My question refers to high level play as well as local store play.
I guess it all comes down to the debate about competitive games that involve purchasing the pieces (TCGs) vs competitive games that do not (Chess, Poker).
Chess isn't dead despite the fact that you don't need to constantly buy new boards or pieces. It's still alive because its a great game for a wide audience.
The question is: is Magic a great enough game that it could stay popular if there wasn't a company making money off of selling the cards?
I think it may have just gotten to the point, that, if Magic were to stop being produced tomorrow, it would still be popular for years to come. At this point, proxies would obviously be allowed.
So you pay your entry fee and then if you face a sore looser with deeper pockets than you, you have to scoop?
Nice way to get people involved into legacy!
Thats right! But the etiquette is inform your opponent that you have proxies before the match. Its rude not too and would certainly get you an auto-loss if you didn't say anything in advance. Generally there is an understanding and it works at the store I play at.
Were talking a $6 entrance fee for 4 rounds of legacy fun. If that 'risk' is too high then don't play but its an excellent way to give someone and opportunity to play paper legacy.
I really don't mind proxies at the local LGS where its $6 to play and $12 credit to X-1s. But I am 100% against proxies at the higher level, no GPs, PTQs, PT, SCG, nationals, qualifiers, etc.
I guess it all comes down to the debate about competitive games that involve purchasing the pieces (TCGs) vs competitive games that do not (Chess, Poker)
This argument isn't valid. Everyone knows going into chess that this is how it's played, no one had to buy in. Removing that now will kill a ton of online stores, not to mention the feelings of people who bought dual lands or FoW or anything else pricey to finish off a deck.
The reserve list is a problem for Legacy, though we probably have a few years before its an oppressive one. Proxies are not the solution though.
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Afro Dave, @st4rwind on Twitter
Level 2 Judge
Legacy Decks:
- Deadguy Ale WB
- Imperial Bloodwolf R
- Rifter RW
- Rockman WBG
- Burn R
- T.E.S. WUBRG
- Belcher RG
- 10 Land Stompy G
- Zoo (budget) RGW
Thats right! But the etiquette is inform your opponent that you have proxies before the match. Its rude not too and would certainly get you an auto-loss if you didn't say anything in advance. Generally there is an understanding and it works at the store I play at.
Were talking a $6 entrance fee for 4 rounds of legacy fun. If that 'risk' is too high then don't play but its an excellent way to give someone and opportunity to play paper legacy.
I really don't mind proxies at the local LGS where its $6 to play and $12 credit to X-1s. But I am 100% against proxies at the higher level, no GPs, PTQs, PT, SCG, nationals, qualifiers, etc.
I think up to 5 proxies but no more would be an interesting idea to test out. You still need to own the other 70 cards. Lets say you own underground sea and use a bug deck, but you have decided to test out rug instead. It would be nice if you could do this without needing to get a playset of volcanic island.
I understand why people wouldnt agree at higher levels, but wouldnt that also increase the attendence and thus the profit? Are selling singles really a greater source of income than cost to enter?
This argument isn't valid. Everyone knows going into chess that this is how it's played, no one had to buy in. Removing that now will kill a ton of online stores, not to mention the feelings of people who bought dual lands or FoW or anything else pricey to finish off a deck.
The reserve list is a problem for Legacy, though we probably have a few years before its an oppressive one. Proxies are not the solution though.
The most popular games in the world are popular because anyone can play immediately. Football, chess, go, tennis. Who is to say magic wouldnt be more popular without the collection cost?
Limited is very popular, and everyone pays the same cost as everyone else to play. People generally dont like the type of elitism that constucted formats use, because it can detract from the fun of the game
5 seems like such an odd number. I think i might be fine with running at max 4 copies (since this how many of any 1 card you can have in a deck). But tbqh I've been working damn hard to build my legacy deck and using budget versions of certain cards and so if i were to see proxies at a tournament i paid for (and which a prize of some sort is at stake) I would be a little annoyed.
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Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
I think up to 5 proxies but no more would be an interesting idea to test out. You still need to own the other 70 cards. Lets say you own underground sea and use a bug deck, but you have decided to test out rug instead. It would be nice if you could do this without needing to get a playset of volcanic island.
I understand why people wouldnt agree at higher levels, but wouldnt that also increase the attendence and thus the profit? Are selling singles really a greater source of income than cost to enter?
WotC does not make money on singles, they make money on Boosters. Singles are all secondary market, and they would sell less boosters if you needed to open less to get the cards you wanted.
WotC does not make money on singles, they make money on Boosters. Singles are all secondary market, and they would sell less boosters if you needed to open less to get the cards you wanted.
Ok that makes sense I guess, but in legacy you hardly ever use new cards.
In standard and limited sure, but I'm not advocating proxies for those formats.
Wizards makes no money off of legacy tournaments anyway, right? Is it that great of an excuse if we piss off some of the card sellers like Channelfireball?
WotC could print and sell proxies for cheaper than real cards and without violating the official reprint policy. But they'd be much nicer (than home made proxies) to play with - like collector's edition and champ decks. Some people don't like playing against proxies because they are elitists, but many other wouldn't mind if the proxies weren't so ugly.
This violates the reserved list as they're printing cards in a functionally identical form. If wizards wanted to circumvent/cheat the list they could just print snow-covered dual lands. However WotC didn't do that with the commander decks because they're morons that don't want to make money (if they mass produced the **** out of the commander decks and put snow duals in them the product would have been sold out overnight. But instead they gave us command tower. And people cried when they saw a snow-covered dual in Ken Nagle's playtest binder.)
Think of how WRONG it would be if WotC sold singles. They're in the booster selling business and the misc. product business. They don't sell singles. The closest they come to selling singles are the FTV's and this commander's arsenal. But even there they aren't making much money as they probably sell one FTV for something like 15 dollars tops with the MSRP at 34.99.
I think proxies would be a terrible idea to 'test out.' If you want to play legacy outside a tournament/sanctioned event feel free to do so with proxies. I know I do so quite a bit due to having to shift cards around in decks being annoying. But if you're testing for a tournament you'll find out how fun legacy is soon enough even if you have tundra written on the back of a concordia pegasus. Then you'll think to yourself "gee, I should go buy some tundra's." You don't need to participate in a tournament to know a format is fun. You just need to play in some random games outside a tournament to know legacy is fun.
SCG wants the reserved list gone and they have hundreds of revised duals in stock. Why? Because they are the ones who are buying duals at half price so it's pretty hard for their cards to drop below what they bought them for. And it gets their inventory moving a lot faster if legacy became the number 2 constructed format behind standard. CFB and other dealers could live with it rather easily unless their entire inventory is revised dual lands (hint: most dealers make the most money off of standard cards. Not legacy. )
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Ok that makes sense I guess, but in legacy you hardly ever use new cards.
In standard and limited sure, but I'm not advocating proxies for those formats.
Wizards makes no money off of legacy tournaments anyway, right? Is it that great of an excuse if we piss off some of the card sellers like Channelfireball?
No, what your doing is advocating proxies for constructed. What makes you think they would make an acception to the tournament rules for a single format. Basically they will have to change the comp rules for sanctioned constructed play, which applies to more than just Legacy.
After so long, as long as the reserved list stands, the price and rarity of legacy staples on the reserved is going to be significantly high, most likely equal in value as some of the power 9. At that rate, I could see some tournament organizers to allow proxies. But as of now, that is not the case. You can get just about every single established legacy for under $2000. It's still pretty steep in some cases, but not nearly as steep as shelling out over $2000 for a couple of cards.
However, it's not up to wizards if tournament organizers allow proxies or not. It's up to the tournament organizer. When people hear about vintage tournaments having a 10-proxy limit or something like that, it's not hosted by wizards or somebody like SCG.
A LGS near my area actually had sanctioned legacy, modern, and vintage allowing a certain number of proxies for a while. It's a great way to get new players into those formats so they can try out decks.
A LGS near my area actually had sanctioned legacy, modern, and vintage allowing a certain number of proxies for a while. It's a great way to get new players into those formats so they can try out decks.
Again, it's fraudulent to sanction events that allow proxies with the DCI, ask any large TO's.
Again, it's fraudulent to sanction events that allow proxies with the DCI, ask any large TO's.
Not that I disagree with this, but then how come there are very large sanctioned vintage tournaments that allow proxies? I can't name any off the top of my head, but I've certainly heard about them in podcasts and such.
Maybe they're not DCI sanctioned? I mean, who cares if it's sanctioned by the DCI as long as there's prizes involved.
This violates the reserved list as they're printing cards in a functionally identical form.
While MaRo has said this would violate the spirit of the reprint policy (for some reason), the reserve list explicitly only applies to tournament legal cards.
Think of how WRONG it would be if WotC sold singles. They're in the booster selling business and the misc. product business. They don't sell singles.
Who said anything about singles? I think WotC should sell gold bordered collectors edition products. Not by the single. That said, if WotC wanted to sell individual card packets, how would this be wrong? They can sell whatever they want - free market.
The closest they come to selling singles are the FTV's and this commander's arsenal. But even there they aren't making much money as they probably sell one FTV for something like 15 dollars tops with the MSRP at 34.99.
How is that not much money? FTV has as many cards as a booster, but sells for much higher.
It is fraudulent to run DCI sanctioned tournaments that allow proxies unless noted in the circumstances above...
...Just so we can squash that bug right now.
Squash the bug as in report the store? No thanks, not my style! I'd rather confront the store directly as the owner is probably unaware of the infarction. They might have already straightened this out - they've been sanctioned for less than a month.
And there's a reason they stopped making those World Championship decks, no one bought them.
Perhaps you are right, but I thought the opposite. The year they stopped is the year the champ decks would have been loaded with gold bordered shock lands. Since kitchen table magic still drove prices in those days, I'd assumed WotC feared casual players would eat up these as proxies and sales of Ravnica (still being produced) would suffer.
Actually, forget legacy, standard should be the proxy format. Thats the one that attracts all the newer players. Pretty sure wizards makes most of their money from new/casual players.
Legacy players are like a cancer in the magic world. They only buy a few new cards every set to add to their decks, and even then its via singles or trades. How can wizards make money off of them?
If I had reservations, by now you're clearly just tossing up ridiculous posts. Infraction for Spam/Trolling.
-Warden
While MaRo has said this would violate the spirit of the reprint policy (for some reason), the reserve list explicitly only applies to tournament legal cards.
Coincidentally if proxies were made tournament legal then they couldn't print them as they would be tournament legal and would violate the reserved list. Anyways hypothetical discussion is hypothetical. WotC isn't going to allow proxies in sanctioned tournaments.
And when I say it would be wrong if WotC sold singles, imagine this scenario:
Jace, Architect of mind is currently 40-50 dollars a pop. Now lets say WotC printed a metric **** ton of jace, architect of mind and didn't put any into packs. Instead they distributed it among their employees to go out and sell all of these jaces to dealers or something directly at some events just hundreds of thousands of copies. The price would tank and WotC would be incredibly rich when their employees came back and handed them all the money they just got from printing and selling jace's directly to dealers. People would be PISSED if they found out that WotC did this and devalued their jace's that they bought at 50 a pop. Such a move by WotC would be highly unethical in terms of business as WotC would have crossed a line if they hypothetically did this. They won't do this because they don't want to lose their entire playerbase (I know I wouldn't buy another pack or product if WotC sold singles.)
Happy trolling Obama. Your latest post above this one proves it. Blatant trolling is blatant.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Actually, forget legacy, standard should be the proxy format. Thats the one that attracts all the newer players. Pretty sure wizards makes most of their money from new/casual players.
Legacy players are like a cancer in the magic world. They only buy a few new cards every set to add to their decks, and even then its via singles or trades. How can wizards make money off of them?
This post is less subtle then the one it replaced.
The other post, you deleted/or edited sounded like a complete and total strawman Obama, complete with the "my friends" and the class-warfare.
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What's the big deal? You could have played multiple Righteous Avengers for years now.
Coincidentally if proxies were made tournament legal then they couldn't print them as they would be tournament legal and would violate the reserved list
I was aware of that irony, but it rests on shaky semantics. If proxies were made legal, an Island could just as easily proxy your Black Lotus as a new collector's edition card, so by your logic they couldn't print anything!
Also, it would depend on the manner in which they were allowed. If proxies were only allowed in limited number in limited formats, they would not be tournament legal in the same sense that real cards are.
Anyway, all I've been saying is that if DCI were to allow proxies, then it would be nice if WotC would print and market nice ones because card art helps make the game enjoyable.
For this thread to continue, please keep the discussion relevant to proxies and their application. If this devolves into complaining about prices, we have a dedicated thread for that.
-Warden
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Anyway, all I've been saying is that if DCI were to allow proxies, then it would be nice if WotC would print and market nice ones because card art helps make the game enjoyable.
Sorry for my previous irrational behavior earlier in the thread, I will try to keep this topic civil and reasonable.
It has come to my attention that proxies would indeed be a bad idea for high level competitive play, but I think at the local gaming store level, where only store credit is offered as prize, proxies can indeed be acceptable and would definitely help to increase attendance.
I believe the increase in players would offset the initial decrease in sales from not needing to purchase cards for 100% of your deck, although the numbers would need to be calculated to prove this theory correct.
It has come to my attention that proxies would indeed be a bad idea for high level competitive play, but I think at the local gaming store level, where only store credit is offered as prize, proxies can indeed be acceptable and would definitely help to increase attendance.
Casual MTG is fine, I play every Thursday at my LGS. Type 4, EDH, Legacy, Standard, Modern, Cube all of it.
But let me make this clear, as a tournament player, I will never attend a casual tournament. It's the reason I no longer play Vintage. And tournaments with Proxies, are for all intents and purposes, casual. And I sure most of people who actually play Legacy would share that sentiment.
Casual MTG is fine, I play every Thursday at my LGS. Type 4, EDH, Legacy, Standard, Modern, Cube all of it.
But let me make this clear, as a tournament player, I will never attend a casual tournament. It's the reason I no longer play Vintage. And tournaments with Proxies, are for all intents and purposes, casual. And I sure most of people who actually play Legacy would share that sentiment.
Do you think that the vintage tournaments that allowed proxy cards were worse because they allowed them?
It cannot possibly be considered a casual tournament if there is a prize, which is what happened. Or did official play rules crack down on these type of events?
Like it or not, legacy is slowly becoming more and more like vintage because of the reserved list. All of these cards on the reserved list will go the way of the power nine and be increasingly more valuable
I guess it all comes down to the debate about competitive games that involve purchasing the pieces (TCGs) vs competitive games that do not (Chess, Poker).
Chess isn't dead despite the fact that you don't need to constantly buy new boards or pieces. It's still alive because its a great game for a wide audience.
The question is: is Magic a great enough game that it could stay popular if there wasn't a company making money off of selling the cards?
I think it may have just gotten to the point, that, if Magic were to stop being produced tomorrow, it would still be popular for years to come. At this point, proxies would obviously be allowed.
Thats right! But the etiquette is inform your opponent that you have proxies before the match. Its rude not too and would certainly get you an auto-loss if you didn't say anything in advance. Generally there is an understanding and it works at the store I play at.
Were talking a $6 entrance fee for 4 rounds of legacy fun. If that 'risk' is too high then don't play but its an excellent way to give someone and opportunity to play paper legacy.
I really don't mind proxies at the local LGS where its $6 to play and $12 credit to X-1s. But I am 100% against proxies at the higher level, no GPs, PTQs, PT, SCG, nationals, qualifiers, etc.
This argument isn't valid. Everyone knows going into chess that this is how it's played, no one had to buy in. Removing that now will kill a ton of online stores, not to mention the feelings of people who bought dual lands or FoW or anything else pricey to finish off a deck.
The reserve list is a problem for Legacy, though we probably have a few years before its an oppressive one. Proxies are not the solution though.
Afro Dave, @st4rwind on Twitter
Level 2 Judge
Legacy Decks:
- Imperial Bloodwolf R
- Rifter RW
- Rockman WBG
- Burn R
- T.E.S. WUBRG
- Belcher RG
- 10 Land Stompy G
- Zoo (budget) RGW
I think up to 5 proxies but no more would be an interesting idea to test out. You still need to own the other 70 cards. Lets say you own underground sea and use a bug deck, but you have decided to test out rug instead. It would be nice if you could do this without needing to get a playset of volcanic island.
I understand why people wouldnt agree at higher levels, but wouldnt that also increase the attendence and thus the profit? Are selling singles really a greater source of income than cost to enter?
The most popular games in the world are popular because anyone can play immediately. Football, chess, go, tennis. Who is to say magic wouldnt be more popular without the collection cost?
Limited is very popular, and everyone pays the same cost as everyone else to play. People generally dont like the type of elitism that constucted formats use, because it can detract from the fun of the game
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Um, playtesting?
WotC does not make money on singles, they make money on Boosters. Singles are all secondary market, and they would sell less boosters if you needed to open less to get the cards you wanted.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Ok that makes sense I guess, but in legacy you hardly ever use new cards.
In standard and limited sure, but I'm not advocating proxies for those formats.
Wizards makes no money off of legacy tournaments anyway, right? Is it that great of an excuse if we piss off some of the card sellers like Channelfireball?
This violates the reserved list as they're printing cards in a functionally identical form. If wizards wanted to circumvent/cheat the list they could just print snow-covered dual lands. However WotC didn't do that with the commander decks because they're morons that don't want to make money (if they mass produced the **** out of the commander decks and put snow duals in them the product would have been sold out overnight. But instead they gave us command tower. And people cried when they saw a snow-covered dual in Ken Nagle's playtest binder.)
Think of how WRONG it would be if WotC sold singles. They're in the booster selling business and the misc. product business. They don't sell singles. The closest they come to selling singles are the FTV's and this commander's arsenal. But even there they aren't making much money as they probably sell one FTV for something like 15 dollars tops with the MSRP at 34.99.
I think proxies would be a terrible idea to 'test out.' If you want to play legacy outside a tournament/sanctioned event feel free to do so with proxies. I know I do so quite a bit due to having to shift cards around in decks being annoying. But if you're testing for a tournament you'll find out how fun legacy is soon enough even if you have tundra written on the back of a concordia pegasus. Then you'll think to yourself "gee, I should go buy some tundra's." You don't need to participate in a tournament to know a format is fun. You just need to play in some random games outside a tournament to know legacy is fun.
SCG wants the reserved list gone and they have hundreds of revised duals in stock. Why? Because they are the ones who are buying duals at half price so it's pretty hard for their cards to drop below what they bought them for. And it gets their inventory moving a lot faster if legacy became the number 2 constructed format behind standard. CFB and other dealers could live with it rather easily unless their entire inventory is revised dual lands (hint: most dealers make the most money off of standard cards. Not legacy. )
Currently Playing:
Retired
No, what your doing is advocating proxies for constructed. What makes you think they would make an acception to the tournament rules for a single format. Basically they will have to change the comp rules for sanctioned constructed play, which applies to more than just Legacy.
Your ignorance is kind of amazing.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
However, it's not up to wizards if tournament organizers allow proxies or not. It's up to the tournament organizer. When people hear about vintage tournaments having a 10-proxy limit or something like that, it's not hosted by wizards or somebody like SCG.
A LGS near my area actually had sanctioned legacy, modern, and vintage allowing a certain number of proxies for a while. It's a great way to get new players into those formats so they can try out decks.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Again, it's fraudulent to sanction events that allow proxies with the DCI, ask any large TO's.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Not that I disagree with this, but then how come there are very large sanctioned vintage tournaments that allow proxies? I can't name any off the top of my head, but I've certainly heard about them in podcasts and such.
Maybe they're not DCI sanctioned? I mean, who cares if it's sanctioned by the DCI as long as there's prizes involved.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Afro Dave, @st4rwind on Twitter
Level 2 Judge
Legacy Decks:
- Imperial Bloodwolf R
- Rifter RW
- Rockman WBG
- Burn R
- T.E.S. WUBRG
- Belcher RG
- 10 Land Stompy G
- Zoo (budget) RGW
While MaRo has said this would violate the spirit of the reprint policy (for some reason), the reserve list explicitly only applies to tournament legal cards.
Who said anything about singles? I think WotC should sell gold bordered collectors edition products. Not by the single. That said, if WotC wanted to sell individual card packets, how would this be wrong? They can sell whatever they want - free market.
How is that not much money? FTV has as many cards as a booster, but sells for much higher.
Squash the bug as in report the store? No thanks, not my style! I'd rather confront the store directly as the owner is probably unaware of the infarction. They might have already straightened this out - they've been sanctioned for less than a month.
Perhaps you are right, but I thought the opposite. The year they stopped is the year the champ decks would have been loaded with gold bordered shock lands. Since kitchen table magic still drove prices in those days, I'd assumed WotC feared casual players would eat up these as proxies and sales of Ravnica (still being produced) would suffer.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Legacy players are like a cancer in the magic world. They only buy a few new cards every set to add to their decks, and even then its via singles or trades. How can wizards make money off of them?
If I had reservations, by now you're clearly just tossing up ridiculous posts. Infraction for Spam/Trolling.
-Warden
Coincidentally if proxies were made tournament legal then they couldn't print them as they would be tournament legal and would violate the reserved list. Anyways hypothetical discussion is hypothetical. WotC isn't going to allow proxies in sanctioned tournaments.
And when I say it would be wrong if WotC sold singles, imagine this scenario:
Jace, Architect of mind is currently 40-50 dollars a pop. Now lets say WotC printed a metric **** ton of jace, architect of mind and didn't put any into packs. Instead they distributed it among their employees to go out and sell all of these jaces to dealers or something directly at some events just hundreds of thousands of copies. The price would tank and WotC would be incredibly rich when their employees came back and handed them all the money they just got from printing and selling jace's directly to dealers. People would be PISSED if they found out that WotC did this and devalued their jace's that they bought at 50 a pop. Such a move by WotC would be highly unethical in terms of business as WotC would have crossed a line if they hypothetically did this. They won't do this because they don't want to lose their entire playerbase (I know I wouldn't buy another pack or product if WotC sold singles.)
Happy trolling Obama. Your latest post above this one proves it. Blatant trolling is blatant.
Currently Playing:
Retired
This post is less subtle then the one it replaced.
The other post, you deleted/or edited sounded like a complete and total strawman Obama, complete with the "my friends" and the class-warfare.
I was aware of that irony, but it rests on shaky semantics. If proxies were made legal, an Island could just as easily proxy your Black Lotus as a new collector's edition card, so by your logic they couldn't print anything!
Also, it would depend on the manner in which they were allowed. If proxies were only allowed in limited number in limited formats, they would not be tournament legal in the same sense that real cards are.
Anyway, all I've been saying is that if DCI were to allow proxies, then it would be nice if WotC would print and market nice ones because card art helps make the game enjoyable.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
-Warden
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=203629
This is the thread I use to make foil proxies for my cube, much better than writing on an Island
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
It has come to my attention that proxies would indeed be a bad idea for high level competitive play, but I think at the local gaming store level, where only store credit is offered as prize, proxies can indeed be acceptable and would definitely help to increase attendance.
I believe the increase in players would offset the initial decrease in sales from not needing to purchase cards for 100% of your deck, although the numbers would need to be calculated to prove this theory correct.
I dunno, Island is OP, mox are OP, seems like you're just writing one piece of power onto another...
EDIT: An entire cube made of proxied Islands would be just as powerful if all the cards were island. Especially the green (oh snap I went there.)
Casual MTG is fine, I play every Thursday at my LGS. Type 4, EDH, Legacy, Standard, Modern, Cube all of it.
But let me make this clear, as a tournament player, I will never attend a casual tournament. It's the reason I no longer play Vintage. And tournaments with Proxies, are for all intents and purposes, casual. And I sure most of people who actually play Legacy would share that sentiment.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Do you think that the vintage tournaments that allowed proxy cards were worse because they allowed them?
It cannot possibly be considered a casual tournament if there is a prize, which is what happened. Or did official play rules crack down on these type of events?
Like it or not, legacy is slowly becoming more and more like vintage because of the reserved list. All of these cards on the reserved list will go the way of the power nine and be increasingly more valuable
GP: Philadelphia - 495 Players
GP: Lille - 926 Players
2007
GP: Columbus - 839 Players
2009
GP: Chicago - 1134 Players
2010
GP: Madrid - 2208 Players
GP: Columbus - 1195 Players
2011
GP: Providence - 1342 Players
GP: Amsterdam - 2107 Players
2012
GP: Indy - 1159 Players
GP: Atlanta - 876 Players
Not too mention all the SCG opens that have occurred.
Care to compare these #'s to Vintage?
Will Legacy go the way of Vintage? Maybe, but it won't be happening anytime soon, and it's definitely not close.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer