I've seen side boards play ashen rider. I don't really hate this, it his your opponent coming in and going to a cabal therapy. I've always been happy with some extra disruption, couple thoughtseize or maybe a singleton fow. I've ran chain of vapor in the board before because it feels bad to face a turn one or two elesh norn with no answers in your deck.
I run 1 Ashen Rider in my sideboard for show and tell. Apart from that, I try and take apart their hand with Therapies. With the exception of Elesh Norn, Stinkweed Imp trades with whatever they put into play off of a show and tell.
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Because of deathrite I've switched from breakthrough to tolarian winds. I feel it is sometimes a turn slower, however, it works without led and helps fight some other hate as well.
I've always wanted it play abrupt decay. Please let me know how it works out. Thanks.
Because of deathrite I've switched from breakthrough to tolarian winds. I feel it is sometimes a turn slower, however, it works without led and helps fight some other hate as well.
I've always wanted it play abrupt decay. Please let me know how it works out. Thanks.
Tolarian Winds
I don't understand how this is better in any way to Breakthrough, given we're typically running ~12 lands.
I quite frequently use Breakthrough whether I have LED or not.
Could you educate us how you use the card, especially with concern to "fighting hate"?
With looting effects you draw and then discard. You will have to cast 2 spells or wait for your draw step to dredge cards. This gives your opponent a chance to respond with cards like deathrite shaman. Tolarian winds discards then draws. Its all one effect, no chance to remove dredgers before you dredge them. Breakthrough requires another spell to be powerful. Putting cards in the graveyard requires a discard outlet, the best probably being led. Tolarian winds does all of the work itself.
I strongly recomend trying out more lands. I've been on 14 for some time and am very happy with it
You will lose more games due to Wraith not dredging enough than you will win games because your Wraith saved your only Dredger from DRS, at least that's what I have concluded after a lot of testing with Wraith.
....
Street Wraith is only good in a very narrow case, which is you are on the draw, your opponent has a turn 1 DRS, you have exactly one Dredger in your hand, and he gets the 50.50 right. In every other situation, Wraith is a terrible card, not being able to be used as a discard outlet and dredging only half as much as a Study.
...
I simply couldn't justify running Wraith in the main deck, because it is so terrible against fast decks.
I can understand where you're coming from, but I think you've failed to address a key reason why some of us use Wraith.
It's instant speed, so we can use it in the opponents' end step, setting up our next turn or in response to removal etc.
Unable to be countered by traditional means, it's also food for Icky (which isn't exactly plentiful in LED-Dredge lists)
In the past I've had many of my T1 and T2 plays countered by Daze, Force and the like to slow me down, rather than stop me right there and then. Wraith gets around this, at instant speed no less.
The whole point of Wraith to me in LED-Dredge, is removal. EVERYONE can run Surgical Extraction out of the SB. Wraith is a genuine answer to stopping you losing any of your dredgers early in the game, which we all know can be terminal. It's not all about DRS.
To me, the card makes a lot of sense.
You list looks fine but I'm personally not a fan of 3 Ichorids. I tried running 3 in one tournament and found I was missing my fourth 3/1 so much. It was likely because I often shave 1 copy of Ichorid when I'm playing against combo decks but going from 3 to 2 is very different from 4 to 3.
In the sideboard I recommend either Vapor Snag or Surgical Extraction for that last 2 slots. Snag is a catch all and a snag on the end step typically means a win on the following turn. Surgical Extraction because your list has no cards for opposing graveyard strategies. Reanimator is a difficult match up for Dredge and being able to remove Ichorids in the mirror is very useful.
This is my current sideboard. I prefer Evoke Creatures to Nature's Claim because they dodge Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm but I still run Claim as additional removal. I don't have Iona in the sideboard as I run her in the main deck to hedge against fast Combo decks. I have her instead of a fourth Breakthrough, but that's a personal choice and a meta call.
hey there fellow lovers of degenerate magic. took my LED dredge to legacy fnm, went 3-1 (technically 3-0 split prize, but i lost the games we played for points). here's the list.
the deck served me pretty well. The street wraiths are a bit of an experiment. so far the results have been mixed. it makes bringing back ichorids easier, and the instant draw is nice. but there were several hands i had to mull cause of no discard outlets. i'm gonna try them again when i get back from a trip. as far as the sideboard is concerned, it's nothing groundbreaking. it has two packages: the grindy package, which has things like firestorms, abrupt decays, and the lands. i bring these in to fight decks that will play fair and bring in tonnes of hate. In these matchups i take out the leds, breakthroughs, and a street wraith. then i have the fast package, which is basically the lotus petals and specific cards (ashen rider vs show n tell decks, surgical vs dredge) for the unfair matchups that will just try to race me.
we have a great legacy scene here in toronto, diverse decks, legacy every friday at face to face. I'll update this post with a full on match report once i find my notes.
Match 1: me vs show n tell (2-1 for me)
Game 1: not much to say here. i had faithless looting into t2 looting +breakthrough. therapied him before casting breakthrough to see if the coast was clear, saw sneak attack + emrakul, knew what he was on.
Game 2: I keep a really, really slow hand. very nearly kill him, setting up a massive zombie horde by about turn 4 or 5, and i get killed by show and tell into griselbrand, then sneak attack into emrakul.
game 3: i punt huge here. my opening is land, cabal therapy, ichorid, ggt, breakthrough, led, lotus petal. my plan is therapy force of will and go nuts. i punt hard and crack led without stacking it properly. still end up just rolling the guy.
sb plan: pretty much just brought in ashen rider and 3 petals for 2 putrid imps, 1 ichorid and golgari thug
Match two, omnitell (2-1 for me)
game 1: we both have some super weird games. i dredge hard but find no narcomoebas,it takes me a while to start dredging (thanks to street wraith not discarding:S) and he takes forever to find combo pieces. eventually i managed to get the train rolling and crush him.
game 2: i kept a hand with a dredger and looting, and draw into ashen rider. i also drew an led, but i pretty much figured i wouldn't use it since i wanted to hold on to ashen rider. then he drops a young pyromancer and makes a few tokens. i'm totally surprised by this, and i then go crazy with the LED, pitching the rider, and making a huge zombie horde. Unfortunately, this opened me up to an eventual show and tell kill.
Game 3: i bring in a darkblast this time, but the whole match came down to who was on the play (me). we both had turn two kills. i t1, loot, t2 cabal therapy, goign to name show and tell, he brainstorms and i'm pretty sure he hides it on top of his library. so i name fow, hit, and see he has the t2 kill. land, led, breakthrough, and the game is over. flip over three narcomoebas, 3 bridges, dread return and flamekin.
SB: Same plan as with sneak and show, but i brought in a darkblast for his yp. maybe this was wrong.
Match 3, death and taxes (2-0 for me)
Game 1: not much to say, i went off turn two again.. (turn 1 faithless, draw into t2 led, breakthrough,flip my library).
game 2: he mulls to 6, i keep a fairly resilient seven: faithless, ichorid, stinkweed, a few other draw spells. i don't see any sb cards, but i have 2 cabal therapies. He starts t1 vial, so i start of cabal therapy, name rest in peace. i look at his hand, it's got land, swords to plowshares, vial, sword of fire and ice. He draws a spirit of the labyrinth, and this is probably the most interesting part of the match: Apparently, spirit of the labyrinth works pretty much in our favour: we can dredge as many times as we like, until we decide not to replace a draw with a dredge. After that, we can no longer dredge in the turn. My opponent thought this would work differently and never found any hate. I played super slow, rying not to dump too much into my graveyard until i had a big enough zombie horde that the game was pretty much in my favour.
Sb plan: take out the breakthroughs, leds, and a street wraith for firestorms, abrupt decay, nature's claim and two lands.
Me vs burn (0-2)
game 1: i don't know what he's on, i keep a hand that involves me taking about 5 damage to start going off (mana confluence, faithless, pay 2 life for wraith). He was on the play and crushed me.
game 2: i'm on the play, but i don't keep the fastest hand. He blows up a bridge and I can't get going too fast, he kills me with a bunch of rift bolts. I should have mulled to an LED hand.
SB: just bringing in the lotus petals for both putrid imps and an ichorid.
All in all i had a great time, got more ppieces for legacy elves and am close to getting some foils for dredge
So I'm planning to attend a SCG IQ this weekend in hopes of qualifying for the New Jersey Invitational.
My main deck is a slight variant of Quadlaser. I'm maindecking 1 Darkblast because I feel Young Pyromancer decks are getting a little too popular on MTGO and I'm not sure how big they are in paper.
I like my main deck but with regards to my sideboard, I just can't decide on what anti-hate package I want to bring. I have 7 slots to work with, the rest of my sideboard I'm happy with.
I'm not sure what the meta will be. If anyone plays at Curio Cavern and can give me a better idea of what to prepare for I'd greatly appreciate it. I haven't been to the store in a really long time.
Thoughts?
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Elesh Norn is for Elves, Infect, and the Mirror. While I should normally be faster, I still like having a little bit of extra insurance. With the rise of Young Pyromancer Elesh Norn is getting a bit better.
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Round 1 vs Elves
Game 1: discard 2 Trolls to Careful Study. Didn't hit a single third dredger off of them. Or an Ichorid. Or a Therapy. Or a Bridge. I did hit 2 Narcomoebas. My opponent went off fairly unimpeded on like turn 3 or 4.
Game 2: Turn 1 Iona. GG
Game 3: Did not get good Dredges. Opponent lands turn 2 Scooze + Gaea's Cradle. Never really had a chance.
0-1
Round 2 vs Jund
Game 1: They start with a fetch for a basic forest and don't play a red source until like turn 5. They play Scooze on turn 2 so I Upkeep Darkblast, dredge is back, finish off Scooze. I just get on the zombie beats and win from there.
Game 2: They go turn 1 DRS, turn 2 Scooze. I don't have a fast enough start to overcome their hate. I die getting hit by an 8/8 Scooze.
Ganme 3: I Firestorm some stuff away. Get on zombie beats. Outrace them. Never see hate post firestorm.
1-1
Round 3 vs Death & Taxes (Paired up)
Game 1: Turn 1 Iona.
Game 2: I Therapy a RIP on t1. Firestorm away a SFM and C-Priest on turn 3. Firestorm a second SFM on t4. NO DREDGERS. I die to Brimaz beats and a germ token.
Game 3: Therapy away the RIP on t1 again. Have much better Dredges. Putrid Imp to discard stuff and loot the following turn.
2-1
Round 4 vs Burn (Only undefeated player)
Game 1: I Iona on turn 1.
Game 2: I kept a hand with no dredgers but quite a few loot effects and a LED. His turn 1 Goblin Guide gives me a land and I draw a Troll for my turn. I lead with Putrid Imp and get to go off and Dread Return Iona on my second turn.
3-1
Cut to top 4. Top 8 got prizes. We in the top 4 chose to split and then had to play for the Invite.
Semifinals vs Abzan
I ask him if he wants to play and myself and my round 4 opponent tell him where the 2 upcoming Invitationals are. He doesn't plan to go to any of them so he agrees to concede to me though we play out 2 games for fun.
Game 1: I dredge, not well. He gets an active Scooze. Doesn't end well. 4 Counters on Scooze + Sword of Light and Shadow.
Game 2: Get mediocre dredges, we don't get to finish the game as the other semifinal match ended but he had a strong board state, I would probably lose.
4-1
Finals vs Burn (my round 4 opponent)
Game 1: I combo out fast I think like turn 2 or 3 and he concedes.
Game 2: I have a really slow start and don't hit many Bridges or Ichorids he's able to burn me out. He had brought in Searing Bloods which I found odd as you typically don't want to a Dredge player's creatures.
Game 3: I mull to 4 keeping Gemstone Mine, Mana Confluence, Careful Study, and Breakthrough. The Study hits a Troll and a Coliseum. Turn 2 I play Coliseum and cast Breakthrough dredging a lot. Turn 3 I got to activate Coliseum and he concedes.
5-1
One very important thing to note. I never played against a Blue deck which I felt was really strange. There was at least 1 Miracles, 1 Omnitell, and 1 BUG player but I was never paired against them. The top 4 didn't have a single Island. I was really glad my semis opponent agreed to concede as I feel Abazan is a terrible match up for Dredge. The other Semifinal match was my round 1 opponent (Elves) vs my round 4 (Burn) so either way its a rematch and Elves is toss up (as first seed I get to play) and Burn is very favored so I was confident I could win the invite and I did.
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Round 1 vs Elves
Game 1: discard 2 Trolls to Careful Study. Didn't hit a single third dredger off of them. Or an Ichorid. Or a Therapy. Or a Bridge. I did hit 2 Narcomoebas. My opponent went off fairly unimpeded on like turn 3 or 4.
Game 2: Turn 1 Iona. GG
Game 3: Did not get good Dredges. Opponent lands turn 2 Scooze + Gaea's Cradle. Never really had a chance.
0-1
Round 2 vs Jund
Game 1: They start with a fetch for a basic forest and don't play a red source until like turn 5. They play Scooze on turn 2 so I Upkeep Darkblast, dredge is back, finish off Scooze. I just get on the zombie beats and win from there.
Game 2: They go turn 1 DRS, turn 2 Scooze. I don't have a fast enough start to overcome their hate. I die getting hit by an 8/8 Scooze.
Ganme 3: I Firestorm some stuff away. Get on zombie beats. Outrace them. Never see hate post firestorm.
1-1
Round 3 vs Death & Taxes (Paired up)
Game 1: Turn 1 Iona.
Game 2: I Therapy a RIP on t1. Firestorm away a SFM and C-Priest on turn 3. Firestorm a second SFM on t4. NO DREDGERS. I die to Brimaz beats and a germ token.
Game 3: Therapy away the RIP on t1 again. Have much better Dredges. Putrid Imp to discard stuff and loot the following turn.
2-1
Round 4 vs Burn (Only undefeated player)
Game 1: I Iona on turn 1.
Game 2: I kept a hand with no dredgers but quite a few loot effects and a LED. His turn 1 Goblin Guide gives me a land and I draw a Troll for my turn. I lead with Putrid Imp and get to go off and Dread Return Iona on my second turn.
3-1
Cut to top 4. Top 8 got prizes. We in the top 4 chose to split and then had to play for the Invite.
Semifinals vs Abzan
I ask him if he wants to play and myself and my round 4 opponent tell him where the 2 upcoming Invitationals are. He doesn't plan to go to any of them so he agrees to concede to me though we play out 2 games for fun.
Game 1: I dredge, not well. He gets an active Scooze. Doesn't end well. 4 Counters on Scooze + Sword of Light and Shadow.
Game 2: Get mediocre dredges, we don't get to finish the game as the other semifinal match ended but he had a strong board state, I would probably lose.
4-1
Finals vs Burn (my round 4 opponent)
Game 1: I combo out fast I think like turn 2 or 3 and he concedes.
Game 2: I have a really slow start and don't hit many Bridges or Ichorids he's able to burn me out. He had brought in Searing Bloods which I found odd as you typically don't want to a Dredge player's creatures.
Game 3: I mull to 4 keeping Gemstone Mine, Mana Confluence, Careful Study, and Breakthrough. The Study hits a Troll and a Coliseum. Turn 2 I play Coliseum and cast Breakthrough dredging a lot. Turn 3 I got to activate Coliseum and he concedes.
5-1
One very important thing to note. I never played against a Blue deck which I felt was really strange. There was at least 1 Miracles, 1 Omnitell, and 1 BUG player but I was never paired against them. The top 4 didn't have a single Island. I was really glad my semis opponent agreed to concede as I feel Abazan is a terrible match up for Dredge. The other Semifinal match was my round 1 opponent (Elves) vs my round 4 (Burn) so either way its a rematch and Elves is toss up (as first seed I get to play) and Burn is very favored so I was confident I could win the invite and I did.
Your report has put a huge smile on my face. Everyone says blue is the colour you should play if you want to win, yet your tournment's top 4 players didn't have a single island (you may have had careful study but that is just faithless looting 5-8 so it doesn't count lol).
Your report it is also getting me interested in getting invested into Dredge. My friends have recently told me they do not like my OmniTell deck as they cannot fight it, so out on the look out for another deck to add to my collection.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Dredge is a fun deck. Its the only deck that abuses the graveyard in that fashion. Its one of the 3 "engine" based decks of Legacy along with Elves and Enchantress. Though they operate differently, they feel similar. Dredge is a easy deck to pick up and can ignore most of what your opponent is doing, but its really difficult to play properly.
I'm not entirely sure the exact number of blue vs non-blue decks at the IQ but it was the smallest non-win-a-box constructed event I've played in.
If your friends are complaining that they can't fight OmniTell it just means they don't know how to and need to get better at building sideboards.
The thing about investing in Dredge is that very few of the cards see play in other decks. Apart from Therapy, LED, and Careful Study, everything is deck specific.
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Congratz on your finish. How did 1 Iona+1 DR work for you? It seems really unreliable to hit both (roughly a 25% chance to hit both in the top half of your deck), though it seems like you got there a few times.
