Is this archetype really that easily shut down? I kind of doubt it, but a brief summary of the biggest hosers would be really helpful.
Thanks!
Burn is an Legacy archetype that can be hosed with the right cards, but fortunately those hosers are nowhere near as crippling to Burn as other hosers can be for other decks (I.E. graveyard hate vs Dredge). Another thing we have going for us is that most Legacy players don't pack sideboard hate specifically for us because Burn generally makes up a pretty small portion of most metagames and the best Burn hate is narrow and not applicable to other matchups. Here's a short list of the hate cards I've occasionally faced over the past year or so playing Burn and how to deal with them...
Batterskull, Umezawa's Jitte, Sword of War and Peace, Scavenging Ooze, and Other Nasty Lifegainy Things - We don't like our opponents gaining life, and these sort of cards do show up somewhat regularly in Legacy. The best overall solution is to land a Sulfuric Vortex to just say "NO!" to lifegain until they can find a way to deal with the Vortex, and hopefully you'll have killed them by that point. If you don't have a Vortex to play though there are some other options. For Batterksull in pre-board games it just comes down to killing the Stoneforge Mystic before they can use it to get Batterskull into play (Volcanic Fallout is great for this, since it is uncounterable). In regards to the Jitte it's somewhat similar, never let the opponent equip it to a creature and attack. If it starts getting counters on it you will lose in almost every case.
For games 2 & 3 against decks with artifact based lifegain we're fortunate to have a ton of different ways to destroy artifacts. Shattering Spree is a popular option but I prefer Smash to Smithreens myself, since it is essentially a free Lava Spike strapped to a Shatter and that synergizes very well with the deck's overall goal.
If you see a lot of Scavanging Ooze in your meta the best bet is simply to run less creatures and more burn spells (don't feed the Ooze) and kill it immediately if possible.
To sum that all up, the best way of dealing with lifegain is to just play a Sulfuric Vortex and make sure to board some artifact destruction spells.
Leyline of Sanctity - This is probably the most common dedicated hate you'll run into, and even then you won't run into it very often. It does prevent you from targeting your opponent with many of your burn spells (Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, Magma Jet, and Fireblast) but you can still attack them with any creatures you might have, use Flame Rift / Volcanic Fallout / Price of Progress / Sulfuric Vortex to damage them, and just use your bolts to take out any creatures they might play. Leyline is not the silver bullet many control players think it will be against Burn but if you're really concerned about it than a couple copies of Anarchy in your sideboard will take care of it. Anarchy is a bit over our usual mana curve, but games against Leyline tend to run fairly long so you should get to 4 mana at some point during the game. Personally I just don't worry about it since we still have plenty of ways to kill the opponent even if they do get Leyline.
Circle of Protection: Red - This one rarely ever shows up, but when it does it can be devastating. You pretty much have to wait for the opponent to tap out for a threat and then unload whatever burn you can on them and hope it's enough. Again, Anarchy will take care of it but this card shows up so rarely you shouldn't have to worry about it.
Solitary Confinement - Played almost exclusively by Enchantress, this card can hose us pretty well. Again, Anarchy will take care of it but most of the time you should be able to kill the opponent before they can get this card out and maintain a lock with it.
Glacial Chasm - You don't see this one often outside of Lands decks, but when it does show up it can be rather annoying. Your best bet in this situation is to keep your hand stocked up on instants and wait for them to sacrifice the Chasm during their upkeep (so they can use Life from the Loam to get it back again) and then unload your instant speed burn on them at the end of their upkeep. Glacial Chasm can be annoying, but they're going to have to break the lock eventually. Be ready when they do.
Edit : Almost forgot, Iona, Shield of Emeria - Unless you can kill them at instant speed in response to Iona or have them low on life with a Sulfuric Vortex in play when she hits the field there's really nothing that can be done here. I think your only even remotely realistic option for dealing with Iona is sideboarding Brittle Effigy, which IMHO isn't worth the space it takes up in the board just to deal with Iona. Pick up your cards and go to the next game.
