@ Yost-
- What made you decide to keep the 3 Figures despite the overall hate for the card in this thread? Did you feel like you would rather keep them than say fallout or vortex?
- Despite the insane amount of stoneforge decks you only had 3 smash in your board and no fallout or vortex anywhere, why is this? Would you change this at all? How many stoneforge decks did you face and were they an issue?
-What made you decide to use the 17m 2 barb ring land base?
- what made you decide to use macabre in the board? was it the discussions about it here? I read that you only had to bring it in once, are you happy that you had it despite this?
- what made you decide to opt for the "5th REB" instead of having an extra slot for something else in the board. Did you ever bring in all 5? would you change this now?
-figure is the most aggressive one drop besides goblin guide. i dont like getting stifled so i stay away from lavamancer and fetches and stuff like that. just want a solid beater. stifle/wasteland is also why i wouldn't even consider the splash builds
-actually played zero stoneblade. one maverick deck. crushed him in 6minutes. I drew the smash for his batterskull. probably could have burned him out regardless
-yes the discussion here was why i chose macabre. reanimator is such a bad matchup where dredge is at least winnable i wanted to dedicate my 4 gy hate slots to the best cards for that matchup. for the most part the mainboard is very solid and needs very little siding so its best to just have cards for the absolute worst matchups even if i don't see them.
-i brought in all 5 vs hivemind to stop show and tell. which won me that match. i can imagine going to 4 or even 3 as i rarely had things i wanted to take out for them. the extra slots could probably just be mindbreak traps for storm. only loss in swiss, didn't feel winnable at all with pillar after losing the die roll.
shrine is a cool card, but it's just too slow in legacy for a card that really does nothing on it's official play turn. In legacy, you're really wanting to cast a pair of bolts or just a keldon marauders or somesuch.
kudos to austin. the ultimate underdog. it was great to read the posts and see the excitement in all the red players as you clinched a spot in the top and finally won. The living proof that playing mountains can actually lead you to glory. My respects and congratulations.
kudos to austin. the ultimate underdog. it was great to read the posts and see the excitement in all the red players as you clinched a spot in the top and finally won. The living proof that playing mountains can actually lead you to glory. My respects and congratulations.
that about sums it up. uncountable 2 damage won me 4-5 games on the day. all of them close games where the control deck was stabilizing and could kill me
a) Will people start to pack "burn hate" on SB (life gain, leyline, etc.)? Should burn players worry?
b) Will people start to play more with burn on tournaments?
I haven't played Legacy for long, but I would have to say yes to both; especially if your local meta pays close attention to the tournament scene and its weekly results.
Almost finished my list, so I have 0 actual experience playing burn in this format.
However I noticed this card from the DA Spoiler (shoot me down if I'm not supposed to post this here!)
Any chance Increasing Vengeance might see some play in some burn lists? At worst you cast another lightning Bolt for RR, at best you do 12 damage with a Fireblast for 3RR in a stalled game later.
Congrats Austin! Glad to see people still willing to take burn to big events. Good to not only see the deck represented but Barbarian Ring as well. I've been out of the loop for forever, but how long have you been running the Figures/Flame Rifts? Are those more or less the standard choices nowadays? [EDIT] Figure question already answered, no worries.
As always when a deck shows well I'd expect to see it more represented in the meta, and better prepared for. But as is always the case with burn (and legacy for that matter), the meta will shift, or interest will fade and Burn's ability/presence in the format will fluctuate accordingly. The funniest thing I can see coming of this is the price of Chain Lightning going up...
@Endarius: Fork is better for us. And it sadly isn't quite good enough to make the cut. At least with Fork you can copy an opponents counterspell or other such shenanigans, and the flashback cost on vengeance is too high to really take seriously.
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Fork is better for us. And it sadly isn't quite good enough to make the cut. At least with Fork you can copy an opponents counterspell or other such shenanigans, and the flashback cost on vengeance is too high to really take seriously.
I'm thinking in get Fork in sideboard against Epic Storm and some storm combos. I have some doubts what happen if we fork Tendrils of Agony? We reply all their ToA more one right?
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Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes Commander: Locust God
I'm thinking in get Fork in sideboard against Epic Storm and some storm combos. I have some doubts what happen if we fork Tendrils of Agony? We reply all their ToA more one right?
If memory serves, no.
Fork only becomes a copy of the spell on the stack upon resolution. So they cast, storm, you cast, resolve, and have a single copy of ToA on the stack, having not cast the spell itself.
