MTG Salvation

I think Darkblast deserves to be in the Dredgers section. It certainly sees more play (usually as a 1-off) than Shambling Shell in LED variants. One classic trick with Darkblast is to cast it in your upkeep on an opponent's 2 toughness creature, Dredge it in your draw step, then cast it again to finish off the creature. You can even use it to kill your own Narcomoebas in case you don't have a Therapy available so that you can make zombie tokens to flashback a Dread Return. In certain match ups such as Elves, a reccuring removal spell can certainly be valuable.

Thanks for finding those, GoldenOldBoy. They eluded me We can always add whatever sections and information we want to the primer, but I think we have compiled a pretty good chunk of the basics for the deck. What we have so far is certainly an improvement over the old primer, so that's great!

SHABOOGS, you're right. I will "promote" Darkblast to the dredgers section and give it a more generous description. It certainly does have its place from time to time.

Here's what I have for BUG Delver:

Mainboard Threats:
Force of Will
Daze
Spell Pierce
Deathrite Shaman
Abrupt Decay

Sideboard Threats:
Surgical Extraction
Grafdigger's Cage
Nihil Spellbomb

This match up is a little tricker than Grixis Delver since it has more green mana sources for multiple DRS. But as long as you start the dredge engine early, you have a high chance to win by overwhelming their DRS. DDD is also viable when they don't open with a turn 1 DRS. A timely Abrupt Decay can exile all your Bridges so always remember to cast Therapy before going all in with Breakthrough and LED.

RE: Primer
In the Lands match up, I think you forgot Gamble in the mainboard threat section. It's like a Demonic Tutor in Lands.

In the DNT match up, they have Karakas to fight Iona so pilots should be mindful of that. And Containment Priest has Flash so even if they don't have vial they can still surprise you with a Priest when your Ichorid/Narcomoeba triggers are on the stack.

Primer looks awesome btw! Great job, Eretoryi.

True, I will add Gamble as well.

I always forget how overpowered Containment Priest is I'll include those details as well.

Thanks for the matchup analysis, dude! Thank you for helping me make the primer this awesome. We're gonna have one of the nicest primers on the whole site I think

Glad to help. Gave the primer another read and noticed something on the Bridge from Below section. I think it would give more clarity to new pilots on when they can stack the bridge triggers to get zombies before it gets exiled. As we here all know, that usually happens during the combat step, right after both attacking and blocking creatures deal damage to each other. Another instance, although it doesn't happen alot, would be when the opponent resolves a mass removal spell like wrath of god or damnation. Those are the times when both token and exile trigger go on the stack and thus gives us the choice on what to resolve first.

Great job with the primer guys. Appreciate the time and effort!
I have a few suggestions;

Is there word on how to use Cabal Therapy?
When I read the Primer v1, I saw no mention of Therapy. Maybe I missed it? It may be worth mentioning that we don't have to name the card until after the opponent passes priority, and that we can also use it on ourselves. Maybe even popping in a link? I know there are better links for Therapy, but this is all I can currently find.
http://www.channelfireball.com/home/legacy-weapon-therapy-session/

Quote from SHABOOGS »

I think Darkblast deserves to be in the Dredgers section. It certainly sees more play (usually as a 1-off) than Shambling Shell in LED variants. One classic trick with Darkblast is to cast it in your upkeep on an opponent's 2 toughness creature, Dredge it in your draw step, then cast it again to finish off the creature. You can even use it to kill your own Narcomoebas in case you don't have a Therapy available so that you can make zombie tokens to flashback a Dread Return. In certain match ups such as Elves, a reccuring removal spell can certainly be valuable.

Darkblast is a card I used to roll with when Deathrite Shaman was appearing in every deck known to us, exactly as described above.
Seeing as DRS is a soft form of hate that can (possibly) steal our dredgers or therapies, Blast is definitely worth a mention.

Quote from eAlphax »

I think Prized Amalgam deserves a mention in the Creatures section, at least as much as Bloodghast does.

I agree, PA is a card I see real value in.
In the Miracles section of "how to play against", I think you could also mention Prized Amalgam.
The last few time I've run LED-dredge I've run 2 or 3 PA's maindeck, and my matchups against Miracles has gone from poor, to 2-0 wins. PA is a beast against Terminus.

@slave: I agree with the usefulness of Amalgam in LED Dredge. People have just started to test it but I think in time they will realize its real value and earn a spot in LED Dredge. I agree that Amalgam can be effective in overwhelming the Miracles player and force them to spend their Terminus early but we didn't include sideboard strategies (which I think is where Amalgam's spot is in the 75 - for now) in the match up section because people build their sideboards differently.

Hey guys so Ive been playing dredge at my LGS the past couple weeks to some success but i recent played a mtachup that literally feels like its determined by the die roll.
Belcher.
Im sorry if its been discussed already i must of skimmed over it but what exactly is our game plan against belcher. If i cant land a turn 1 therapy on the play it feels like there is nothing we can do. Im just wondering what a possible board plan can look like against them or if its just a matchup where we pray for the best.

Quote from darkmater8 »

Hey guys so Ive been playing dredge at my LGS the past couple weeks to some success but i recent played a mtachup that literally feels like its determined by the die roll.
Belcher.
Im sorry if its been discussed already i must of skimmed over it but what exactly is our game plan against belcher. If i cant land a turn 1 therapy on the play it feels like there is nothing we can do. Im just wondering what a possible board plan can look like against them or if its just a matchup where we pray for the best.

Belcher is a faster combo deck so we really just have to try and race them by going off as soon as possible and slow them down with multiple therapies or hitting a blind therapy on turn 1 to buy us some time before they go off. If they go with Empty the Warrens, we might still have a small chance to go off and win but if they go with Belcher then there's really not much we can do about that. Postboard, you can put in Lotus Petal to help with speed and/or DR targets like Iona, FKZ/Kolaghan, or Flayer.

Vengeful Pharoah has seen play in Dredge decks on other formats but I can't think of any attacking creature in Legacy that we would want to trade our Bridges for. What targets were you able to get value off of the Pharoah during testing?

A large Tarmo sure is worth killing especially when your life total is in the red zone. It just sucks that Pharoah's ability doesn't have the word "may" in it. It would have been better if we had a choice whether to destroy the attacking creature that dealt damage to us (and exile all our bridges) or just keep all our bridges safe in the graveyard.

Vengeful Pharaoh has always been a fun one, hehe.

Good news, everyone! I have posted the new primer here in Legacy->Established->Combo. Go check it out when you like and feel free to start some discussions there whenever. I imagine this thread will be retired soon, so if I don't see you guys here again, I'll see you on the other side

Thank you all for your awesome contributions and I look forward to lots of discussions to come on the new thread! Don't be afraid to post suggestions for the new primer, either. I'm sure we can continue to improve upon it.

Peace, guys.

New version has been posted here. Accordingly, this thread is retired.
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