I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Trample is very valuable with the equipment. So is double-strike. I'm debating if I wanna go back to Mirran Crusaders -- especially if BUG comes back into the mix. The other option is Siege Rhino, who is a goddamn tank of a 4/5.
Yes please, I'm itching to play Mirran Crusader in my Maverick deck again. Or even better, the super secret Great Sable Stag tech. But seriously, the Crusader is nuts in this deck in BGx metas, his only shortcomings are that he's WW and can't be zenithed.
On the subject of Delve-Dudes; I've been enamored by Hooting Mandrill's trample next to Jitte/SoFaI. Not enough to test it yet :p, but given that the only thing in legacy that has a big enough butt for the Mandrills is Goyf (which is only sometimes true, especially with equips involved) I think he may have the ability to close games against fair decks (and dodge CB) well enough to find a home in Maverick or Junk, curious if anyone here has used him/that interaction yet.
I'm not crazy about playing delve men in this deck, although I haven't tested any. Maverick is relatively poor at filling its own graveyard and several of your men (Knight, DRS, Scooze) are already fighting over food. Also, they can't be zenithed effectively (Mandrills) or at all (Tasigur).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Do you like Green midrange decks? Check out my My Magic Blog!
Just wanted to get your guys input on this list. There is also 1 more slot available ,but I couldn't think of anything to put in maybe the 4th Thalia? Not sure.
Any suggestions and criticisms are greatly appreciated.
...Just wanted to get your guys input on this list. There is also 1 more slot available ,but I couldn't think of anything to put in maybe the 4th Thalia? Not sure.
Any suggestions and criticisms are greatly appreciated.
1) What are you facing? Lists on their own do very little.
2) No dryad arbor makes me sad
3) 22 lands, no dryad, only 4 mana dorks is pushing your lands down quite low. Thalia on top of non-creature spells exacerbates the problem.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
...Just wanted to get your guys input on this list. There is also 1 more slot available ,but I couldn't think of anything to put in maybe the 4th Thalia? Not sure.
Any suggestions and criticisms are greatly appreciated.
1) What are you facing? Lists on their own do very little.
2) No dryad arbor makes me sad
3) 22 lands, no dryad, only 4 mana dorks is pushing your lands down quite low. Thalia on top of non-creature spells exacerbates the problem.
1) Mostly RUG/BUG Delver variants and combo
2) I must have forgot to put Dryad Arbor in the list he is suppose to be in there.
Trample is very valuable with the equipment. So is double-strike. I'm debating if I wanna go back to Mirran Crusaders -- especially if BUG comes back into the mix. The other option is Siege Rhino, who is a goddamn tank of a 4/5.
Yes please, I'm itching to play Mirran Crusader in my Maverick deck again. Or even better, the super secret Great Sable Stag tech. But seriously, the Crusader is nuts in this deck in BGx metas, his only shortcomings are that he's WW and can't be zenithed.
On the subject of Delve-Dudes; I've been enamored by Hooting Mandrill's trample next to Jitte/SoFaI. Not enough to test it yet :p, but given that the only thing in legacy that has a big enough butt for the Mandrills is Goyf (which is only sometimes true, especially with equips involved) I think he may have the ability to close games against fair decks (and dodge CB) well enough to find a home in Maverick or Junk, curious if anyone here has used him/that interaction yet.
I'm not crazy about playing delve men in this deck, although I haven't tested any. Maverick is relatively poor at filling its own graveyard and several of your men (Knight, DRS, Scooze) are already fighting over food. Also, they can't be zenithed effectively (Mandrills) or at all (Tasigur).
Whenever I think about adding more "beef" to my list I always think about it this way.
If they require jumping hoops, would they be better than Dark Depths?
If they're 5 Mana, would they be better than Sigarda/Titania(Recent addition)?
If they're 4 mana, would they be better than Thrun/Wilt-Leaf Liege?
If they're 3 mana, would they be better than Mirran Crusader/Stag (My go to zenith target vs BUG)?
If they're 2 mana, would they be better than extra Scavenging Oozes/Pridemages?
For the most part--I have never seen a creature pass this test. Titania is a recent addition who has been good on cockratice but I have no big tourney experience with yet. But for the most part, a creature has to be as flexible, splashable, and powerful as these guys before even being discussed let alone squeezed into an already tight deck.
I'm a fan of Dark Depths and Sigarda at the moment, but have been successful with Stag and Crusaders as well. I haven't tried Thruns yet, but other maverick players in my area have done well with them. I know how popular 2x scoozes are and I am currently playing with a 4x pridemage suite.
Hello people. I currently have a Death & Taxes deck (which is the mono-white version) and was thinking of converting it to Maverick. Although, I was wondering, what do I gain from this deck and what do I lose switching from Death & Taxes? What is your deck's main win-con?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Your creatures get bigger, more hateful, and more lynchpin.
Your disruption become more broad, less prison-focused, and easier to break out of.
Thanks for the information. I think I will stick with Death & Taxes, as it looks as if it is more focused on controlling the game which is what I want.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Well, they both control the game, the main deal with Maverick vs Taxes is that Maverick leans heavily on trumps to get a total effect as opposed to taxes which depends on the build up of multiple minor effects.
For example:
Wasteland/Port/Thalia +Mangara tricks allows a taxes player to weaken the ability for the opponent to cast spells--but you kind of need all of them.
A turn 2 Knight of the Reliquary, by himself, can sometimes prevent the opponent from casting ANY spells and then already be the finisher afterwards.
Thalia/Revoker +mana denial allows taxes to stifle combo decks.
Turn 2 zenith for Teeg turns off most combo decks.
etc...
In the end they get similar results, the main difference being their methodology and adaptability. Thalia/Revoker/Port will stop almost all combo decks once you get to turn 3. Teeg can't stop a lot of reanimation based combo, and can't stop combo from "digging" for answers. Teeg is just a trump card that, once he's killed, allows the opponent to go back to normal.
This means that most taxes decks wants the games to go long, since (over time) their redundant (but additive) disruption creates a prison state.
Maverick decks tends to get a trump in play and kills the opponent while that trump card neuters them (even if it only neuters them for 3-6 turns)
The main advantage Maverick has over Taxes is that when the games get to the point where both sides have creatures, Maverick tends to always have the better creatures. Usually bigger, have more tricks, and have better combat synergies than almost any other creature deck save reanimator (and even that is not always true). The more combo/spell heavy the meta is--the better taxes is. The more dude/fair/delver heavy the meta is--then Maverick is better.
But always think about it this way. Taxes and Delver leans very heavily on the same tools. Stoneforge/Equipment/MoM/Thalia/Wasteland +Hatebears and Utility lands. Taxes might run 3-4 Revokers while Maverick runs 3-4 one of green creatures, and taxes might run 4 port while maverick runs 4-5 one of utility lands--but that isn't really that different in the grand scheme of things.
I'm curious as to the benefits of running a Gaea's Cradle in dark maverick. What would they be and how would you best take advantage of it? Also, is there a consensus on what burn-hate card to pack in sideboard? Currently I run 3x Leylines, but I'm interested in hearing alternatives.
Cradle has pretty much the same job in every deck it is in, which is to produce a lot of mana. Being able to, for instance, tap only a cradle and be able to GSZ at a 4 or 5 is bonkers. I know that Dark Maverick has to put in less toolbox lands to reliably hit all 3 colors, but the extra ramp that Cradle gives you is generally worth it. The best way to reliably get it out is using a Knight of the Reliquary to tutor it out of your deck. You don't really need to build your deck around it to take advantage of it, because Maverick runs a lot of creatures in it anyway.
To be honest I haven't really thought of Burn as being too sticky of a match-up to put in a lot of hate. Thalia already makes things annoying, plus you can gain life from a Batterskull/Jitte to slow them down further. I don't think I have any Burn hate in my sideboard. If you are having a tough match-up, and/or you have a Burn heavy meta, the white Leyline is as good as any. Maybe a COP:Red, or a Kor Firewalker, or a Burrenton Forge-Tender?
The best burn sideboard is Qasali Pridemage and/or Reclamation Sage.
Burn only has two outs versus you. The nuts, or Sulfuric Vortex to prevent lifegain.
I've started running Courser of Kruphix in my maverick deck as well. Very efficient creature that never feels bad in pretty much any and all matchups. He's been my main staple vs Burn but that's a side effect not a plan. Pridemage is still the best out vs burn.
So I am looking at building a dark maverick build and I was curious if anybody has run Siege Rhino. I know he's a CMC of 4 but damn is he a beast of card.
Siege Rhino is a great card, and even a legacy playable card in something like nic fit or its Pod variant, but we don't have a good way of reusing him. In my opinion, he's not doing enough for 4 mana. 4 mana in legacy is Jace, or Show and Tell, or Moat. I'd honestly just rather play Sigarda at 5 instead. Liliana decks fold like hot laundry once she hits the board.
Any pointers on what to focus on when facing sneak/show/omniscience? It's giving me a hard time, but its likely my misplaying. Wanted to know how you guys strategically deal with it. Thanks!
Against Sneak and Show game one is hard. It's almost always Karakas or bust, sure you can teeg out their sneak attack or thalia them out of mana, but both are massively luck reliant that you don't want to aim for those strategies unless they're right in front of you.
Game 2/3 for me is fine. I take out all Swords to Plowshares for the 4 Thoughtseize, and take out Jitte, Scooze and Courser for the 2 containment priests and the Teeg. I find this gives me enough tools to deal with that particular brand of combo deck.
Apart from turn 2 show and tell(and not even that at times) sneak and show is pretty easy to beat even game one because we're running 4 Knight, 4 Thalia, 4 Wasteland, 3 Pridemage, 1 Teeg, 1 Karakas all of which are great.
Omnishow is harder since Knight/Karakas stops being an out, but even then you're running as many good cards against it as people who run FoW + Dazes. Thing do get easier after game one but I wouldn't describe it as luck dependent as you present.
Any pointers on what to focus on when facing sneak/show/omniscience? It's giving me a hard time, but its likely my misplaying. Wanted to know how you guys strategically deal with it. Thanks!
This is really simple.
You have hatebears you want in play (Teeg, Thalia, Knight, Priest, etc...)
And you have hatebears you want in hand in case they cast Show and Tell (Pridemage, Reclamation Sage, Revoker, Oblivion Ring, etc...)
There are spells you want to cast as soon as possible (GSZ, Moms, etc...)
There are spells you want to cast turns 2-3 after they've sculpted their hand (Duress, Thoughtseize, Wasteland)
There are spells you want to cast after they've started going off (Plow, K-Grips, Priests, etc...)
Strategically speaking, the best you can do is play to what your cards push you towards, and use what you know to play to your outs.
If you have a pridemage in hand, don't tap out so you can hit their Omniscience. If you have an ORing in hand, then cast the pridemage and make them feel like its safe to search for play show and tell after they pithing needle your pridemage. If they play red mana, then zenith for Teeg ASAP so you can prevent them from hard casting Sneak Attack while using Thalia/Wasteland to slow down their Show and Tell. If they don't have red mana, don't even both holding on to Knights and cast them early to start turning them sideways. etc...
Game two and three you'll be better vs them. But game one you just look at what you have and let your deck play for you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Cradle is something of a luxury, and you can build around it. You just won't have the most explosive turns the deck is capable of.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Yes please, I'm itching to play Mirran Crusader in my Maverick deck again. Or even better, the super secret Great Sable Stag tech. But seriously, the Crusader is nuts in this deck in BGx metas, his only shortcomings are that he's WW and can't be zenithed.
I'm not crazy about playing delve men in this deck, although I haven't tested any. Maverick is relatively poor at filling its own graveyard and several of your men (Knight, DRS, Scooze) are already fighting over food. Also, they can't be zenithed effectively (Mandrills) or at all (Tasigur).
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
Lands
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
Just wanted to get your guys input on this list. There is also 1 more slot available ,but I couldn't think of anything to put in maybe the 4th Thalia? Not sure.
Any suggestions and criticisms are greatly appreciated.
1) What are you facing? Lists on their own do very little.
2) No dryad arbor makes me sad
3) 22 lands, no dryad, only 4 mana dorks is pushing your lands down quite low. Thalia on top of non-creature spells exacerbates the problem.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
1) Mostly RUG/BUG Delver variants and combo
2) I must have forgot to put Dryad Arbor in the list he is suppose to be in there.
Whenever I think about adding more "beef" to my list I always think about it this way.
If they require jumping hoops, would they be better than Dark Depths?
If they're 5 Mana, would they be better than Sigarda/Titania(Recent addition)?
If they're 4 mana, would they be better than Thrun/Wilt-Leaf Liege?
If they're 3 mana, would they be better than Mirran Crusader/Stag (My go to zenith target vs BUG)?
If they're 2 mana, would they be better than extra Scavenging Oozes/Pridemages?
For the most part--I have never seen a creature pass this test. Titania is a recent addition who has been good on cockratice but I have no big tourney experience with yet. But for the most part, a creature has to be as flexible, splashable, and powerful as these guys before even being discussed let alone squeezed into an already tight deck.
I'm a fan of Dark Depths and Sigarda at the moment, but have been successful with Stag and Crusaders as well. I haven't tried Thruns yet, but other maverick players in my area have done well with them. I know how popular 2x scoozes are and I am currently playing with a 4x pridemage suite.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Your disruption become more broad, less prison-focused, and easier to break out of.
Thanks for the information. I think I will stick with Death & Taxes, as it looks as if it is more focused on controlling the game which is what I want.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
For example:
Wasteland/Port/Thalia +Mangara tricks allows a taxes player to weaken the ability for the opponent to cast spells--but you kind of need all of them.
A turn 2 Knight of the Reliquary, by himself, can sometimes prevent the opponent from casting ANY spells and then already be the finisher afterwards.
Thalia/Revoker +mana denial allows taxes to stifle combo decks.
Turn 2 zenith for Teeg turns off most combo decks.
etc...
In the end they get similar results, the main difference being their methodology and adaptability. Thalia/Revoker/Port will stop almost all combo decks once you get to turn 3. Teeg can't stop a lot of reanimation based combo, and can't stop combo from "digging" for answers. Teeg is just a trump card that, once he's killed, allows the opponent to go back to normal.
This means that most taxes decks wants the games to go long, since (over time) their redundant (but additive) disruption creates a prison state.
Maverick decks tends to get a trump in play and kills the opponent while that trump card neuters them (even if it only neuters them for 3-6 turns)
The main advantage Maverick has over Taxes is that when the games get to the point where both sides have creatures, Maverick tends to always have the better creatures. Usually bigger, have more tricks, and have better combat synergies than almost any other creature deck save reanimator (and even that is not always true). The more combo/spell heavy the meta is--the better taxes is. The more dude/fair/delver heavy the meta is--then Maverick is better.
But always think about it this way. Taxes and Delver leans very heavily on the same tools. Stoneforge/Equipment/MoM/Thalia/Wasteland +Hatebears and Utility lands. Taxes might run 3-4 Revokers while Maverick runs 3-4 one of green creatures, and taxes might run 4 port while maverick runs 4-5 one of utility lands--but that isn't really that different in the grand scheme of things.
Modern: Twin URW Wilted Abzan WBG
Legacy: Stax WWW Maverick WBG
Cockatrice ID: Voltigasm
To be honest I haven't really thought of Burn as being too sticky of a match-up to put in a lot of hate. Thalia already makes things annoying, plus you can gain life from a Batterskull/Jitte to slow them down further. I don't think I have any Burn hate in my sideboard. If you are having a tough match-up, and/or you have a Burn heavy meta, the white Leyline is as good as any. Maybe a COP:Red, or a Kor Firewalker, or a Burrenton Forge-Tender?
Burn only has two outs versus you. The nuts, or Sulfuric Vortex to prevent lifegain.
I've started running Courser of Kruphix in my maverick deck as well. Very efficient creature that never feels bad in pretty much any and all matchups. He's been my main staple vs Burn but that's a side effect not a plan. Pridemage is still the best out vs burn.
Modern: Twin URW Wilted Abzan WBG
Legacy: Stax WWW Maverick WBG
Cockatrice ID: Voltigasm
Apart from turn 2 show and tell(and not even that at times) sneak and show is pretty easy to beat even game one because we're running 4 Knight, 4 Thalia, 4 Wasteland, 3 Pridemage, 1 Teeg, 1 Karakas all of which are great.
Omnishow is harder since Knight/Karakas stops being an out, but even then you're running as many good cards against it as people who run FoW + Dazes. Thing do get easier after game one but I wouldn't describe it as luck dependent as you present.
This is really simple.
You have hatebears you want in play (Teeg, Thalia, Knight, Priest, etc...)
And you have hatebears you want in hand in case they cast Show and Tell (Pridemage, Reclamation Sage, Revoker, Oblivion Ring, etc...)
There are spells you want to cast as soon as possible (GSZ, Moms, etc...)
There are spells you want to cast turns 2-3 after they've sculpted their hand (Duress, Thoughtseize, Wasteland)
There are spells you want to cast after they've started going off (Plow, K-Grips, Priests, etc...)
Strategically speaking, the best you can do is play to what your cards push you towards, and use what you know to play to your outs.
If you have a pridemage in hand, don't tap out so you can hit their Omniscience. If you have an ORing in hand, then cast the pridemage and make them feel like its safe to search for play show and tell after they pithing needle your pridemage. If they play red mana, then zenith for Teeg ASAP so you can prevent them from hard casting Sneak Attack while using Thalia/Wasteland to slow down their Show and Tell. If they don't have red mana, don't even both holding on to Knights and cast them early to start turning them sideways. etc...
Game two and three you'll be better vs them. But game one you just look at what you have and let your deck play for you.