Hi guys
I'm playing my elves variation with quite good results, but i'm stuck with the sideboard.
What would you recomend for me??
May I have some opinions from you???
I used Summoners pact before but Honestly I find it unnecesary.
This is my current list, cheap and effective:
14 Forest
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Progenitus
2 Staff of Domination
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Natural Order
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Priest of Titania
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Regal Force
4 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 faierie macabre
2 krosan grip
2 to 4 cards for combo
it all depends on your meta
in my meta there is alot of combo so i have
2 mindbreak trap
2 thorn of amethyst
2 krosan grip
2 choke
1 vexing shusher
2 meek stone
4 faire macabre
I have a crazy idea. You know how that guy ran 4x gitaxian probes? well what about instead of 4 probes you have 4x FoW. That way when you combo off and before you attack and they use terminus you can force it.
Eh?
He actually ran 2... but I think I agree with Lectrys on Envelop. Hits Terminus, Entreat, Show and Tell, Dread Return, Reanimate.
Leon Kornacki took 7th place in Los Angeles yesterday. I must say, I do like the list a lot. Interesting how he runs 3 of the main combo pieces and runs more lands in place.
After Rory's finish last week and Leon's finish this week, my faith has been somewhat restored in the deck. With the performance of BUG decks of late, we may (hopefully) see a shift from Stoneblade to Shardless BUG which could give us enough of a window to get away from Terminus and post some real tournament results.
Leon's deck is horrid. Playing it is asking for inconsistency. He went 5-3 in the Legacy portion.
I went 6-2 with a version closer to Rory's; but since I didn't made Top 8 nor got the mythical "7-1" it was not featured. I lost to two BUG decks when I had to play a grindy game against their removal and DRS's. My own DRS' were excellent in the deck.
Round 5 - Hive Mind (2-0) - making 10 mana and 3 of any color can help. Won with beatdown however.
Round 6 - Merfolk (2-0) - No FoW on Glimpse, so that was quick.
Round 7 - Shardless BUG (GerryT) (1-2) - Combo G1, grind out G2 and lost, grind out G3 and lost to Diabolic Machine (A.Visions x3 each a turn apart, missed on a short Glimpse chain into land land runner)
Round 8 - Jund (2-1) - Combo, grind, grind when opponent flooded and beatdown with Regal Forces.
Round 13 - BUG w/ Bob (1-2) - Grind and lost to Deathrite Shaman superiority. Combo G2. Grind and lost to Deathrite Shaman superiority.
Round 14 - RIP Miracles (2-1) - Oddly not at all hard anymore thanks to Deathrite Shaman. He gets Moat out, and I cast Emrakul. Did I mention that I missed the Extra turn trigger facing lethal damage? Ya, I was that guy! (opponent scooped tho). G2 get Angel beatdown. G3 grind with beatdown and DRS.
Round 15 - Maverick (2-1) - DRS > Maverick, esp with all the untap effects we have.
Round 16 - NO BUG (2-1) - DRS can grind it out, and since they play a lot of spells, it makes it easy to clock them.
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It sound pretty ambitious, but im not that experienced. Is the 4 gitaxian probes actually a good idea to have in elves?
I've actually been having success against terminus decks using 3x Gitaxian Probe and 3x Cabal Therapy main. The probe doesn't cost card advantage to use, and it lets me know what I need to play around, plus it's best friends with Therapy. We are already in black anyway for Deathrite Shaman, and it's actually backbreaking to t1 Therapy naming Brainstorm most blue decks. Late game, I'm trying to grind out a win, I usually have 2-3 manadorks who are amazing fodder for Therapy flashbacks.
I just recently started testing out two Probes maindeck after Rory's list last week and they seem to be helping, especially when you see cards like Terminus + Brainstorm in their hand.
I think therapy needs to be in this deck, if only in the sideboard. I'm in the process of re-vamping my list to look like the one Ruckus just posted. For a long time, I was a firm believer in Mindbreak Trap for the board as it just hoses storm decks. However, since DRS has been introduced, I think its safe to sacrifice the traps for Therapy as we'll improve our matchup versus everything else in the format. Not to mention we'll ahve no shortage of creatures to feed the flashback cost.
Considering most lists are splashing white and black right now, would a card like Ghostway be a decent answer to Terminus? It also has some notable synergy with stuff like Regal Force, Elvish Visionary, Qurion Dryad, and Wirewood Symbiote for when you can't quite combo out. I also feel like City of Solitude or Dosan, the Falling Leaf could be ok? Also, are Vengevine packages out of the board just not good enough to beat Terminus? I feel like dumping 3 Vengevines with Buried Alive to then cast a Dosan and mana dork the next turn would seal the miracle player out of the game. On the note of hasty creatures, Dosan into Natural Order Craterhoof could steal some games too? Dosan can also just be Gaddock Teeg. Forgive me if these all sound like bad suggestions, just trying to figure some way around Terminus decks as I really want to be playing elves right now.
Note that I don't lean on Living Wish to find the Elves - only actual utility and kill-cons. Moving Elves to the SB is asking to mess up your combo turn.
I tried them myself and simply didn't like to grind so I dropped them.
To use the type of comments you seem to use a lot:
"staple and lucky MUs for those wins".
Nothing special.
Maybe too much GY hate but that's a matter of SB tastes and likes.
Still I like the second Force though I found a second redundant most of
the time i ran Entity. How did you like to bounce it?
You mentioned you combo.ed out a few matches so I assume you had
that option?
On topic once more:
I am still wondering why noone seems to use those Grips anymore.
As easy to cast, nearly as difficult to remove from the stack as Decay.
Kills anything sufficiently including (!) Moat and Humility.
Also we hit any hate except peacekeeper who is dying vs Mortarpod.
Flavour of the month?
Thanks for the feedback.
This deck was built and selected to be played in the Invitational. Look at the decks that were played there -- BUG (leaning on DRS), RUG (DRS wins this for us easily), and Miracles. I don't actually care about Humility since the deck already runs 30 creatures that more or less cost 1 for a 1/1. Moat is a problem, but that's exactly what Emrakul fixes. You don't need to kill Moat because you don't care about it. Humility can (and I did) be raced. I had no problem paying the iron price for a 1/1 Regal Force just to attack with.
No one is playing Peacekeeper in this metagame because Abrupt Decay exists. That card kills both Peacekeeper and Counterbalance and is still uncounterable.
The 2nd Regal Force is always worth it. You can easily pop out a few elves then GSZ for it to gain all your cards back.
By "grinding" I mean that I'm just attacking with 2-3 elves while trying to setup either Elvish Visionary / Wirewood Symbiote recursion, or building up for a Glimpse turn. Half the times, they were dead by just attacking over 3-4 turns anyway. DRS by definition is a grindy card - you eat their G/Y to damage them.
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Actually it can help to move "some" of those combo pieces to the sideboard,
namely Heritage Druid (which you only want once), Symbiote (because you
can't have enough of those and 3 MD +3 Wishes are 6 chances to get it) and
maybe(!) Nettle Sentinel (again same reasoning as Symbiote).
I did this during SB games, when I had to bring in Kgrips. Maindeck and for Game 1, you want the most efficient combo possible. Playing the pieces in the SB makes the deck slower and less consistent.
First of there seems to be a misunderstanding.
I asked if you had the opportunity to bounce the Regal Force for worth via
Symbiote /Mirror Entity or simply didn't need it.
Either reason can make a second Force absolete (depending on the situation
you where stuck in) thus opening up space in your list you could exploit.
Usually I found the point to be moot but still I did it on one occasion while
testing the Gw list due to a StP.ed Heritage (prior to Entity drop) to grab
another combo piece.
I tried Mirror Entity, but found it to be clunky. Sure, you go infinite sometimes, or can go aggro. But it's not a green creature which means it stops your Glimpse turns mid-way through. It was my personal preference not to rely on Mirror Entity.
Second Emrakul does squat vs Moat + Humility. Which I did see in at least
one of the miracle lists. Both can't be hit via Decays - thus my later questions
concerning Grip. I simply ain't the guy who wants a card to be dropped on
the table and I get my cardboard and have to say "next game".
Can't win them all. If they cast two 4 mana enchantments on me, well -- congrats. You spent 8 mana to shut down my deck. Next game.
I didn't say it sees played, I said "you can't hit him with Grip" as a Con vs
Grip. Your argument would strengthen the position of Krosan Grip, btw. ^^
The question still stands:
Why not use Krosan Grip which would have to be Balanced "blindly"
(meaning a very good chance it resolves) and can handle valid and
current threats? Also it shuts down any Deed Activations.
3CMC vs 2CMC + splash color looks like a fair tradeoff.
I never had problems getting that one mana while playing Elves! competitively.
I am just opening up this specific worm can due to the fact that
a lot of people simply grab Decay as a solution while creating other
problems they now need to handle and I want to understand their
reasoning.
I didn't ask you specifically btw. I was just wondering.
I think you're quite mistaken. Being able to hit both Peacekeeper and Counterbalance using the same card and being 100% confident that you can kill Counterbalance makes Abrupt Decay >>> KGrip. They can still counter Krosan Grip with Counterbalance by floating 3 cmc on top. This has come up many times and is reason enough to play Abrupt Decay instead.
Being one mana cheaper is actually a large difference. being able to destroy Dark Confident too, is vastly underrated. I won't be regretting this card change.
Sure. I was just wondering if you ever really wanted a second Force
or if another Elf/ a WinCon would have sufficed.
I consider(ed) a second one for a while but dumped the idea since I didn't
find the space ( I am running a build similiar to Bernado's or the one Flores used).
If you're splashing W for Entity, then by all means, -1 Regal Force +1 Mirror Entity. Once you have Entity, you don't really need Regal Force to win - so that's a wash.
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One thing that I find confusing is that none of the top decks seem to play Cavern of Souls. I usually only play 2; but it's saved me many times. Additionally it can even tap for W when casting Mirror Entity.
Opponent t1: Ancient Tomb, Chalice of the void on 1; extends hand
My t1: Cavern of Souls, Mana Dork
Seems like the prevalence of Miracle and Counterbalance would make it even better?
Crop Rotation simply as a 1 of has given me more more flexibility and consistency when comboing out.
One thing that I find confusing is that none of the top decks seem to play Cavern of Souls. I usually only play 2; but it's saved me many times. Additionally it can even tap for W when casting Mirror Entity.
Opponent t1: Ancient Tomb, Chalice of the void on 1; extends hand
My t1: Cavern of Souls, Mana Dork
Seems like the prevalence of Miracle and Counterbalance would make it even better?
Crop Rotation simply as a 1 of has given me more more flexibility and consistency when comboing out.
Any reason why these aren't seeing play?
Cavern is vulnerable to Wasteland in a deck where having only one land in the starting hand is very common. Also cannot be returned to hand with Quirion Ranger and you cannot cast Symbiote with it.
Here is my current deck plan. I'm excited that I was able to acquire the actual dual lands.
I really like the idea of Cabal Therapy; it almost makes me want to play with Wirewood Herald (and then Eyeblight's Ending); but that purpose is already fulfilled better by GSZ (and Abrupt Decay), and I don't have the space for it. I'm still torn for when to bring it in; and what to take out.
I am still deciding between Mirror Entity and Emrakul. I think I'm settling more on Mirror Entity; but not enough to cut Emrakul from the SB yet. If I did cut Emmy, I'd probably just throw in Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre for recurring permanent destruction with Mirror Entity.
The SB is still a mess of alternative win conditions and utility that I've yet to fully decide upon.
Although I've always known of the existence of Combo Elves, somehow I'd never appreciated the deck before this week.
It just seems like such a great idea. It's a combo deck, so any form of aggro is under a lot of pressure. It's very resistant to hatebears, other than Ethersworn Canonist that is: neither Thalia nor Teeg cause any hassle.
The combo decks I'm coming from (Belcher, SI, Dredge) are faster, sure... but I've often enough wound up with no relevant permanents, little in the way of a hand, and either no mana or close to it. Sometimes even with Pact upkeep triggers coming in and 15+ life points traded away!
Elves leaves me with.... a Forest or two and some 1/1s? Personally I think it's rather nice when my combo pieces can attack on their own, even if all I've got left are a few of the weaker ones. It certainly is different from the complete catastrophes I'm used to suffering (when I lose, that is) in the face of countermagic and discard. This just has to be worth seriously looking into.
My first foray is, of necessity, somewhat budget. Excluding Gaea's Cradle from the deck, and using my one Savannah (along with a Temple Garden) is where I'm at. Here's the deck I've sleeved up initially. Any comments are appreciated, even brief ones describing blind monkeys building a better deck while under the influence of strong alcohol. The shocking lack of Fyndhorn Elves is due to the LGS's shocking lack of them, not my own oversight!
For the SB, I really don't have any idea what I'd like to run outside of Thalia, Teeg, Mortarpod, Viridian Shaman, and Jitte. I do think I'll give this Dosan the Falling Leaf a whirl. Abrupt Decay looks like a must, and that one in multiples. I think I might like Armageddon for the Miracles MU.
It amuses me to imagine tapping my Savannah + a mana dork, returning it with Quirion to uptap said dork only to tap it again, and scrounge up another mana somewhere to fund my Armageddon. After which I can lay my Savannah down again and continue the fun.
I think the places one can really attack the Terminus deck are the mana base, the top, and (last of all) the Counterbalance. It's necessary to attack the enchantment, sadly, with all these 1 drops I suppose... but even with it in the bin Miracles still has plenty of game. Top is the real enemy, which is why I like the Dosan idea that might let me kill it (or just win on the spot). Armageddoning the mana base should prevent outsized angel armadas and maybe even Jace, but I'm pretty sure Miracles will have little trouble rebuilding with Top and Brainstorm and all those fetches.
Envelop is an idea I've heard, but I don't quite understand how a 1cc counterspell is going to be reliable against a Counterbalance deck. I might well be wrong, it's not like I have any results. I only just sleeved it up, after all.
I'd put the Pridemage in the sideboard and mainboard Viridian Shaman. I'd use Krosan Grip to kill the top and Abrupt Decay for the Counter Balance; but I'd only use one of them and probably the Decay.
With the Black mana available from Bayou for Deathrite Shaman, many consider Cabal Therapy or Thoughtseize.
That seems reasonable. At a certain point it does get clunky having non-Elves on the board.
This is a pretty tricky deck to play, actually. Is there a compendium of the tricks needed? I get the infinite mana with Heritage, Nettle, Mirror, and Wirewood... But I'm sure there are some bounce tricks with Visionary that I'm missing. I get the impression that Visionary skills are going to be key. I imagine Glimpse will often be countered or discarded, and what I'll have to work with will be the cantrip elf.
There is easy mode: Cast Glimpse, then cast Elves.
Then, there's hard mode - get both Wirewood Symbiote + Elvish Visionary out together.
Against decks with disruption, mode 2 is what you're always trying to achieve and sustain. Bounce Visionary every opportunity you have to cycle through your deck. Sometimes, you'll catch a break and be able to Glimpse into some good stuff. Most of the time, you'll just use it to refill your hand.
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Wirewood tricks are really the unsung heart of the deck. You can use him to bounce Viridian Shaman to punish artifact players as well as the old 'block their Jitte-carrier with a dork, then bounce it prevent damage' trick.
Wirewood tricks are really the unsung heart of the deck. You can use him to bounce Viridian Shaman to punish artifact players as well as the old 'block their Jitte-carrier with a dork, then bounce it prevent damage' trick.
Not to mention that Wirewood Symbiote is like Elves's Mother of Runes (except it dies to removal)--it must be dealt with before the opponent can target any Elves because you can just bounce the first targeted Elf in response.
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4 faierie macabre
2 krosan grip
2 to 4 cards for combo
it all depends on your meta
in my meta there is alot of combo so i have
2 mindbreak trap
2 thorn of amethyst
2 krosan grip
2 choke
1 vexing shusher
2 meek stone
4 faire macabre
4 Vengevine
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Choke
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
He actually ran 2... but I think I agree with Lectrys on Envelop. Hits Terminus, Entreat, Show and Tell, Dread Return, Reanimate.
Legacy
:symg:Free Gaea's Cradle:symg:
I was unaware of this envelop card, but I like it. Don't think i'm going to use it tomorrow in the GPT but maybe in weekly legacy give it a try.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=51649
After Rory's finish last week and Leon's finish this week, my faith has been somewhat restored in the deck. With the performance of BUG decks of late, we may (hopefully) see a shift from Stoneblade to Shardless BUG which could give us enough of a window to get away from Terminus and post some real tournament results.
Legacy
:symg:Free Gaea's Cradle:symg:
I went 6-2 with a version closer to Rory's; but since I didn't made Top 8 nor got the mythical "7-1" it was not featured. I lost to two BUG decks when I had to play a grindy game against their removal and DRS's. My own DRS' were excellent in the deck.
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Llanowar Elf
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Heritage Druid
2 Birchlore Rangers
2 Quirion Ranger
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Priest of Titania
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Elvish Archdruid
2 Regal Forge
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Emrakul
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 GSZ
3 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
7 Fetch
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
4 Forest
SB:
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Thalia
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Scavenging Ooze
Round 5 - Hive Mind (2-0) - making 10 mana and 3 of any color can help. Won with beatdown however.
Round 6 - Merfolk (2-0) - No FoW on Glimpse, so that was quick.
Round 7 - Shardless BUG (GerryT) (1-2) - Combo G1, grind out G2 and lost, grind out G3 and lost to Diabolic Machine (A.Visions x3 each a turn apart, missed on a short Glimpse chain into land land runner)
Round 8 - Jund (2-1) - Combo, grind, grind when opponent flooded and beatdown with Regal Forces.
Round 13 - BUG w/ Bob (1-2) - Grind and lost to Deathrite Shaman superiority. Combo G2. Grind and lost to Deathrite Shaman superiority.
Round 14 - RIP Miracles (2-1) - Oddly not at all hard anymore thanks to Deathrite Shaman. He gets Moat out, and I cast Emrakul. Did I mention that I missed the Extra turn trigger facing lethal damage? Ya, I was that guy! (opponent scooped tho). G2 get Angel beatdown. G3 grind with beatdown and DRS.
Round 15 - Maverick (2-1) - DRS > Maverick, esp with all the untap effects we have.
Round 16 - NO BUG (2-1) - DRS can grind it out, and since they play a lot of spells, it makes it easy to clock them.
5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
Check out my Legacy stream
I've actually been having success against terminus decks using 3x Gitaxian Probe and 3x Cabal Therapy main. The probe doesn't cost card advantage to use, and it lets me know what I need to play around, plus it's best friends with Therapy. We are already in black anyway for Deathrite Shaman, and it's actually backbreaking to t1 Therapy naming Brainstorm most blue decks. Late game, I'm trying to grind out a win, I usually have 2-3 manadorks who are amazing fodder for Therapy flashbacks.
I think therapy needs to be in this deck, if only in the sideboard. I'm in the process of re-vamping my list to look like the one Ruckus just posted. For a long time, I was a firm believer in Mindbreak Trap for the board as it just hoses storm decks. However, since DRS has been introduced, I think its safe to sacrifice the traps for Therapy as we'll improve our matchup versus everything else in the format. Not to mention we'll ahve no shortage of creatures to feed the flashback cost.
Legacy
:symg:Free Gaea's Cradle:symg:
GUB The Mimeoplasm GUB
RGW Mayael the Anima RGW
GGG Seton, Krosan Protector GGG
You do realize I'm "Koby" on the Source, have extensive experience with Elves, and probably know a thing or two about Living Wish builds.
If you want a Living Wish Elves build - try this one (about 20 months old)
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5983&iddeck=43372
Note that I don't lean on Living Wish to find the Elves - only actual utility and kill-cons. Moving Elves to the SB is asking to mess up your combo turn.
This deck was built and selected to be played in the Invitational. Look at the decks that were played there -- BUG (leaning on DRS), RUG (DRS wins this for us easily), and Miracles. I don't actually care about Humility since the deck already runs 30 creatures that more or less cost 1 for a 1/1. Moat is a problem, but that's exactly what Emrakul fixes. You don't need to kill Moat because you don't care about it. Humility can (and I did) be raced. I had no problem paying the iron price for a 1/1 Regal Force just to attack with.
No one is playing Peacekeeper in this metagame because Abrupt Decay exists. That card kills both Peacekeeper and Counterbalance and is still uncounterable.
The 2nd Regal Force is always worth it. You can easily pop out a few elves then GSZ for it to gain all your cards back.
By "grinding" I mean that I'm just attacking with 2-3 elves while trying to setup either Elvish Visionary / Wirewood Symbiote recursion, or building up for a Glimpse turn. Half the times, they were dead by just attacking over 3-4 turns anyway. DRS by definition is a grindy card - you eat their G/Y to damage them.
5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
Check out my Legacy stream
I did this during SB games, when I had to bring in Kgrips. Maindeck and for Game 1, you want the most efficient combo possible. Playing the pieces in the SB makes the deck slower and less consistent.
I tried Mirror Entity, but found it to be clunky. Sure, you go infinite sometimes, or can go aggro. But it's not a green creature which means it stops your Glimpse turns mid-way through. It was my personal preference not to rely on Mirror Entity.
Can't win them all. If they cast two 4 mana enchantments on me, well -- congrats. You spent 8 mana to shut down my deck. Next game.
I think you're quite mistaken. Being able to hit both Peacekeeper and Counterbalance using the same card and being 100% confident that you can kill Counterbalance makes Abrupt Decay >>> KGrip. They can still counter Krosan Grip with Counterbalance by floating 3 cmc on top. This has come up many times and is reason enough to play Abrupt Decay instead.
Being one mana cheaper is actually a large difference. being able to destroy Dark Confident too, is vastly underrated. I won't be regretting this card change.
If you're splashing W for Entity, then by all means, -1 Regal Force +1 Mirror Entity. Once you have Entity, you don't really need Regal Force to win - so that's a wash.
5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
Check out my Legacy stream
Opponent t1: Ancient Tomb, Chalice of the void on 1; extends hand
My t1: Cavern of Souls, Mana Dork
Seems like the prevalence of Miracle and Counterbalance would make it even better?
Crop Rotation simply as a 1 of has given me more more flexibility and consistency when comboing out.
Any reason why these aren't seeing play?
Because GSZ & Abrupt Decay > CotV / Counterbalance
5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
Check out my Legacy stream
I find 2 cradles and 1-2 CoS to be best, especially if you play with Mirror Entity.
I wouldn't use sideboard space for it; just what fits and doesn't dilute the main deck.
Cavern is vulnerable to Wasteland in a deck where having only one land in the starting hand is very common. Also cannot be returned to hand with Quirion Ranger and you cannot cast Symbiote with it.
I really like the idea of Cabal Therapy; it almost makes me want to play with Wirewood Herald (and then Eyeblight's Ending); but that purpose is already fulfilled better by GSZ (and Abrupt Decay), and I don't have the space for it. I'm still torn for when to bring it in; and what to take out.
I am still deciding between Mirror Entity and Emrakul. I think I'm settling more on Mirror Entity; but not enough to cut Emrakul from the SB yet. If I did cut Emmy, I'd probably just throw in Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre for recurring permanent destruction with Mirror Entity.
The SB is still a mess of alternative win conditions and utility that I've yet to fully decide upon.
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Llanowar Elf
3 Priest of Titania
2 Birchlore Rangers
2 Fyndhorn Elves
2 Quirion Ranger
2 Mirror Entity
1 Viridian Shaman
CREATURES 5
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Regal Force
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun Zenith
1 Crop Rotation
LAND 16
3 Forest
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Gaea's Cradle
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Pendelhaven
1 Savannah
1 Verdant Catatombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Emrakul, the Aeons torn
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Helix Pinnacle
1 Mortarpod
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Vexing shusher
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
It just seems like such a great idea. It's a combo deck, so any form of aggro is under a lot of pressure. It's very resistant to hatebears, other than Ethersworn Canonist that is: neither Thalia nor Teeg cause any hassle.
The combo decks I'm coming from (Belcher, SI, Dredge) are faster, sure... but I've often enough wound up with no relevant permanents, little in the way of a hand, and either no mana or close to it. Sometimes even with Pact upkeep triggers coming in and 15+ life points traded away!
Elves leaves me with.... a Forest or two and some 1/1s? Personally I think it's rather nice when my combo pieces can attack on their own, even if all I've got left are a few of the weaker ones. It certainly is different from the complete catastrophes I'm used to suffering (when I lose, that is) in the face of countermagic and discard. This just has to be worth seriously looking into.
My first foray is, of necessity, somewhat budget. Excluding Gaea's Cradle from the deck, and using my one Savannah (along with a Temple Garden) is where I'm at. Here's the deck I've sleeved up initially. Any comments are appreciated, even brief ones describing blind monkeys building a better deck while under the influence of strong alcohol. The shocking lack of Fyndhorn Elves is due to the LGS's shocking lack of them, not my own oversight!
33 creatures
For the SB, I really don't have any idea what I'd like to run outside of Thalia, Teeg, Mortarpod, Viridian Shaman, and Jitte. I do think I'll give this Dosan the Falling Leaf a whirl. Abrupt Decay looks like a must, and that one in multiples. I think I might like Armageddon for the Miracles MU.
It amuses me to imagine tapping my Savannah + a mana dork, returning it with Quirion to uptap said dork only to tap it again, and scrounge up another mana somewhere to fund my Armageddon. After which I can lay my Savannah down again and continue the fun.
I think the places one can really attack the Terminus deck are the mana base, the top, and (last of all) the Counterbalance. It's necessary to attack the enchantment, sadly, with all these 1 drops I suppose... but even with it in the bin Miracles still has plenty of game. Top is the real enemy, which is why I like the Dosan idea that might let me kill it (or just win on the spot). Armageddoning the mana base should prevent outsized angel armadas and maybe even Jace, but I'm pretty sure Miracles will have little trouble rebuilding with Top and Brainstorm and all those fetches.
Envelop is an idea I've heard, but I don't quite understand how a 1cc counterspell is going to be reliable against a Counterbalance deck. I might well be wrong, it's not like I have any results. I only just sleeved it up, after all.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
With the Black mana available from Bayou for Deathrite Shaman, many consider Cabal Therapy or Thoughtseize.
This is a pretty tricky deck to play, actually. Is there a compendium of the tricks needed? I get the infinite mana with Heritage, Nettle, Mirror, and Wirewood... But I'm sure there are some bounce tricks with Visionary that I'm missing. I get the impression that Visionary skills are going to be key. I imagine Glimpse will often be countered or discarded, and what I'll have to work with will be the cantrip elf.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
Then, there's hard mode - get both Wirewood Symbiote + Elvish Visionary out together.
Against decks with disruption, mode 2 is what you're always trying to achieve and sustain. Bounce Visionary every opportunity you have to cycle through your deck. Sometimes, you'll catch a break and be able to Glimpse into some good stuff. Most of the time, you'll just use it to refill your hand.
5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
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:symg:Free Gaea's Cradle:symg:
Not to mention that Wirewood Symbiote is like Elves's Mother of Runes (except it dies to removal)--it must be dealt with before the opponent can target any Elves because you can just bounce the first targeted Elf in response.