sculler is there to remove the possibility of any early game plays by the opponent. Gatekeeper of Malakir provides efficient removal and a 2/2 body to put equipment on. Squadron Hawk is another great advocate for equipment and getting one will only get me two more in my hand. Phyrexian Arena takes place of Dark Confidant. The only positive side that I can provide is that I don't lose as much life. I cut down to 3 Hymn to Tourach because I thought the 2 black mana would be too intensive for this deck. I'm not sure about Gatekeeper of Malakir either, I feel like paying the kicker cost for him could be a problem.
What do you guys think about my creature base? Now that I think about it, it seems like a lot because Sword of Body and Mind will be producing 2/2 beasts and Bitterblossom will be producing 1/1 flying faeries.
Should I be running more than 2 Chrome Mox? I feel like people are already going to recommend that I run 3 or maybe even 4 of them because of my lack of Scrubland
Would my 'budget' deck be more effective as B/W/r? I already have 4 Grim Lavamancers. Would my deck's effectiveness be greatly improved by running them? If so, it is probably because I butchered B/W StoneBlade. If you believe B/W/r is the way to go, how would I go about doing so without destroying my wallet?
Any sort of advise or suggestion is greatly appreciated. I would appreciate your advice even more if you provided supporting arguments to your suggestions to help me understand why I need to change the deck. The deck I listed here is a merely a rough draft and has not been really tested in any way.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
@andrewgk, run 1 godless shrine or 1 scrubland. that way you can fetch it with a marsh flats if you really need both colors.(so you can swords to plowshare on turn one and hymn on turn two for example)
if you are going to run Squadron Hawk then run all 4.
since you've got a pretty high creature count, you may want to test aether vial.
It doesn't look half bad. Not competitive legacy materiel, but definitely a powerful deck.
I would drop the Hawks, you have plenty of creatures as is. You only have 9 discard spells... I would throw in a playset of Thoughtseize over the Hawks and a Nighthawk.
I would definitely second the above, if you can afford a single Shrine or Scrublands, it would make your deck much better.
I made some changes to the deck and ended up swapping out the 3 Squadron Hawks for 2 Aether Vial and 1 more Mirran Crusader. I also took out 1 Plains and added 1 Godless Shrine. Once I get a job, I will probably start collecting a play set of Scrublands but for now I will stick with 1 Godless Shrine. I will probably wait a bit to get one though because I'm guessing that all the modern hype will die down by the time Innistrad rolls around.
Between Mirran Crusader and Vampire Nighthawk, which should I run more of? I can run 4/3 in either combination. I'm thinking Mirran Crusader is the better choice because Umezawa's Jitte basically quadruples his power and with a sword equipped, he can sometimes sneak damage over to activate the sword's ability.
@RaggedJoe: Do you think this updated list is alright, or should I find more room for discard spells? I really don't want to spend money on Thoughtsieze, but if I have to find space I will probably put in more Inquisition of Kozilek. What about Despise? Or is Duress a better choice?
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
How about dropping 2 Tidehollow Sculler for discard spells? 1 More hymn to tourach and 1 more inquisition of kozilek? I'm guessing in regular Stoneblade, it is used as a pseudo-discard creature as well as a candidate to carry equipment. Since my list is already pretty creature heavy, should I drop him?
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Huh, I must have missed your Hymns the first time around. Run 4. They are awesome. I find the discard to be a real power tool in this deck, so my main issue is with simply the # you have. Playing only 9 is meh to me. A recent list placed with 9, but I really think more is better, especially in budget legacy, as decks are generally less consistent/easier to disrupt. I would recommend IoK if you don't want Thoughtseize. Assuming your playing vs other budget decks, it will basically be a non-issue, as the main things I grab over 3 CMC are FoW, NO, JTMS, and Batterskull.
What is your meta like? In a vacuum, Crusader>Nighthawk IMO because his doublestrike is just insane with any equipment. Don't forget he double-triggers swords and puts 4 counters on Jitte. I have him sb myself. Why do you want to play creature heavy though?
