Has anyone encountered Eldrazi yet? If so, what's the match-up like? Any SB options? With Eternal Masters coming out, I imagine a lot of players will make the transition into Legacy via an accessible deck like Eldrazi, so I'd like to get prepared.
How do you like running a 2nd thoughtseize over a toxic deluge? Also, how do you like 2 jace?
I'm actually not much of a fan of Toxic Deluge, especially not maindeck. I find that the deck handles creatures well enough without it. I suppose it depends on your meta; if there are significant numbers of decks where you really would not mind a Deluge (like Elves, decks with True-Name Nemesis, Death and Taxes), it's probably fine to play it. But my meta and the online meta seem rather more combo-oriented, which is why I want the Thoughtseize. Jace is also quite good in my meta, with a lot of Miracles, Reanimator, and other green-black midrange decks (such as Jund or the mirror).
Has anyone encountered Eldrazi yet? If so, what's the match-up like? Any SB options? With Eternal Masters coming out, I imagine a lot of players will make the transition into Legacy via an accessible deck like Eldrazi, so I'd like to get prepared.
I haven't, no. I haven't actually played much Magic recently, but I'm sure that'll change - especially with Legacy Leagues now online.
Hi! I'm new in legacy and I'm playing this deck on magic online, can anyone give some advices of how to beat show and tell and ABT? and some sideboard tips
Thanks in advance!
I don't even know what you mean by ABT, but against Show and Tell, you're certainly behind, but you beat them by having a clock (like Tarmogoyf) backed up by discard and/or Force of Will. Vendilion Clique is also quite good, and Sower of Temptation from the board can beat their Show and Tell-plan. Sneak Attack is the actual problem, most of the time, against which I would recommend Pithing Needle.
Ah, okay. Against ANT, I feel like we're favored. I don't even know if I've ever lost to the deck. The sample size I have is low, perhaps seven matches, but it probably does show that it is not bad for us, at the very least. It's better for us than the Show and Tell-matchup due to them having a less disruption back. They do have Duress and/or Cabal Therapy, but they won't have Forces or Dazes, and they also won't have Blood Moons after board. Deathrite Shaman is great against them; it's a valuable clock, it disrupts their Past in Flames and Cabal Ritual, and it can even sometimes get you out of range of a lethal Tendrils.
I played five Magic Online Leagues with this greedy list:Yes, that's a maindeck Life from the Loam. Mise. Cut a Tarmogoyf because I'm very greedy, but I'm not sure if this is as advisable for the Magic Online metagame as it is for my local meta; there seems to be a lot more combo and a lot fewer Miracles online. But the Loam has been pretty sweet so far; in one game against MUD, I Wastelanded him eight times. In game one. He did not come back from that. I've punished a fair few other decks with the Loam too, and in a real life event a couple of weeks back, I managed to turn the tables on my unsuspecting Death&Taxes-opponent, and left him without mana in play. I'm not sure whether it's correct or not to jam the maindeck Loam, but it sure is sweet.
League results: 3-2, 3-2, 4-1, 4-1, 4-1 (in that order). I think the matchups were:
Miracles - 3-0
Dredge - 3-0 (one manaless)
Burn - 2-0
Ad Nauseam Tendrils - 2-0
Shardless BUG - 1-1 (I played badly and lost deservedly in the one I lost)
Infect - 1-1 (same as above)
Elves - 1-1 (I probably played badly in the one I lost here too)
4C Delver - 0-2 (I think I ran really badly here - got screwed a lot, and in one game my opponent went Probe/Therapy for three Baleful Strixes. Stuff like that)
UR Delver - 1-0
MUD - 1-0
Eldrazi - 1-0
Goblins - 1-0 (this was a weird Goblin list with maindeck Blood Moons and Chalices - I guess it was kind of an Imperial Painter deck with its combo pieces swapped for high-impact Goblins)
Zombies - 1-0 (the Goblin Bombardment Zombie deck)
Lands - 0-1 (I lost 0-2, but both games looked close, but then he drew a crucial card at some critical moment to take the win)
W/R Imperial Taxes - 0-1 (he got me with Moons both games. I thought I was covered in game 2, as I had Thoughtseize and Force, but he both had two Maguses of the Moon and he had a Cavern of Souls)
I'll give me update. Overall I did terrible, it was an odd meta.
Round 1 - goblins. I hymn'd him down to 0 cards but goblin ringleader just get him back in. Loss
Round 2 - grixis delver. Got mana screwed couldn't do anything. Loss
Round 3 - mud. Hymn was boss. Swings with shardless and goyf end itm win
Round 4 - bye.
Top 8 round 1- same goblin guy, same result
why dont more people run sylvan library in the main? ive just recently put together shardless bug and for me the strongest interaction in the deck is setting up cascades with brainstorm/jace. why isnt library played in the main? is it because it doesnt play well with jace? or? also ive bee super disapointed with pulse and deluge in the main. hymn to tourach seems very weak sometimes, and is the most awkward spell (manawise) in our deck to cast is it worth over more copies of thoughtseize?
i chose bug over jund because of force of will and i wasnt feeling the punishing fire thing. im pretty happy so far, doing my best to understand the transition from modern jund to shardless bug in legacy.
this thread is dead! eternal masters is coming lets spice it up!
why dont more people run sylvan library in the main? ive just recently put together shardless bug and for me the strongest interaction in the deck is setting up cascades with brainstorm/jace. why isnt library played in the main? is it because it doesnt play well with jace? or? also ive bee super disapointed with pulse and deluge in the main. hymn to tourach seems very weak sometimes, and is the most awkward spell (manawise) in our deck to cast is it worth over more copies of thoughtseize?
i chose bug over jund because of force of will and i wasnt feeling the punishing fire thing. im pretty happy so far, doing my best to understand the transition from modern jund to shardless bug in legacy.
this thread is dead! eternal masters is coming lets spice it up!
I really like Deluge against all decks that run creatures. And Pulse is the only out to a resolved Jace.
But if you don't like/need them, just replace them with Strixes and/or Thoughseize depending on your meta :).
Regarding the rumored death of the thread, The Source is a better source(!) for Legacy discussion.
Does anyone have any tips on how to reliably play/beat Grixis and RUG Delver? I took Shardless BUG to SCG Worcester (my first big tournament with the deck) and went 11-4, and all my losses were to delver. Aside from my last RUG Delver game (other 3 were another RUG delver, and 2 Grixis delver), I felt like I got rolled over on three of those matches.
Just... the total resource denial package. Deathrite's dying immediately, wastelands keeping me at 2 or less lands, and thus being unable to play around daze. Played Gerard Fabiano day 2, and got hit with 3 wastelands and all 4 daze's in the first game; was as frustrating and humiliating as it sounds haha. Just... good delver pilots playing well and keeping me locked out. And you think keeping in Hymn is correct? I feel like in theory, Delver operates well with so few resources that it's almost a dead card against them. Though obviously, could be wrong about that.. but it does also feed their Gurmag Angler.
I guess I was just assuming it was game 1 and you were using your main deck. I would certainly consider keeping 2+ if you're playing first, though. I personally really like Hymn because it so often messes up their whole plan.
You could consider Life from the Loam from the sideboard to help fight the land battle. I don't think it's super common for Shardless BUG to include one, but I like to. If you suspend Ancestral Vision on turn 1 you will recover from Wasteland almost certainly before they can kill you.
Don't feel bad about losing to ridiculous hands like 3 Wastes and 4 Daze. Your deck is not designed to beat silly stuff like that, and it will very rarely (probably never) happen again.
Hello! Long time Shardless fan but first time speaker. Has anyone tried slotting the Thopter/Sword combo in the deck. Dropping the goyfs and moving an AV to the board to make room. Or does that just leave us a lot more susceptible to fast decks? I've played a few games with it at FNM and just the sheer number of thopters overwhelm most decks.
(It also could be a more budget friendly option, though I know this isn't the budget forum)
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"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain bad at Magic."
-Benjamin "The Innovator" Franklin
Standard:
Nothing, hate standard after Rhino
Modern:
Looking at Evolution Decks, RUG or [mana]WRG[mana]
Legacy:
Shardless Foundry ('Cause I have a crippling addiction to Shardless Agent)BUG (and I'm to broke for goyfs)
EDH: RGUSurrak Dragon Tribal!RGU URArjun StormUR GUEzuri TokensGU GRBUYidris GoodstuffGRBU
I've never considered that. What kind of matchups do you bring it in for? I can see removing a couple AV sometimes, but I very rarely want less than 4 Goyfs.
What makes our deck good for the combo? I don't know if there is a popular set list, but there is a such thing as Esper (I think) Thopter Sword already, and it's not as strong as Shardless BUG.
I don't want to seem like I'm not open to the idea, I just want to know more about your experience with it.
To be honest I've played the deck a bit before the Cruise/Dig era and haven't touched it since. Here is the list, it's a little outdated though. I played a few matches against UB reanimator and easily crushed them with a turn 1 leyline of the void every game. And some games versus maverick who had a hard time removing multiple thopters, unfortunately my mana is extremely greedy and I haven't played against price of progress decks.
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"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain bad at Magic."
-Benjamin "The Innovator" Franklin
Standard:
Nothing, hate standard after Rhino
Modern:
Looking at Evolution Decks, RUG or [mana]WRG[mana]
Legacy:
Shardless Foundry ('Cause I have a crippling addiction to Shardless Agent)BUG (and I'm to broke for goyfs)
EDH: RGUSurrak Dragon Tribal!RGU URArjun StormUR GUEzuri TokensGU GRBUYidris GoodstuffGRBU
you have to cut tarmogoyfs in opt for this card, Which increases the amount of 3 drops in the deck. It is certainly good against the increasing number of DnT decks spawning. It also top from countering your 1 mana spells by looping itself.
I am speccing on that card to do well as a 1-2 of.
As for the deck right now, The SB changes a lot since DnT is getting more popular isn't it? Massacres are in again as well as dread.
I'm not sure you want to cut targets for Shardless Agent and increase the curve while the deck already struggles against land denial. We've seen Shardless BUG lists with 0-1 Jace, 0-3 Lilianas, find room for a TNN... I think this is where I would make a cut.
Leovold seems insanely strong on paper, it punishes almost everything (Land Denial, P. Fire, SFM equipments, Burn, etc...). He's in the slot of other very strong cards though.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Yeah, i talked about the list afterwards with a friend. We had to cut a lot and move the tarmo back to 4 since it was very important g1. I think we can side in 1 leo for g2 and g3.
I believe liliana, the last hope is the real deal vs. DnT and miracles vs. Garruk. It comes down a turn earlier, her ultimate is a clock against miracles or grindy match ups. I will continue further testing on last hope and possible jump her to 2. But that is too much for the side to handle atm. The MB 1 of sylvan instead of the 4th AV has helped IMMENSELY. In 10 games, i was able to stack my shardless cascades without the need to brainstorm. I get to conserve my brainstorms for hand disrupts and stack my deck efficiently. I cut the disfigure for dismembers because TKS is a threat to the deck, since you need more MB answers than 4 of them. Baleful is a wall, but they already took a good card so i need to put in more good cards and leovold helps in this scenario to help with the CA. I will see about TNN, but i don't think we need TNN for this format. TNN can't help you kill TKS and I will prob cycle TS for TNN and other one-ofs. But i think TS is the best for the format currently while we cycle through.
I will take the hit for the large amount of pyroblast against my jace and just let it die since pyroblast hits 80% of the deck anyways. We will see as i will possibly get back TNN that i let my friend borrow for deathblade.
I guess the 2nd Lili LH could take the slot of a Dread of Night. Depends on what kind of Miracles players you face in your environment and whether you fear D&T or not.
About Library, I also like the fact it grows Tarmo most of the time, because opponents will get rid of it asap. Incidental bonus !
I agree with your set up VS Eldrazi, this archetype is kind of everywhere.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I would gladly replace my Disfigures with Fatal Pushes. The problem is, I took the Disfigures out quite a while ago because they're so weak against Eldrazi.
Right now I would have a hard time making room for Fatal Push in Shardless BUG, but I'm pumped to use it in BUG Delver.
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League results: 3-2, 3-2, 4-1, 4-1, 4-1 (in that order). I think the matchups were:
Round 1 - goblins. I hymn'd him down to 0 cards but goblin ringleader just get him back in. Loss
Round 2 - grixis delver. Got mana screwed couldn't do anything. Loss
Round 3 - mud. Hymn was boss. Swings with shardless and goyf end itm win
Round 4 - bye.
Top 8 round 1- same goblin guy, same result
i chose bug over jund because of force of will and i wasnt feeling the punishing fire thing. im pretty happy so far, doing my best to understand the transition from modern jund to shardless bug in legacy.
this thread is dead! eternal masters is coming lets spice it up!
The source?
Well, we can't expect to reliably beat tier 1 decks, can we? That'd make us like tier 0
I think we should have a pretty good matchup against Delver decks. Abrupt Decay kills everything but Gurmag Angler, which Tarmogoyf and Baleful Strix (also good against Delver of Secrets) block anyway. Don't let them Daze your Hymn to Tourach and they'll be in trouble. Your sideboard should make it easier too if you have like Pernicious Deed, Maelstrom Pulse, or other removal to bring in.
What exactly are you having trouble with?
You could consider Life from the Loam from the sideboard to help fight the land battle. I don't think it's super common for Shardless BUG to include one, but I like to. If you suspend Ancestral Vision on turn 1 you will recover from Wasteland almost certainly before they can kill you.
Don't feel bad about losing to ridiculous hands like 3 Wastes and 4 Daze. Your deck is not designed to beat silly stuff like that, and it will very rarely (probably never) happen again.
(It also could be a more budget friendly option, though I know this isn't the budget forum)
-Benjamin "The Innovator" Franklin
Standard:
Nothing, hate standard after Rhino
Modern:
Looking at Evolution Decks, RUG or [mana]WRG[mana]
Legacy:
Shardless Foundry ('Cause I have a crippling addiction to Shardless Agent) BUG (and I'm to broke for goyfs)
EDH:
RGUSurrak Dragon Tribal!RGU
URArjun StormUR
GUEzuri TokensGU
GRBUYidris GoodstuffGRBU
What makes our deck good for the combo? I don't know if there is a popular set list, but there is a such thing as Esper (I think) Thopter Sword already, and it's not as strong as Shardless BUG.
I don't want to seem like I'm not open to the idea, I just want to know more about your experience with it.
-Benjamin "The Innovator" Franklin
Standard:
Nothing, hate standard after Rhino
Modern:
Looking at Evolution Decks, RUG or [mana]WRG[mana]
Legacy:
Shardless Foundry ('Cause I have a crippling addiction to Shardless Agent) BUG (and I'm to broke for goyfs)
EDH:
RGUSurrak Dragon Tribal!RGU
URArjun StormUR
GUEzuri TokensGU
GRBUYidris GoodstuffGRBU
I am speccing on that card to do well as a 1-2 of.
As for the deck right now, The SB changes a lot since DnT is getting more popular isn't it? Massacres are in again as well as dread.
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Baleful Strix
2 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
2 Leovold Emissary of Trest
Spells: 25
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
2 Hymn
4 Force of Will
4 Abrupts
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the mind sculptor
2 Thoughtseize
4 Misty
4 Delta
1 Verdant
3 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Lumbering Falls
2 nihil Spellbomb
2 Baleful Strix
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Massacre
2 Dread of Night
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sylvan Library
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Life from the Loam
1 Duress
Leovold seems insanely strong on paper, it punishes almost everything (Land Denial, P. Fire, SFM equipments, Burn, etc...). He's in the slot of other very strong cards though.
Deck and Side updated
4 Deathrite
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Baleful
4 Shardless
Spells: 21
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Hymn
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Ancestral Vision
1 Sylvan Library
2 Liliana
1 Jace, the mind sculptor
Land: 22
4 Delta
4 Verdant
1 Misty
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Trop
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Leovold, Emissary of trest
1 Liliana, the last hope
2 Dread of Night
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
4 Leyline of the Void
2 dismember
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Life from the Loam
I believe liliana, the last hope is the real deal vs. DnT and miracles vs. Garruk. It comes down a turn earlier, her ultimate is a clock against miracles or grindy match ups. I will continue further testing on last hope and possible jump her to 2. But that is too much for the side to handle atm. The MB 1 of sylvan instead of the 4th AV has helped IMMENSELY. In 10 games, i was able to stack my shardless cascades without the need to brainstorm. I get to conserve my brainstorms for hand disrupts and stack my deck efficiently. I cut the disfigure for dismembers because TKS is a threat to the deck, since you need more MB answers than 4 of them. Baleful is a wall, but they already took a good card so i need to put in more good cards and leovold helps in this scenario to help with the CA. I will see about TNN, but i don't think we need TNN for this format. TNN can't help you kill TKS and I will prob cycle TS for TNN and other one-ofs. But i think TS is the best for the format currently while we cycle through.
I will take the hit for the large amount of pyroblast against my jace and just let it die since pyroblast hits 80% of the deck anyways. We will see as i will possibly get back TNN that i let my friend borrow for deathblade.
About Library, I also like the fact it grows Tarmo most of the time, because opponents will get rid of it asap. Incidental bonus !
I agree with your set up VS Eldrazi, this archetype is kind of everywhere.
Right now I would have a hard time making room for Fatal Push in Shardless BUG, but I'm pumped to use it in BUG Delver.