I prefer the Shard Volley/Fireblast split over the 4th Fireblast myself - actually less taxing on the mana base. I would want to fit Sulfuric Vortex #3 somewhere in your 75 though (perhaps over a Marauder or Ratchet Bomb).
With the MUs you mention, Barbarian Ring seems like it will hurt more than it will help (Wasteland). Let us know how the tourney goes and good luck!
I like the idea of shard volley, but it increased my mulligans, especially with barbarian ring (though they Do have a synergy).
Nothing was more depressing than seeing a fireblast, shard volley & a barbarian ring in my opener (how many times I wished it was a Mtn)
I'd keep magma jet as a 4 of if you decide to keep shard vollys, it's a great way to make sure you have land if you need to prematurely sack em. In fact to be honest, I cant see playing less than 4 magma jet at any time.
I've never felt bad about top decking a Keldon Marauder either.
I'd replace the vollys with the 4th fireblast, +1 fallout, +1 vortex.
Either way, it all really depends on the draws, and to that I say GOOD MOJO TO YOU M8!!!
I look forward to reading your report.
Right now, I think I'm going to go
-1x Keldon Marauders
-2x Barbarian Ring
-1x Ratchet Bomb
+1x Shard Volley
+2 Mountians
+1 Sulfuric Vortex(SB)
I'll see how that plays out in as much practice I can get today, and make further changes. I'm -1x Magma Jet +1x Mountian away from the main-deck build in the primer on the first page of this thread. But, even with 19 Mountains there are times when I top deck into even four or five, and I have to Magma Jet them away...
I run 18 mountains. Drop 1 and +1 jet. You should always at least have 2 lands out by the time you need to finish games. Just be careful not to draw into the all sac hand.
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"Failing to Find" Since March 2010.
Current Capt. of Team "Ju"
I play this:
Standard:
Rotation is coming...
Modern: GGGSTOMPY
ZOO (Goyf-less)
Legacy:
Brewing
EDH:
Too many to name.
I'm not sure but we're trying to keep the "max four 3-cmc spells at the deck" rule. Decide what's better for you and move one of them to sb. You really not want to see 2 mountains + 2 fallouts + 2 vortexes in your opening hand - and that will happen sooner or later.
Thats the truth, I've seen that hand once in a while, but not all that often.
I know I'm going to want to see a fallout at least once when expecting to face aggro decks (he said he'd be expecting Goblin & Merfolk), and 2 never made me feel confident I'd see one. I'd even suggest having a 4th in the sb.
I guess I usually have more land, as the only land sac I use is fireblast, but 4 magma jets facilitate that.
Taking out a goblin lackey or a mana producing elf until you draw out the fallout is way easier than dealing with life gain. Honestly, I think 2 and 2 is the way to go for fallout and vortex. You can't play it til turn three anyway, you've still got a 30% chance of seeing it by then, and if you board in the 3rd vortex it's like 43% or something chance you'll have it by turn 3.
I'm curious if I need 20 mountians to feed the now 4 shard volleys and 3 fireblasts. 19 always seemed like enough land with 3 of each.
The statistical difference between 19 and 20 Mountains is almost nothing - though this works both ways (as in, the difference between 41 and 40 burn spells is just as small). 20 is the optimal number to minimize mulligans, but by a very small margin (see the primer for details).
As for the 3cc slot, about 4 copies is optimal for a t4 goldfish, but real life rarely is one. As long as one of your spells doesn't resolve or hit home, you'll probably finish turn 5 instead, get to untap once more and thus have 3+ more mana. Having a sweeper or Sulfuric Vortex when it matters is probably more important than playing exactly 4 3cc spells, though this depends on the meta of course. Many decks now play 4x Vortex and 4x Lavamancer AND possibly Hellspark Elemental on top of that - now that's pretty mana hungry. I wouldn't worry about 6 or so 3 cmc spells in the main (without Lavamancer).
You really not want to see 2 mountains + 2 fallouts + 2 vortexes in your opening hand - and that will happen sooner or later.
With 3 of each, this will happen less than .1% of the time. 3 cmc 3 cards will happen about 1.6% of the time if you run 6 total. Such hands should probably be mulled in a MU where neither a sweeper nor Sulfuric Vortex is hugely important (depends on the rest of the hand though). Suffice to say, running 6 3-cmc cards won't overcrowd your opener much.
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What are the thoughts on Threaten effect cards in the sideboard? It's not guaranteed damage but if it lands, and of course situational based on the opponent's board, it could be devastating. It's less aggro though and more control based.
What are the thoughts on Threaten effect cards in the sideboard? It's not guaranteed damage but if it lands, and of course situational based on the opponent's board, it could be devastating. It's less aggro though and more control based.
I think it will be hard to make Threaten better than a generic 4-for3 such as Flames of the Blood Hand. It doesn't answer any of the truly big creatures (progenitus, empyrial archangel, iona, emrakul), so you're basically stuck with grabbing 4/5 goyfs or perhaps slightly larger tombstalkers and knight of the relics. Not too useful IMO.
It's a shame though - I'd really like to find something in mono red that could handle all those huge dudes that people cheat into play. Iona especially - but I refuse to run narrow SB cards that only handle her (such as Karakas). Attacking the mechanism still seems like the best option, but there are so many mechanisms around that I sometimes wonder if dealing with the creatures directly wouldn't be more efficient. This appears to require a splash though :/
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wouldn't ensnaring bridge be good against extra big critters?
Yes and no - it stops us taking damage but doesn't solve the general problem of not being able to win through Iona or Empyrial Archangel. On the plus side, it does stop Emrakul from annihilating our mana base, and hoses Progenitus, but these are the not primary "big creature problems" for Burn. We can race Progenitus quite fine, but fold to a resolved Iona.
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Couple Points:
1. I'm debating -1x Magma Jet and -1x Keldon Marauders. Not sure what for though.
2. I find threshold is hard to get for barbarian ring, don't really want to run fetches to feed it, but it's also saved me in some circumstances.
3. The Faerie Macabre is for Reanimator, which is certain to be at the tournament on Saturday. I'm also expecting Goblins, Merfolk, CounterTop, Lands, and possibly storm combo.
Any suggestions would be great, thanks guys.
almost identical to my Burn deck
-2 barbaric rings +2 mountains
-1 magma jet +shard volley;
Sb is almost identical too, except that i have storm hate in sb
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“And if at first you don't succeed / Then dust yourself off and try again / You can dust it off and try again, try again.”
:symw::symb:Steel Wb Weenie
Sorry if this has already been gone over, but what do the experienced pilots think of Slagstorm as a possible sweeper? Even against the gold standard sweepers that are Flamebreak and Volcanic Fallout it has its bonuses as unlike Flamebreak it can hit flyers, and unlike either sweeper you can choose to either hit the dome or creatures. While in most builds, I think Fallout gets the nod (instant speed FTW) Slagstorm could be nice in builds that are a little creature heavier, (particularly those running the Lavamancer) or when your in a race and can't afford to clock yourself to the dome. Idk what are folks thoughts?
Tournament Report:
Round one, vs Reanimator
G1: I win the roll. I drop Goblin Guide, swing and pass, he goes dark rit, buried alive and drops three fatties in his yard, one of which is Iona, he passes. I swing, play a land, lava spike, pass. He goes Reanimate, targeting Iona. I respond Lightning bolt, fireblast, and reanimate kills him.
G2: I sideboard in 3x Faerie Macabre and 3x Red Elemental Blast, taking out 2x Sulfuric Vortex, 3x Volcanic Fallout, and 1x Shard Volley. I did not see a faerie even after a Mulligan. So, with him on the play, he draws and passes turn discarding sphinx of the steel wind. I drop a goblin guide and sing, but his second turn he Exhumes and I think we all know how that ended.
G3: Still can't find any grave yard hate, but I did manage to open with a Red Elemental Blast. Turn one I suspend a rift bolt, and pass. He plays a lotus petal and passes. I hit him with the rift bolt, and then play a land, drop a guide, swing and pass. He cracks the petal for blue and plays careful study, I respond with REB. I think he cried a little inside, and passes turn. I top deck another REB, swing with Guide, play a land, and drop Marauders and pass. He plays underground sea, careful study, and I respond with my second REB. The game was mine pretty quickly after that.
Match count 1-0
Round two, vs UW Counter Top
This was the hardest match of the day. This guy is a friend of mine, and I swear he built this deck around playing against me. He put CoP:RED in the sideboard. Who plays that? >_<
G1: I win the roll. I drop guide, swing, and pass. He plays a land, and a top. Passes. I swing again, play my land and burn for three. For the rest of this game, I keep one land untapped for daze, and manage to burn him out in four turns.
G2: I sideboard out 4x Rift Bolt, 2x Vortex, 2x Fallout, and side in 3x REB, 3x Pithing Needle, 2x Smash to Smithereens. Turn one, he goes land, chrome mox, counterbalance. I cry a little inside. I go pithing needle? he reveals the top, and in seconds he had a lock on me that I did not escape from.
G3: I switch my Pithing Needles for Ratchet Bombs, and charge in with a Goblin guide. He goes turn one land, top, chrome mox. Turn two I swing, and then I play ratchet bomb. He tops looking for daze, but it resolves. I pass. He plays a polluted delta, and passes, EOT I put bomb on 1. I play another land, swing and chain him, passing turn. He tops, and then fetches, and tops again at the end of my turn. On his turn he brainstorms, leaving a plains untapped, and then passes turn EOT bomb on 2. I play my fourth land. swing with guide, and pass. EOT, he taps plains and chrome mox to play disenchant on ratchet bomb. I respond, tap two to smash to smithereens his chrome mox. He looks a little surprised, but I maintain priority and add two mana, fireblast, and fireblast. He reveals a daze, and shakes my hand.
Match count 2-0
Round three, vs Living Plane
Honestly, I've never seen this deck before. I know this guy was a solid competitive player, and didn't make any mistakes, but I have no idea how his deck worked because goblin guide burned him out before his deck ever went off. in game two I responded to him playing Living Plane with three burn spells dealing nine damage, leaving him at one with a tapped Marauder with one counter on my field. I got it 2-0 pretty quickly.
Match count 3-0
Round four, vs Tezzeret Affinity
G1: He Powered out some big dudes, and if I had one more land I could have beat him but I only managed two lands, he was at 12 and I was holding a two bolts, a fire blast and a shard volley. Just couldn't get there before the fatties killed me.
G2: I sideboard out vortex, and fallout for 3x pithing needle and 2x smash to smithereens. I won the race before he ever saw Tezzeret, he may have hit me once with a big dude, but I just aimed for the dome.
G3: Once I top decked the price of progress, I knew this game was over. He powered into Tezzeret, made one of his lands a 5/5, but on my turn I put a needle on Tezzeret, and let him play some more lands before my PoP hit for 8, and fireblast finished the job.
Match Count 4-0
So, I was 4-0 going into finals, but had to face the dreaded CounterTop, that had CoP:R in the damned sideboard. I swear he built that deck just to beat me. It did not help that I top decked NINE, YES NINE mountains in a row in game two. I got eliminated by him, and took a 4-1 third place. If I had to face anyone else first in the Top four, I would have easily gone to the top two, and possibly played against someone else for first. That's the way it goes.
Total for the day, 4-1, 3rd place. I won $20 store credit, so, at least that's something.
Getting hated into oblivion by white is just something that red has to accept sometimes. It's unfortunate and something I don't really like about the game (Ratchet Bomb helps a lot now though).
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Standard: UR Guttersnipe & Talrand
Modern: U Merfolk (in progress)
Legacy: RBurn
Nice report DL, it's good to see Burn still placing decently after all these years
I'm gonna have to get down to Phillies last real shop and represent one of these weeks.
General question, anyone ever whack a Progenitus with an Anarchy? I did last week, & it felt great!!
Good show devil locke! Your MD is within 2 cards from what I currently play It's a shame you didn't get to use the Macabres, but knowing your field it was probably the right SB choice to run. I've thought about SB strategies vs. reanimator in the past and I concluded that boarding out Vortex was a mistake due to Sphinx. Would you agree?
Also, Ratchet Bombs > Pithing Needle against CounterTop, as you discovered I also think boarding out Vortex in that MU is a mistake - you should have brought in the 3rd Vortex instead.
Re: Corwin of Amber's question about Volcanic Fallout, I wouldn't jump to conclusions from these pairings. Yes, it got boarded out a lot, but that's because he didn't run into a single Merfolk, Goblins, Ichorid, D&T, Landstill, EtW combo etc. And it's not exactly bad g1 against CounterTop either.
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So, when I showed up for T2 today, there were not enough people, someone suggested a 6 person non-sanctioned Legacy Tournament, we all paid in $5 and I crushed my way to the top again:
Round 1, vs Merfolk
I mostly just aimed for the dome, and played around daze. The only games I won, were the games that I saw fallout. I got it 2-1
Round 2, vs Goblins
This guy was not playing his own deck, but he still played creatures and swung. I was frustrated when I topped decked a fourth mountain instead of a burn spell, but then I top decked a second fireblast. He was at 9 and bounced my marauders to swing lethal. I hit him with double fireblast.
Round 3, vs Goblins
So much goblins. This guy was a five year Goblin vet, and he had a mana base to prove it. Volcanic Fallout saved me yet again, on his turn four game two he dropped five goblins into play, in addition to the two already there. The faces of the people around when I dropped volcanic fallout, just total horror. Price of progress scored 6 points in both games.
Nice report, man, you were also a little bit lucky I have a few questions for you:
a) How does Volcanic Fallout at main work for you? I played 3 Flamebreaks and I dropped them after a second tournament.
b) What about Ratchet Bomb? I also have 3 at sb, but i didn't use them, yet (boarded in but they didn't came).
c) And finally, Faerie Macabre - how they are helping you? Just asking cos i don't play any grave hate.
As you can see from today, Volcanic Fallout does not belong anywhere else but in the main-deck. I didn't play against zoo, but Ratchet Bomb is the only answer to enchantments. It is a house against zoo. Turn one 3/3 Kird Ape, Turn two 3/3 Wild Nacatl, ratchet bomb for one will go places fallout cannot. If you don't pack grave hate, you've never played against goyf or reanimate. it hurts. What grave hate you use is dependent on your meta, but vs reanimator faerie macabre is the best option unless you want to get run over by iona.
Good show devil locke! Your MD is within 2 cards from what I currently play It's a shame you didn't get to use the Macabres, but knowing your field it was probably the right SB choice to run. I've thought about SB strategies vs. reanimator in the past and I concluded that boarding out Vortex was a mistake due to Sphinx. Would you agree?
Also, Ratchet Bombs > Pithing Needle against CounterTop, as you discovered I also think boarding out Vortex in that MU is a mistake - you should have brought in the 3rd Vortex instead.
Re: Corwin of Amber's question about Volcanic Fallout, I wouldn't jump to conclusions from these pairings. Yes, it got boarded out a lot, but that's because he didn't run into a single Merfolk, Goblins, Ichorid, D&T, Landstill, EtW combo etc. And it's not exactly bad g1 against CounterTop either.
Honestly, with reanimator I assumed that Iona would hit before I could even play any three drops so I figured I better get in with the cheapest mana consumption possible. I suppose I could have had a chance against the Sphinx if I had played it.
With counter top, I was thinking that on the draw I would need to hit a turn 1 needle because I wouldn't get the two mana to play the ratchet bomb. I assumed that once I was on the play again, I would have the extra turn to cast the bomb. Oddly, the counter top deck did not run any life gain, and I was around when he built it. Dropping vortex with a circle of protection out would have just killed me.
Hello.
I have joined MTG Salvation purely to point out I am stunned that 130 pages about BURN could exist in one thread. Wow. . .
People that used to play, used to call me "the old Warhorse".
I won my first tournament playing burn 15 years ago. I have ALL of the cards listed in the primer. I agree with pretty much everything in the original post. That in itself is more than a little unusual.
I think the term "Instant" is not focussed on enough. I think Incinerate is a good baseline card, not just because of 3 damage, but also because it says the magic word INSTANT.
Oddly enough, when I built my first "legacy" burn deck, 2 weeks ago, incinerate was something I was focussing on. Well, better than Incerate actually.
I pulled second in my only Legacy tournament so far. (15 Players, Got beaten by Dredge. My, what a lot of funky cards work together in Dredge!)
Unusual cards that I have not noticed so far. . .
Hidetsuguru's Second Rite (awesome 1 off from the board. . .
Furnace of Rath
Forgotton Cave (currently good enough to play)
Sonic Burst
Sonic Seizure
Furnace of Rath is not your average 4 cost bad spell.
Furnace, Fireblast + Fireblast is a quality turn 4 take 16.
Hidetsuguru's Second Rite is the most fun spell in Magic to successfully cast.
It got me a warning for being cast too enthusiasticly.
TEN damage is worthy of consideration. Even if only briefly.
I reckon the basics can get a little trodden on.
I reckon some of the Bad Cards can be stronger than the Good one listed.
But it takes some practice, and requires cards with synergy.
Saying X is Better than Y is easy when comparing Shock and Lightning Bolt.
Saying Incinerate is better than Shrapnell Blast is much more difficult.
5 damage at instant speed is hard to ignore.
Sharpnell, Fireblast, Bolt is 12 points on turn 3
Obviously, having a Blast and no artifact is a problem, and does sometimes happen, but it is a long way from fatal, and often just comes good. mine has slightly more ways to control draw, and problem cards.
The reasons stated for why Red should play just mountains are mostly a fear of Wastelands.
Shrapnell Blast is surprising good as an answer.
Turn 2, I play a Great Furnace, you wasteland it, I sacrifice it and you take 5.
This is good times for the Red Player.
This is not how the Wastelands was hoping that exchange would go.
Urza's Bauble is also a bad card. It just is. But Shrapnell Blast just doesn't work with only great Furnaces. And Bauble does have some advantages that are worth noting. Reaching over and grabbing at their hand is intrusive and rude. Nice people dont do that. Knowing about that card can actually help, sometimes. Filling the graveyard as a zero cost almost cantrip is fine to.
The actual plan with the Bauble is to just cantrip. If a blast needs the bauble to be kept, sure.
The back up plan for bauble is to be used with the blasts. together that works out as 2 cards, 2 mana, 5 damage, INSTANT. not bad as a back up plan. Shrapnell Blast is quite similar to shard Volley, when sacing a furnace, it just costs 1 more, and does an extra 2 damage.
Barbarian Ring does suffer from Wasteland, but it is burn in a land! And it taps for red, and it comes into play untapped. It does obviously clash with Fireblast. Since I am playing far less Mountains, the full set of 4 Fireblasts is not really justified, 3 is far more effective. The second Fireblast is mostly a dead card, for me. Getting to 4 mountains can be a stretch for many other Burn Decks too, this is not just my problem.
Barbarian Ring is partly responsible for lots of the other changes.
It does stuff, like killing protection from red creatures, with Pariah.
Ring interacts with ALL the other changes I play, and likes them.
The traditional reason for not playing Comes into Play Tapped lands is because they bite you when you need the mana now. And fair enough too. But not getting the land at all will kill you quicker, and more dead. For this reason I like playing some Forgotton caves. Playing land that does not tap for R mana is much harder to justify.
Mountain + 6 spells should be a mullingan.
Mountain + 5 spells + Forgotten cave is a keeper.
Ball Lightning is a hammer to the head. It wins games. If it doesn't win the game, it will draw a response. Ball causes lots of damage from a single source. Ball Lightning causes players Fear!
It allows for massive comebacks. It forces players to never tap out.
The last cards I play that you guys don't is Sonic Seizure.
It covers all of the other questionable calls.
It is a remarkable Clean up card.
It covers too much land, and too little, and too many dead cards. ( POP, Ball Lightning, Shrapnell Blast)
My version of burn is very much more interactive in both the cards and players.
My cards interact and help each other in a way that "take 3" just dont.
I think I take less damage than most lists here too, only my Barabian Rings hurt me.
Forcing the opponent to actually do the damage to kill me can easily buy an extra turn.
From the primer. . . "With an optimum 20 lands, mulligans will still happen about 50% of the time,". most of you seem to be playing 19 land, but eh.
I mulligan far less than that. Partly I am greedy, but also I am playing 21 land, and baubles.
And my casting costs are slightly lower than most too, I think.
Wasteland is a real problem for lots of Burn decks, and forces a clean manabase of Mountains, and maybe fetches. That really aint for me.
I have lowered my mana base to 21/56
Most of the ones here are 19/60
Mine = 0.375
Most others = 0.3166666
Difference = 0.05833
Difference x 60 = 3.500
Assuming the Baubles are always cycled, that is 3.5 more land for wastelands to eat.
If I am OK with them using Wastelands to kill my land, both players are at less mana for longer. That is just fine by me too !
I do not like Goblin Guide.
It has been far too generous, and then dead.
What I played (2nd from 15). . .OddBall Red
2 jackal pup
2 keldon marauders
4 ball lightning
3 urza's bauble
4 lightning bolt
4 lava spike
3 chain lightning
4 shrapnel blast
3 magma jet
2 sonic burst
3 price of progress
3 fireblast
11 mountain
4 barbarian ring
4 great furnace
4 forgotten cave
sideboard:
1 artifact blast
1 grim lavamancer
1 magus of the scroll
1 obstinate familiar
1 slith firewalker
1 cave-in
1 flamebreak
1 pryoblast
1 scald
1 pulse of the forge
1 ensnaring bridge
1 ankh of mishra
1 tsabo's web
2 smash to smithereens
I am much happier with the below list, now that I have some clue of what is out there. . .
My Current list. . .OddBall Red. . .
4 lightning bolt
4 lava spike
4 chain lightning
3 rift Bolt
4 shrapnel blast
3 magma jet
2 sonic burst
3 price of progress
3 fireblast
2 keldon marauders
3 ball lightning
4 urza's bauble
11 mountain
4 barbarian ring
4 great furnace
2 forgotten cave
sideboard:
1 grim lavamancer
1 flamebreak
1 price of progress
1 ankh of mishra
1 Ball lightning
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Anarchy
4 Tormod's Crypt
My list has a much higher damage maximum, than most.
My numbers are just bigger. Things like Shrapnell Blast and Sonic Burst do 5 & 4, not 3 & 3. And as INSTANTS. I do not like lava spike, chain lightning & rift Bolt but they are the right choices, even if they are SO SLOW.
Ball Lightning is easier to dodge than a bolt, but it does do more.
And Haste & Trample are good at dealing damage.
Even with a blocker it is still doing damage, and killing the blocker. Flamewave just dont have take 6 as a back up play.
The Barbarian Rings are just more damage that you guys mostly do not play with.
Mine is a sophisticated Burn Deck, Oddball certainly aint quite like yours.
Played the above deck, went 1 win 3 losses.
1/2 (play mistake lost a game)
1/2 (play mistake lost a game)
1/2 (SNAFU, mistakes a plenty)
2/0
Maybe next time I can remember to actually use the scry effect off Magma jet, as well as using it at the right time. Bolting the player on turn 1 cause I guessed wrong about their deck. Then I died to a Lodestone Golem. and I sideboarded in ONE Anarchy, and missed the right time to play it. And, Waiting until the Pridemage has attacked is not a good idea when you are holding a Magma jet.
So, next time I am planning on playing something very similar, but with a better brain.
Anarchy is too narrow for such an open field.
Tormod's crypt is also too narrow.
I think I prefer the wide open sideboard I used first time.
Going down to 3 Shrapnell blasts seems right. Maybe a couple of other 1-2 card changes.
I so want a 2nd Rite to fit back in. No Mana burn really helps.
You have the Great Furnace as your 3rd land but you dont have Shrapnel. Your opponent Wastelands you and now you're down to one land. Luckily you also have Urza's Bauble. But now you draw Sonic Burst, and you use that, randomly discarding the Bauble. Then you draw Shrapnel, and once again you don't have an artifact to use for it.
Now if your Bursts, Baubles, and Blasts were all Bolts, and your Great Furnace was a Mountain, you could cast all your spells without your plan running into itself.
OK. Um... Look.
"You have the Great Furnace as your 3rd land but you dont have Shrapnel."
Cool.
I have gone take 3, 3 times. & you used a fetch.
I play my third land, cast a Ball Lightning, and Fireblast you to DEATH !
1-2 cards spare.
Next game?
"Your opponent Wastelands you and now you're down to one land."
OK. But aren't you dead already?
My opponent has lost 2 land, and I am playing Burn, with way more land & Baubles. Seriously LOTS more. And when I draw lots more I can Cycle them. Or get my opponent to wasteland them.
And ALL their little mana dudes are dead. Maybe they have mana rocks. not common though. Not feeling dead. Is it my go again?
"Luckily you also have Urza's Bauble."
Cool!
" But now you draw Sonic Burst, and you use that, randomly discarding the Bauble."
Um. No Dude.
I play the Bauble for ZERO.
This is kinda hard to ignore. If I want to discard the Bauble, I spoze I could keep it in my hand. But if a Blank card is better than a coloured in one, sure, I Spoze. I mean, why not play it, use it, and bang in their upkeep?
And, Why am I using the last card first?
Sonic gets used last, or if truely desperate in emergencies.
If I have ONE burn spell and I need to deal 4 points to a planeswalker, Burst is good. Burst is also good as the clean up card. If I draw too many land even after the cyclers, I can convert a blank into fuel. If I draw any of the problems you guys are pointing out, The burst can be used at the end to clear a blockage.
"Then you draw Shrapnel, and once again you don't have an artifact to use for it."
Um, sure, but I am far more concerned about 1 land.
I did some math way back in page 90, I am playing a WAY bigger percentage.
if you subtract the wastelands you wanna type about from my total, it is the same as yours. Provided I accept that the Baubles should be used to draw extra cards, not as Fuel.
The game you are describing will still go Bolt, Bolt for quite a while.
And the second land does come.
My deck is different to yours.
Just is. I have those cards.
I have played your deck. It works.
Hi Kiddies. I prefer my deck. I won my first tournament with burn 15 years ago. :0
Homer Moment . . Mmmmm..... Varchilds War Riders......
And, How do you get away with complaining about the speed of Ball Lightning !
I play Ball Lightning over Sulfuric Vortex or metamorph.
Turn 3 kills seem Pretty Unlikely when playing cards like vortex.
And sure, if you draw the perfect amounts of burn, land, and no opponent interference. Take 3! works a treat.
Out here in the real world life can get a lot more tricky.
This deck is amazingly stable. I have played a whole lot of Oddball combo. Weird Censorific. Combo Burn Red is just So me.
Because your builds are much simpler (Take 3!), they do not have anywhere near the same damage potential. Mine can easily get to 30 MUCH faster than yours. This is because I am expecting to have to interact with something that is not just their life total. But I am completely happy not to.
And, I really dont think "you" understand if you think PoP, then Ball requires 5 mana. PoP is an instant, if you counter it, in your turn, I get to untap and cast Ball Lightning. If you have a zero cost counter, good for you. Maybe this is turn 4 and I pay for your daze. Or you can only counter Non creatures / one costs / two costs / or Instants with your counter.
Magic Geek, here's the thing. Look at how many pages of discussion this thread has, count the number of people telling you the same thing. I mean, you came here for advice on why you were losing to such and such, but instead you've just argued your points, the ones that are causing you to lose.
Yes, the thread has a whole lotta posts.Yes, the primer is good.
Yes, I have played those cards.
The only thing suggested so far that sorta works in Hellspark, and that aint great.
As far as I can tell, standard burn (take 3!) is actually far WORSE against Goyf/Hymn goodstuff.
Topdecking 3 a turn is just not gunna make it.
It's a GREAT resource for people looking to get in to burn. You probably shouldn't be straying from the basics until you've gotten a good grasp on this deck (yes it is possible to be good with Burn, it's not all auto-pilot).
This seriously made me laugh.
How many Arabian Mountains are you playing?
A couple of years ago, I realised I had been to more Nationals than that Judge was Old !
Wow, your attitude changed 180 degrees. If your deck is so perfect, get out there and win some tournaments with it! Thank you for enlightening us with your ideas; there is no need to shove them down our throats.
Big NO on that one.
I am not shoving anything down your throat. I barely know You!
I posted my list because I was explicitly asked to.
It aint the same as yours, I know that, you know that.
Mine is FAR more complex, and harder to play.
& I would love to be winning more Tournaments with it.
Dredge clubbed me on turn 4 of the final. (hence lots of Tormods)
In the next, I lost 2 rounds to Hymn /Goyf, the deck I have been asking for suggestions about. So far the only good advice is Hellspark, and get lucky with a worse deck.
Missing Fireblast and Flame Rift. I found his choice of Flame Rift over Marauders interesting. Marauders hasn't been completely spectacular for me, but its high potential damage has won me some games. The problem is, so often it's either removed or chump blocked, and it's not the greatest top deck in the world. Flame Rift is more consistent and is a much better top deck, but I definitely fear seeing it against decks that also run on a faster (damage) clock, especially in multiples. I'm really considering running it in the 5k this upcoming weekend.
I was also interested in his choice of mass blue hate. I understand Countertop being a bad match-up, but Shusher/Needle/Artifact Hate gets the job done. And for High Tide, Pyrostatic Pillar is just as effective, in addition to not having to pray to never see ANT.
The way I see Flame Rift is there is no way any deck can put the same clock as you this deck can (save Goblin Lackey plays). I mean the Burn deck is basically an all-in stratagy anyway.
Far too many times have I played against aggro and been below 4 life when I won. drawing Flame Rift would have cost me the win. I think it's bad, unless there are no aggro decks in your meta.
I missed up on the post, but the result was the same.
I heard a story from the tourney stream that a group of players from Arizona were playing the exact same Burn deck at the tourney.
I like Figure of Destiny, now I wish i didn't sell my Figures now. I can get some before I go to the Grand Prix Trail next week, but getting Flame Rifts might be harder.
I
Re: Question has anyone tried Pyrostatic Pillar in board?
I like the idea of shard volley, but it increased my mulligans, especially with barbarian ring (though they Do have a synergy).
Nothing was more depressing than seeing a fireblast, shard volley & a barbarian ring in my opener (how many times I wished it was a Mtn)
I'd keep magma jet as a 4 of if you decide to keep shard vollys, it's a great way to make sure you have land if you need to prematurely sack em. In fact to be honest, I cant see playing less than 4 magma jet at any time.
I've never felt bad about top decking a Keldon Marauder either.
I'd replace the vollys with the 4th fireblast, +1 fallout, +1 vortex.
Either way, it all really depends on the draws, and to that I say GOOD MOJO TO YOU M8!!!
I look forward to reading your report.
-1x Keldon Marauders
-2x Barbarian Ring
-1x Ratchet Bomb
+1x Shard Volley
+2 Mountians
+1 Sulfuric Vortex(SB)
I'll see how that plays out in as much practice I can get today, and make further changes. I'm -1x Magma Jet +1x Mountian away from the main-deck build in the primer on the first page of this thread. But, even with 19 Mountains there are times when I top deck into even four or five, and I have to Magma Jet them away...
Current Capt. of Team "Ju"
I play this:
Rotation is coming...
Modern: GGGSTOMPY
ZOO (Goyf-less)
Legacy:
Brewing
EDH:
Too many to name.
Thats the truth, I've seen that hand once in a while, but not all that often.
I know I'm going to want to see a fallout at least once when expecting to face aggro decks (he said he'd be expecting Goblin & Merfolk), and 2 never made me feel confident I'd see one. I'd even suggest having a 4th in the sb.
I guess I usually have more land, as the only land sac I use is fireblast, but 4 magma jets facilitate that.
I'm curious if I need 20 mountians to feed the now 4 shard volleys and 3 fireblasts. 19 always seemed like enough land with 3 of each.
As for the 3cc slot, about 4 copies is optimal for a t4 goldfish, but real life rarely is one. As long as one of your spells doesn't resolve or hit home, you'll probably finish turn 5 instead, get to untap once more and thus have 3+ more mana. Having a sweeper or Sulfuric Vortex when it matters is probably more important than playing exactly 4 3cc spells, though this depends on the meta of course. Many decks now play 4x Vortex and 4x Lavamancer AND possibly Hellspark Elemental on top of that - now that's pretty mana hungry. I wouldn't worry about 6 or so 3 cmc spells in the main (without Lavamancer).
With 3 of each, this will happen less than .1% of the time. 3 cmc 3 cards will happen about 1.6% of the time if you run 6 total. Such hands should probably be mulled in a MU where neither a sweeper nor Sulfuric Vortex is hugely important (depends on the rest of the hand though). Suffice to say, running 6 3-cmc cards won't overcrowd your opener much.
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I think it will be hard to make Threaten better than a generic 4-for3 such as Flames of the Blood Hand. It doesn't answer any of the truly big creatures (progenitus, empyrial archangel, iona, emrakul), so you're basically stuck with grabbing 4/5 goyfs or perhaps slightly larger tombstalkers and knight of the relics. Not too useful IMO.
It's a shame though - I'd really like to find something in mono red that could handle all those huge dudes that people cheat into play. Iona especially - but I refuse to run narrow SB cards that only handle her (such as Karakas). Attacking the mechanism still seems like the best option, but there are so many mechanisms around that I sometimes wonder if dealing with the creatures directly wouldn't be more efficient. This appears to require a splash though :/
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Yes and no - it stops us taking damage but doesn't solve the general problem of not being able to win through Iona or Empyrial Archangel. On the plus side, it does stop Emrakul from annihilating our mana base, and hoses Progenitus, but these are the not primary "big creature problems" for Burn. We can race Progenitus quite fine, but fold to a resolved Iona.
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almost identical to my Burn deck
-2 barbaric rings +2 mountains
-1 magma jet +shard volley;
Sb is almost identical too, except that i have storm hate in sb
:symw::symb:Steel Wb Weenie
19 Mountain
Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
3 Keldon Marauders
Bolts
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
3 Magma Jet
3 Volcanic Fallout
2 Sulfuric Vortex
Finishers
3 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast
4 Shard Volley
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Pithing Needle
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Sulfuric Vortex
Tournament Report:
Round one, vs Reanimator
G1: I win the roll. I drop Goblin Guide, swing and pass, he goes dark rit, buried alive and drops three fatties in his yard, one of which is Iona, he passes. I swing, play a land, lava spike, pass. He goes Reanimate, targeting Iona. I respond Lightning bolt, fireblast, and reanimate kills him.
G2: I sideboard in 3x Faerie Macabre and 3x Red Elemental Blast, taking out 2x Sulfuric Vortex, 3x Volcanic Fallout, and 1x Shard Volley. I did not see a faerie even after a Mulligan. So, with him on the play, he draws and passes turn discarding sphinx of the steel wind. I drop a goblin guide and sing, but his second turn he Exhumes and I think we all know how that ended.
G3: Still can't find any grave yard hate, but I did manage to open with a Red Elemental Blast. Turn one I suspend a rift bolt, and pass. He plays a lotus petal and passes. I hit him with the rift bolt, and then play a land, drop a guide, swing and pass. He cracks the petal for blue and plays careful study, I respond with REB. I think he cried a little inside, and passes turn. I top deck another REB, swing with Guide, play a land, and drop Marauders and pass. He plays underground sea, careful study, and I respond with my second REB. The game was mine pretty quickly after that.
Match count 1-0
Round two, vs UW Counter Top
This was the hardest match of the day. This guy is a friend of mine, and I swear he built this deck around playing against me. He put CoP:RED in the sideboard. Who plays that? >_<
G1: I win the roll. I drop guide, swing, and pass. He plays a land, and a top. Passes. I swing again, play my land and burn for three. For the rest of this game, I keep one land untapped for daze, and manage to burn him out in four turns.
G2: I sideboard out 4x Rift Bolt, 2x Vortex, 2x Fallout, and side in 3x REB, 3x Pithing Needle, 2x Smash to Smithereens. Turn one, he goes land, chrome mox, counterbalance. I cry a little inside. I go pithing needle? he reveals the top, and in seconds he had a lock on me that I did not escape from.
G3: I switch my Pithing Needles for Ratchet Bombs, and charge in with a Goblin guide. He goes turn one land, top, chrome mox. Turn two I swing, and then I play ratchet bomb. He tops looking for daze, but it resolves. I pass. He plays a polluted delta, and passes, EOT I put bomb on 1. I play another land, swing and chain him, passing turn. He tops, and then fetches, and tops again at the end of my turn. On his turn he brainstorms, leaving a plains untapped, and then passes turn EOT bomb on 2. I play my fourth land. swing with guide, and pass. EOT, he taps plains and chrome mox to play disenchant on ratchet bomb. I respond, tap two to smash to smithereens his chrome mox. He looks a little surprised, but I maintain priority and add two mana, fireblast, and fireblast. He reveals a daze, and shakes my hand.
Match count 2-0
Round three, vs Living Plane
Honestly, I've never seen this deck before. I know this guy was a solid competitive player, and didn't make any mistakes, but I have no idea how his deck worked because goblin guide burned him out before his deck ever went off. in game two I responded to him playing Living Plane with three burn spells dealing nine damage, leaving him at one with a tapped Marauder with one counter on my field. I got it 2-0 pretty quickly.
Match count 3-0
Round four, vs Tezzeret Affinity
G1: He Powered out some big dudes, and if I had one more land I could have beat him but I only managed two lands, he was at 12 and I was holding a two bolts, a fire blast and a shard volley. Just couldn't get there before the fatties killed me.
G2: I sideboard out vortex, and fallout for 3x pithing needle and 2x smash to smithereens. I won the race before he ever saw Tezzeret, he may have hit me once with a big dude, but I just aimed for the dome.
G3: Once I top decked the price of progress, I knew this game was over. He powered into Tezzeret, made one of his lands a 5/5, but on my turn I put a needle on Tezzeret, and let him play some more lands before my PoP hit for 8, and fireblast finished the job.
Match Count 4-0
So, I was 4-0 going into finals, but had to face the dreaded CounterTop, that had CoP:R in the damned sideboard. I swear he built that deck just to beat me. It did not help that I top decked NINE, YES NINE mountains in a row in game two. I got eliminated by him, and took a 4-1 third place. If I had to face anyone else first in the Top four, I would have easily gone to the top two, and possibly played against someone else for first. That's the way it goes.
Total for the day, 4-1, 3rd place. I won $20 store credit, so, at least that's something.
Getting hated into oblivion by white is just something that red has to accept sometimes. It's unfortunate and something I don't really like about the game (Ratchet Bomb helps a lot now though).
Modern: U Merfolk (in progress)
Legacy: RBurn
I'm gonna have to get down to Phillies last real shop and represent one of these weeks.
General question, anyone ever whack a Progenitus with an Anarchy? I did last week, & it felt great!!
Also, Ratchet Bombs > Pithing Needle against CounterTop, as you discovered I also think boarding out Vortex in that MU is a mistake - you should have brought in the 3rd Vortex instead.
Re: Corwin of Amber's question about Volcanic Fallout, I wouldn't jump to conclusions from these pairings. Yes, it got boarded out a lot, but that's because he didn't run into a single Merfolk, Goblins, Ichorid, D&T, Landstill, EtW combo etc. And it's not exactly bad g1 against CounterTop either.
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Round 1, vs Merfolk
I mostly just aimed for the dome, and played around daze. The only games I won, were the games that I saw fallout. I got it 2-1
Round 2, vs Goblins
This guy was not playing his own deck, but he still played creatures and swung. I was frustrated when I topped decked a fourth mountain instead of a burn spell, but then I top decked a second fireblast. He was at 9 and bounced my marauders to swing lethal. I hit him with double fireblast.
Round 3, vs Goblins
So much goblins. This guy was a five year Goblin vet, and he had a mana base to prove it. Volcanic Fallout saved me yet again, on his turn four game two he dropped five goblins into play, in addition to the two already there. The faces of the people around when I dropped volcanic fallout, just total horror. Price of progress scored 6 points in both games.
Match count 3-0
Total for the weekend, 7-1
As you can see from today, Volcanic Fallout does not belong anywhere else but in the main-deck. I didn't play against zoo, but Ratchet Bomb is the only answer to enchantments. It is a house against zoo. Turn one 3/3 Kird Ape, Turn two 3/3 Wild Nacatl, ratchet bomb for one will go places fallout cannot. If you don't pack grave hate, you've never played against goyf or reanimate. it hurts. What grave hate you use is dependent on your meta, but vs reanimator faerie macabre is the best option unless you want to get run over by iona.
Honestly, with reanimator I assumed that Iona would hit before I could even play any three drops so I figured I better get in with the cheapest mana consumption possible. I suppose I could have had a chance against the Sphinx if I had played it.
With counter top, I was thinking that on the draw I would need to hit a turn 1 needle because I wouldn't get the two mana to play the ratchet bomb. I assumed that once I was on the play again, I would have the extra turn to cast the bomb. Oddly, the counter top deck did not run any life gain, and I was around when he built it. Dropping vortex with a circle of protection out would have just killed me.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Yeah. Patrick Sullivan was the guy. He had a Feature Match first round, it featured Figure of Destiny. I can't wait until the decklist comes up.
Re: Got the Decklist
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightning
9 Mountains
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarns
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Pyroblast
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Searing Blaze
3 Smash to Smithereens
I have never seen a turn 1 kill at an SCG Legacy open, that is, until today. That storm deck was nuts.
O_o Now I'm excited to see what new burn decks will use. No mass removal? No fireblasts? Surprised to see 21 lands too.
I have joined MTG Salvation purely to point out I am stunned that 130 pages about BURN could exist in one thread. Wow. . .
People that used to play, used to call me "the old Warhorse".
I won my first tournament playing burn 15 years ago. I have ALL of the cards listed in the primer. I agree with pretty much everything in the original post. That in itself is more than a little unusual.
I think the term "Instant" is not focussed on enough. I think Incinerate is a good baseline card, not just because of 3 damage, but also because it says the magic word INSTANT.
Oddly enough, when I built my first "legacy" burn deck, 2 weeks ago, incinerate was something I was focussing on. Well, better than Incerate actually.
I pulled second in my only Legacy tournament so far. (15 Players, Got beaten by Dredge. My, what a lot of funky cards work together in Dredge!)
Unusual cards that I have not noticed so far. . .
Hidetsuguru's Second Rite (awesome 1 off from the board. . .
Furnace of Rath
Forgotton Cave (currently good enough to play)
Sonic Burst
Sonic Seizure
Furnace of Rath is not your average 4 cost bad spell.
Furnace, Fireblast + Fireblast is a quality turn 4 take 16.
Hidetsuguru's Second Rite is the most fun spell in Magic to successfully cast.
It got me a warning for being cast too enthusiasticly.
TEN damage is worthy of consideration. Even if only briefly.
I reckon the basics can get a little trodden on.
I reckon some of the Bad Cards can be stronger than the Good one listed.
But it takes some practice, and requires cards with synergy.
Saying X is Better than Y is easy when comparing Shock and Lightning Bolt.
Saying Incinerate is better than Shrapnell Blast is much more difficult.
5 damage at instant speed is hard to ignore.
Sharpnell, Fireblast, Bolt is 12 points on turn 3
Obviously, having a Blast and no artifact is a problem, and does sometimes happen, but it is a long way from fatal, and often just comes good. mine has slightly more ways to control draw, and problem cards.
The reasons stated for why Red should play just mountains are mostly a fear of Wastelands.
Shrapnell Blast is surprising good as an answer.
Turn 2, I play a Great Furnace, you wasteland it, I sacrifice it and you take 5.
This is good times for the Red Player.
This is not how the Wastelands was hoping that exchange would go.
Urza's Bauble is also a bad card. It just is. But Shrapnell Blast just doesn't work with only great Furnaces. And Bauble does have some advantages that are worth noting. Reaching over and grabbing at their hand is intrusive and rude. Nice people dont do that. Knowing about that card can actually help, sometimes. Filling the graveyard as a zero cost almost cantrip is fine to.
The actual plan with the Bauble is to just cantrip. If a blast needs the bauble to be kept, sure.
The back up plan for bauble is to be used with the blasts. together that works out as 2 cards, 2 mana, 5 damage, INSTANT. not bad as a back up plan. Shrapnell Blast is quite similar to shard Volley, when sacing a furnace, it just costs 1 more, and does an extra 2 damage.
Barbarian Ring does suffer from Wasteland, but it is burn in a land! And it taps for red, and it comes into play untapped. It does obviously clash with Fireblast. Since I am playing far less Mountains, the full set of 4 Fireblasts is not really justified, 3 is far more effective. The second Fireblast is mostly a dead card, for me. Getting to 4 mountains can be a stretch for many other Burn Decks too, this is not just my problem.
Barbarian Ring is partly responsible for lots of the other changes.
It does stuff, like killing protection from red creatures, with Pariah.
Ring interacts with ALL the other changes I play, and likes them.
The traditional reason for not playing Comes into Play Tapped lands is because they bite you when you need the mana now. And fair enough too. But not getting the land at all will kill you quicker, and more dead. For this reason I like playing some Forgotton caves. Playing land that does not tap for R mana is much harder to justify.
Mountain + 6 spells should be a mullingan.
Mountain + 5 spells + Forgotten cave is a keeper.
Ball Lightning is a hammer to the head. It wins games. If it doesn't win the game, it will draw a response. Ball causes lots of damage from a single source. Ball Lightning causes players Fear!
It allows for massive comebacks. It forces players to never tap out.
The last cards I play that you guys don't is Sonic Seizure.
It covers all of the other questionable calls.
It is a remarkable Clean up card.
It covers too much land, and too little, and too many dead cards. ( POP, Ball Lightning, Shrapnell Blast)
My version of burn is very much more interactive in both the cards and players.
My cards interact and help each other in a way that "take 3" just dont.
I think I take less damage than most lists here too, only my Barabian Rings hurt me.
Forcing the opponent to actually do the damage to kill me can easily buy an extra turn.
From the primer. . . "With an optimum 20 lands, mulligans will still happen about 50% of the time,". most of you seem to be playing 19 land, but eh.
I mulligan far less than that. Partly I am greedy, but also I am playing 21 land, and baubles.
And my casting costs are slightly lower than most too, I think.
Wasteland is a real problem for lots of Burn decks, and forces a clean manabase of Mountains, and maybe fetches. That really aint for me.
I have lowered my mana base to 21/56
Most of the ones here are 19/60
Mine = 0.375
Most others = 0.3166666
Difference = 0.05833
Difference x 60 = 3.500
Assuming the Baubles are always cycled, that is 3.5 more land for wastelands to eat.
If I am OK with them using Wastelands to kill my land, both players are at less mana for longer. That is just fine by me too !
I do not like Goblin Guide.
It has been far too generous, and then dead.
What I played (2nd from 15). . .OddBall Red
2 jackal pup
2 keldon marauders
4 ball lightning
3 urza's bauble
4 lightning bolt
4 lava spike
3 chain lightning
4 shrapnel blast
3 magma jet
2 sonic burst
3 price of progress
3 fireblast
11 mountain
4 barbarian ring
4 great furnace
4 forgotten cave
sideboard:
1 artifact blast
1 grim lavamancer
1 magus of the scroll
1 obstinate familiar
1 slith firewalker
1 cave-in
1 flamebreak
1 pryoblast
1 scald
1 pulse of the forge
1 ensnaring bridge
1 ankh of mishra
1 tsabo's web
2 smash to smithereens
I am much happier with the below list, now that I have some clue of what is out there. . .
My Current list. . .OddBall Red. . .
4 lightning bolt
4 lava spike
4 chain lightning
3 rift Bolt
4 shrapnel blast
3 magma jet
2 sonic burst
3 price of progress
3 fireblast
2 keldon marauders
3 ball lightning
4 urza's bauble
11 mountain
4 barbarian ring
4 great furnace
2 forgotten cave
sideboard:
1 grim lavamancer
1 flamebreak
1 price of progress
1 ankh of mishra
1 Ball lightning
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Anarchy
4 Tormod's Crypt
My list has a much higher damage maximum, than most.
My numbers are just bigger. Things like Shrapnell Blast and Sonic Burst do 5 & 4, not 3 & 3. And as INSTANTS. I do not like lava spike, chain lightning & rift Bolt but they are the right choices, even if they are SO SLOW.
Ball Lightning is easier to dodge than a bolt, but it does do more.
And Haste & Trample are good at dealing damage.
Even with a blocker it is still doing damage, and killing the blocker. Flamewave just dont have take 6 as a back up play.
The Barbarian Rings are just more damage that you guys mostly do not play with.
Mine is a sophisticated Burn Deck, Oddball certainly aint quite like yours.
Played the above deck, went 1 win 3 losses.
1/2 (play mistake lost a game)
1/2 (play mistake lost a game)
1/2 (SNAFU, mistakes a plenty)
2/0
Maybe next time I can remember to actually use the scry effect off Magma jet, as well as using it at the right time. Bolting the player on turn 1 cause I guessed wrong about their deck. Then I died to a Lodestone Golem. and I sideboarded in ONE Anarchy, and missed the right time to play it. And, Waiting until the Pridemage has attacked is not a good idea when you are holding a Magma jet.
So, next time I am planning on playing something very similar, but with a better brain.
Anarchy is too narrow for such an open field.
Tormod's crypt is also too narrow.
I think I prefer the wide open sideboard I used first time.
Going down to 3 Shrapnell blasts seems right. Maybe a couple of other 1-2 card changes.
I so want a 2nd Rite to fit back in. No Mana burn really helps.
OK. Um... Look.
"You have the Great Furnace as your 3rd land but you dont have Shrapnel."
Cool.
I have gone take 3, 3 times. & you used a fetch.
I play my third land, cast a Ball Lightning, and Fireblast you to DEATH !
1-2 cards spare.
Next game?
"Your opponent Wastelands you and now you're down to one land."
OK. But aren't you dead already?
My opponent has lost 2 land, and I am playing Burn, with way more land & Baubles. Seriously LOTS more. And when I draw lots more I can Cycle them. Or get my opponent to wasteland them.
And ALL their little mana dudes are dead. Maybe they have mana rocks. not common though. Not feeling dead. Is it my go again?
"Luckily you also have Urza's Bauble."
Cool!
" But now you draw Sonic Burst, and you use that, randomly discarding the Bauble."
Um. No Dude.
I play the Bauble for ZERO.
This is kinda hard to ignore. If I want to discard the Bauble, I spoze I could keep it in my hand. But if a Blank card is better than a coloured in one, sure, I Spoze. I mean, why not play it, use it, and bang in their upkeep?
And, Why am I using the last card first?
Sonic gets used last, or if truely desperate in emergencies.
If I have ONE burn spell and I need to deal 4 points to a planeswalker, Burst is good. Burst is also good as the clean up card. If I draw too many land even after the cyclers, I can convert a blank into fuel. If I draw any of the problems you guys are pointing out, The burst can be used at the end to clear a blockage.
"Then you draw Shrapnel, and once again you don't have an artifact to use for it."
Um, sure, but I am far more concerned about 1 land.
I did some math way back in page 90, I am playing a WAY bigger percentage.
if you subtract the wastelands you wanna type about from my total, it is the same as yours. Provided I accept that the Baubles should be used to draw extra cards, not as Fuel.
The game you are describing will still go Bolt, Bolt for quite a while.
And the second land does come.
My deck is different to yours.
Just is. I have those cards.
I have played your deck. It works.
Hi Kiddies. I prefer my deck. I won my first tournament with burn 15 years ago. :0
Homer Moment . . Mmmmm..... Varchilds War Riders......
And, How do you get away with complaining about the speed of Ball Lightning !
I play Ball Lightning over Sulfuric Vortex or metamorph.
Turn 3 kills seem Pretty Unlikely when playing cards like vortex.
And sure, if you draw the perfect amounts of burn, land, and no opponent interference. Take 3! works a treat.
Out here in the real world life can get a lot more tricky.
This deck is amazingly stable. I have played a whole lot of Oddball combo. Weird Censorific. Combo Burn Red is just So me.
Because your builds are much simpler (Take 3!), they do not have anywhere near the same damage potential. Mine can easily get to 30 MUCH faster than yours. This is because I am expecting to have to interact with something that is not just their life total. But I am completely happy not to.
And, I really dont think "you" understand if you think PoP, then Ball requires 5 mana. PoP is an instant, if you counter it, in your turn, I get to untap and cast Ball Lightning. If you have a zero cost counter, good for you. Maybe this is turn 4 and I pay for your daze. Or you can only counter Non creatures / one costs / two costs / or Instants with your counter.
Being a creature does have advantages Too.
Yes, the thread has a whole lotta posts.Yes, the primer is good.
Yes, I have played those cards.
The only thing suggested so far that sorta works in Hellspark, and that aint great.
As far as I can tell, standard burn (take 3!) is actually far WORSE against Goyf/Hymn goodstuff.
Topdecking 3 a turn is just not gunna make it.
I could have written the primer, without the need of 127 pages addendum.
Some of the cards I play are not even on it! (Sonic Burst)
This seriously made me laugh.
How many Arabian Mountains are you playing?
A couple of years ago, I realised I had been to more Nationals than that Judge was Old !
Yes, I know.
I am glad you did not write the Primer.
Sonic Burst & Sonic Seizure are both about to be put on the Bad List, without you guys needing to play them !
Big NO on that one.
I am not shoving anything down your throat. I barely know You!
I posted my list because I was explicitly asked to.
It aint the same as yours, I know that, you know that.
Mine is FAR more complex, and harder to play.
& I would love to be winning more Tournaments with it.
Dredge clubbed me on turn 4 of the final. (hence lots of Tormods)
In the next, I lost 2 rounds to Hymn /Goyf, the deck I have been asking for suggestions about. So far the only good advice is Hellspark, and get lucky with a worse deck.
I have an impressive collection of BURN. (& I am missing 3 mox)
I started with the cards available on the Primer, maybe 16 years ago.
Missing Fireblast and Flame Rift. I found his choice of Flame Rift over Marauders interesting. Marauders hasn't been completely spectacular for me, but its high potential damage has won me some games. The problem is, so often it's either removed or chump blocked, and it's not the greatest top deck in the world. Flame Rift is more consistent and is a much better top deck, but I definitely fear seeing it against decks that also run on a faster (damage) clock, especially in multiples. I'm really considering running it in the 5k this upcoming weekend.
I was also interested in his choice of mass blue hate. I understand Countertop being a bad match-up, but Shusher/Needle/Artifact Hate gets the job done. And for High Tide, Pyrostatic Pillar is just as effective, in addition to not having to pray to never see ANT.
Legacy:
RBDark BurnBR
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
I heard a story from the tourney stream that a group of players from Arizona were playing the exact same Burn deck at the tourney.
I like Figure of Destiny, now I wish i didn't sell my Figures now. I can get some before I go to the Grand Prix Trail next week, but getting Flame Rifts might be harder.
I
Re: Question has anyone tried Pyrostatic Pillar in board?