I'm sure others will come up with some other hate cards that I missed, but those are the main ones I've had to fight against in tournaments from time to time and almost none of them are unbeatable (barring Iona) as long as you keep your play tight, main deck some amount of Sulfuric Vortex (I like 3 myself but I can see the rational behind running 2), and sideboard some good answers for problematic cards you might encounter.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
I posted this on the Source a few weeks ago, it seems applicable here and now:
It seems we are all in agreement that Burn is easy to hate out. This is [partially] what we have sideboards for. I think it would be useful to make a list of all the things people use to hate out burn, and figure out good ways to build the SB or adjust your maindeck accordingly.
These are the cards I've personally run against Burn or had played against me, and my the choices I see to deal with these things
Everything - Nevinyrral's Disk, [almost] Chaos Warp, technically Ratchet Bomb, but I wouldn't rely on this for anything above 2cc, and even then it's bad against anything with artifact removal.
QUESTION ................................................. ANSWER Leyline of Sanctity ..................................... Anarchy, creatures, Flame Rift/PoP Chill ........................................................ Pyroblast/REB, Ratchet Bomb
COP: Red ................................................... Bomb, Pithing Needle, Anarchy Warmth .................................................... Bomb, Anarchy
Chalice@1 .................................................. Smash/Spree Scavenging Ooze ........................................ Needle, kill it with fire
Jitte .......................................................... Smash/Spree, Needle, Sulfuric Vortex Batterskull ................................................. Smash/Spree, burn, Vortex
CounterTop ................................................ REB, Bomb, Vexing Shusher Iona, Shield of Emeria .................................. Phyrexian Metamorph, everything else is too slow.
I personally don't like SB answers that cost 4, but I realize that they can be useful. Of the 4 drops, I think Disk has the most utility by far, but it's easy to play around, and your opponent gets a chance to destroy it before you can use it.
This is my current side board:
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Chaos Warp
3 grave hate, currently Faerie Macabre
Additional things to add (though I have had no problems with these personally): Solitary Confinement ..... Bomb, Anarchy, should come down too late to bother us anyway. Glacial Chasm .............. This comes from Lands if I'm not mistaken? PoP should own them. Aegis of Honor ............. Needle, Bomb, Anarchy, creatures
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Building: Who knows?
EDH WR Jor Kadeen - 100% pimp URG Maelstrom Wanderer - rampramprampbomb.dec UG Prime Speaker Zegana Control UBR Gwendlyn di Corci and her band of Scantily Clad Women UR Pauper Gelectrode
New cards need to do one of three things (without significantly negatively affecting the others) to be considered for burn (md or sb):
1. Speed up our clock
2. Increase consistency
3. Stop one of our worst enemies (life gain, faster combo, Leyline, Iona)
Reforge can help 1 or 2 but can just as easily hurt either. It might actually hurt 3 too by letting them find an answer. You won't always want to cast this...
The fastest you can cast this is t3; you should have played two lands and two or three spells, so you should usually have only three or four other cards in hand. if I'm not mistaken, you can even drop a land and cast bolt in response to Reforge; so you should usually be happy to cast it.
Drawing a new seven helps dig for answers like Vortex or Chaos Warp. The inconsistency of opening with Reforge can be offset by top decking another and replacing the first with a new card.
Aegis of Honor is autoscoop, unless you have Needle in hand. Most people don't run it in the SB though.
its not entirely. ive played through the card before. you just have to wait for a tap out or provide more burn than they can handle. (of course you life must be higher than theirs.) like all hate it sucks to play against, but its not an auto lose.
Yeah, CoP: Red is much more likely to be played since it has additional benefits against things like Progenitus. Also, Leylines are good against discard spells, Grindstone, and Tendrils. If you're facing an Aegis, more than likely you're playing in a burn-happy meta.
Another thought on Reforge - if it turns out this is worth running (still dubious) we might want to run fetch lands for deck thinning alone. The more cards we draw the more significant that small increase in spell to land proportion becomes.
More intuitively, if we get a fresh seven on t3 or t4 we don't want to see as many lands as we do on our opening seven. I'd think twelve to fourteen fetches would be right in a Reforge-heavy build.
Why would you run Reckless Abandon with Vexing Devil? It is inconsistent, since most of your creatures naturally kill themselves.
It has good synergy with hellspark and I just like the card and have had it win me more games than I've lost due to it being dead as long as I run only 2.
All the introductory info is helpful. Most of the hate seems to come from enchantments and artifacts. I've run into Batterskull a few times in my limited testing online. I haven't seen anything too unusual yet. I still wonder about splashing another color, maybe white. Disenchant kills about every hate card while Swords to Plowshares is a broader answer than Phyrexian Metamorph. I don't know how tough it would be with Wastelands everywhere but, it certainly provides easier answers. Maybe some of the problem cards aren't common enough to need another color.
Another thought on Reforge - if it turns out this is worth running (still dubious) we might want to run fetch lands for deck thinning alone. The more cards we draw the more significant that small increase in spell to land proportion becomes.
More intuitively, if we get a fresh seven on t3 or t4 we don't want to see as many lands as we do on our opening seven. I'd think twelve to fourteen fetches would be right in a Reforge-heavy build.
Deck thinning has been proven to be more or less a myth. Really don't make much difference to be honest....
As for the hate, there's hate against pretty much every single deck. It's just the way the game is designed IMO - I obviously do my best to try and minimize the damage but building a sideboard (or deck) to ONLY deal with potential hate is really not a very good way to build.
I really don't think we want to be running that many answers for an answer because lots of times people arn't going to dedicate enough of their board to the specific hosers, and if they do dedicate the 4+ slots and feel comfortable mulligan down for them all that means is they prepared for the MU and respect the decks power and they more or less deserve the W.
IF your board is just an answer for their potential answers you lose your decks focus and risk not having answers for some of the more unfair decks in the format
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Magic players have made it abundantly clear that their time is worth $0/hour in their opinion, so no sympathy there. -DR jeebus or something
Aegis of Honor is really the most ridiculous hatecard against Burn; much more painful than Leyline, especially now that creature-heavy decks are seeing more popularity than spell-heavy ones.
But if you see cards like Aegis, CoP:Red and Leyline in your meta SBs, then by all means run Chaos Warp or even Anarchy in your SB.
Aegis of Honor is really the most ridiculous hatecard against Burn; much more painful than Leyline, especially now that creature-heavy decks are seeing more popularity than spell-heavy ones.
But if you see cards like Aegis, CoP:Red and Leyline in your meta SBs, then by all means run Chaos Warp or even Anarchy in your SB.
Anyone been testing the Devil? Any results?
I agree that Aegis of Honor is pretty devastating, though I've seen very few people use it. If it starts to become a problem, Anarchy seems like the best choice - despite it's high casting cost. Could also take care of other problem enchantments at the same time, similar to the ones you mentioned above.
As for the Vexing Devil, definitely so far so good... but to be honest I haven't tested him enough yet to adequately determine if he's worth the slot or not. I really need to test him more in large scale, a few games using him as a proxy with some friends isn't quite enough. That said, I have a feeling he'll become a staple once people realize how good he can be.
Deck thinning has been proven to be more or less a myth. Really don't make much difference to be honest....
You might want to scrutinize that "proof". Deck thinning has been proved to be relatively insignificant compared to the dangers of running fetches over basics, but this is based on lower card draw estimates.
So what do you think of Wrath with your deck ? Does the 4 Magma jet help to touch the Wraths ? Is there a lot of really bad hands with 2 Wraths in ?
Would u keep ur deck like this or would you make some changes ?
I liked Wrath and in solitaire testing further (haven't been able to test further with my group) I think in my build 2 Flame Rift, 2 Thunderous Wrath is good. It's nice to be able to queue it up with Magma Jet. As burn players we can take the mulligan to six easily; we're top decking a touch earlier but it's not the end of the world. I've been operating on "Thunderous Wrath in hand on initial draw, auto-mulligan" so far. It's popped up in my six card initial draws a few times, which again I've been auto-mulling. Going to five stings, and it's not much fun.