Huh, I must have missed your Hymns the first time around. Run 4. They are awesome. I find the discard to be a real power tool in this deck, so my main issue is with simply the # you have. Playing only 9 is meh to me. A recent list placed with 9, but I really think more is better, especially in budget legacy, as decks are generally less consistent/easier to disrupt. I would recommend IoK if you don't want Thoughtseize. Assuming your playing vs other budget decks, it will basically be a non-issue, as the main things I grab over 3 CMC are FoW, NO, JTMS, and Batterskull.
What is your meta like? In a vacuum, Crusader>Nighthawk IMO because his doublestrike is just insane with any equipment. Don't forget he double-triggers swords and puts 4 counters on Jitte. I have him sb myself. Why do you want to play creature heavy though?
Also, a Cabal Therapy or two is worth trying
I understand your love for discarding mostly because I run a Legacy Mono-Black Control deck. Its really fun to play especially when on turn 1 you play Dark Ritual -> Inquisition -> Hymn to Tourach. I did this once at a FNM and the guy forfeitted because I pulled both his only two lands.
Right now I am only running 3 more creatures than Josh Biderman's deck list. Basically I went a little bit more creature heavy because I thought it would make up for my lack of expensive ($) cards i.e. Vindicate, Thoughtseize, etc. If you were running a budget deck like the one I'm trying to construct; how would you go about it? I'm pretty much going off of your primer and the deck lists that you listed so I think any advice that you can provide to help my deck would be great!
My meta isn't very developed, mostly because I play at 'Game Master' which holds unsanctioned Vintage FNMs. They will soon be holding sanctioned tournaments, but for now its pretty casual. Usually 2 boosters are given out to 1st and 1 booster to 2nd and 3rd. Its very close by which is really the main reason why I go there. The next closest Legacy store is a little over an hour away. Probably the top competitive decks in my store right now are Dredge, RDW (mostly consisting of the foil pre-con deck), White Weenie Knights, and Mono-Black Control. My friend plays Weenie Knights and I can beat him about 65% of the time with my MBC list that I posted up above. I just played against dredge for the first time last week; I'm actually pretty new to Magic so I have never actually faced off against such an outland-ish deck (speaking from a casual perspective). Since I lurk a lot, I already knew that I would eventually encounter dredge at some point or another (because its so cheap to build) and thus had some hate in my sideboard. I was carrying Bojuka Bog and Surgical Extraction which wasn't enough... mostly because I rarely ran into the sideboarded cards and, quite frankly, didn't know what to hit with Surgical Extraction. This week I will probably be packing Leyline of the Void so I can get into the finals.
That was probably a little too much information... I just realized I kind of went on a story tangent... but yes. Undeveloped meta.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I played at the SCG open yesterday with a list without Chrome Mox, Dark Ritual, or any other mana accelerants. I could not have been happier cutting them.
I went 7-2, finishing out of the top 16 on breakers as my losses were in rounds 1 and 4 to UW Landstill and Pattern of Rebirth respectively. I beat 2 mirrors (both with Chrome Mox, 1 with Dark Ritual as well), 2 Merfolk, 1 Cat Zoo, 1 UW Stoneblade, and 1 Aggro Loam.
SOBM was a last minute inclusion, I was going to run SOFI or SOWP, but ended up being great. Swinging through Goyfs/Knights with pro-Jace is great! And it gives you more guys to suit up, which was an incredible perk.
Phyrexian Crusader in the board was great and came in 6 out of 9 rounds. He might warrant main deck inclusion if you're not worried about combo.
As far as mana accelerants go, I preferred the smoother mana curve over jumping from 0 to 2. I had 10 turn one plays with 6 discard and 4 STP. I consider that a turn 1 play in the matchups where an opponent is playing a creature on turn 1, as I usually want to swords it immediately barring any chance of running into Daze (Goblin Lackey, Wild Nacatl, Steppe Lynx, Noble Hierarch sometimes).
Ghostly Prison came in against Merfolk and Zoo and absolutely dominated the 2 games I saw it.
