That's a spicy list. How was Dragonlord Kolaghan? It's nice to see a comeback of Deep Analysis in LED Dredge. Was thinking of adding one copy as well. I assume that your opponent played first with Double DRS opening? Double DRS and Spellbomb postboard sucks but that shouldn't happen too often (I hope).
I know! Deep Analysis has actually been very good to me so far. It gives you an easy flashback cost that I actually paid for off my lands when I needed to. Otherwise you can easily pay for it off of LED.
Unfortunately Kolaghan didn't see any action last night. My current list is very reanimation-light, as you can see, and I didn't have any good chances to DR the dragon. Still, I had more than one opponent actually tell me they were scared I was going to reanimate it, so I guess it was a psychological victory!
Edit: Yes, the Abzan Stoneblade player had game one turn 1 and 2 Shamans and the same in game two.
ant storm player here. just ordered the mainboard of this deck, should get it in about a week. some of the stuff overlaps with storm which is nice. i play legacy once in a while at a local shop. i mostly do modern though. anyway, when do we board in lotus petals? against combo? i'm guessing we're using them to speed ourselves up? the rest of the sideboarding plan seems easy to get. i'll read up on a few primers and goldfish a bunch of hands before playing at an event. i also need to order up a few more sideboard pieces.
anyway, just wanted to drop in and say hi.
Welcome! We are actually just waiting on the mods to update our main primer here, as the current one is super old, so look out for that hopefully sometime soon. The primer we have is still great though, so don't be afraid to read it and share any questions or doubts with us.
Lotus Petal, at least in my sideboard, is for two purposes, the first being the one that you stated already. If I think a deck is going to try and race me instead of hating on my graveyard, then the Petals can be great for casting multiple spells a turn and dredging in greater quantities. The Petals also help against decks running Daze, and can help you have the mana to either cast a sideboard card like Abrupt Decay, or cast both a sideboard card and an enabler on the same turn. An example of that could be casting both Nature's Claim and Faithless Looting on turn one.
Hmm.. That I'm not sure of. And honestly, I kinda don't want to remember haha! In 5 years time collecting, maybe I spent around 1000usd for all the foil dredge pieces that I currently have (including sideboard and manaless dredge).
No worries. Let me know if you need any help with the primer.
Dang, very nice. Have you played much Manaless Dredge recently? We might have to go spice up that thread as well
The next part of the primer that needs to be created is basically just the section with links to any good articles or videos, so if you know of any you'd like to include just let me know. Otherwise, feel free to write anything you really enjoy or feel you have mastered about Dredge and I will find a way to include it. Also, if you have any stories about really great plays, cool interactions, amazing records, good learning experiences, or any other personal anecdotes feel free to share those as well. I will of course include credit to you throughout the primer wherever you have contributed.
This offer also goes for anyone else who would like to be involved in the creation of our new primer. I know there are only a few of us active on here right now, but we might be able to generate some interest once we're allowed to take over the thread.
RE: Manaless
Honestly, I haven't played any Manaless at all. I just got a sweet deal from a friend of mine that included his foil Manaless cards.
RE: Primer
I'll see what I can do and send it over to you as soon as I can. Btw, I got a copy of a shiny elder dragon today and will start playtesting soon. I hope she gets a spot in Legacy like she does in Vintage right now.
I'm super jealous of all your foil cards, especially the Manaless ones that you aren't using
Awesome! The current status is "waiting for the ability to change the owner of the thread." This is currently not a function on the site, according to a moderator, but it should be in the next couple weeks.
I haven't played legacy since 2011 or so but I am down to get back in to it, especially after how screwed up modern has been. Back in the day I was playing LEDless Bloodghast Dredge. I've updated my list to what I hope is a more modern version of the deck. I'll post it but I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary.
What are some articles I can read about the current legacy metagame? I have a tournament next month I want to prepare for. I'll play games online but I'd also like some stuff to read up on, if you have good recommendations!
I don't think it matters very much. I just want to try Kolaghan out because I used to play FKZ for years and want to try something new and I like dragons.
Even though it won't be relevant, I like the idea that you can use DK as Ichorid food if you have to. FKZ's advantage is good because your dudes still get haste even if they kill it. Most of the time it won't matter as you will cabal therapy away their removal before returning it, but sometimes it might be relevant.
I will play Kolaghan for awhile, if I don't like it I'll just go back to FKZ.
I don't know if DK is better yet, and have done no testing yet with my new list.
I see that some lists don't have a haste enabler. This might be the better way to go, I don't know. The one thing I hate more than anything is passing the turn to someone when I have the game all but locked up and them getting a topdeck that wins them the game on the spot next turn. I hate losing like that more than anything, that's why I've decided to keep a haster reanimation target in.
I think it's a matter of preference. Both DK and FKZ have their own merits as a haste enabler. I will be testing DK in next week's tournament and see if I like her more than good old FKZ.
Well, Butcher, I would suggest that your best sources on the general Legacy metagame would be MTGSalvation and mtgtop8. You can see what decks are doing well in tournaments and you can read all the primers you'd like here on this site. I do not know of any articles specifically about our early 2016 metagame, but you could easily do a quick check on mtgtop8 and see things like Reanimator, Stoneblade, Elves, Delver, Pyromancer, and many other titans of the format are still around consistently. If you'd like to discuss specific matchups or anything, just let us know, and I for one will be glad to talk about those things.
As far as Flame-Kin Zealot versus Dragonlord Kolaghan, I have to agree that it is a matter of preference. They both seem equally good to me, though of course there will be certain situations in which one outperforms the other. Like you said, Butcher, I really like having the option to just "combo" and win, at least one game 1, with a Dread Return. However, it really bothers me that people call Dredge, especially the version I'm playing, a combo deck, because it's really not. It's just an extremely synergistic aggro deck.
Sideboarding is something you kinda have to learn by studying or practicing matchups, and more details can be found in the primer (as well as the new primer whenever we are able to post it). The main trick is usually just to anticipate what graveyard hate your opponent will board in, and then to choose your sideboarding accordingly. For example, against Storm or Grixis Pyromancer (two decks I regularly play against at my store) I sideboard in my two Memory's Journey because I expect to face Surgical Extraction. Other possible choices, depending on your personal sideboard, could include Street Wraith or Faerie Macabre.
Technically, you only have around 8 lands that can cast abrupt decay since coliseum doesn't produce BG. Additional lands and petals help with this problem. Clunky? Probably. But it does solve your most common graveyard hate problems these days. And it is uncountrable to boot.
Here's my usual sideboard plan based on the hate I will probably be facing:
Out: 1 breakthrough, 1 coliseum, 2 DR targets (Griselbrand and DK)
Artifact/Enchantment w/ Counter-magic: 2 petals and 2 decays
Artifact/Enchantment w/o Counter-magic: 2 claim and 2 chain
Creature w/ Counter-magic: 2 petals and 2 decays
Creature w/o Counter-magic: 2 firestorm and 2 chain
Mix of all hate w/ countermagic: 2 decay and 2 petals
Mix of all hate w/o countermagic: 2 claim and 2 firestorm
I don't have any answers against surgical because most of the time i can survive a couple of surgicals due to the fact that my opponents have very little understanding on how the archetype works. They think that we instantly lose if one of our components like dredgers or bridges or even recurring creatures get exiled. Most people don't like playtesting against dredge so they have very little experience against us. They just hope to dodge the match up entirely. This is also why I fell in love with this archetype.
thanks, that's a pretty good starting point. i'll adopt something similiar. ive always felt good sideboarding is the difference between 4-0 and 2-2 in competitive magic. little things go a long way.
is ruric thar too narrow for a sideboard slot?
oh and eternal masters just got announced too.
I don't have any answers against surgical because most of the time i can survive a couple of surgicals.....
Yeah we don't fear a single Surg. It slows us down sure, but an additional surg will definitely hurt enough for them to win, if they're smart.
I like Faerie Macabre too. I always favour cards that don't require permission, but I still have a hard time with Abrupt Decay.
It's fizzled for me so many times against normal decks, and getting the mana required against a taxing opponent is next to impossible.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Unfortunately Kolaghan didn't see any action last night. My current list is very reanimation-light, as you can see, and I didn't have any good chances to DR the dragon. Still, I had more than one opponent actually tell me they were scared I was going to reanimate it, so I guess it was a psychological victory!
Edit: Yes, the Abzan Stoneblade player had game one turn 1 and 2 Shamans and the same in game two.
I stopped playing it a while back, as with rainbow lands you can take -5 life just from a single dredge. Ouch!
But you forget, you get to dredge twice
So your deck is all foil? I'd like to see some pictures of that!
anyway, just wanted to drop in and say hi.
Lotus Petal, at least in my sideboard, is for two purposes, the first being the one that you stated already. If I think a deck is going to try and race me instead of hating on my graveyard, then the Petals can be great for casting multiple spells a turn and dredging in greater quantities. The Petals also help against decks running Daze, and can help you have the mana to either cast a sideboard card like Abrupt Decay, or cast both a sideboard card and an enabler on the same turn. An example of that could be casting both Nature's Claim and Faithless Looting on turn one.
I will probably make the following changes for my next tournament:
-1 Dread Return
-1 Flayer of the Hatebound
+1 Griselbrand
+1 Dragonlord Kolaghan
By the way, great suggestions for the primer. I've been making some improvements!
No worries. Let me know if you need any help with the primer.
The next part of the primer that needs to be created is basically just the section with links to any good articles or videos, so if you know of any you'd like to include just let me know. Otherwise, feel free to write anything you really enjoy or feel you have mastered about Dredge and I will find a way to include it. Also, if you have any stories about really great plays, cool interactions, amazing records, good learning experiences, or any other personal anecdotes feel free to share those as well. I will of course include credit to you throughout the primer wherever you have contributed.
This offer also goes for anyone else who would like to be involved in the creation of our new primer. I know there are only a few of us active on here right now, but we might be able to generate some interest once we're allowed to take over the thread.
Honestly, I haven't played any Manaless at all. I just got a sweet deal from a friend of mine that included his foil Manaless cards.
RE: Primer
I'll see what I can do and send it over to you as soon as I can. Btw, I got a copy of a shiny elder dragon today and will start playtesting soon. I hope she gets a spot in Legacy like she does in Vintage right now.
Awesome! The current status is "waiting for the ability to change the owner of the thread." This is currently not a function on the site, according to a moderator, but it should be in the next couple weeks.
I haven't played legacy since 2011 or so but I am down to get back in to it, especially after how screwed up modern has been. Back in the day I was playing LEDless Bloodghast Dredge. I've updated my list to what I hope is a more modern version of the deck. I'll post it but I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary.
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Golgari Thug
4x Putrid Imp
4x Narcomoeba
3x Ichorid
1x Dragonlord Kolaghan
2x Careful Study
4x Faithless Looting
4x Breakthrough
2x Dread Return
4x Bridge From Below
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Cephalid Coliseum
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Mana Confluence
1x City of Brass
1x Darkblast
2x Ingot Chewer
3x Wispmare
3x Firestorm
4x Noxious Revival
1x Ashen Rider
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
What are some articles I can read about the current legacy metagame? I have a tournament next month I want to prepare for. I'll play games online but I'd also like some stuff to read up on, if you have good recommendations!
Even though it won't be relevant, I like the idea that you can use DK as Ichorid food if you have to. FKZ's advantage is good because your dudes still get haste even if they kill it. Most of the time it won't matter as you will cabal therapy away their removal before returning it, but sometimes it might be relevant.
I will play Kolaghan for awhile, if I don't like it I'll just go back to FKZ.
I don't know if DK is better yet, and have done no testing yet with my new list.
I see that some lists don't have a haste enabler. This might be the better way to go, I don't know. The one thing I hate more than anything is passing the turn to someone when I have the game all but locked up and them getting a topdeck that wins them the game on the spot next turn. I hate losing like that more than anything, that's why I've decided to keep a haster reanimation target in.
As far as Flame-Kin Zealot versus Dragonlord Kolaghan, I have to agree that it is a matter of preference. They both seem equally good to me, though of course there will be certain situations in which one outperforms the other. Like you said, Butcher, I really like having the option to just "combo" and win, at least one game 1, with a Dread Return. However, it really bothers me that people call Dredge, especially the version I'm playing, a combo deck, because it's really not. It's just an extremely synergistic aggro deck.
anyone have a 15 card sideboarding plan they wouldnt mind sharing? like what they take out and put in for each matchup?
Sideboarding is something you kinda have to learn by studying or practicing matchups, and more details can be found in the primer (as well as the new primer whenever we are able to post it). The main trick is usually just to anticipate what graveyard hate your opponent will board in, and then to choose your sideboarding accordingly. For example, against Storm or Grixis Pyromancer (two decks I regularly play against at my store) I sideboard in my two Memory's Journey because I expect to face Surgical Extraction. Other possible choices, depending on your personal sideboard, could include Street Wraith or Faerie Macabre.
Here's my usual sideboard plan based on the hate I will probably be facing:
Out: 1 breakthrough, 1 coliseum, 2 DR targets (Griselbrand and DK)
Artifact/Enchantment w/ Counter-magic: 2 petals and 2 decays
Artifact/Enchantment w/o Counter-magic: 2 claim and 2 chain
Creature w/ Counter-magic: 2 petals and 2 decays
Creature w/o Counter-magic: 2 firestorm and 2 chain
Mix of all hate w/ countermagic: 2 decay and 2 petals
Mix of all hate w/o countermagic: 2 claim and 2 firestorm
The guide above is based on this sideboard:
2 nature's claim
2 chain of vapor
2 lotus petal
2 abrupt decay
2 firestorm
2 faerie macabre
1 iona
1 ashen rider
1 elesh norn
I don't have any answers against surgical because most of the time i can survive a couple of surgicals due to the fact that my opponents have very little understanding on how the archetype works. They think that we instantly lose if one of our components like dredgers or bridges or even recurring creatures get exiled. Most people don't like playtesting against dredge so they have very little experience against us. They just hope to dodge the match up entirely. This is also why I fell in love with this archetype.
is ruric thar too narrow for a sideboard slot?
oh and eternal masters just got announced too.
Yeah we don't fear a single Surg. It slows us down sure, but an additional surg will definitely hurt enough for them to win, if they're smart.
I like Faerie Macabre too. I always favour cards that don't require permission, but I still have a hard time with Abrupt Decay.
It's fizzled for me so many times against normal decks, and getting the mana required against a taxing opponent is next to impossible.