The problem with Wrath is you want to see if off the draw step, and not in the opener. If you run fewer, the problem is that while you see fewer in the opener, you'll also see fewer off the draw step. It doesn't change the fact that over the course of many games, you're going to be mulling or keeping dead cards in hand more often than you'll be drawing Wrath off the top.
Given the lack of serious argument against this point, I'm just going to keep bringing it up:
So lastly, the number you run. Some people are saying, "well, maybe it doesn't justify a 4-of, but how about 1-2?" The problem is that no matter how many you run, the 0-or-5 math still applies. If you run 1-2, you decrease the chances of seeing it in your opening hand, but you also decrease the chances of seeing it in the draw phase. In short, running a single T.Wrath doesn't let it deal 5 damage any more consistently than running four of them. It just compounds the damage inconsistency with the inconsistency of even drawing it to begin with.
By all means, test the hell out of it. But if it appears positive in testing despite the math not adding up, consider the possibility of confirmation bias. Or if there's a flaw in my analysis above, please point it out.
So i assembled this Burn RDW legacy deck for a tournament and was hoping to prepare a sideboard for an unknown meta. The only confirmed decks i know can and will be there (esperswarn stoneforge affinity & elves) and only because my friends will be running those.
>The blasts i chose for anti: hive/pact, combo, control, etc.
>Shatter storm vs affinity (i know there are more efficient cards like shatterspree and smithereens but I own neither.
>Slagstorm I thought would be a good board whipe vs tribals and alternatively a burn player.
>Ratchets, though I only own 2, i have been hearing nothing but praises from you guys in the OP.
Not sure what else to add if not re-proportion things. I don't have money to go and grab anything expensive, but suggestions are welcome.
Also IMO as far as Vexing Devil, people who enjoy Keldon Marauders will enjoy the devils. (though I'd still drop a goblin guide turn 1 over it.) Though I can see them allowed to be played and then sworded or pathed or in mirror just burned. As far as T.Wrath? I can see maybe running a few but max 3 if im feeling super lucky more likely to run 2. Great risk but amazing reward for both of them.
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[i]Legacy:[/i] UBW Affinity RRR Burn WWW Death and Taxes
You might want to scrutinize that "proof". Deck thinning has been proved to be relatively insignificant compared to the dangers of running fetches over basics, but this is based on lower card draw estimates.
Im not exactly sure what you're trying to say.... I should scrutinize the proof but in your next sentence you state it's relatively insignificant?
Sorry, being genuine here, I really don't follow
Back to the deck as I don't want to this to get off topic. IMHO the only real card here that grabs my attention is the Vexing Devil. I still stand behind Thunderous Wrath not being worth it but please playtest more and post results. Personally I'll be leaving it out.
Hopefully red gets a few more goodies that we don't know about yet!
Yeah the Devil is a pure given with regards to competitive mages...4 Damage = "Burn" / Sligh.
Only storm/combo players are going to let this creature resolve, all others need to be aware of the beatdown ect taking in the "tandem" with all those roast spells.
I'm liking Risky Bet a lot more than Wheel of Fortune 2. As a late game topdeck I'll likely have more than two lands down so the threat(s) I draw into will likely be playable. It'll still clutter up the opening hand, but not nearly as badly as the Miracle cards.
Overall, I'm not sure that it's worth it. But anyone contemplating Wheel should really think about this one too.
I'm also intrigued by the new draw. For reference:
1R
Instant
Discard your hand, then draw two cards.
Might be superior to Magma Jet despite not dealing damage? Testing will have to tell. It's always a risky premise to spend mana in this deck without dealing damage or seriously disrupting our opponent, but MAYBE this card can be efficient enough to overcome that.
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Modern: U Merfolk (in progress)
Legacy: RBurn
Im not exactly sure what you're trying to say.... I should scrutinize the proof but in your next sentence you state it's relatively insignificant?
Sorry, being genuine here, I really don't follow
Deck thinning is insignificant if you only draw three or four cads after t1, but if your deck has a lot of card draw it becomes significant. If your running Reforge you could easily draw 10+ cards post opening, which would make deck thinning meaningful. Anyone wanting to test Reforge should test it with a lot of fetches I think.
Burn is an Legacy archetype that can be hosed with the right cards, but fortunately those hosers are nowhere near as crippling to Burn as other hosers can be for other decks (I.E. graveyard hate vs Dredge). Another thing we have going for us is that most Legacy players don't pack sideboard hate specifically for us because Burn generally makes up a pretty small portion of most metagames and the best Burn hate is narrow and not applicable to other matchups. Here's a short list of the hate cards I've occasionally faced over the past year or so playing Burn and how to deal with them...
Batterskull, Umezawa's Jitte, Sword of War and Peace, Scavenging Ooze, and Other Nasty Lifegainy Things - We don't like our opponents gaining life, and these sort of cards do show up somewhat regularly in Legacy. The best overall solution is to land a Sulfuric Vortex to just say "NO!" to lifegain until they can find a way to deal with the Vortex, and hopefully you'll have killed them by that point. If you don't have a Vortex to play though there are some other options. For Batterksull in pre-board games it just comes down to killing the Stoneforge Mystic before they can use it to get Batterskull into play (Volcanic Fallout is great for this, since it is uncounterable). In regards to the Jitte it's somewhat similar, never let the opponent equip it to a creature and attack. If it starts getting counters on it you will lose in almost every case.
For games 2 & 3 against decks with artifact based lifegain we're fortunate to have a ton of different ways to destroy artifacts. Shattering Spree is a popular option but I prefer Smash to Smithreens myself, since it is essentially a free Lava Spike strapped to a Shatter and that synergizes very well with the deck's overall goal.
If you see a lot of Scavanging Ooze in your meta the best bet is simply to run less creatures and more burn spells (don't feed the Ooze) and kill it immediately if possible.
To sum that all up, the best way of dealing with lifegain is to just play a Sulfuric Vortex and make sure to board some artifact destruction spells.
Leyline of Sanctity - This is probably the most common dedicated hate you'll run into, and even then you won't run into it very often. It does prevent you from targeting your opponent with many of your burn spells (Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, Magma Jet, and Fireblast) but you can still attack them with any creatures you might have, use Flame Rift / Volcanic Fallout / Price of Progress / Sulfuric Vortex to damage them, and just use your bolts to take out any creatures they might play. Leyline is not the silver bullet many control players think it will be against Burn but if you're really concerned about it than a couple copies of Anarchy in your sideboard will take care of it. Anarchy is a bit over our usual mana curve, but games against Leyline tend to run fairly long so you should get to 4 mana at some point during the game. Personally I just don't worry about it since we still have plenty of ways to kill the opponent even if they do get Leyline.
Circle of Protection: Red - This one rarely ever shows up, but when it does it can be devastating. You pretty much have to wait for the opponent to tap out for a threat and then unload whatever burn you can on them and hope it's enough. Again, Anarchy will take care of it but this card shows up so rarely you shouldn't have to worry about it.
Solitary Confinement - Played almost exclusively by Enchantress, this card can hose us pretty well. Again, Anarchy will take care of it but most of the time you should be able to kill the opponent before they can get this card out and maintain a lock with it.
Glacial Chasm - You don't see this one often outside of Lands decks, but when it does show up it can be rather annoying. Your best bet in this situation is to keep your hand stocked up on instants and wait for them to sacrifice the Chasm during their upkeep (so they can use Life from the Loam to get it back again) and then unload your instant speed burn on them at the end of their upkeep. Glacial Chasm can be annoying, but they're going to have to break the lock eventually. Be ready when they do.
Edit : Almost forgot, Iona, Shield of Emeria - Unless you can kill them at instant speed in response to Iona or have them low on life with a Sulfuric Vortex in play when she hits the field there's really nothing that can be done here. I think your only even remotely realistic option for dealing with Iona is sideboarding Brittle Effigy, which IMHO isn't worth the space it takes up in the board just to deal with Iona. Pick up your cards and go to the next game.