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Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
I'm thinking in get Fork in sideboard against Epic Storm and some storm combos. I have some doubts what happen if we fork Tendrils of Agony? We reply all their ToA more one right?
Nope, you just copy the spell. The triggered ability only triggers when you actually cast the spell and with Fork, the copied spell is just placed on the stack.
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Thanks, so I give up at all of using Fork. I go to the traps. What is the best time to use the traps just after he do 3 spells, or what else?
Can you answer me one noob question from a beginner, whats's the differences between Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast. I see Yost had 1Pyroblast and 4 REB in sideboard and for me the cards seen the same with another name. REB is better? (Yost had 4) Sorry for a noob question.
Best regards to all.
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Take a look at the first page of this thread, someone asked a similar question within the first 15 posts. What it basically boils down to is Pyroblast can target non-blue spells/permanents while REB can only target blue ones. The effect is almost negligible for Burn, and relevant in combo decks, where they can cast out a Pyroblast/Hydroblast without a relevant target in order to still net +1 storm.
Yost was likely just running the 1 Pyroblast as a 5th REB.
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Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Thanks, so I give up at all of using Fork. I go to the traps. What is the best time to use the traps just after he do 3 spells, or what else?
Can you answer me one noob question from a beginner, whats's the differences between Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast. I see Yost had 1Pyroblast and 4 REB in sideboard and for me the cards seen the same with another name. REB is better? (Yost had 4) Sorry for a noob question.
It was the other way around (Yost had 4 Pyroblast). The difference is minor and usually it's not relevant, but if a Phantasmal Image copies a non-blue creature, Pyroblast can still kill it since it can target anything but only destroys it if its blue, whereas REB can only target a blue spell/permanent.
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It was the other way around (Yost had 4 Pyroblast). The difference is minor and usually it's not relevant, but if a Phantasmal Image copies a non-blue creature, Pyroblast can still kill it since it can target anything but only destroys it if its blue, whereas REB can only target a blue spell/permanent.
The REB pyroblast thing is really negligible. I just have 4 pyroblasts and don't own 4 REBs.One is better vs phantasmal image, other is better vs spellskite. neither are things i really side them in for. maybe if painter servant runs spellskite or something then REB is better but it really is six one way half a dozen the other.
Congratulations on your victory You made all of us red players proud ^.^ Some questions about your list:
It seems to have a fast clock, the thing that worries me is the 19 land pack (with maybe a minor weakness to wasteland if you get screwed and have to use the ring as a land). Did you face many mana screws or have to mulligan because of that?
You already said you did not face one, but what do you do against stoneblade without any vortexes at all? Kill mystic is one way, but counters are pretty bad when you have a singleton out of the removals in hand.
Would you consider running a combination of faerie and surgical extraction in your sideboard? Would that solve some problems against combo and give an extra solution in case faerie gets needled?
Thanks And congrats again
had no problems with lands at all. I've lost a few games off rings getting wasted but most times you can play around it.
killing mystic and having smash in the board has generally been enough. you also have blasts in the board for that matchup.
i had not considered surgical and suppose it is another option. for some reason in my head it hadn't clicked that faerie was an activated ability that could get needled. seems perfectly reasonable to run a split if you're worried about it.
In a list that's geared towards maximum speed and that doesn't run any three drops like Flamebreak or Sulfuric Vortex 19 lands are usually enough.
I'm a bit outdated with Burn and this thread, so please apologize if this has been discussed before, but why has Magma Jet fallen out of favor? I see that many people still run it, but I remember that it was once a staple as a 3-4-off and nowadays I see lists do well without it. How come? Is the lower damage not worth the Scry any more? I can see that, but last time I played the deck Magma Jet was perfect for killing Delvers or SFMs, which both bought me the time as well as gave me the right cards to burn my opponents out later. Thoughts?
i dont really kill delvers very often. mystics you have bolt and chain lightning for. i'd much rather get 4 damage out of a flame rift than 2 out of the magma jet. scry is not super relevent most the time when you're maximizing your clock as the 2 cards you scry into or out of may not even need to be drawn to have lethal damage.
The REB pyroblast thing is really negligible. I just have 4 pyroblasts and don't own 4 REBs.One is better vs phantasmal image, other is better vs spellskite. neither are things i really side them in for. maybe if painter servant runs spellskite or something then REB is better but it really is six one way half a dozen the other.