Elspeth is my girl and I was very happy moving her to the main. I want to see her in like, every non-combo matchup ever. She helps you get back when you're behind, breaks stalemates like a champ, crushes your opponent when you're ahead, and is the perfect draw if your opponent has an active Jace. One of my opponents (Jeph Foster with UW Stoneblade) said that he thinks Elspeth is better than Jace right now, and Alex Bertoncini said that every legacy deck that can run Elspeth should find a way to run one.
I didn't play against Hive Mind or any Tendrils deck but I think being able to go up to 6 hate bears and 8 T1 discard spells after board puts me in a favorable position in those matchups.
Phyrexian Crusader in the board was great and came in 6 out of 9 rounds. He might warrant main deck inclusion if you're not worried about combo.
Thank you! I have been advocating this for a while on the Dead Guy Ale thread but I don't think I've convinced anyone.
I wrote a long thread on why this would be good, but I think people are still too hung up on mixing both poison and damage. I really didn't think it mattered because our deck is not one to race the opponent, but to gain tempo and grind them to death.
The fact that Phyrexian Crusader is pretty much indestructible from spot removal is huge when we can't pump out relevant creatures much. This is especially true against the zoo match up as they pretty much remove any other creatures we have. Having Phrexian Crusader will make us immune to many aggro based match ups.
If you could elaborate on how he worked in your games, that will be great. Also if you could tell us if mixing poison and damage was ever a downer.
If you're just looking for a well protected threat, try Stillmoon cavalier- clearly not as good against red as the crusader, but hes immune to dismember as well as plow/path, and you don't have to mix damage/poison.
Also being able to fly can come in handy vs things like tombstalker.
I've been running two in the main deck and i love them.
PS I lost to Jeph Foster for a T16 spot in Richmond. He was playing Merfolk and I just couldn't get to a third land till the eighth or ninth turn for the Ghostly Prison that was in my opening hand and died to Mutavault beats
Mixing damage and poison was not really an issue, other than a game against aggro loam when I had my opponent at 10 and abandoned the damage plan because I drew 2 Crusaders.
I don't think Stillmoon Cavalier is very good. Pro-black is okay, but if you want something for Zoo you need something that beats the **** out of Zoo. Phyrexian Crusader does just that.
I playtested a phyrexian crusader vs zoo before, and it was pretty sweet with a jitte on it. however, it still can't block full grown gofys or nacatl.
because of gofy i think mirran crusader is a better choice overall, because he'll help you vs norug, bant, and anything else running gofy
What do you guys think about running Basilisk Collar? With Mirran Crusader and Phyrexian Crusader, you can easily keep a Tarmogoyf at bay. Is it alright to mainboard 4 equipment? Batterskull, Sword of Body and Mind, Umezawa's Jitte, and Basilisk Collar?
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I playtested a phyrexian crusader vs zoo before, and it was pretty sweet with a jitte on it. however, it still can't block full grown gofys or nacatl.
I'm pretty sure the Crusader can block nacatl's without any trouble. Crusader's first strike will resolve first, putting two -1 counters on the nacatle. This should nerf the nacatl down to a 1/1 by the time it hits back. Crusader still alive, nacatle at 1/1. Right?
Mike: That is how it works. Anything that has 3 power when it goes into combat with a crusader, barring first strike/shenanigans, will come out of the first strike combat with 1 power, and then only deal one to crusader.
I'm pretty sure the Crusader can block nacatl's without any trouble. Crusader's first strike will resolve first, putting two -1 counters on the nacatle. This should nerf the nacatl down to a 1/1 by the time it hits back. Crusader still alive, nacatle at 1/1. Right?
Oh, your right, I got that confused in my head when I said that. He has infect and i was just thinking 2/2 first strike. so he can take care of nacatls, but not full grown gofys
Aadz0r: Congrats on your results in your first major tournament! Is 4 Grim the right amount, or do you think you could get away with less to increase you Bitter count?
Gros: Looks pretty solid to me, almost identical to my list in the OP. I have never had much of a problem with UW StoneBlade or Affinity, so if those are your main competition, good deck choice.
Tip: Enclose your deck in [ DECK ] [ /DECK ] tags for easy reading.
On matchups:
Very good (75+) - Merfolk, UW StoneBlade, Maverick
Good (55-75) - Affinity, TES, Belcher, NO RUG, Hulk Rebirth, Gobbos, Combo Elves, Bant
Meh (45-55) - Enchantress (Easy G1, hard g2 if they have Leyline of Sanctity), Hive Mind (see Enchantress)
Bad (35-45) - Stax, Burn, UW Landstill, Dredge
Very Bad (35-) - None
This has been my approximate experience playing vs various decks. Any objections?
Also, I've been thinking about a ET Tutor sb lately. Maybe something like:
I am really liking this deck. Does any one have the list caleb durward played? I think it seems pretty optimal and i want to make a list based off of his. I tried doing a search on this thread but to no avail.
@helix : here is the link to the list, i tried it a little bit and i found that this list get a worst control matchup, because of the importance of casting phyrexian obliterator for concluding the game, bitterblossom is really important in this matchups, i found also that this list has a little weaker manabase 'cause of the necessity of getting out BBBB for obliterator!
link: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=21931
Thanks for the list. Also here it is for any one that wanted it that does not want to click the link.
Ok, I gotta say I really hate this list. If you look at my last post I rated us at 75+ vs Merfolk and UW StoneBlade and 55-75 vs NO RUG and Bant. This list throws away all the cards that give us those good matchups. Bitter is amazing. You don't play 1, you play 3 or 4. It makes just about 0 sense to play FIVE mana accelerants in this deck. 2-3 is where you want to be IMO. With 2 Swamps, hitting Obliterator is going to be hard. No Elspeth and Batterskull on the sb both make me cringe.
The deck has changed a bunch since that list was posted 3 months ago. Here's a synopsis:
1) 1 Batterskull in the main always. I play a second in the board for Fish, Zoo, Bant, Maverick, etc. Decks where you want it and decks that have Pridemages.
2) Chrome Mox or Dark Ritual but usually not both. 5 is a lot of accelerants. I don't play either.
3) Bitterblossom is good as a 2+of main.
4) Sword of Body and Mind is as good or better than Fire and Ice now.
I agree with you both, except I think 2 Bitter is too few. 3 is better and 4 is best IMO. It really is amazing vs UW StoneBlade (Stoping Cliqe beatdown and hitting JTMS), and is strong vs Fish and NO RUG too
The Card disadvantage is really not that big an issue in a deck packed with bob/missy/hymn- you will make up for it.
Copied from my original thread in budget:
I want to make a B/W Stoneblade deck and was wondering how to do so. The maximum I'm willing to spend on each card is around $20-ish bucks. The thing is, I don't mind shelling out $15+ for one card (Batterskull, Umezawa's Jitte, etc.) but when it comes to playsets (Dark Confidant @ $40 each) I can't shell out that kind of money. This is also the reason why I cannot run Scrubland.
My goal is to make this deck more competitive than my Monoblack Control deck but not as expensive as the actual StoneBlade deck.
MBC:
18 Swamp
Spells:
3 Dark Ritual
4 The Rack
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Go for the Throat
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Nyxathid
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
I threw a quick deck list together:
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
1 Godless Shrine
6 Swamps
4 Tainted Field
2 Chrome Mox
2 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Bitterblossom
2 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Vampire Nighthawk
Planeswalker:
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Sideboard: Phyrexian Revoker for sure.
Cards that I will not shell out money for:
Wasteland, Vindicate, Thoughtseize, More Fetches
I'm kind of iffy on spending money for Chrome Mox. Could I live without them? I don't have any yet, so if I were to get three it would cost me about $60. I only have 2 in the deck list so that I can comfort myself and tell myself that I'm saving money. I am the same way with Cabal Therapy. Is it worth spending the $7/card for a couple? I see that Stoneblade decks run it but I feel that the money could be better used in other parts of the deck (mostly because I probably put gaping holes in the Stoneblade strategy).
Cards that I could run but aren't in the deck list:
Grim Lavamancer (Already have a playset),Gerrard's Verdict, Oblivion Ring (Similar to Vindicate except it can't hit lands and is an enchantment). I'm sure there are others, but I'm not quite sure what.
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Basically what I did was try to replicate StoneBlade in hopefully a more aggressive form. Most creatures other than Stoneforge Mystic destroy a creature or card, or have evasion. Mirran Crusader is mainboarded because he is a great creature to equip a Sword or Jitte to. Vampire Nighthawk is another good advocate to carry Jitte or a Sword because he has evasion. Tidehollow Sculler is there to remove the possibility of any early game plays by the opponent. Gatekeeper of Malakir provides efficient removal and a 2/2 body to put equipment on. Squadron Hawk is another great advocate for equipment and getting one will only get me two more in my hand. Phyrexian Arena takes place of Dark Confidant. The only positive side that I can provide is that I don't lose as much life. I cut down to 3 Hymn to Tourach because I thought the 2 black mana would be too intensive for this deck. I'm not sure about Gatekeeper of Malakir either, I feel like paying the kicker cost for him could be a problem.
What do you guys think about my creature base? Now that I think about it, it seems like a lot because Sword of Body and Mind will be producing 2/2 beasts and Bitterblossom will be producing 1/1 flying faeries.
Should I be running more than 2 Chrome Mox? I feel like people are already going to recommend that I run 3 or maybe even 4 of them because of my lack of Scrubland
Would my 'budget' deck be more effective as B/W/r? I already have 4 Grim Lavamancers. Would my deck's effectiveness be greatly improved by running them? If so, it is probably because I butchered B/W StoneBlade. If you believe B/W/r is the way to go, how would I go about doing so without destroying my wallet?
Any sort of advise or suggestion is greatly appreciated. I would appreciate your advice even more if you provided supporting arguments to your suggestions to help me understand why I need to change the deck. The deck I listed here is a merely a rough draft and has not been really tested in any way.
if you are going to run Squadron Hawk then run all 4.
since you've got a pretty high creature count, you may want to test aether vial.
Legacy:
UGRB 4 color cascade
EDH/Commander:
BWG Teneb, the Harvester
I would drop the Hawks, you have plenty of creatures as is. You only have 9 discard spells... I would throw in a playset of Thoughtseize over the Hawks and a Nighthawk.
I would definitely second the above, if you can afford a single Shrine or Scrublands, it would make your deck much better.
Besides that, you list looks pretty good.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Between Mirran Crusader and Vampire Nighthawk, which should I run more of? I can run 4/3 in either combination. I'm thinking Mirran Crusader is the better choice because Umezawa's Jitte basically quadruples his power and with a sword equipped, he can sometimes sneak damage over to activate the sword's ability.
@RaggedJoe: Do you think this updated list is alright, or should I find more room for discard spells? I really don't want to spend money on Thoughtsieze, but if I have to find space I will probably put in more Inquisition of Kozilek. What about Despise? Or is Duress a better choice?
If you're too lazy to scroll up to my post:
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
1 Godless Shrine
6 Swamps
4 Tainted Field
2 Chrome Mox
2 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Bitterblossom
2 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Vampire Nighthawk
Planeswalker:
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Hey look I have a page of alters!
Level 1 Judge!
Modern
- Merfolk UR
Legacy
- Stoneblade BW
EDH
- BUOona, Queen of the FaeBU
- BRWKaalia, the VastWRB
- WURZedruuRUW
Sale Thread!
CHARGIN' MAH TRADE THREAD
What is your meta like? In a vacuum, Crusader>Nighthawk IMO because his doublestrike is just insane with any equipment. Don't forget he double-triggers swords and puts 4 counters on Jitte. I have him sb myself. Why do you want to play creature heavy though?
Also, a Cabal Therapy or two is worth trying
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
I understand your love for discarding mostly because I run a Legacy Mono-Black Control deck. Its really fun to play especially when on turn 1 you play Dark Ritual -> Inquisition -> Hymn to Tourach. I did this once at a FNM and the guy forfeitted because I pulled both his only two lands.