I'm sure others will come up with some other hate cards that I missed, but those are the main ones I've had to fight against in tournaments from time to time and almost none of them are unbeatable (barring Iona) as long as you keep your play tight, main deck some amount of Sulfuric Vortex (I like 3 myself but I can see the rational behind running 2), and sideboard some good answers for problematic cards you might encounter.
Hope that helps!
Why would you run Reckless Abandon with Vexing Devil? It is inconsistent, since most of your creatures naturally kill themselves.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Additional things to add (though I have had no problems with these personally):
Solitary Confinement ..... Bomb, Anarchy, should come down too late to bother us anyway.
Glacial Chasm .............. This comes from Lands if I'm not mistaken? PoP should own them.
Aegis of Honor ............. Needle, Bomb, Anarchy, creatures
Currently playing:
GW(G/B) Maverick
RRR Burn
(G/B)G(G/R) Elves!
Building: Who knows?
EDH
WR Jor Kadeen - 100% pimp
URG Maelstrom Wanderer - rampramprampbomb.dec
UG Prime Speaker Zegana Control
UBR Gwendlyn di Corci and her band of Scantily Clad Women
UR Pauper Gelectrode
Modern/Casual
WU Acid Trip
WURZedruu's Didgeridoo
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The fastest you can cast this is t3; you should have played two lands and two or three spells, so you should usually have only three or four other cards in hand. if I'm not mistaken, you can even drop a land and cast bolt in response to Reforge; so you should usually be happy to cast it.
Drawing a new seven helps dig for answers like Vortex or Chaos Warp. The inconsistency of opening with Reforge can be offset by top decking another and replacing the first with a new card.
i plan to at least test it.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
its not entirely. ive played through the card before. you just have to wait for a tap out or provide more burn than they can handle. (of course you life must be higher than theirs.) like all hate it sucks to play against, but its not an auto lose.
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Getting Started in Legacy and Legacy Budget Primer 5!
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2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Am I missing why Chaos Warp doesn't answer this?
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
More intuitively, if we get a fresh seven on t3 or t4 we don't want to see as many lands as we do on our opening seven. I'd think twelve to fourteen fetches would be right in a Reforge-heavy build.
In the spirit of kirbysdl's sig, take out Mountains and or Barbarian Rings.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
It has good synergy with hellspark and I just like the card and have had it win me more games than I've lost due to it being dead as long as I run only 2.
I've been running it in my sideboard since it was printed and I got my playset, I actually have 6.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Deck thinning has been proven to be more or less a myth. Really don't make much difference to be honest....
As for the hate, there's hate against pretty much every single deck. It's just the way the game is designed IMO - I obviously do my best to try and minimize the damage but building a sideboard (or deck) to ONLY deal with potential hate is really not a very good way to build.
IF your board is just an answer for their potential answers you lose your decks focus and risk not having answers for some of the more unfair decks in the format
Magic players have made it abundantly clear that their time is worth $0/hour in their opinion, so no sympathy there. -DR jeebus or something
But if you see cards like Aegis, CoP:Red and Leyline in your meta SBs, then by all means run Chaos Warp or even Anarchy in your SB.
Anyone been testing the Devil? Any results?
I agree that Aegis of Honor is pretty devastating, though I've seen very few people use it. If it starts to become a problem, Anarchy seems like the best choice - despite it's high casting cost. Could also take care of other problem enchantments at the same time, similar to the ones you mentioned above.
As for the Vexing Devil, definitely so far so good... but to be honest I haven't tested him enough yet to adequately determine if he's worth the slot or not. I really need to test him more in large scale, a few games using him as a proxy with some friends isn't quite enough. That said, I have a feeling he'll become a staple once people realize how good he can be.
You might want to scrutinize that "proof". Deck thinning has been proved to be relatively insignificant compared to the dangers of running fetches over basics, but this is based on lower card draw estimates.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
I liked Wrath and in solitaire testing further (haven't been able to test further with my group) I think in my build 2 Flame Rift, 2 Thunderous Wrath is good. It's nice to be able to queue it up with Magma Jet. As burn players we can take the mulligan to six easily; we're top decking a touch earlier but it's not the end of the world. I've been operating on "Thunderous Wrath in hand on initial draw, auto-mulligan" so far. It's popped up in my six card initial draws a few times, which again I've been auto-mulling. Going to five stings, and it's not much fun.
Given the lack of serious argument against this point, I'm just going to keep bringing it up:
By all means, test the hell out of it. But if it appears positive in testing despite the math not adding up, consider the possibility of confirmation bias. Or if there's a flaw in my analysis above, please point it out.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Price of Progress
3 Magma Jet
4 Fireblast
Sorceries
2 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
3 Flame Rift
3 Browbeat
4 Rift Bolt
Lands
3 Teetering Peaks
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
11 Mountain
Sideboard So far:
3 Red Elemental Blast (i have an extra)
3 Pyroblast (i have an extra)
3 Shatterstorm (i have an extra)
3 Slagstorm (no extras)
2 Ratchet Bomb (no extras)
1 Leyline of Punishment (playset owned)
>The blasts i chose for anti: hive/pact, combo, control, etc.
>Shatter storm vs affinity (i know there are more efficient cards like shatterspree and smithereens but I own neither.
>Slagstorm I thought would be a good board whipe vs tribals and alternatively a burn player.
>Ratchets, though I only own 2, i have been hearing nothing but praises from you guys in the OP.
Not sure what else to add if not re-proportion things. I don't have money to go and grab anything expensive, but suggestions are welcome.
Cards I had considered:
Sundial of the Infinite (pact)
Tormod's crypt/grafdigger's cage/Relic of Progenitus/Nihil Spellbomb (reanimator/kotor/dredge),
Brittle Effigy (iona/things i cannot burn to death.)
Also IMO as far as Vexing Devil, people who enjoy Keldon Marauders will enjoy the devils. (though I'd still drop a goblin guide turn 1 over it.) Though I can see them allowed to be played and then sworded or pathed or in mirror just burned. As far as T.Wrath? I can see maybe running a few but max 3 if im feeling super lucky more likely to run 2. Great risk but amazing reward for both of them.
[i]Legacy:[/i]
UBW Affinity
RRR Burn
WWW Death and Taxes
[i]EDH:[/i]
UUU Azami's High Tide Wizards
0R0 Daretti's Staxheep
URG Animar Combo
WUBRG Progenitus Superfriends
WWGSissay's Sissies
[i] Tiny Leaders EDH
1RR Chandra Burn
RBW Alesha's Aristocrats & Taxes
UUU Kira's Merfolk Cult
GGG Ezuri's Elfball
Im not exactly sure what you're trying to say.... I should scrutinize the proof but in your next sentence you state it's relatively insignificant?
Sorry, being genuine here, I really don't follow
Back to the deck as I don't want to this to get off topic. IMHO the only real card here that grabs my attention is the Vexing Devil. I still stand behind Thunderous Wrath not being worth it but please playtest more and post results. Personally I'll be leaving it out.
Hopefully red gets a few more goodies that we don't know about yet!
Only storm/combo players are going to let this creature resolve, all others need to be aware of the beatdown ect taking in the "tandem" with all those roast spells.
Go Burn,
S.M.
Overall, I'm not sure that it's worth it. But anyone contemplating Wheel should really think about this one too.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
1R
Instant
Discard your hand, then draw two cards.
Might be superior to Magma Jet despite not dealing damage? Testing will have to tell. It's always a risky premise to spend mana in this deck without dealing damage or seriously disrupting our opponent, but MAYBE this card can be efficient enough to overcome that.
Modern: U Merfolk (in progress)
Legacy: RBurn
Deck thinning is insignificant if you only draw three or four cads after t1, but if your deck has a lot of card draw it becomes significant. If your running Reforge you could easily draw 10+ cards post opening, which would make deck thinning meaningful. Anyone wanting to test Reforge should test it with a lot of fetches I think.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats