i want lavinia! i want hime with venser PW! but i dont know how to make them playable..
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I like beck, I think it's more obvious appliation is in modern, but I think it could see play in legacy, with U you can use things like Intuition + Vengevine, and notably, it's when it enters the battlefield, making GSZ better mid-combo
The downside (at least when I've messed with it on cockatrice), is that it's much harder to play it for value, you can 'value-glimpse' with elves and still manage to win, not so much with beck.
Try beck//call with wirewood hivemaster. People just shoving it in normals elves! lists will probably be disappointed. It has a really powerful effect once active with birchlore rangers and/or heritage druid or with just wirewood hivemaster and some mana to play cards with.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Wear//Tear seems like value, better for Zoo than Krosan Grip is.
Don't really see anything else at the moment. Ral is a 100% worse Ajani.
It's more value, but the reason Zoo runs Krosan Grip is because of the Split Second. Being able to kill a Sensei's Divining Top or Counterbalance is huge in Legacy. Especially considering UW Miracles basically destroys Zoo with Terminus.
Doesn't zoo just not care about turn 2 counterbalance + top when they have qasali pridemage as a 4 of? At least that's what zoo ran last time I saw it, maybe they moved on for some reason but pridemage pushed that deck hard in 2008 when countertop was dominating the format and pridemage took a giant **** on the deck and caused a metashift.
I wonder how wear//tear will interact with counterbalance and how it will determine cost if both sides are used. I'm thinking the CMC of the card(s?) will either be 3 or it will be two separate spells on the stack, though I'm not really sure how that would work.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
If the issue with dark confidant is any indication it should recognize 2 spells on the stack at the same time but only trigger once countering either side at best.
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------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
Doesn't zoo just not care about turn 2 counterbalance + top when they have qasali pridemage as a 4 of? At least that's what zoo ran last time I saw it, maybe they moved on for some reason but pridemage pushed that deck hard in 2008 when countertop was dominating the format and pridemage took a giant **** on the deck and caused a metashift.
I wonder how wear//tear will interact with counterbalance and how it will determine cost if both sides are used. I'm thinking the CMC of the card(s?) will either be 3 or it will be two separate spells on the stack, though I'm not really sure how that would work.
A Counterbalance Lock is still pretty oppressive for Zoo since they live and die at 1 and 2 CMC (which is easy for Counterbalance). I personally run GSZ and one of the reasons is to get around the lock and just overload a GSZ to get a QPM, Teeg, or something, but it's not too common among most Zoo lists. Ironically I did this two weeks ago and overloaded a GSZ to 5 and they blind flipped Terminus and countered it -_-;;.
With that said, I don't think Miracles fears a QPM that much and it's why I run Krosan Grip. Split Second and effectively, uncounterable is pretty amazing and although the new card has value, I'd much rather have the "guarantee" that comes with Krosan Grip. It's one of the only cards Zoo can run to destroy Top and that's huge when they are trying to setup a Terminus Miracle and wipe your board.
In reality, I think the argument boils down to inevitability of Krosan Grip vs. Value. I don't think there is a right answer and it depends on what you prefer.
They can even counter fireblast with terminus if you run fireblast -_- Gosh, zoo is super depressing in the terminus era. I remember when I first saw terminus spoiled and thinking "this screams busted in half to me. W, Instant: Wrath but better."
But counterbalance lock is oppressive for any deck that cares about 1 and 2 drops really. Only a handful of decks can really play through a countertop softlock, and even then you might have to get lucky. I remember back when countertop was the most dominant deck and a friend of mine was trying to blow up a counterbalance with engineered explosives + academy ruins or maybe multiple copies in hand. He went for 3, and the opponent countered it with o ring. Went for 4 and the opponent had a 4 on top. If he had simply went for 2, he would have resolved it ironically enough. I don't know anyone who doesn't hate playing against countertop when their deck has a super low curve or even when you're a control deck playing against the countertop soft lock is super annoying. Especially when fetchlands are in play...without fetchlands countertop would be unplayable.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Gosh, zoo is super depressing in the terminus era.
Story of my life...
I still play it occasionally when I just want to have fun and don't care if I go 2-2 or something, but I have no delusion it's time in the sun is gone unless something good is printed. Back in my day, Aggro beat Control...damn whippersnappers!
What irks me is Boros Charm was *so* close to being playable in it. Had the wording been "Deal 4 damage to target creature" instead of player or even better "Until end of turn, your creatures cannot leave the battlefield" instead of indestructible, I'd play it in a heartbeat. Indestructible is so worthless in Legacy where StP is the most common removal and Terminus the most common board wipe.
Disclaimer about the following thought: I'm hopeless at MTG.
With that said, would Ruric Thar ever be tech for Reanimator/other fatty decks against storm or something?
It rely depends. The problem is that the effect is symmetrical which means that you'll be taking tons of damage from your reanimator spells. It could work, though. It might also be good against contol, now that I think about it.
Does Turn // Burn seem like a viable include for UWr Miracles decks because it's a 2 *or* a 3 for Counterbalance? (I'm not a Counterbalance aficionado because I play Storm, but I'm curious).
Does Turn // Burn seem like a viable include for UWr Miracles decks because it's a 2 *or* a 3 for Counterbalance? (I'm not a Counterbalance aficionado because I play Storm, but I'm curious).
Nope Counterblance adds split cards CMC like bob. It counts as 5.
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Random Opponent: Playing against 12 Post Feels like trying to win in Yugioh with no super secret rares.
Nope Counterblance adds split cards CMC like bob. It counts as 5.
As far as I know, this is incorrect. You're right about how Split cards work with Dark Confidant, but not for the reason you've stated.
Quote from Magic Comprehensive Rules »
708.5. An effect that asks for a particular characteristic of a split card while it’s in a zone other than the stack gets two answers (one for each of the split card’s two halves).
Example: Infernal Genesis has an ability that reads, “At the beginning of each player’s upkeep, that player puts the top card from his or her library into his or her graveyard. He or she then puts X 1/1 black Minion creature tokens into play, where X is that card’s converted mana cost.” If the top card of your library is Assault/Battery when this ability resolves, the game sees its converted mana cost as “1, and 4.” You get five creature tokens.
...
708.6c If an effect performs a comparison involving multiple characteristics of one or more split cards in any zone other than the stack, each characteristic is compared separately. If each of the individual comparisons would return a “yes” answer, the whole comparison returns a “yes” answer.
Example: Void reads, “Choose a number. Destroy all artifacts and creatures with converted mana cost equal to that number. Then target player reveals his or her hand and discards all nonland cards with converted mana cost equal to the number.” If a player plays Void and chooses 1, his or her opponent would discard Assault/Battery because the game sees its converted mana cost as “1, and 4.” The same is true if the player chooses 4. If the player chooses 5, however, Assault/Battery would be unaffected.
The former example displays that Dark Confidant makes you lose life equal to the combined mana cost because the game sees a split card's CMC as both halves' CMCs at the same time and not because the game sees the CMC of a split card as the actual sum of both halves (Bob asks: "What is your CMC?" and gets "3!" from Turn and "2!" from Burn so you lose 3 life and 2 life simultaneously, which just happens to look *exactly* like losing 5 life).
The latter example leads me to believe that if you flip Turn // Burn off of a Counterbalance Trigger, it could counter a spell that costs 2 or 3 because the game sees its mana cost as both 2 and 3.
Blood Scrivener I think is going to see legacy play. I think he's a shoe in for zombardment. I think he may make zombies a legit tribal deck. Also dark burn playing him and dark confidant seems good. Plus he is solid as a budget replacement for bob.
Blood Scrivener I think is going to see legacy play. I think he's a shoe in for zombardment. I think he may make zombies a legit tribal deck. Also dark burn playing him and dark confidant seems good. Plus he is solid as a budget replacement for bob.
Definitely not an auto-include. A budget version is also a maybe for Zombardment. I rarely have no cards in hand when I'm playing the deck, so most of his value just isn't there.
Decks that just throw up their hand onto the battlefield would be good place for Scrivener, so Affinity may have a place for it.
I will love to test him out thought. I want a play set just to have one.
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Not as long as Red Black is part of jund. Too many better 4 drop slot fillers, especially once you consider green.
Are there any Red Black legacy decks? Dragonstorm? RB Gobbos? Sometimes?
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Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
Wear//Tear seems to be Boros's answer to Hull Breach.
I mean the Deathtouch dude that can put an opponent to 1
The downside (at least when I've messed with it on cockatrice), is that it's much harder to play it for value, you can 'value-glimpse' with elves and still manage to win, not so much with beck.
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Don't really see anything else at the moment. Ral is a 100% worse Ajani.
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It's more value, but the reason Zoo runs Krosan Grip is because of the Split Second. Being able to kill a Sensei's Divining Top or Counterbalance is huge in Legacy. Especially considering UW Miracles basically destroys Zoo with Terminus.
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GWR Punishing Maverick
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I wonder how wear//tear will interact with counterbalance and how it will determine cost if both sides are used. I'm thinking the CMC of the card(s?) will either be 3 or it will be two separate spells on the stack, though I'm not really sure how that would work.
Currently Playing:
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-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
A Counterbalance Lock is still pretty oppressive for Zoo since they live and die at 1 and 2 CMC (which is easy for Counterbalance). I personally run GSZ and one of the reasons is to get around the lock and just overload a GSZ to get a QPM, Teeg, or something, but it's not too common among most Zoo lists. Ironically I did this two weeks ago and overloaded a GSZ to 5 and they blind flipped Terminus and countered it -_-;;.
With that said, I don't think Miracles fears a QPM that much and it's why I run Krosan Grip. Split Second and effectively, uncounterable is pretty amazing and although the new card has value, I'd much rather have the "guarantee" that comes with Krosan Grip. It's one of the only cards Zoo can run to destroy Top and that's huge when they are trying to setup a Terminus Miracle and wipe your board.
In reality, I think the argument boils down to inevitability of Krosan Grip vs. Value. I don't think there is a right answer and it depends on what you prefer.
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Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
But counterbalance lock is oppressive for any deck that cares about 1 and 2 drops really. Only a handful of decks can really play through a countertop softlock, and even then you might have to get lucky. I remember back when countertop was the most dominant deck and a friend of mine was trying to blow up a counterbalance with engineered explosives + academy ruins or maybe multiple copies in hand. He went for 3, and the opponent countered it with o ring. Went for 4 and the opponent had a 4 on top. If he had simply went for 2, he would have resolved it ironically enough. I don't know anyone who doesn't hate playing against countertop when their deck has a super low curve or even when you're a control deck playing against the countertop soft lock is super annoying. Especially when fetchlands are in play...without fetchlands countertop would be unplayable.
Currently Playing:
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Story of my life...
I still play it occasionally when I just want to have fun and don't care if I go 2-2 or something, but I have no delusion it's time in the sun is gone unless something good is printed. Back in my day, Aggro beat Control...damn whippersnappers!
What irks me is Boros Charm was *so* close to being playable in it. Had the wording been "Deal 4 damage to target creature" instead of player or even better "Until end of turn, your creatures cannot leave the battlefield" instead of indestructible, I'd play it in a heartbeat. Indestructible is so worthless in Legacy where StP is the most common removal and Terminus the most common board wipe.
Oh well. Here's hoping Dragon Maze provides something.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
With that said, would Ruric Thar ever be tech for Reanimator/other fatty decks against storm or something?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
It rely depends. The problem is that the effect is symmetrical which means that you'll be taking tons of damage from your reanimator spells. It could work, though. It might also be good against contol, now that I think about it.
Nope Counterblance adds split cards CMC like bob. It counts as 5.
As far as I know, this is incorrect. You're right about how Split cards work with Dark Confidant, but not for the reason you've stated.
The former example displays that Dark Confidant makes you lose life equal to the combined mana cost because the game sees a split card's CMC as both halves' CMCs at the same time and not because the game sees the CMC of a split card as the actual sum of both halves (Bob asks: "What is your CMC?" and gets "3!" from Turn and "2!" from Burn so you lose 3 life and 2 life simultaneously, which just happens to look *exactly* like losing 5 life).
The latter example leads me to believe that if you flip Turn // Burn off of a Counterbalance Trigger, it could counter a spell that costs 2 or 3 because the game sees its mana cost as both 2 and 3.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and even Griselbrand seem like better Reanimator anti-Storm tech.
But there may be no better Natural Order target for Elves against High Tide than Ruric Thar.
Definitely not an auto-include. A budget version is also a maybe for Zombardment. I rarely have no cards in hand when I'm playing the deck, so most of his value just isn't there.
Decks that just throw up their hand onto the battlefield would be good place for Scrivener, so Affinity may have a place for it.
I will love to test him out thought. I want a play set just to have one.