Thanks all for the explanation. I read the posts in the firs page and I think I understand. I learn more in the last days in this topic about play with Red then in many years. I'm beginner playing with the new rules and with burn, and if you don't mind I will make some questions to learn more.
Can anyone explain me some of the best choices for the sideboard? And one really thing that make me cry is that I don't want to take any card out. I play a standard deck last weekend with Red and only one time I use the sideboard, and it's against Artifacts. The other cards I look and I think and always keep then all
When I look to Yost deck If I want to put sideboard cards, I think I will remove one or 2 creatures (maybe a mistake) but I can decide with the all other cards of burn. What's the worst? If my opponent only have basic lands is easy, I take price of progress, but if he have a lot of no basic lands it's impossible to take a possible 6 or 8 points damage card. Fireblast maybe one out, but it's my favorite finisher...
Can anyone give me a good advice?
Yeah I'm not sure Needle on Faerie is such a huge concern. What decks are we going to want to run yard hate against, and which among those are more likely to field countermagic rather than Pithing Needle?
Don't worry Teacher, my sig's made me cry too. =) Flores would ask you who's the beatdown? Are you playing a disruptive role, or are you on the offense? Burn tends to be on the offense, but against another fast deck, it may make more sense to add less efficient yet more disruptive cards to slow them down while you whittle away at their life. Otherwise, just add a few of the most powerful options in (e.g. Faerie vs Reanimator) and keep on blasting them.
There's a lot more nuance than that, but in general try thinking about overall goals instead of cards to start. Once you understand the structure of the matchup, the relative value of particular cards may be easier to discern.
-figure is the most aggressive one drop besides goblin guide. i dont like getting stifled so i stay away from lavamancer and fetches and stuff like that. just want a solid beater. stifle/wasteland is also why i wouldn't even consider the splash builds
-actually played zero stoneblade. one maverick deck. crushed him in 6minutes. I drew the smash for his batterskull. probably could have burned him out regardless
-yes the discussion here was why i chose macabre. reanimator is such a bad matchup where dredge is at least winnable i wanted to dedicate my 4 gy hate slots to the best cards for that matchup. for the most part the mainboard is very solid and needs very little siding so its best to just have cards for the absolute worst matchups even if i don't see them.
-i brought in all 5 vs hivemind to stop show and tell. which won me that match. i can imagine going to 4 or even 3 as i rarely had things i wanted to take out for them. the extra slots could probably just be mindbreak traps for storm. only loss in swiss, didn't feel winnable at all with pillar after losing the die roll.
Count backwards from 20.
Looking back on it burn had favorable match up with everything I played, kicking myself that I didnt play my old favorite!
I haven't read all 8 billion posts but but why is Shrine of Burning Rage in the deck?
currently playing:
Standard
UW Control
UWB Control
UB Control
MODERN
BRGJund
X Affinity
UWR Control
LEGACY
Dredge
R Burn
UWx Miracles
EDH
BRW Kaalia
______
Quotes:
My Magic Card nicknames.
I think you are wrong about Shrine, the list of Yost is:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=43392
I guess Shrine runs only in standard, because there's no more options...
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
You're right I'm sorry I mistyped. Could Shrine have a home in this deck?
currently playing:
Standard
UW Control
UWB Control
UB Control
MODERN
BRGJund
X Affinity
UWR Control
LEGACY
Dredge
R Burn
UWx Miracles
EDH
BRW Kaalia
______
Quotes:
My Magic Card nicknames.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Pd: how the barbarian rings worked for you?
Yost can answer best of any of us, but see the coverage of 4th Final.
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
that about sums it up. uncountable 2 damage won me 4-5 games on the day. all of them close games where the control deck was stabilizing and could kill me
Count backwards from 20.
About that, a "small pool"-ish for everyone:
a) Will people start to pack "burn hate" on SB (life gain, leyline, etc.)? Should burn players worry?
b) Will people start to play more with burn on tournaments?
Legacy - R Burn
Commander - GWU Rafiq of the Many
Modern - BGW Melira Pod (with borrowed fetchlands, but still)
Standard - R Blitz
I haven't played Legacy for long, but I would have to say yes to both; especially if your local meta pays close attention to the tournament scene and its weekly results.
However I noticed this card from the DA Spoiler (shoot me down if I'm not supposed to post this here!)
Any chance Increasing Vengeance might see some play in some burn lists? At worst you cast another lightning Bolt for RR, at best you do 12 damage with a Fireblast for 3RR in a stalled game later.
Thanks gents!
Current Capt. of Team "Ju"
I play this:
Rotation is coming...
Modern: GGGSTOMPY
ZOO (Goyf-less)
Legacy:
Brewing
EDH:
Too many to name.
As always when a deck shows well I'd expect to see it more represented in the meta, and better prepared for. But as is always the case with burn (and legacy for that matter), the meta will shift, or interest will fade and Burn's ability/presence in the format will fluctuate accordingly. The funniest thing I can see coming of this is the price of Chain Lightning going up...
@Endarius:
Fork is better for us. And it sadly isn't quite good enough to make the cut. At least with Fork you can copy an opponents counterspell or other such shenanigans, and the flashback cost on vengeance is too high to really take seriously.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
I'm thinking in get Fork in sideboard against Epic Storm and some storm combos. I have some doubts what happen if we fork Tendrils of Agony? We reply all their ToA more one right?
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
If memory serves, no.
Fork only becomes a copy of the spell on the stack upon resolution. So they cast, storm, you cast, resolve, and have a single copy of ToA on the stack, having not cast the spell itself.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Nope, you just copy the spell. The triggered ability only triggers when you actually cast the spell and with Fork, the copied spell is just placed on the stack.
Arizona players, click above!
MTGDeckBlog - a place for me to dump my deck ideas (mostly Legacy). Some good, some bad, but mainly you decide
Can you answer me one noob question from a beginner, whats's the differences between Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast. I see Yost had 1Pyroblast and 4 REB in sideboard and for me the cards seen the same with another name. REB is better? (Yost had 4) Sorry for a noob question.
Best regards to all.
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
Yost was likely just running the 1 Pyroblast as a 5th REB.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
It has something to do with misdirection I think.
Arizona players, click above!
MTGDeckBlog - a place for me to dump my deck ideas (mostly Legacy). Some good, some bad, but mainly you decide
The REB pyroblast thing is really negligible. I just have 4 pyroblasts and don't own 4 REBs.One is better vs phantasmal image, other is better vs spellskite. neither are things i really side them in for. maybe if painter servant runs spellskite or something then REB is better but it really is six one way half a dozen the other.
Count backwards from 20.
had no problems with lands at all. I've lost a few games off rings getting wasted but most times you can play around it.
killing mystic and having smash in the board has generally been enough. you also have blasts in the board for that matchup.
i had not considered surgical and suppose it is another option. for some reason in my head it hadn't clicked that faerie was an activated ability that could get needled. seems perfectly reasonable to run a split if you're worried about it.
i dont really kill delvers very often. mystics you have bolt and chain lightning for. i'd much rather get 4 damage out of a flame rift than 2 out of the magma jet. scry is not super relevent most the time when you're maximizing your clock as the 2 cards you scry into or out of may not even need to be drawn to have lethal damage.
Count backwards from 20.
Thanks all for the explanation. I read the posts in the firs page and I think I understand. I learn more in the last days in this topic about play with Red then in many years. I'm beginner playing with the new rules and with burn, and if you don't mind I will make some questions to learn more.
Can anyone explain me some of the best choices for the sideboard? And one really thing that make me cry is that I don't want to take any card out. I play a standard deck last weekend with Red and only one time I use the sideboard, and it's against Artifacts. The other cards I look and I think and always keep then all
When I look to Yost deck If I want to put sideboard cards, I think I will remove one or 2 creatures (maybe a mistake) but I can decide with the all other cards of burn. What's the worst? If my opponent only have basic lands is easy, I take price of progress, but if he have a lot of no basic lands it's impossible to take a possible 6 or 8 points damage card. Fireblast maybe one out, but it's my favorite finisher...
Can anyone give me a good advice?
P.s.-sorry for my bad English...
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
Don't worry Teacher, my sig's made me cry too. =) Flores would ask you who's the beatdown? Are you playing a disruptive role, or are you on the offense? Burn tends to be on the offense, but against another fast deck, it may make more sense to add less efficient yet more disruptive cards to slow them down while you whittle away at their life. Otherwise, just add a few of the most powerful options in (e.g. Faerie vs Reanimator) and keep on blasting them.
There's a lot more nuance than that, but in general try thinking about overall goals instead of cards to start. Once you understand the structure of the matchup, the relative value of particular cards may be easier to discern.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.