Right now I am only running 3 more creatures than Josh Biderman's deck list. Basically I went a little bit more creature heavy because I thought it would make up for my lack of expensive ($) cards i.e. Vindicate, Thoughtseize, etc. If you were running a budget deck like the one I'm trying to construct; how would you go about it? I'm pretty much going off of your primer and the deck lists that you listed so I think any advice that you can provide to help my deck would be great!
My meta isn't very developed, mostly because I play at 'Game Master' which holds unsanctioned Vintage FNMs. They will soon be holding sanctioned tournaments, but for now its pretty casual. Usually 2 boosters are given out to 1st and 1 booster to 2nd and 3rd. Its very close by which is really the main reason why I go there. The next closest Legacy store is a little over an hour away. Probably the top competitive decks in my store right now are Dredge, RDW (mostly consisting of the foil pre-con deck), White Weenie Knights, and Mono-Black Control. My friend plays Weenie Knights and I can beat him about 65% of the time with my MBC list that I posted up above. I just played against dredge for the first time last week; I'm actually pretty new to Magic so I have never actually faced off against such an outland-ish deck (speaking from a casual perspective). Since I lurk a lot, I already knew that I would eventually encounter dredge at some point or another (because its so cheap to build) and thus had some hate in my sideboard. I was carrying Bojuka Bog and Surgical Extraction which wasn't enough... mostly because I rarely ran into the sideboarded cards and, quite frankly, didn't know what to hit with Surgical Extraction. This week I will probably be packing Leyline of the Void so I can get into the finals.
That was probably a little too much information... I just realized I kind of went on a story tangent... but yes. Undeveloped meta.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
Artifacts:
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Enchantments:
2 Bitterblossom
Instants:
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Go for the Throat
Sorceries:
4 Vindicate
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Lands:
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Plains
3 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Fetid Heath
2 Duress
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Perish
2 Phyrexian Crusader
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Bitterblossom
I went 7-2, finishing out of the top 16 on breakers as my losses were in rounds 1 and 4 to UW Landstill and Pattern of Rebirth respectively. I beat 2 mirrors (both with Chrome Mox, 1 with Dark Ritual as well), 2 Merfolk, 1 Cat Zoo, 1 UW Stoneblade, and 1 Aggro Loam.
SOBM was a last minute inclusion, I was going to run SOFI or SOWP, but ended up being great. Swinging through Goyfs/Knights with pro-Jace is great! And it gives you more guys to suit up, which was an incredible perk.
Phyrexian Crusader in the board was great and came in 6 out of 9 rounds. He might warrant main deck inclusion if you're not worried about combo.
As far as mana accelerants go, I preferred the smoother mana curve over jumping from 0 to 2. I had 10 turn one plays with 6 discard and 4 STP. I consider that a turn 1 play in the matchups where an opponent is playing a creature on turn 1, as I usually want to swords it immediately barring any chance of running into Daze (Goblin Lackey, Wild Nacatl, Steppe Lynx, Noble Hierarch sometimes).
Ghostly Prison came in against Merfolk and Zoo and absolutely dominated the 2 games I saw it.
Elspeth is my girl and I was very happy moving her to the main. I want to see her in like, every non-combo matchup ever. She helps you get back when you're behind, breaks stalemates like a champ, crushes your opponent when you're ahead, and is the perfect draw if your opponent has an active Jace. One of my opponents (Jeph Foster with UW Stoneblade) said that he thinks Elspeth is better than Jace right now, and Alex Bertoncini said that every legacy deck that can run Elspeth should find a way to run one.
I didn't play against Hive Mind or any Tendrils deck but I think being able to go up to 6 hate bears and 8 T1 discard spells after board puts me in a favorable position in those matchups.
Lover of EDH, hater of whiny EDH players.
Thank you! I have been advocating this for a while on the Dead Guy Ale thread but I don't think I've convinced anyone.
I wrote a long thread on why this would be good, but I think people are still too hung up on mixing both poison and damage. I really didn't think it mattered because our deck is not one to race the opponent, but to gain tempo and grind them to death.
The fact that Phyrexian Crusader is pretty much indestructible from spot removal is huge when we can't pump out relevant creatures much. This is especially true against the zoo match up as they pretty much remove any other creatures we have. Having Phrexian Crusader will make us immune to many aggro based match ups.
If you could elaborate on how he worked in your games, that will be great. Also if you could tell us if mixing poison and damage was ever a downer.
Thanks!
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
Also being able to fly can come in handy vs things like tombstalker.
I've been running two in the main deck and i love them.
Stillmoon Cavalier still sucks ass.
PS I lost to Jeph Foster for a T16 spot in Richmond. He was playing Merfolk and I just couldn't get to a third land till the eighth or ninth turn for the Ghostly Prison that was in my opening hand and died to Mutavault beats
I wrote a short report that ended up being a long report here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?2597-Deck-Deadguy-Ale-(B-w-Confidant)&p=579101&viewfull=1#post579101
I don't think Stillmoon Cavalier is very good. Pro-black is okay, but if you want something for Zoo you need something that beats the **** out of Zoo. Phyrexian Crusader does just that.
Lover of EDH, hater of whiny EDH players.
because of gofy i think mirran crusader is a better choice overall, because he'll help you vs norug, bant, and anything else running gofy
Legacy:
UGRB 4 color cascade
EDH/Commander:
BWG Teneb, the Harvester
I'm pretty sure the Crusader can block nacatl's without any trouble. Crusader's first strike will resolve first, putting two -1 counters on the nacatle. This should nerf the nacatl down to a 1/1 by the time it hits back. Crusader still alive, nacatle at 1/1. Right?
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
Hey look I have a page of alters!
Level 1 Judge!
Modern
- Merfolk UR
Legacy
- Stoneblade BW
EDH
- BUOona, Queen of the FaeBU
- BRWKaalia, the VastWRB
- WURZedruuRUW
Sale Thread!
CHARGIN' MAH TRADE THREAD
Oh, your right, I got that confused in my head when I said that. He has infect and i was just thinking 2/2 first strike. so he can take care of nacatls, but not full grown gofys
Legacy:
UGRB 4 color cascade
EDH/Commander:
BWG Teneb, the Harvester
Gros: Looks pretty solid to me, almost identical to my list in the OP. I have never had much of a problem with UW StoneBlade or Affinity, so if those are your main competition, good deck choice.
Tip: Enclose your deck in [ DECK ] [ /DECK ] tags for easy reading.
On matchups:
Very good (75+) - Merfolk, UW StoneBlade, Maverick
Good (55-75) - Affinity, TES, Belcher, NO RUG, Hulk Rebirth, Gobbos, Combo Elves, Bant
Meh (45-55) - Enchantress (Easy G1, hard g2 if they have Leyline of Sanctity), Hive Mind (see Enchantress)
Bad (35-45) - Stax, Burn, UW Landstill, Dredge
Very Bad (35-) - None
This has been my approximate experience playing vs various decks. Any objections?
Also, I've been thinking about a ET Tutor sb lately. Maybe something like:
1 Ghostly Prison/Moat
1 Serenity
1 Tormod's crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sword of Fire and Ice/Sword of War and Peace
1 Manriki-gusari
1 Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker
3 Perish
2 Mirran Crusader
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Thanks for the list. Also here it is for any one that wanted it that does not want to click the link.
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Dark Confidant
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Dark Ritual
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
3 Vindicate
1 Bitterblossom
2 Swamp
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Fetid Heath
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Batterskull
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Shriekmaw
1 Darkblast
2 Perish
2 Bitterblossom
I am also not a fan of this list any more. Basically i think having batterskull in the board and only 1 bitterblossom in the main is extremely wrong.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
1) 1 Batterskull in the main always. I play a second in the board for Fish, Zoo, Bant, Maverick, etc. Decks where you want it and decks that have Pridemages.
2) Chrome Mox or Dark Ritual but usually not both. 5 is a lot of accelerants. I don't play either.
3) Bitterblossom is good as a 2+of main.
4) Sword of Body and Mind is as good or better than Fire and Ice now.
Lover of EDH, hater of whiny EDH players.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit