2x Empty the Warrens seems wrong. No reason to hurt the Goblins plan.
2x Mox Opal is interesting, is it online often enough? Having a conditionally dead card makes us mulligan more.
If Mox Opal is online often enough, and with Street Wraiths to put on Chrome Moxen, Dark Ritual is at least something to think about. Both the mana to cast it and the mana it gives you are awkward, though. I think I agree with Ragged that this isn't the route to go. Wizards gave us Pyretic Ritual because the love us and they want us to be happy.
I've been tinkering with the Mox Opals for a while, and it's not really worth it to me. A lot of times, it's a dead draw in opening hand. When it works out it's nice, but I wouldn't run them in a tournament.
Sadly, I can't really win consistantly enough with a no land build. I've been trying several builds, and even playtested Ragged's dl on ws now. It just does not bring the power needed:(
I'm not sure about the remaining spots. Ideas anyone?
EDIT: Random thought just occured to me... Isn't there a Prisim that converts one mana and draws a card at the cost of one mana? I wonder if that could make black work...
I play a Diminishing Returns in the sideboard. If you don't think EtW tokens will get there and can only float 4, crack that LED for 3 blue and try again :). I forget what the other wish target is, something off-color too. Might be an Infernal Tutor.
Also I hated Street Wraith when I used it. Doesn't add storm, doesn't add mana, doesn't do anything except make it harder to mulligan properly. I would just straight cut him and play the missing Chrome Mox, Belcher (you must play 4 Belcher!) and Land Grant.
Unless you're running death wish charbelcher in the board doesn't work. You always run 4 charbelcher, 3 EtW, and 4 wish. It is the most consistent set of win cons for the deck.
I agree on street wraith. Chrome mox and land grant are better than it as is the 4th belcher. Street wraith is annoying to deal with; sometimes you need a win con when you cycle it and you whiff or you need mana and you draw an excess win con which is very annoying. Manamorphose straight beats it since it adds to storm and colorfixes.
Land less builds don't work because they never have enough IMS's. Mox opal doesn't solve this; it never gets active unless you have a godlike hand. Land grant is great as is the lone taiga.
Glittering wish doesn't grab charbelcher it only gets multicolored spells and belcher is an artifact. And obviously golden wish is super bad at 5 mana. Death wish is the only card and even then you save a total of one mana when compared to b. wish -> infernal tutor -> belcher. Death wish just doesn't make the cut over burning wish which is practically demonic tutor in this deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
In the build I play with at local tournies, I do deathwish. Sorry, I confused myself.
Additionally,
As that is the dl I mainly run, I said wish a charbelcher because I'm very 'me' centric. While also saying in my nonbig tourny build, I assumed you all knew what I was talking about. Foolish of me to assume something I've never mentioned once in this thread.
In bigger tournaments, I pretty much use the primer list. In smaller, local tournaments, I use a rbg build. I do this because the rbg build is less likely to get other players in the meta throw a hissy and still lets me win tournaments consistantly.
I do want to go on the record on this thread, that a rbg build is not a tier one deck when you start going to tournaments of high caliber.
I've posted on several threads on this site and others explaining this, but never on this thread, lol. I should have said this from the begining, and feel quite silly now. Going back and looking other posts made earlier, I did the other black ran suggestions too. Anyway, sorry for the confusion.
Its all good man, I just couldnt figure out what you were talking about. I think the rg version is the best though, if I was going to use b for rits id rather play the pact version of spanish inquisition. Faster goldfish and mulligans better, imo
I agree, but I don't quite have the cards for that black run, and mine is great for the local meta.
I actually read "you can't wish for charbelcher..." and instantly was like, "uh, what do you mean you can't wish for a belcher?" Lol.
The rg build is the best build. And I run pretty much run the primer list at big tournaments.
Still, the black builds are fun, especially while maindecking a tendrils
Additionally, earlier this week I just threw Channels in my rbg build in place of the cabal rituals, just to illustrate a point.
Silliest matchup, ever. Affinity w/tolarian vs Channel powered belcher. Good times, channel barely coming off with a 2-1 win.
Its worse than street wraith most of the time, but it might be good for landless versions
You are nuts. It's strictly better then SW in every way. Both have exactly the same result (Draw a card for 2 life) but now you get to see if your opp is packing counters, how many so you kno to play around, AND it adds to your storm count
You are nuts. It's strictly better then SW in every way. Both have exactly the same result (Draw a card for 2 life) but now you get to see if your opp is packing counters, how many so you kno to play around, AND it adds to your storm count
Its more vulnerable to disruption, but on second thought, I'm not sure that matters.
I just acquired this deck in a trade, and I'm working out the sideboard for my meta. One guy in particular is playing Leyline combo which main decks four Leyline of Sanctity four Sterling Grove and runs a single The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale along side four Crop Rotation. I was thinking wish for Tranquility, but that Tabernacle is just devastating for the goblins. Any suggestions?
I just acquired this deck in a trade, and I'm working out the sideboard for my meta. One guy in particular is playing Leyline combo which main decks four Leyline of Sanctity four Sterling Grove and runs a single The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale along side four Crop Rotation. I was thinking wish for Tranquility, but that Tabernacle is just devastating for the goblins. Any suggestions?
play Reverent Silence free so you can just drop it the turn you go off.
Man, cutting out a mana source is gonna be tough.
You really think you need more than the Wraiths and Manamorphose?
I'm not saying that they are needed, but that they might be better. It might require knowing the maths and probabilities. Say the hand was Land Grant, 5 Wraiths/Probes, rite of flame or tinder wall. Keep or not to keep?
Edit- I'm looking into making it a 52 card deck, which would mean that we won't need the same amount of mana sources/kill cons.
Sadly, I can't really win consistantly enough with a no land build. I've been trying several builds, and even playtested Ragged's dl on ws now. It just does not bring the power needed:(
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
gamertag: filthychocolate
Deus was an idea for decks like Lands that have Tab, or decks like Affinity that might be able to produce enough chump blockers.
Mox Opal was not a good idea, too often it was dead.
Chain Lightning was a second experiment on the SB that I love. I have gone back to a 1-land list:
4x Chrome Mox
4x Goblin Charbelcher
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
Creatures:
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Tinder Wall
Spells:
4x Manamorphose
4x Pyretic Ritual
4x Seething Song
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Burning Wish
3x Empty the Warrens
4x Rite of Flame
4x Land Grant
1x Taiga
4x Xantid Swarm
4x Pyroblast
1x Chain Lightning
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Goblin War Strike
1x Shattering Spree
1x Hull Breach
1x Pyroclasm
1x Diminishing Returns
I'm not sure about the remaining spots. Ideas anyone?
EDIT: Random thought just occured to me... Isn't there a Prisim that converts one mana and draws a card at the cost of one mana? I wonder if that could make black work...
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Also I hated Street Wraith when I used it. Doesn't add storm, doesn't add mana, doesn't do anything except make it harder to mulligan properly. I would just straight cut him and play the missing Chrome Mox, Belcher (you must play 4 Belcher!) and Land Grant.
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
gamertag: filthychocolate
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
I agree on street wraith. Chrome mox and land grant are better than it as is the 4th belcher. Street wraith is annoying to deal with; sometimes you need a win con when you cycle it and you whiff or you need mana and you draw an excess win con which is very annoying. Manamorphose straight beats it since it adds to storm and colorfixes.
Land less builds don't work because they never have enough IMS's. Mox opal doesn't solve this; it never gets active unless you have a godlike hand. Land grant is great as is the lone taiga.
Glittering wish doesn't grab charbelcher it only gets multicolored spells and belcher is an artifact. And obviously golden wish is super bad at 5 mana. Death wish is the only card and even then you save a total of one mana when compared to b. wish -> infernal tutor -> belcher. Death wish just doesn't make the cut over burning wish which is practically demonic tutor in this deck.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Additionally,
As that is the dl I mainly run, I said wish a charbelcher because I'm very 'me' centric. While also saying in my nonbig tourny build, I assumed you all knew what I was talking about. Foolish of me to assume something I've never mentioned once in this thread.
In bigger tournaments, I pretty much use the primer list. In smaller, local tournaments, I use a rbg build. I do this because the rbg build is less likely to get other players in the meta throw a hissy and still lets me win tournaments consistantly.
I do want to go on the record on this thread, that a rbg build is not a tier one deck when you start going to tournaments of high caliber.
I've posted on several threads on this site and others explaining this, but never on this thread, lol. I should have said this from the begining, and feel quite silly now. Going back and looking other posts made earlier, I did the other black ran suggestions too. Anyway, sorry for the confusion.
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
gamertag: filthychocolate
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
I actually read "you can't wish for charbelcher..." and instantly was like, "uh, what do you mean you can't wish for a belcher?" Lol.
The rg build is the best build. And I run pretty much run the primer list at big tournaments.
Still, the black builds are fun, especially while maindecking a tendrils
Additionally, earlier this week I just threw Channels in my rbg build in place of the cabal rituals, just to illustrate a point.
Silliest matchup, ever. Affinity w/tolarian vs Channel powered belcher. Good times, channel barely coming off with a 2-1 win.
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
gamertag: filthychocolate
I'm digging my wishboard ATM:
1x Chain Lightning
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Goblin War Strike
1x Shattering Spree
1x Hull Breach
1x Pyroclasm
1x Diminishing Returns
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
You are nuts. It's strictly better then SW in every way. Both have exactly the same result (Draw a card for 2 life) but now you get to see if your opp is packing counters, how many so you kno to play around, AND it adds to your storm count
Its more vulnerable to disruption, but on second thought, I'm not sure that matters.
It doesn't. An opponent is never, ever, going to counter a Gitaxian Probe.
From my experiance testing the deck, its sometimes one of the more effective things they can do. But that might be do to recall bias on my part.
Which mana source is the worst? I'm thinking of running 8 wraiths/probes
You really think you need more than the Wraiths and Manamorphose?
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
gamertag: filthychocolate
play Reverent Silence free so you can just drop it the turn you go off.
I'm not saying that they are needed, but that they might be better. It might require knowing the maths and probabilities. Say the hand was Land Grant, 5 Wraiths/Probes, rite of flame or tinder wall. Keep or not to keep?
Edit- I'm looking into making it a 52 card deck, which would mean that we won't need the same amount of mana sources/kill cons.
lol im sorry, i had to laugh at this
he means a deck with 4 streetwraiths and 4 probes