She's there as a hedge against combo decks just to lock them out if I'm not able to kill them on that specific turn. Being an Auto-win against Burn helped as he just scooped whenever I had Iona + DR in the graveyard before I ever reanimated her. I get a lot of concessions to DR in yard, flashback therapy, especially if Iona is also in there.
The games where I do hit both I tend to win on the spot, typically because I've just exploded on turn 1 or turn 2 and have milled over half my deck and few opponents want to continue against a Dredge player after they generated that much card advantage.
I wouldn't run FKZ over her because while both win me games the turn they come down, I don't need zombies to win with Iona.
I would have won game 1 vs Elves if I had a third creature as I had 2 Nacomoebas with Iona + DR in yard but I never got it. Locking them out of green would have left them with just a field of 1/1s and a 2/2.
When it happens I win, when it doesn't I still tend to win. I've only ever lost 1 game where I reanimated Iona and thats because I named the wrong color.
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Chalk up another IQ Top 8 for Dredge. Not gonna do a full report unless people want me to.
Round 1 vs UWR Stoneblade/Delver
2-0 win
Round 2 vs Lands (with maindeck Bojuka Bog)
0-2 loss
Round 3 vs Reaninmator
2-1 win
Round 4 vs Blue Brew - it was a Monoblue deck with Serum Powder, Misthollow Griffin, Ensoul Artifact, Phyrexian Metamorph, Stratus Dancer, and TNN. Had traditional anti-combo artifacts in Chalice and T-Sphere.
2-0 win
Round 5 vs RIP-Helm Miracles
Intentional draw into top 8
3-1-1 in Swiss, started top 8 at 4th seed.
Quarterfinals vs Death and Taxes
2-1 win
Semifinals vs ANT
2-0 win
Finals vs RUG Delver
Technically Loss. We agreed to split the cash & credit and they get the extra Open Series Point for getting first as they are vying for top 16 in the season and I already have my invite.
Overall
5-2-1 after split.
I've got one more IQ before my next SCG Open.
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I agree with Izor, most game I've lost was because I mulled myself to death (I'm on LEDless with 15 lands for now).
I played a lot with a Quadlaser list last fall, didn't like it, I mulled too much.
Went back to the LEDless but still, mulligan is a real issue.
I used to think 15 was the perfect number of lands, but that was when tarnished citadel was in the 75.
I don't know the math but, is there a "real" advantage at playing 16 lands instead of 15 now with confluence available?
I just finished playing the in 5K at SCG Baltimore. Did not do well. I had to mulligan far more often than I would have liked and I'd say I lost at least 3 games if not more due to having to mulligan to oblivion.
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That would be a deck oriented at "Get Dredger into grave yard" and "pay mana for draw spell" G1
and game 2 = "cast answer to hate" and "cast enabler/draw spell ".
Game 1 against fair deck the list is ok anyway because we draw/dredge 6 cards a turn anyway, no need for DR
Game2 is another story but 16 mana source might be enough to play any spell needed to anwer hate and resume dredging and win.
EDIT2: In other news, Dredge may be the single deck that profits most from the new mulligan rule. So let's all hope they implement it for all kinds of tournament play after PT Origins.
Thought I'd drop it here for anyone; 103.4. Each player draws a number of cards equal to his or her starting hand size, which is normally seven. (Some effects can modify a player’s starting hand size.) A player who is dissatisfied with his or her initial hand may take a mulligan. First, the starting player declares whether or not he or she will take a mulligan. Then each other player in turn order does the same. Once each player has made a declaration, all players who decided to take mulligans do so at the same time. To take a mulligan, a player shuffles his or her hand back into his or her library, then draws a new hand of one fewer cards than he or she had before. If a player kept his or her hand of cards, those cards become the player’s opening hand, and that player may not take any further mulligans. This process is then repeated until no player takes a mulligan. (Note that if a player’s hand size reaches zero cards, that player must keep that hand.) Then, beginning with the starting player and proceeding in turn order, any player whose opening hand has fewer cards than his or her starting hand size may scry 1.
Gotta admit, that bit in bold does sound mighty for storm and fast combo too. Very interesting!!
Friday trial record 3-1, day 1 record 7-2, day 2 record 5-1.
I'd like to start by thanking everybody in this forum. My deck was strongly influenced by the discussion you guys have been having here and I've always found it very helpful when making my card choices. I haven't written here before, since I never felt I had anything new to contribute and this post is not different in that sense: my card choices and general ideas about strategy and matchups were all discussed here at some point. However, I'm hoping to condense and highlight the stuff that popped up in the tournament and testing as more important than I first expected. I also included a more traditional match by match tournament report.
But first, let me start with my card choices that some people may find unconventional or suboptimal.
As you can see from my deck list, my main deck was basically the quadlazer build with Iona in the main. I've been running this configuration for about 6 months now and I really like it. Some people have questioned if having a dedicated reanimation target with only one Dread Return is too inconsistent. If the general game plan was to reanimate Iona in every game, I would have to agree that it probably is. But at the same time Iona was one of the highest overperformers during the weekend winning me games I had no place winning otherwise. The reason I really like Iona, is that it gives you an out in games that you are otherwise sure to lose and in other games reanimating it always gives you a giant evasive beater. It gives you additional percentage points in two ways:
It wins games with that have the following typical structure: You lose the die roll, your opponent plays a 1 drop creature, you mill half of your deck on turn 1 but don't hit enough Narcomoebas or therapies to make a zombie army, turn 2 your opponent passes with mana up and at the end of your draw step bolts his/her 1 drop to exile 3 of your bridges. Normally the Ichorid beats might not be enough to win this game because of things like Angler, Tarmogoyf or swords to plowshares but using your Ichorids and Narcs to reanimate Iona on turn 2 almost always is.
Iona wins grindy games against Miracles, BUG Decks, D&T and even Omnitell, where you end up milling 2/3 of your deck and zombie beats are often not good enough or your bridges get exiled. The best 2 properties of Iona are that it is incredibly hard to remove for most of the decks and it completely shuts down the game plan of many of the matchups I've found to be our worst. It is also always good alone and doesn't require you to have leftovers after reanimating it (compare to Flame-Kin Zealot). It opens lines like narcomoeba/ichorid->therapy->3 zombies from birdges->Iona that could be very risky because of removal or just not good enough with other reanimation targets but are almost certain to win with Iona.
Memory's Journey in the sideboard was a late addition. I was really impressed by it and I highly recommend you to try it, if Grixis/4c delver, mentor decks and merfolk continue to be popular. It allows you to trade creatures without fear of losing your bridges in matchups where your opponent is able to flood the board with random dorks. I got my mind blown when my friend noted that I can stack the triggers from the bridge in the usual way after trading an Ichorid or a Narc, let the zombie trigger resolve and then in response to the bridge's exile trigger cast memory's journey to shuffle in your bridges. This must have been obvious to everybody else but I completely missed this line in one of the games I played during the weekend. The card gives also a nice insurance plan against both relic and surgical extraction which both seem to be very popular in the current metagame. And there is more! It even works as a disruption spell against other graveyard decks!
I was also on the controversial lotus petal plan after sideboard against most non-blue and combo decks as well as miracles. I've been doing this for a year now and I've been really impressed by the effect of the added speed when you don't need to play around too many counterspells. I feel that miracles and combo decks like reanimator and storm become slightly favorable matchups because of this plan. During the tournament I had one turn 1 kill on the draw and multiple turn 2 kills or concessions that would have never happened without the lotus petals. Most hands that contain the card have a one turn faster goldfish that is often more resilient to disruption due to the ability to cast 2 spells during the same turn.
I believe that the rest of the sideboard is relatively standard - especially, if you play lotus petals. I was very lucky during the tournament and never had to cast a single Nature's Claim even though I boarded them in piously against most of the fair decks. I tested the "Abrupt Decay and extra land" plan in GP NJ and found it way too inconsistent for my play style because of the double mana cost. Since I dodged permanent based graveyard hate for most of the tournament, I cannot really say if I like the Nature's Claims much more than I like the Decays but at least I could have cast them every time I drew them. People also seemed to play relics much more than Cages/RIPs and neither Claim nor Decay is very good against Relic. Hence, there might be a case for cutting down on Claims, if you have a card you'd like to add to the board.
Firestorm was probably the most valuable card of my sideboard. The card just laughs at random fair decks that think they can win with hands full of Force of Wills and Flusterstorms. I used to think that the card is somewhat underwhelming but I stand corrected. I will never leave home without at least 3 of these in the future.
Then to the actual tournament report. My memory of the games I played and their order is a bit fuzzy but I'll try my best to convey at least the excitement I experienced throughout the two days.
On Friday, we decided to take it relatively easy and play a trial and maybe draft a little and then go have dinner in Lille. In the trial I beat BUG or Grixis delver round 1 (don't quite remember anymore), Infect round 2, Goblins round 3 and then lost to really bad misplays and punts against RUG Delver in the semis. This was the only time when punting actually cost me a match. Otherwise the deck was so incredible that no matter how much I punted, I was always able find a new line that would pull me back in the game. 90% of this is of course due to being stupidly lucky but it's hard to be lucky, if you're playing a ham sandwich.
I had one bye for the main event and got to sell some rotating standard cards and watch as my friend bully his round 1 opponent with a sweet triple VClique draw (one of them was a phantasmal image) from his merfolk deck stealing all the stoneforged batterskulls and jittes.
My own tournament started as poorly as it can start with 2 losses first against Miracles and then against D&T. I think I was at least 90% favorite to win the game 3 against Miracles by reanimating Iona on my turn 3 with the information from a previous therapy that my opponent had pure air in his hand. However, a top decked relic foiled this whole plan and made sure I could not refill my yard before he found entreat to finish me off.
Game 1 against death and taxes felt similarly favorable but a timely second Mirran Crusader doubled my opponent's clock just when it was too late to revise my game plan of one-shot swarming him through his defences and let him win one turn before my zombie apocalypse. After these losses I was very close to dropping and joining a MM2015 draft but decided to play a few more games to see how the deck plays against non-white decks. I still think that D&T is one of our worst matchups and if you guys have figured out a good, consistent plan against them, I'd really like to hear it.
The next three matchups were pseudo byes in the form of Abzan good stuff (didn't see knights or any of the other maverick stuff), Sam Black's Zombardment with white replaced by Vengevines and Jund. After quickly winning game 1 against Abzan, I sideboarded into the speed plan with lotus petals, extra dread return and additional reanimation targets and was rewarded with a turn 1 Flame-Kin Zealot win on the draw with my opponent staring in disbelief at the Containment Priest, double Swords to Plowshares and Scooze in his hand. Without the petals, I would have never beaten the hand. The Zombardment deck put up a good fight in the sideboarded games with multiple surgicals. But in game 3 my hand was just too fast for a single surgical to matter.
If I remember correctly, after that I played the next 2 matches against shardless bug. All of the games were fairly close and I even lost game 1 in the second match to double Deathrite. However, fast and disruption resistant hands were able to pull me through the other two games. I think that match was a very lucky anomaly given how much hate he was packing. The second match was also the one where after the game was over my friend showed me the light by telling me that I should have sequenced my memory's journey in the trivially "correct" way that I mentioned above. In the game I just cast it before damage to protect my bridges even though I remember thinking about the two bridge triggers for a few seconds but somehow just did not put 2 and 2 together. At that point I was so far ahead that I did not need the 4 missed zombies but my way of sequencing was nevertheless clearly suboptimal.
The last 2 matches of the day were against Infect and Omnitell. I win game 1 against infect with a double draw spell + LED hand digging me into Iona on green. Game 2 he lands a turn 1 Cage and I don't have enough time to find my Nature's Claims. Game 3 he snap keeps but plays nothing on turn 1. I'm 90% sure he's clutching on a Crop Rotation and therapy for that on turn 1. He decides not to spell pierce the therapy in hope of piercing a future therapy and shakes his head when I blind name Rotation. After that I reanimate Iona again on turn 3 after ripping the rest of his hand apart and the game is over.
Suddenly, to my own surprise, I'm again playing a win and in and very much expecting to continue my time honored tradition of going 6-3 in gps. This expectation is strengthened when I realize that I'm playing against Omnitel, a matchup I really hadn't played against. However, this time my deck really delivers. Game 1 I have a very nice and counter resistant draw that puts the game away so fast that my opponent doesn't get anything going. I mulligan to 5 or 6 in game 2 and keep a hand that is way too soft to counterspells. My opponent reads this correctly and doesn't let me cast my first draw spell making me play manaless dredge for a while. I don't even find dredgers for the first few turns and my opponent gets to durdle with his infinite ponders, preordains and brainstorms for at least 7 turns before Omnicasting a Spaghetti Monster to bash my face in.
In game 3 I'm on the play keeping again a very fast hand which was I remember being again a bit vulnerable to countermagic but otherwise the pure nuts. On turn 1 I just make him have the FOW. Since he doesn't have it, I go crazy, flipping 2/3 of my deck in the yard. I mill perfectly except I hit only 1 therapy. I know by looking at my yard and battlefield that on turn 3 I can swing for lethal. I also know that my opponent is not holding a force of will, since he didn't force my draw spells. However, it's been a long day and I completely blank on what I should name and choose Flusterstorm, because that was used to foil my plans in game 2. This was a huge punt. The only way I can lose the game from my current position is with a fast show and tell into omniscience into release the ants. Hence, the correct name would have been show and tell. Even Spell Pierce would have been better, since it's far more numerous in the deck than Flusterstorm. I almost get punished for my punt with my opponent show and telling an Emrakul on turn 2. However, the zombies, ichorids and my 9/9, show and told Grave-Troll are enough to push through the spaghetti monster before it gets to attack. I cannot believe that my much maligned 500 dollar pile put me into day 2. Andrea Mengucci, who was randomly watching the game, flashes a priceless, approving grin after my opponent scoops to my attack.
Day 2 starts with my nigh unbeatable draws against RUG Delver and 4-color Delver. The game 1 draw against the latter is so fast that my opponent scoops on my turn 2 to Cabal Therapy without showing me more than 2 Volcanics, a Ponder and a Brainstorm. Because of the durdles I put him on Omnitel and misboard terribly but still get him on turn 3 through a wall of countermagic with a Cephalid Coliseum activation.
My third game on day 2 is against Grixis Delver. This was the only time the deck really fizzled during the whole weekend. Game 1 I keep a 6 card hand that has only 1 draw spell and 1 land. The worst case scenario happens. I get my draw spell countered and the land wastelanded leaving me playing draw and go for 3 turns. At that point a young pyromancer & company and a delver are enough to get the job done. Game 2 I keep a hand that I thought was unbeatable, including a careful study, 2 lands, a faithless looting and a firestorm but zero dredgers. The unlikey ultimate fizzle happens and I cast 4 draw spells before the fifth finds my first dredger. At this point it is already too late and I die again to elemental beats. I made a slight misplay in this game when on my last turn I did not sac the putrid imp I had found to cabal therapy to generate 3 zombies that could have blocked some elementals and given me another turn. I completely forgot that the Pimp can't block. Nevertheless, I was so behind at that point that the correct play wouldn't have probably changed anything.
The fourth match of the day is probably both the best and the worst magic match I've ever played. Best, because the game was extremely intense and crazy. Worst because I punted almost every turn especially in the second game in ways that are ex-post completely incomprehensible. I have a very strong hand in game 1 with an LED, multiple draw spells and a couple of dredgers. My opponent opens with a thoughtseize and takes the LED. I dump a couple of dredgers in the yard with a careful study after which she reanimates my Stinkweed Imp. I realize that her hand cannot be very good but it must have multiple reanimation spells for her wanting to waste one on an imp. I make it a priority to get some cabal therapies going and succeed in stripping her hand of an Exhume (?). In the process my zombie army grows and the game is over unless she is able to reanimate the Elesh-Norn she was able to dump from a careful study. Lucky for me, the reanimation spell she finally top decks is an Exhume and not Reanimate and allows me to replace my zombies with a 5/5 Iona to deliver the last 10 points of damage.
In game 2 she plays a turn 1 Show and Tell dropping an Empyrial Archangel in play. Again, I'm relatively lucky with a best-response Stinkweed Imp as the only reasonable creature in my grip. I attack with my Imp to kill the angel but she is able to reanimate it on her next turn. Then start the punts. Since, I have an Ashen Rider in my yard, I take it as my first goal to reanimate that and kill the big bad angel. The plan works incredibly well up to the point when I try to target the angel with my ETB effect. I get my warning for an illegal game action and get completely flustered. I'm still able to slow my opponent down by stripping her of her only blue source with the ETB effect. However, in the process my Ashen Rider mysteriously vanishes. For a few days now, I've been trying to figure out what happened to it. I have no recollection of it dying, blocking or taking any part in combat for that matter. I must have gotten so flustered from the warning that I put the angel on the side of the battlefield and forgot it there.
Well... Who needs a 5/5 flyer or its LTB effect when you have infinite zombies, right? I take a few hits from the angel while filling my board with zombies to be able to beat the angel back to its grave. However, the process is one turn too slow and I'm forced to reanimate a flyer to block. The punts continue. At the time I was constantly discarding to hand size and the obvious correct play would have been to discard a Stinky instead of a Grave-Troll and reanimate that. I realize this too late and I'm forced to reanimate a Fearie Macabre to block while holding a fistful of Stinky Imps. Luckily, the Faerie is enough of a speed bump and the angel dies to my swarm.
This does not mean that I'm done with the punts. I've been ripping her hand of relevant action with therapies when gathering my zombie army. I know 2 of her 3 card hand (Griselbrand and Flusterstorm) and cast another therapy. She responds with an Entomb for Elesh-Norn. Wanna guess, if I name Flusterstorm with my Therapy? Exhume is as good as any other card, right? Luckily, this does not end up mattering, since she fails to top deck a reanimation spell on her turn and my now giant zombie army one-shots her the next turn. I think the reanimator matchup shouldn't generally be this good but the lotus petal plan helps a lot by generating a considerable early pressure making reanimate much worse and getting your therapies alive as early as possible.
My last 2 games are against Merfolk and Miracles. Even though merfolk has probably the best main deck hate card against us in Curse Catcher, the matchup is still pretty brutal. As I mentioned earlier, my friend also plays the deck and hence I've got a lot of practice against it. Swarming the board early with zombies is usually enough to completely outvalue them and memory's journey helps here a lot allowing for more trades and helping you to play around Relic. After a very fast game 2 where I beat Chalice on 1 and two counterspells in 3 turns my opponent shows me his sideboard that contains 3 propagandas, 2 relics and a cage. I think I wouldn't have stood a chance with my 1 land, had he been able to resolve a Propaganda. The Miracles games are both over in 3 turns. The lotus petal strategy really proves its worth in the second game where my opponent is completely unable to set up shop before I therapy away a FOW and reanimate an Iona on white to win me the game. No other reanimation target would have won the game as reliably as Iona in that spot.
All in all, I punted like there was no tomorrow throughout the weekend but still ended up being incredibly lucky to finish as well as I did. People seem to be really skimping on their graveyard hate and play more value oriented hate pieces like Relics that are not very efficient against us. It's a good time to be a dredger!
So with the rise of Mentor Miracles how have people been adapting because I've been struggling to beat them. Regular Miracles was annoying to play through but if you knew the match up it was about even.
With Mentor they not only have a much faster clock but they can gum up the board so much easier and block much more freely.
This is the list I'm currently running and I'm planning to play the deck in the DC Open next weekend.
Hey guys,
Shopping around for a cheap legacy deck and all roads seem to be leading back to Dredge. Is this a viable deck now? Which is best: LED Dredge, Non-LED Dredge, or Manaless Dredge? Thanks.
Well, i have a feeling most of us here would say LED Dredge is the way to go, given that manaless has its own thread and Non-LED really hasn't done anything in a while. The way my friends like to describe the card: "black lotus, with an upside." And we get to play 4.
As for how well dredge is positioned? It's iffy. the blue decks are playing dig through time, so they need their yards, and some of the non interactive decks are kind of popular (wooh storm). On the other hand, Aggro Loam is a beating in my experience, and that is also gaining steam around here.
I went 3-1 in a legacy challenge at GP London the other day, same list as a few posts up only -darkblast for another claim in the board. I'll write up a report when i get a second. Mostly stoked cause i managed to get foil coliseums signed by John Avon, and some ichorids signed.
-Anonymous
I've always wanted it play abrupt decay. Please let me know how it works out. Thanks.
Tolarian Winds
I don't understand how this is better in any way to Breakthrough, given we're typically running ~12 lands.
I quite frequently use Breakthrough whether I have LED or not.
Could you educate us how you use the card, especially with concern to "fighting hate"?
FWIW, I'm running a couple Street Wraith in the main which is pretty good at nullifying Deathrite Shaman.
I strongly recomend trying out more lands. I've been on 14 for some time and am very happy with it
I can understand where you're coming from, but I think you've failed to address a key reason why some of us use Wraith.
It's instant speed, so we can use it in the opponents' end step, setting up our next turn or in response to removal etc.
Unable to be countered by traditional means, it's also food for Icky (which isn't exactly plentiful in LED-Dredge lists)
In the past I've had many of my T1 and T2 plays countered by Daze, Force and the like to slow me down, rather than stop me right there and then. Wraith gets around this, at instant speed no less.
The whole point of Wraith to me in LED-Dredge, is removal. EVERYONE can run Surgical Extraction out of the SB. Wraith is a genuine answer to stopping you losing any of your dredgers early in the game, which we all know can be terminal. It's not all about DRS.
To me, the card makes a lot of sense.
In the sideboard I recommend either Vapor Snag or Surgical Extraction for that last 2 slots. Snag is a catch all and a snag on the end step typically means a win on the following turn. Surgical Extraction because your list has no cards for opposing graveyard strategies. Reanimator is a difficult match up for Dredge and being able to remove Ichorids in the mirror is very useful.
This is my current sideboard. I prefer Evoke Creatures to Nature's Claim because they dodge Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm but I still run Claim as additional removal. I don't have Iona in the sideboard as I run her in the main deck to hedge against fast Combo decks. I have her instead of a fourth Breakthrough, but that's a personal choice and a meta call.
1x Dread Return
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3x Firestorm
3x Ingot Chewer
2x Nature's Claim
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Wispmare
-Anonymous
4x golgari grave-troll
4x golgari thug
4x stinkweed imp
4x ichorid
4x narcomoeba
3x street wraith
2x putrid imp
1x flame-kn zealot.
spells (21)
4x faithless looting
4x cabal therapy
4x lion's eye diamond
4x bridge from below
3x breakthrough
1x careful study
1x dread return
4x mana confluence
4x gemstone mine
4x cephalid coliseum
1x city of brass
2x abrupt decay
1x nature's claim
3x firestorm
1x ashen rider
3x lotus petal
2x city of brass
1x darkblast
2x surgical extraction
the deck served me pretty well. The street wraiths are a bit of an experiment. so far the results have been mixed. it makes bringing back ichorids easier, and the instant draw is nice. but there were several hands i had to mull cause of no discard outlets. i'm gonna try them again when i get back from a trip. as far as the sideboard is concerned, it's nothing groundbreaking. it has two packages: the grindy package, which has things like firestorms, abrupt decays, and the lands. i bring these in to fight decks that will play fair and bring in tonnes of hate. In these matchups i take out the leds, breakthroughs, and a street wraith. then i have the fast package, which is basically the lotus petals and specific cards (ashen rider vs show n tell decks, surgical vs dredge) for the unfair matchups that will just try to race me.
we have a great legacy scene here in toronto, diverse decks, legacy every friday at face to face. I'll update this post with a full on match report once i find my notes.
Match 1: me vs show n tell (2-1 for me)
Game 1: not much to say here. i had faithless looting into t2 looting +breakthrough. therapied him before casting breakthrough to see if the coast was clear, saw sneak attack + emrakul, knew what he was on.
Game 2: I keep a really, really slow hand. very nearly kill him, setting up a massive zombie horde by about turn 4 or 5, and i get killed by show and tell into griselbrand, then sneak attack into emrakul.
game 3: i punt huge here. my opening is land, cabal therapy, ichorid, ggt, breakthrough, led, lotus petal. my plan is therapy force of will and go nuts. i punt hard and crack led without stacking it properly. still end up just rolling the guy.
sb plan: pretty much just brought in ashen rider and 3 petals for 2 putrid imps, 1 ichorid and golgari thug
Match two, omnitell (2-1 for me)
game 1: we both have some super weird games. i dredge hard but find no narcomoebas,it takes me a while to start dredging (thanks to street wraith not discarding:S) and he takes forever to find combo pieces. eventually i managed to get the train rolling and crush him.
game 2: i kept a hand with a dredger and looting, and draw into ashen rider. i also drew an led, but i pretty much figured i wouldn't use it since i wanted to hold on to ashen rider. then he drops a young pyromancer and makes a few tokens. i'm totally surprised by this, and i then go crazy with the LED, pitching the rider, and making a huge zombie horde. Unfortunately, this opened me up to an eventual show and tell kill.
Game 3: i bring in a darkblast this time, but the whole match came down to who was on the play (me). we both had turn two kills. i t1, loot, t2 cabal therapy, goign to name show and tell, he brainstorms and i'm pretty sure he hides it on top of his library. so i name fow, hit, and see he has the t2 kill. land, led, breakthrough, and the game is over. flip over three narcomoebas, 3 bridges, dread return and flamekin.
SB: Same plan as with sneak and show, but i brought in a darkblast for his yp. maybe this was wrong.
Match 3, death and taxes (2-0 for me)
Game 1: not much to say, i went off turn two again.. (turn 1 faithless, draw into t2 led, breakthrough,flip my library).
game 2: he mulls to 6, i keep a fairly resilient seven: faithless, ichorid, stinkweed, a few other draw spells. i don't see any sb cards, but i have 2 cabal therapies. He starts t1 vial, so i start of cabal therapy, name rest in peace. i look at his hand, it's got land, swords to plowshares, vial, sword of fire and ice. He draws a spirit of the labyrinth, and this is probably the most interesting part of the match: Apparently, spirit of the labyrinth works pretty much in our favour: we can dredge as many times as we like, until we decide not to replace a draw with a dredge. After that, we can no longer dredge in the turn. My opponent thought this would work differently and never found any hate. I played super slow, rying not to dump too much into my graveyard until i had a big enough zombie horde that the game was pretty much in my favour.
Sb plan: take out the breakthroughs, leds, and a street wraith for firestorms, abrupt decay, nature's claim and two lands.
Me vs burn (0-2)
game 1: i don't know what he's on, i keep a hand that involves me taking about 5 damage to start going off (mana confluence, faithless, pay 2 life for wraith). He was on the play and crushed me.
game 2: i'm on the play, but i don't keep the fastest hand. He blows up a bridge and I can't get going too fast, he kills me with a bunch of rift bolts. I should have mulled to an LED hand.
SB: just bringing in the lotus petals for both putrid imps and an ichorid.
All in all i had a great time, got more ppieces for legacy elves and am close to getting some foils for dredge
Goblins
EDH
Derevi
My main deck is a slight variant of Quadlaser. I'm maindecking 1 Darkblast because I feel Young Pyromancer decks are getting a little too popular on MTGO and I'm not sure how big they are in paper.
I like my main deck but with regards to my sideboard, I just can't decide on what anti-hate package I want to bring. I have 7 slots to work with, the rest of my sideboard I'm happy with.
I have access to: Nature's Claim, Ingot Chewer, Wispmare, Vapor Snag, Abrupt Decay, Ancient Grudge, and Unmask.
I'm not sure what the meta will be. If anyone plays at Curio Cavern and can give me a better idea of what to prepare for I'd greatly appreciate it. I haven't been to the store in a really long time.
Thoughts?
-Anonymous
1x Dread Return
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3x Firestorm
2x Surgical Extraction
Which leaves me with 7 slots for anti-hate
-Anonymous
-Anonymous
I did not expect to win the very first one I went to....yay?
It was a really tiny IQ (12 people) so we only did 4 rounds and cut to top 4.
This is the list I played:
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
3x Golgari Thug
4x Ichorid
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
4x Narcomoeba
3x Putrid Imp
4x Stinkweed Imp
Instant (1)
1x Darkblast
Enchantment (4)
4x Bridge from Below
3x Breakthrough
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Careful Study
1x Dread Return
4x Faithless Looting
Land (12)
4x Cephalid Coliseum
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Mana Confluence
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Ashen Rider
1x Dread Return
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3x Firestorm
2x Ingot Chewer
2x Nature's Claim
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Wispmare
Round 1 vs Elves
Game 1: discard 2 Trolls to Careful Study. Didn't hit a single third dredger off of them. Or an Ichorid. Or a Therapy. Or a Bridge. I did hit 2 Narcomoebas. My opponent went off fairly unimpeded on like turn 3 or 4.
Game 2: Turn 1 Iona. GG
Game 3: Did not get good Dredges. Opponent lands turn 2 Scooze + Gaea's Cradle. Never really had a chance.
0-1
Round 2 vs Jund
Game 1: They start with a fetch for a basic forest and don't play a red source until like turn 5. They play Scooze on turn 2 so I Upkeep Darkblast, dredge is back, finish off Scooze. I just get on the zombie beats and win from there.
Game 2: They go turn 1 DRS, turn 2 Scooze. I don't have a fast enough start to overcome their hate. I die getting hit by an 8/8 Scooze.
Ganme 3: I Firestorm some stuff away. Get on zombie beats. Outrace them. Never see hate post firestorm.
1-1
Round 3 vs Death & Taxes (Paired up)
Game 1: Turn 1 Iona.
Game 2: I Therapy a RIP on t1. Firestorm away a SFM and C-Priest on turn 3. Firestorm a second SFM on t4. NO DREDGERS. I die to Brimaz beats and a germ token.
Game 3: Therapy away the RIP on t1 again. Have much better Dredges. Putrid Imp to discard stuff and loot the following turn.
2-1
Round 4 vs Burn (Only undefeated player)
Game 1: I Iona on turn 1.
Game 2: I kept a hand with no dredgers but quite a few loot effects and a LED. His turn 1 Goblin Guide gives me a land and I draw a Troll for my turn. I lead with Putrid Imp and get to go off and Dread Return Iona on my second turn.
3-1
Cut to top 4. Top 8 got prizes. We in the top 4 chose to split and then had to play for the Invite.
Semifinals vs Abzan
I ask him if he wants to play and myself and my round 4 opponent tell him where the 2 upcoming Invitationals are. He doesn't plan to go to any of them so he agrees to concede to me though we play out 2 games for fun.
Game 1: I dredge, not well. He gets an active Scooze. Doesn't end well. 4 Counters on Scooze + Sword of Light and Shadow.
Game 2: Get mediocre dredges, we don't get to finish the game as the other semifinal match ended but he had a strong board state, I would probably lose.
4-1
Finals vs Burn (my round 4 opponent)
Game 1: I combo out fast I think like turn 2 or 3 and he concedes.
Game 2: I have a really slow start and don't hit many Bridges or Ichorids he's able to burn me out. He had brought in Searing Bloods which I found odd as you typically don't want to a Dredge player's creatures.
Game 3: I mull to 4 keeping Gemstone Mine, Mana Confluence, Careful Study, and Breakthrough. The Study hits a Troll and a Coliseum. Turn 2 I play Coliseum and cast Breakthrough dredging a lot. Turn 3 I got to activate Coliseum and he concedes.
5-1
One very important thing to note. I never played against a Blue deck which I felt was really strange. There was at least 1 Miracles, 1 Omnitell, and 1 BUG player but I was never paired against them. The top 4 didn't have a single Island. I was really glad my semis opponent agreed to concede as I feel Abazan is a terrible match up for Dredge. The other Semifinal match was my round 1 opponent (Elves) vs my round 4 (Burn) so either way its a rematch and Elves is toss up (as first seed I get to play) and Burn is very favored so I was confident I could win the invite and I did.
-Anonymous
Your report has put a huge smile on my face. Everyone says blue is the colour you should play if you want to win, yet your tournment's top 4 players didn't have a single island (you may have had careful study but that is just faithless looting 5-8 so it doesn't count lol).
Your report it is also getting me interested in getting invested into Dredge. My friends have recently told me they do not like my OmniTell deck as they cannot fight it, so out on the look out for another deck to add to my collection.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
I'm not entirely sure the exact number of blue vs non-blue decks at the IQ but it was the smallest non-win-a-box constructed event I've played in.
If your friends are complaining that they can't fight OmniTell it just means they don't know how to and need to get better at building sideboards.
The thing about investing in Dredge is that very few of the cards see play in other decks. Apart from Therapy, LED, and Careful Study, everything is deck specific.
-Anonymous
She's there as a hedge against combo decks just to lock them out if I'm not able to kill them on that specific turn. Being an Auto-win against Burn helped as he just scooped whenever I had Iona + DR in the graveyard before I ever reanimated her. I get a lot of concessions to DR in yard, flashback therapy, especially if Iona is also in there.
The games where I do hit both I tend to win on the spot, typically because I've just exploded on turn 1 or turn 2 and have milled over half my deck and few opponents want to continue against a Dredge player after they generated that much card advantage.
I wouldn't run FKZ over her because while both win me games the turn they come down, I don't need zombies to win with Iona.
I would have won game 1 vs Elves if I had a third creature as I had 2 Nacomoebas with Iona + DR in yard but I never got it. Locking them out of green would have left them with just a field of 1/1s and a 2/2.
When it happens I win, when it doesn't I still tend to win. I've only ever lost 1 game where I reanimated Iona and thats because I named the wrong color.
-Anonymous
Round 1 vs UWR Stoneblade/Delver
2-0 win
Round 2 vs Lands (with maindeck Bojuka Bog)
0-2 loss
Round 3 vs Reaninmator
2-1 win
Round 4 vs Blue Brew - it was a Monoblue deck with Serum Powder, Misthollow Griffin, Ensoul Artifact, Phyrexian Metamorph, Stratus Dancer, and TNN. Had traditional anti-combo artifacts in Chalice and T-Sphere.
2-0 win
Round 5 vs RIP-Helm Miracles
Intentional draw into top 8
3-1-1 in Swiss, started top 8 at 4th seed.
Quarterfinals vs Death and Taxes
2-1 win
Semifinals vs ANT
2-0 win
Finals vs RUG Delver
Technically Loss. We agreed to split the cash & credit and they get the extra Open Series Point for getting first as they are vying for top 16 in the season and I already have my invite.
Overall
5-2-1 after split.
I've got one more IQ before my next SCG Open.
-Anonymous
I played a lot with a Quadlaser list last fall, didn't like it, I mulled too much.
Went back to the LEDless but still, mulligan is a real issue.
I used to think 15 was the perfect number of lands, but that was when tarnished citadel was in the 75.
I don't know the math but, is there a "real" advantage at playing 16 lands instead of 15 now with confluence available?
-Anonymous
Creatures (27)
4 Putrid Imp
4 Tireless Tribe
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough
2 Dread Return
Enchantment (4)
4 Bridge from below
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Mana Confluence
I consider Dread Return a token generator more than a "must resolve" spell anyway so...
Maybe -2 DD + 1 Ichorid +1 BT ?
A sort of Quadlaser without LEDs that would end up like that :
Creatures (28)
4 Putrid Imp
4 Tireless Tribe
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
4 Breakthrough
Enchantment (4)
4 Bridge from below
Lands(16)
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Mana Confluence
That would be a deck oriented at "Get Dredger into grave yard" and "pay mana for draw spell" G1
and game 2 = "cast answer to hate" and "cast enabler/draw spell ".
Game 1 against fair deck the list is ok anyway because we draw/dredge 6 cards a turn anyway, no need for DR
Game2 is another story but 16 mana source might be enough to play any spell needed to anwer hate and resume dredging and win.
Maybe:
+4faithless looting
-4Breakthrough
For more enabler at the price of speed.
Dredging 2 extra time in a single turn is enough most of the time.
But BT is easier to cast than FL.
peace
Thought I'd drop it here for anyone;
103.4. Each player draws a number of cards equal to his or her starting hand size, which is normally seven. (Some effects can modify a player’s starting hand size.) A player who is dissatisfied with his or her initial hand may take a mulligan. First, the starting player declares whether or not he or she will take a mulligan. Then each other player in turn order does the same. Once each player has made a declaration, all players who decided to take mulligans do so at the same time. To take a mulligan, a player shuffles his or her hand back into his or her library, then draws a new hand of one fewer cards than he or she had before. If a player kept his or her hand of cards, those cards become the player’s opening hand, and that player may not take any further mulligans. This process is then repeated until no player takes a mulligan. (Note that if a player’s hand size reaches zero cards, that player must keep that hand.)
Then, beginning with the starting player and proceeding in turn order, any player whose opening hand has fewer cards than his or her starting hand size may scry 1.
Gotta admit, that bit in bold does sound mighty for storm and fast combo too. Very interesting!!
Sorry for the wall of text. I got a bit carried away. I tried to hide some of it in separate spoilers.
TL;DR:
I'd like to start by thanking everybody in this forum. My deck was strongly influenced by the discussion you guys have been having here and I've always found it very helpful when making my card choices. I haven't written here before, since I never felt I had anything new to contribute and this post is not different in that sense: my card choices and general ideas about strategy and matchups were all discussed here at some point. However, I'm hoping to condense and highlight the stuff that popped up in the tournament and testing as more important than I first expected. I also included a more traditional match by match tournament report.
But first, let me start with my card choices that some people may find unconventional or suboptimal.
Memory's Journey in the sideboard was a late addition. I was really impressed by it and I highly recommend you to try it, if Grixis/4c delver, mentor decks and merfolk continue to be popular. It allows you to trade creatures without fear of losing your bridges in matchups where your opponent is able to flood the board with random dorks. I got my mind blown when my friend noted that I can stack the triggers from the bridge in the usual way after trading an Ichorid or a Narc, let the zombie trigger resolve and then in response to the bridge's exile trigger cast memory's journey to shuffle in your bridges. This must have been obvious to everybody else but I completely missed this line in one of the games I played during the weekend. The card gives also a nice insurance plan against both relic and surgical extraction which both seem to be very popular in the current metagame. And there is more! It even works as a disruption spell against other graveyard decks!
I was also on the controversial lotus petal plan after sideboard against most non-blue and combo decks as well as miracles. I've been doing this for a year now and I've been really impressed by the effect of the added speed when you don't need to play around too many counterspells. I feel that miracles and combo decks like reanimator and storm become slightly favorable matchups because of this plan. During the tournament I had one turn 1 kill on the draw and multiple turn 2 kills or concessions that would have never happened without the lotus petals. Most hands that contain the card have a one turn faster goldfish that is often more resilient to disruption due to the ability to cast 2 spells during the same turn.
I believe that the rest of the sideboard is relatively standard - especially, if you play lotus petals. I was very lucky during the tournament and never had to cast a single Nature's Claim even though I boarded them in piously against most of the fair decks. I tested the "Abrupt Decay and extra land" plan in GP NJ and found it way too inconsistent for my play style because of the double mana cost. Since I dodged permanent based graveyard hate for most of the tournament, I cannot really say if I like the Nature's Claims much more than I like the Decays but at least I could have cast them every time I drew them. People also seemed to play relics much more than Cages/RIPs and neither Claim nor Decay is very good against Relic. Hence, there might be a case for cutting down on Claims, if you have a card you'd like to add to the board.
Firestorm was probably the most valuable card of my sideboard. The card just laughs at random fair decks that think they can win with hands full of Force of Wills and Flusterstorms. I used to think that the card is somewhat underwhelming but I stand corrected. I will never leave home without at least 3 of these in the future.
Then to the actual tournament report. My memory of the games I played and their order is a bit fuzzy but I'll try my best to convey at least the excitement I experienced throughout the two days.
My own tournament started as poorly as it can start with 2 losses first against Miracles and then against D&T. I think I was at least 90% favorite to win the game 3 against Miracles by reanimating Iona on my turn 3 with the information from a previous therapy that my opponent had pure air in his hand. However, a top decked relic foiled this whole plan and made sure I could not refill my yard before he found entreat to finish me off.
Game 1 against death and taxes felt similarly favorable but a timely second Mirran Crusader doubled my opponent's clock just when it was too late to revise my game plan of one-shot swarming him through his defences and let him win one turn before my zombie apocalypse. After these losses I was very close to dropping and joining a MM2015 draft but decided to play a few more games to see how the deck plays against non-white decks. I still think that D&T is one of our worst matchups and if you guys have figured out a good, consistent plan against them, I'd really like to hear it.
The next three matchups were pseudo byes in the form of Abzan good stuff (didn't see knights or any of the other maverick stuff), Sam Black's Zombardment with white replaced by Vengevines and Jund. After quickly winning game 1 against Abzan, I sideboarded into the speed plan with lotus petals, extra dread return and additional reanimation targets and was rewarded with a turn 1 Flame-Kin Zealot win on the draw with my opponent staring in disbelief at the Containment Priest, double Swords to Plowshares and Scooze in his hand. Without the petals, I would have never beaten the hand. The Zombardment deck put up a good fight in the sideboarded games with multiple surgicals. But in game 3 my hand was just too fast for a single surgical to matter.
If I remember correctly, after that I played the next 2 matches against shardless bug. All of the games were fairly close and I even lost game 1 in the second match to double Deathrite. However, fast and disruption resistant hands were able to pull me through the other two games. I think that match was a very lucky anomaly given how much hate he was packing. The second match was also the one where after the game was over my friend showed me the light by telling me that I should have sequenced my memory's journey in the trivially "correct" way that I mentioned above. In the game I just cast it before damage to protect my bridges even though I remember thinking about the two bridge triggers for a few seconds but somehow just did not put 2 and 2 together. At that point I was so far ahead that I did not need the 4 missed zombies but my way of sequencing was nevertheless clearly suboptimal.
The last 2 matches of the day were against Infect and Omnitell. I win game 1 against infect with a double draw spell + LED hand digging me into Iona on green. Game 2 he lands a turn 1 Cage and I don't have enough time to find my Nature's Claims. Game 3 he snap keeps but plays nothing on turn 1. I'm 90% sure he's clutching on a Crop Rotation and therapy for that on turn 1. He decides not to spell pierce the therapy in hope of piercing a future therapy and shakes his head when I blind name Rotation. After that I reanimate Iona again on turn 3 after ripping the rest of his hand apart and the game is over.
Suddenly, to my own surprise, I'm again playing a win and in and very much expecting to continue my time honored tradition of going 6-3 in gps. This expectation is strengthened when I realize that I'm playing against Omnitel, a matchup I really hadn't played against. However, this time my deck really delivers. Game 1 I have a very nice and counter resistant draw that puts the game away so fast that my opponent doesn't get anything going. I mulligan to 5 or 6 in game 2 and keep a hand that is way too soft to counterspells. My opponent reads this correctly and doesn't let me cast my first draw spell making me play manaless dredge for a while. I don't even find dredgers for the first few turns and my opponent gets to durdle with his infinite ponders, preordains and brainstorms for at least 7 turns before Omnicasting a Spaghetti Monster to bash my face in.
In game 3 I'm on the play keeping again a very fast hand which was I remember being again a bit vulnerable to countermagic but otherwise the pure nuts. On turn 1 I just make him have the FOW. Since he doesn't have it, I go crazy, flipping 2/3 of my deck in the yard. I mill perfectly except I hit only 1 therapy. I know by looking at my yard and battlefield that on turn 3 I can swing for lethal. I also know that my opponent is not holding a force of will, since he didn't force my draw spells. However, it's been a long day and I completely blank on what I should name and choose Flusterstorm, because that was used to foil my plans in game 2. This was a huge punt. The only way I can lose the game from my current position is with a fast show and tell into omniscience into release the ants. Hence, the correct name would have been show and tell. Even Spell Pierce would have been better, since it's far more numerous in the deck than Flusterstorm. I almost get punished for my punt with my opponent show and telling an Emrakul on turn 2. However, the zombies, ichorids and my 9/9, show and told Grave-Troll are enough to push through the spaghetti monster before it gets to attack. I cannot believe that my much maligned 500 dollar pile put me into day 2. Andrea Mengucci, who was randomly watching the game, flashes a priceless, approving grin after my opponent scoops to my attack.
My third game on day 2 is against Grixis Delver. This was the only time the deck really fizzled during the whole weekend. Game 1 I keep a 6 card hand that has only 1 draw spell and 1 land. The worst case scenario happens. I get my draw spell countered and the land wastelanded leaving me playing draw and go for 3 turns. At that point a young pyromancer & company and a delver are enough to get the job done. Game 2 I keep a hand that I thought was unbeatable, including a careful study, 2 lands, a faithless looting and a firestorm but zero dredgers. The unlikey ultimate fizzle happens and I cast 4 draw spells before the fifth finds my first dredger. At this point it is already too late and I die again to elemental beats. I made a slight misplay in this game when on my last turn I did not sac the putrid imp I had found to cabal therapy to generate 3 zombies that could have blocked some elementals and given me another turn. I completely forgot that the Pimp can't block. Nevertheless, I was so behind at that point that the correct play wouldn't have probably changed anything.
The fourth match of the day is probably both the best and the worst magic match I've ever played. Best, because the game was extremely intense and crazy. Worst because I punted almost every turn especially in the second game in ways that are ex-post completely incomprehensible. I have a very strong hand in game 1 with an LED, multiple draw spells and a couple of dredgers. My opponent opens with a thoughtseize and takes the LED. I dump a couple of dredgers in the yard with a careful study after which she reanimates my Stinkweed Imp. I realize that her hand cannot be very good but it must have multiple reanimation spells for her wanting to waste one on an imp. I make it a priority to get some cabal therapies going and succeed in stripping her hand of an Exhume (?). In the process my zombie army grows and the game is over unless she is able to reanimate the Elesh-Norn she was able to dump from a careful study. Lucky for me, the reanimation spell she finally top decks is an Exhume and not Reanimate and allows me to replace my zombies with a 5/5 Iona to deliver the last 10 points of damage.
In game 2 she plays a turn 1 Show and Tell dropping an Empyrial Archangel in play. Again, I'm relatively lucky with a best-response Stinkweed Imp as the only reasonable creature in my grip. I attack with my Imp to kill the angel but she is able to reanimate it on her next turn. Then start the punts. Since, I have an Ashen Rider in my yard, I take it as my first goal to reanimate that and kill the big bad angel. The plan works incredibly well up to the point when I try to target the angel with my ETB effect. I get my warning for an illegal game action and get completely flustered. I'm still able to slow my opponent down by stripping her of her only blue source with the ETB effect. However, in the process my Ashen Rider mysteriously vanishes. For a few days now, I've been trying to figure out what happened to it. I have no recollection of it dying, blocking or taking any part in combat for that matter. I must have gotten so flustered from the warning that I put the angel on the side of the battlefield and forgot it there.
Well... Who needs a 5/5 flyer or its LTB effect when you have infinite zombies, right? I take a few hits from the angel while filling my board with zombies to be able to beat the angel back to its grave. However, the process is one turn too slow and I'm forced to reanimate a flyer to block. The punts continue. At the time I was constantly discarding to hand size and the obvious correct play would have been to discard a Stinky instead of a Grave-Troll and reanimate that. I realize this too late and I'm forced to reanimate a Fearie Macabre to block while holding a fistful of Stinky Imps. Luckily, the Faerie is enough of a speed bump and the angel dies to my swarm.
This does not mean that I'm done with the punts. I've been ripping her hand of relevant action with therapies when gathering my zombie army. I know 2 of her 3 card hand (Griselbrand and Flusterstorm) and cast another therapy. She responds with an Entomb for Elesh-Norn. Wanna guess, if I name Flusterstorm with my Therapy? Exhume is as good as any other card, right? Luckily, this does not end up mattering, since she fails to top deck a reanimation spell on her turn and my now giant zombie army one-shots her the next turn. I think the reanimator matchup shouldn't generally be this good but the lotus petal plan helps a lot by generating a considerable early pressure making reanimate much worse and getting your therapies alive as early as possible.
My last 2 games are against Merfolk and Miracles. Even though merfolk has probably the best main deck hate card against us in Curse Catcher, the matchup is still pretty brutal. As I mentioned earlier, my friend also plays the deck and hence I've got a lot of practice against it. Swarming the board early with zombies is usually enough to completely outvalue them and memory's journey helps here a lot allowing for more trades and helping you to play around Relic. After a very fast game 2 where I beat Chalice on 1 and two counterspells in 3 turns my opponent shows me his sideboard that contains 3 propagandas, 2 relics and a cage. I think I wouldn't have stood a chance with my 1 land, had he been able to resolve a Propaganda. The Miracles games are both over in 3 turns. The lotus petal strategy really proves its worth in the second game where my opponent is completely unable to set up shop before I therapy away a FOW and reanimate an Iona on white to win me the game. No other reanimation target would have won the game as reliably as Iona in that spot.
All in all, I punted like there was no tomorrow throughout the weekend but still ended up being incredibly lucky to finish as well as I did. People seem to be really skimping on their graveyard hate and play more value oriented hate pieces like Relics that are not very efficient against us. It's a good time to be a dredger!
With Mentor they not only have a much faster clock but they can gum up the board so much easier and block much more freely.
This is the list I'm currently running and I'm planning to play the deck in the DC Open next weekend.
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
3x Golgari Thug
4x Ichorid
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
4x Narcomoeba
3x Putrid Imp
4x Stinkweed Imp
Instant (1)
1x Darkblast
Sorcery (16)
3x Breakthrough
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Careful Study
1x Dread Return
4x Faithless Looting
4x Bridge from Below
Artifact (4)
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
Land (12)
4x Cephalid Coliseum
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Mana Confluence
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Ashen Rider
1x Dread Return
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3x Firestorm
2x Ingot Chewer
3x Leyline of the Void
1x Nature's Claim
2x Wispmare
I've been facing a lot of Lands and Mentor Miracles lately and its really annoying.
Any suggestions for next weekend?
-Anonymous
Shopping around for a cheap legacy deck and all roads seem to be leading back to Dredge. Is this a viable deck now? Which is best: LED Dredge, Non-LED Dredge, or Manaless Dredge? Thanks.
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
As for how well dredge is positioned? It's iffy. the blue decks are playing dig through time, so they need their yards, and some of the non interactive decks are kind of popular (wooh storm). On the other hand, Aggro Loam is a beating in my experience, and that is also gaining steam around here.
I went 3-1 in a legacy challenge at GP London the other day, same list as a few posts up only -darkblast for another claim in the board. I'll write up a report when i get a second. Mostly stoked cause i managed to get foil coliseums signed by John Avon, and some ichorids signed.
Goblins
EDH
Derevi