DRS is most powerful to push out 3 mana turn 2, if you don't have a fetch and the opponent doesn't burn their fetch turn 1 then you're basically stuck.
I don't count Wasteland because you don't/can't always burn it, when opponent leads with a basic or a fetch, or when Wasteland is your second and only land remaining.
In Rock I generally had good experiences with 10 fetches. In this deck I am running 3 DRS and 2 Noble for now.
As Warden pointed out, the mana base is tight as is. I can see going up to 9 fetches, but cutting what? Is basic plains necessary?
And Herzog ran only 1 bayou, but only had 4 thoughtseize, 1 ZP in the sideboard.
While practicing, I haven't had DRS unable to produce mana t2, but I can foresee it happening.
I played a list that tested a lot of ideas and sub-ideas this past weekend. Was a horrible 1-4-0 in 5 rounds. I playtested on the side and talked with nearly everyone about GPNJ.
Key findings:
Maverick can contend, but a lot rides on the luck of 1) your pairings and 2) your ability to pull decent opening hands. I had neither going for me Saturday. Opened the event mulling to 4 (no lands on 7, 6, or 5) --- and stalling on 1 land thereafter. Bottomline, these kind of "you've got to be kidding me" horror situations will derail any of us playing at an event. I will fine-tune my list to be more "basic" and aligned with what maverick wants. I stupidly tried 3x Thalia and never saw her outside of a last-few-turns scenario against UWR control.
Eternal Witness is really needed. I lost games to everybody because I couldn't create card advantage beyond Sylvan Library. I had moments where GSZ on 3 for Witness would have gave me back the game and/or protected positive board-state. She may be the bullet I've been looking for. She can also fit into the QPM/Scooze "flex slots"
If expecting UR Delver, 2:2 with QPM/Scooze. Expecting more Miracles, go 3:1 in favor of QPM.
I ran this SB
2 Armageddon -- was ok
3 Thoughtseize -- never used it, but did bring it in against elves
1 Decay -- was alright. This should be a PTE
2 ZP -- crushing. I think I need a 3rd again
2 Toxic Deluge -- crushing
2 Krosan Grip -- never saw them against miracles
1 Gaddock Teeg -- Papa never lets me down. Totally the right call given the meta.
2 Containment Priest -- Irrelevant with what I faced. Never relevant/saw it in time against Elves
I could only pick up 2x Containment Priests (was told I could grab a playset but then the store had only 2 remaining). These did nothing against matchups I faced: Elves (was irrelevant whole match), Jund Combo Loam, Miracles, UWR Control (very similar to Miracles), UR Delver. I will need to hear about other players' experiences with the card. If I face the mirror, DnT, Reanimator, Sneak/Show they will be great.
I played 1x Abrupt Decay in the Main. Although it was relevant all day, it felt like a waste of space. QPM #3 in the main would have done more. I also ran 4 equipment (again, trying out things)...Sword of Fire/Ice and Light/Shadow were the most relevant. Color protection trumps all, even Batterskull.
2x Slyvan makes a huge difference. Having the ability to pay life for more cards = seals games. Fixing your draw is also very important.
Moving forward, I am very nervous about Miracles. I had awful draws, some misplays (see: rust), and lots of irrelevancy. I think some form of card advantage and/or recursion is necessary to have any chance. UW players were both running Karanos (UR god) as a finisher. I have no way to deal with this thing. This is making me want to run Oblivion Ring as some kind of answer instead of Containment Priest. O-Ring is less valuable but still strong against Sneak-Show and Renaimator....but can bail me out of "holy crap there's a permanent I can't deal with" situations. Elves also "just crushes me randomly" if I cannot stop them in time. The elves matchup is frustrating.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Eternal Witness seems like a great fit. That Scooze slot has felt very lackluster, against Delver and Burn there aren't enough creatures to eat to gain any life of consequence and I believe it is too slow against anything else for gravehate to matter. It does well in a midrange meta where it can land late to eat the yards, but the masturbatory Cruise meta has sped everything up way too much.
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Also, consider that Liliana counts as occasional mana denial, and it starts to become a significant portion of our strategy.
SIDEBOARD
3x Duress
2x Containment Priest
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Armageddon
1x Chains of Mephistopheles
1x Choke
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
A couple of notes before my report - The 3 mainboard aburpt decays were clutch. In play testing and in the tournament, the meta is so fast that creature removal is so important. Also, being uncounterable makes it so much better. Maze of Ith has also been a key card in my land base. At times, not being able to draw removal can be a problem for flyers (aka flipped Delver) and being able to grab it with Knight of the Reliquary has saved me numerous games. It also has combat tricks that allow you to really put a beating on them. Losing life to thoughtseize is really bad right now. So I opted for Duress and it has been doing really well for me. I'm not too scared of discarding creatures now because of containment priest. I also want a discard to board into burn and duress seems better than Inquisition of Kozilek. I really want to find room for a 2nd Library in my sideboard for the grindy matchups. I'm considering taking out Enlightened Tutor for it. 2 Library in the main doesn't seem right to combat against the speed of the format so I want 1 main and 1 side. I took Bobs out because once again the format is too quick right now and losing life just isn't good. I haven't been able to use Armageddon yet against miracles and I eager to see how it interacts. I'm not going to take it out though because it destroys Lands and 12-Post also which are difficult decks to stay ahead of.
Round 1: 2-1 Miracles
Game 1 the 3 mainboard abrupt decays won me the match. I was able to destroy his top when he went to put top on top to counter a deathrite. I also was able to stay on top of his counterbalances. Game 2 he got too far head when he locked me out and stared fate sealing with Jace. He had about 4 more turns until he won, but I scooped because time is of the essence against that deck. Game 3 I hard locked him with choke and Thalia.
Round 2: 2-0 Storm
Played Randolph who recently topped 4 at SCG Oakland. Game 1 I got super lucky. Mulligan down to 6 on the draw. He turn 1 probes saw: Deathrite, Knight, Swords to plowshare and some lands and passes turn. I draw Sofi play deathrite and pass. He then probes me again and saw SOFI and cabal therapy out my knight. Then I drew gaddock teeg and he auto scooped. Had I not mulliganed down to 6 and had that hand He would have seen the teeg and cabal therapy it out instead. Super lucky. Game 2 I was able to turn 1 mom, turn 2 thalia, turn 3 gaddock teeg. He tried going off, but was short mana (due to thalia) after his tutor, he grabbed karakas and bounce gaddock teeg and passed turn. I waste landed him and played teeg and he scooped.
Round 3: Bug Delver 2-0
Once again, the mainboard abrupt decays won me game one. Just removed any threat he played with 2 decays and 2 swords. At one point he played a decent sized goyf, but I was able to drop a bigger knight and swing with it then Maze of Ith after combat damage to activate at his end step to increase Knight's size. One I green sun for a 2nd Knight it was over. Game 2 Maze was really clutch. I didn't draw too much of my removal, but I drop a maze turn 2 to keep his flipped delver from getting in there and kept spot removing his deathrite. Which kept him down on mana. I then turn 3 played Library and from there was able to sculpt my hand to victory.
Round 4: Elves 0-0-3 (Intentional Draw)
Was super lucky to dodge and we both ID to assure top 8. I'm a little bummed because I wanted to test containment priest. But obviously I need to assure top 8.
Round 5: Death and Taxes (Intentional Draw)
Top 8 Quarter Finals: Punishing Jund 2-1
I'm 2nd overall seed and was on the play. Game one he was able to get ahead with Lily and Bobs. Game 2 I play mother of runes turn one which is killer for jund because they don't have a 1 drop kill spell (maybe after board, but very few) spot removed his deathrite kept wastelanding his grove of the burnwillows and ate his punishing fires out of his graveyard with my deathrite. After resolving a thalia and him being on 3 lands with no deathrite, he was unable to do much on his turns and I grinded out the victory. Game 3 was much grindry. I was at a sate where he had a 6/7 goyf and Liliana at 4. I had 4 card in my hands (Green Sun, Scooze, Karakas and Verdant Catacomb). I play the verdant and scooze to bait his Liliana sac. Which he did and from there I ate another lily in his graveyard and the engineered plague in his graveyard (both were discarded to Lily to grow goyf). That dropped his goyf to a 4/5 (instant, land, sorcery and creature). I then played karakas and green sun for a sigarada. From there he was at 20 health and I was at 9, but was able to kill him because he couldn't swing into sigarda because of goyf's size and hexproof. I could also ignore Lily because I was already in top deck mode and both her -2 and -6 don't do anything to me. So I would then swing with Sigarda, karakas her to my hand and recast her. After two turns of doing that he finally drew the wasteland he needed to kill Karakas. However, he stop upticking Lily and I had a Sofi in my hand that I was able to cast and equip which did a total of 10 damage. Thus winning the race.
Remaining Top 8: We split at top 4 because most of us had work in the morning. The rest allowed me to be the victor because I am literally 16 planeswalker points from getting a bye for Jersey.
I'm pretty set on this list for Jersey. Like i said I may cut Enlightened tutor for a second Library. But I really like essentially having "2" of all my enchantments for their relevant matches. I also have learned in my testing that Gaddock Teeg, although good against treasure cruise, is much like RIP were it isn't right to have them in against the treasure cruise decks. I find that have 7 mainboard removal (with 2 deluge on the side) is enough to keep their threats off the table and just having larger creatures is just too much for them. They don't have enough burn to kill us with that alone. Jitte is an allstar and having 1 of each basic is important for postboard games because they board in blood moon.
Do you like the Toxic Deluge or would Zealous be more appropriate? I'm a big fan of Deluge in general but this deck's creatures are way too wimpy to stand up to one...and in that case I'd lean towards Golgari Charm to have the additional enchantment hate.
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Also, consider that Liliana counts as occasional mana denial, and it starts to become a significant portion of our strategy.
Thanks for the reports. The main themes seem to be...
Sylvan Library is over performing - many fair matchups can come down to card advantage
Containment Priest hasn't been very relevant, yet
Gaddock Teeg is still our silver bullet against otherwise tough matchups
-1/-1 effects are over performing (Zealous Persecution, Toxic Deluge)
With the rise of the new delve draw spells, Maverick may be in an okay space. UR Delver has difficulty with "big" creatures - Knight, Ooze and Batterskull being the most notable. UWr control decks have a tough time with Gaddock Teeg. I know that Armageddon is the weapon of choice in this forum, but I'll bring Choke back up in its many applications. I even bring it in against Delver decks, but to each his/her own.
@Warden - is the Sneak & Show matchup the only merit for running Oring over Council's Judgment? CJ seems quite a bit more flexible for the same CMC. Eternal Witness seems okay, but I would personally just opt for another Stoneforge Mystic, Thalia, Pridemage, or whatever card you aren't maxed out on.
@Claymore - I have similar thoughts & experiences with black mana in this deck with only 2-3 lands and DRS to produce it (with 7-9 fetches in most lists). I personally only play one black spell, Zealous Persecution, for this very reason. If I was to go heavier toward a more balanced Junk list, as DudeItsCorey is headed, I would similarly add a basic swamp to the Bayous and Scrublands. I've just lost too many games to the card Wasteland.
Toxic Deluge is better because it reaches farther (hitting Goyf's, Flipped Delver, Deathrite, Nettle Sentinel, Progenitus, equipped True-Name, etc.) For most creatures your Knight and Ooze should/can be much larger and it wrecks their board clearing the way. I get that Thalia and Mom can be killed by it too, but usually you cast it when you're already behind. Also, a way to make sure that you utilize it to its greatest potential is to not over extend in those matchups that you board it in. However, It all depends and is really situational on what you should do.
Deluge is the best sweeper right now for us. It DOES create collateral damage for for something like UR Delver, you X = 2 and their entire board dies. Same for Elves. DnT and the mirror need x = 2+, depending upon what's on the board.
@GreenSun4Zero:
Council's has a tough WWx cost. It's not impossible, but is certainly harder to hit in 3 color Mav lists. I also think Witness's recursion > more guys. There are times like Miracles I want another [thing] on the table/in hand. Sometimes that item is equipment. Other times I want to have a body + grab a creature so STP/Jace won't be enough. For other matchups, I would benefit from recycling old removal a la swords/plow/zp/deluge. Witness grabbing anything is a really big deal.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I play pure GW and run 2 Council's Judgment in the board--and I have a hard time with the WW. If you're 3 colors you're going to end up always being "one turn too late" at drawing the 2nd white source.
I swear by the card and its even allowed me to cut down to only 2 Qasali Pridemage and no other disenchant effect in the 75; but the WW is a real cost and sometimes even more difficult if your Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is still in play. The closer you are to Junk the less I recommend Council's Judgment and I'd almost suggest running Vindicate instead (if you're afraid of them destroying/bouncing the Oblivion Ring)
...
Eternal Witness is really needed. I lost games to everybody because I couldn't create card advantage beyond Sylvan Library. I had moments where GSZ on 3 for Witness would have gave me back the game and/or protected positive board-state. She may be the bullet I've been looking for. She can also fit into the QPM/Scooze "flex slots"
...
I played 1x Eternal Witness in the maindeck of a pure GW list at a small tournament a few months ago, pre KTK (I think I ended up 3-3-1?). It was never bad, but a little underwhelming if you couldn't cast what you regrowthed in the same turn.
___
I'd like to hear some input on how us less fortunate ones without byes are preparing to fight Burn at the GP. Is E-tutor for stuff like Circle of Protection: Red or Warmth worth it? Are Batterskull/Sword of Light and Shadow actually real cards against them? Could Kor Firewalker be a consideration?
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Burn is a nightmare. I have 2 Firewalker in my board but it doesn't seem to be enough. I've had some success at playing Knight then Armageddon to race any top decked burn.
Extra removal past 4 swords is required for dealing with the Eidolon.
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Also, consider that Liliana counts as occasional mana denial, and it starts to become a significant portion of our strategy.
For Burn I board in Circle of Protection: Red (which they cannot beat unless they splash white for wear//tear), E. Tutor, 3x Duress, 2x Ethersworn Canonist. You're greatest weapons game 1 is Mother of Runes, Thalia and Jitte. Game 2 gets much easier to deal, if you can steal game 1 you should be in a great spot. Don't be afraid to Swords to Plowshare your own guys as well. Any life gain can offset their explosiveness and buy you enough time to win a game. Also, always always always fetch basics first. Every game one you should be doing that anyways if you're playing blind. But even more so when you know that you're playing against burn. Don't play any non-basic lands unless you really have too and always hold back a wasteland to wasteland your own lands in response to price of progress. I usually always fetch basics first, then play wasteland before I play a nonbasic (if I can help it). That way I can activate wasteland targeting itself if they try and play price. From there I usually don't ever tap a wasteland for mana, unless its to activate COP: Red.
Burn is a nightmare. I have 2 Firewalker in my board but it doesn't seem to be enough. I've had some success at playing Knight then Armageddon to race any top decked burn.
Extra removal past 4 swords is required for dealing with the Eidolon.
I've never had problems with Eidolon and I'm running 4 swords to plowshares and 2 pridemage main. I find a lot of the game comes down to if they resolve Sulfuric Vortex or not. Should we maybe run 1-2 erase in the board to have a cheap way of killing Vortex/Eidolon?
s3raphix:
Honestly, I am debating the need for Leyline of Sanctity. I feel that card may help me push past droves of burn and combo. The card hoses burn, as they have no clock outside of creatures to kill you (plus at some point you stabilize as they can't nuke all your men AND lethal you fast enough). The downside is that Leyline cuts into my thoughtseize/IoK/duress/Teeg/Canonist slots + don't disrupt Sneak/Show, Reanimator, Enchantress, Painter, etc that need [insert card]. That's where a dedicated discard trumps. If I really feared combo I suppose I could go with both leyline and discard, but it would be sacrificing my odds against swarm (Zp, Deluge, spot removal, priest) and control (armageddon, O-ring) due to less SB space. I really hate COP Red as I feel it's a waste of space.
@Claymore: What have you tested Kor against? Burn or UR Delver? 2x is not enough? That sucks. If you go 3x, you might as well go Leylines for true protection or discard to be proactive.
@Burn: The killer lists run all the bolts, flame rift, price and blast. I usually die Turn 4 unless something ridiculous saves me (Thalia that sticks, Jitte, swords my own big KotR, Scooze + mana to gain life). If vortex hits and I'm down on life, my odds diminish significantly.
Herzog is on the record for the first time at TheSource. He's saying Courser of Kruphix is the key card to pickup right now. Some of my friends have actually informed me about this for the past 2 weeks and I didn't believe them. Courser is aggressively costed and provides CA if you can live the dream with Sylvan Library and/or getting topdeck lands.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Anyone reading this post should stop and go to TheSource and read Herzog's post. He gives great summary of card choices against Maverick's overall strategy. He's the defacto best Maverick player right now.
I don't know about best Maverick player around. He has top 8 3 times this year I can give him that. However, he is playing in a Detroit Meta. Had he top 8 3 events in Jersey, Virginia or California Meta I would be more inclined to say he is the end all when building Maverick decks. Jacob Kory has had a pretty solid reputation with the deck in past years. He unfortunately has moved on to other decks, but still picks it up from time to time. The thing about Maverick is that its a Tool Box deck and doesn't have any specific "stock list". It usual is tailored every few months to battle the meta as it evolves.
At any rate, obviously his list works great for him and he has some very solid points, but I have some things I disagree with for the current Meta. Courser to me seems wrong. I don't know if I ever would want that in my hand or to green sun Zenith for it. A big booty is great in a world full of bolts, but at 3 mana I would want something a little more game changing. It doesn't stop delver. The 1 life gain per turn isn't relevant enough. I like that it works well with Library, but that's a two card condition. Filtering the lands on top is probably the best aspect of it, but isn't that what library with fetchs/knight of the reliquary is for? To each his own and I wish him the best of luck.
Also his sideboard seems a little weak to Miracles. Which is arguably our one of two worst matches of the top tier decks (elves being the other). I think Toxic deluge is better for both match ups because they can kill angels and progenitus. Also, Chains of Mephistopheles stops jace/brainstorm from being abused and glimpse from netting card advantage.
@s3raphix - I would be more worried about Enchantress and Charbelcher in the opening rounds than burn. We unfortunately have the toughest time against those fringe decks.
Imagine you can play a Sensei's Divining Top
That you pay 4 mana for
That only looks at the top card of your library.
Courser of Kruphix.
Herzog will change his mind in like.. two months. He's human and makes mistakes too.
Yes, I have played the card before.
No, you don't get reliable card advantage/quality from it.
There was a thread here. Unfortunately I'm one of the main posters, but it details why my opinion of the card is so low.
s3raphix:
Honestly, I am debating the need for Leyline of Sanctity. I feel that card may help me push past droves of burn and combo. The card hoses burn, as they have no clock outside of creatures to kill you (plus at some point you stabilize as they can't nuke all your men AND lethal you fast enough). The downside is that Leyline cuts into my thoughtseize/IoK/duress/Teeg/Canonist slots + don't disrupt Sneak/Show, Reanimator, Enchantress, Painter, etc that need [insert card]. That's where a dedicated discard trumps. If I really feared combo I suppose I could go with both leyline and discard, but it would be sacrificing my odds against swarm (Zp, Deluge, spot removal, priest) and control (armageddon, O-ring) due to less SB space. I really hate COP Red as I feel it's a waste of space.
Does't Leyline of Sanctity shut off Grindstone and Helm of Obedience kills? those abilities target a player. Still is no help against Sneak, Reanimator, and Elves, which are more numerous and quite troublesome though. Totally agree on Cop feeling like a waste of space but that's where I'm currently at right now. I've lost games against burn with Junk even after having Deathrite + Thalia + active Jitte so I feel like a real hoser card is needed for them.
Firewalker seems good and is probably also fine against UR Delver, but the advantage of Cop and the like is that you can tutor for them whereas you just have to hope to draw the Firewalker.
@s3raphix - I would be more worried about Enchantress and Charbelcher in the opening rounds than burn. We unfortunately have the toughest time against those fringe decks.
Is Belcher really worrisome? I ran into it once at an Open and rolled face. I think I had 10+ sideboard cards with textboxes against him. Not super familiar with the matchup though.
@s3raphix: Derp. Shows you how ready for Legacy I am right now lol. Idk why I was thinking Helm and Grindstone read something like "your opponent" rather than "target player". Hmm...I'll let the inner debate rage on with Leyline.
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Thanks! Good stuff to know
And Herzog ran only 1 bayou, but only had 4 thoughtseize, 1 ZP in the sideboard.
While practicing, I haven't had DRS unable to produce mana t2, but I can foresee it happening.
Key findings:
Maverick can contend, but a lot rides on the luck of 1) your pairings and 2) your ability to pull decent opening hands. I had neither going for me Saturday. Opened the event mulling to 4 (no lands on 7, 6, or 5) --- and stalling on 1 land thereafter. Bottomline, these kind of "you've got to be kidding me" horror situations will derail any of us playing at an event. I will fine-tune my list to be more "basic" and aligned with what maverick wants. I stupidly tried 3x Thalia and never saw her outside of a last-few-turns scenario against UWR control.
Eternal Witness is really needed. I lost games to everybody because I couldn't create card advantage beyond Sylvan Library. I had moments where GSZ on 3 for Witness would have gave me back the game and/or protected positive board-state. She may be the bullet I've been looking for. She can also fit into the QPM/Scooze "flex slots"
If expecting UR Delver, 2:2 with QPM/Scooze. Expecting more Miracles, go 3:1 in favor of QPM.
I ran this SB
2 Armageddon -- was ok
3 Thoughtseize -- never used it, but did bring it in against elves
1 Decay -- was alright. This should be a PTE
2 ZP -- crushing. I think I need a 3rd again
2 Toxic Deluge -- crushing
2 Krosan Grip -- never saw them against miracles
1 Gaddock Teeg -- Papa never lets me down. Totally the right call given the meta.
2 Containment Priest -- Irrelevant with what I faced. Never relevant/saw it in time against Elves
I could only pick up 2x Containment Priests (was told I could grab a playset but then the store had only 2 remaining). These did nothing against matchups I faced: Elves (was irrelevant whole match), Jund Combo Loam, Miracles, UWR Control (very similar to Miracles), UR Delver. I will need to hear about other players' experiences with the card. If I face the mirror, DnT, Reanimator, Sneak/Show they will be great.
I played 1x Abrupt Decay in the Main. Although it was relevant all day, it felt like a waste of space. QPM #3 in the main would have done more. I also ran 4 equipment (again, trying out things)...Sword of Fire/Ice and Light/Shadow were the most relevant. Color protection trumps all, even Batterskull.
2x Slyvan makes a huge difference. Having the ability to pay life for more cards = seals games. Fixing your draw is also very important.
Moving forward, I am very nervous about Miracles. I had awful draws, some misplays (see: rust), and lots of irrelevancy. I think some form of card advantage and/or recursion is necessary to have any chance. UW players were both running Karanos (UR god) as a finisher. I have no way to deal with this thing. This is making me want to run Oblivion Ring as some kind of answer instead of Containment Priest. O-Ring is less valuable but still strong against Sneak-Show and Renaimator....but can bail me out of "holy crap there's a permanent I can't deal with" situations. Elves also "just crushes me randomly" if I cannot stop them in time. The elves matchup is frustrating.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
-MTG Salvation.
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Mother of Runes
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshare
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Sylvan Library
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Wasteland
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
2x Bayou
2x Marsh Flats
2x Savannah
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
1x Maze of Ith
1x Karakas
1x Plains
1x Scubland
1x Swamp
SIDEBOARD
3x Duress
2x Containment Priest
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Armageddon
1x Chains of Mephistopheles
1x Choke
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
A couple of notes before my report - The 3 mainboard aburpt decays were clutch. In play testing and in the tournament, the meta is so fast that creature removal is so important. Also, being uncounterable makes it so much better. Maze of Ith has also been a key card in my land base. At times, not being able to draw removal can be a problem for flyers (aka flipped Delver) and being able to grab it with Knight of the Reliquary has saved me numerous games. It also has combat tricks that allow you to really put a beating on them. Losing life to thoughtseize is really bad right now. So I opted for Duress and it has been doing really well for me. I'm not too scared of discarding creatures now because of containment priest. I also want a discard to board into burn and duress seems better than Inquisition of Kozilek. I really want to find room for a 2nd Library in my sideboard for the grindy matchups. I'm considering taking out Enlightened Tutor for it. 2 Library in the main doesn't seem right to combat against the speed of the format so I want 1 main and 1 side. I took Bobs out because once again the format is too quick right now and losing life just isn't good. I haven't been able to use Armageddon yet against miracles and I eager to see how it interacts. I'm not going to take it out though because it destroys Lands and 12-Post also which are difficult decks to stay ahead of.
Round 1: 2-1 Miracles
Game 1 the 3 mainboard abrupt decays won me the match. I was able to destroy his top when he went to put top on top to counter a deathrite. I also was able to stay on top of his counterbalances. Game 2 he got too far head when he locked me out and stared fate sealing with Jace. He had about 4 more turns until he won, but I scooped because time is of the essence against that deck. Game 3 I hard locked him with choke and Thalia.
Round 2: 2-0 Storm
Played Randolph who recently topped 4 at SCG Oakland. Game 1 I got super lucky. Mulligan down to 6 on the draw. He turn 1 probes saw: Deathrite, Knight, Swords to plowshare and some lands and passes turn. I draw Sofi play deathrite and pass. He then probes me again and saw SOFI and cabal therapy out my knight. Then I drew gaddock teeg and he auto scooped. Had I not mulliganed down to 6 and had that hand He would have seen the teeg and cabal therapy it out instead. Super lucky. Game 2 I was able to turn 1 mom, turn 2 thalia, turn 3 gaddock teeg. He tried going off, but was short mana (due to thalia) after his tutor, he grabbed karakas and bounce gaddock teeg and passed turn. I waste landed him and played teeg and he scooped.
Round 3: Bug Delver 2-0
Once again, the mainboard abrupt decays won me game one. Just removed any threat he played with 2 decays and 2 swords. At one point he played a decent sized goyf, but I was able to drop a bigger knight and swing with it then Maze of Ith after combat damage to activate at his end step to increase Knight's size. One I green sun for a 2nd Knight it was over. Game 2 Maze was really clutch. I didn't draw too much of my removal, but I drop a maze turn 2 to keep his flipped delver from getting in there and kept spot removing his deathrite. Which kept him down on mana. I then turn 3 played Library and from there was able to sculpt my hand to victory.
Round 4: Elves 0-0-3 (Intentional Draw)
Was super lucky to dodge and we both ID to assure top 8. I'm a little bummed because I wanted to test containment priest. But obviously I need to assure top 8.
Round 5: Death and Taxes (Intentional Draw)
Top 8 Quarter Finals: Punishing Jund 2-1
I'm 2nd overall seed and was on the play. Game one he was able to get ahead with Lily and Bobs. Game 2 I play mother of runes turn one which is killer for jund because they don't have a 1 drop kill spell (maybe after board, but very few) spot removed his deathrite kept wastelanding his grove of the burnwillows and ate his punishing fires out of his graveyard with my deathrite. After resolving a thalia and him being on 3 lands with no deathrite, he was unable to do much on his turns and I grinded out the victory. Game 3 was much grindry. I was at a sate where he had a 6/7 goyf and Liliana at 4. I had 4 card in my hands (Green Sun, Scooze, Karakas and Verdant Catacomb). I play the verdant and scooze to bait his Liliana sac. Which he did and from there I ate another lily in his graveyard and the engineered plague in his graveyard (both were discarded to Lily to grow goyf). That dropped his goyf to a 4/5 (instant, land, sorcery and creature). I then played karakas and green sun for a sigarada. From there he was at 20 health and I was at 9, but was able to kill him because he couldn't swing into sigarda because of goyf's size and hexproof. I could also ignore Lily because I was already in top deck mode and both her -2 and -6 don't do anything to me. So I would then swing with Sigarda, karakas her to my hand and recast her. After two turns of doing that he finally drew the wasteland he needed to kill Karakas. However, he stop upticking Lily and I had a Sofi in my hand that I was able to cast and equip which did a total of 10 damage. Thus winning the race.
Remaining Top 8: We split at top 4 because most of us had work in the morning. The rest allowed me to be the victor because I am literally 16 planeswalker points from getting a bye for Jersey.
I'm pretty set on this list for Jersey. Like i said I may cut Enlightened tutor for a second Library. But I really like essentially having "2" of all my enchantments for their relevant matches. I also have learned in my testing that Gaddock Teeg, although good against treasure cruise, is much like RIP were it isn't right to have them in against the treasure cruise decks. I find that have 7 mainboard removal (with 2 deluge on the side) is enough to keep their threats off the table and just having larger creatures is just too much for them. They don't have enough burn to kill us with that alone. Jitte is an allstar and having 1 of each basic is important for postboard games because they board in blood moon.
Good Luck to anyone playing in Jersey!
-MTG Salvation.
With the rise of the new delve draw spells, Maverick may be in an okay space. UR Delver has difficulty with "big" creatures - Knight, Ooze and Batterskull being the most notable. UWr control decks have a tough time with Gaddock Teeg. I know that Armageddon is the weapon of choice in this forum, but I'll bring Choke back up in its many applications. I even bring it in against Delver decks, but to each his/her own.
@Warden - is the Sneak & Show matchup the only merit for running Oring over Council's Judgment? CJ seems quite a bit more flexible for the same CMC. Eternal Witness seems okay, but I would personally just opt for another Stoneforge Mystic, Thalia, Pridemage, or whatever card you aren't maxed out on.
@Claymore - I have similar thoughts & experiences with black mana in this deck with only 2-3 lands and DRS to produce it (with 7-9 fetches in most lists). I personally only play one black spell, Zealous Persecution, for this very reason. If I was to go heavier toward a more balanced Junk list, as DudeItsCorey is headed, I would similarly add a basic swamp to the Bayous and Scrublands. I've just lost too many games to the card Wasteland.
@GreenSun4Zero:
Council's has a tough WWx cost. It's not impossible, but is certainly harder to hit in 3 color Mav lists. I also think Witness's recursion > more guys. There are times like Miracles I want another [thing] on the table/in hand. Sometimes that item is equipment. Other times I want to have a body + grab a creature so STP/Jace won't be enough. For other matchups, I would benefit from recycling old removal a la swords/plow/zp/deluge. Witness grabbing anything is a really big deal.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
On Council's Judgment
I play pure GW and run 2 Council's Judgment in the board--and I have a hard time with the WW. If you're 3 colors you're going to end up always being "one turn too late" at drawing the 2nd white source.
I swear by the card and its even allowed me to cut down to only 2 Qasali Pridemage and no other disenchant effect in the 75; but the WW is a real cost and sometimes even more difficult if your Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is still in play. The closer you are to Junk the less I recommend Council's Judgment and I'd almost suggest running Vindicate instead (if you're afraid of them destroying/bouncing the Oblivion Ring)
I played 1x Eternal Witness in the maindeck of a pure GW list at a small tournament a few months ago, pre KTK (I think I ended up 3-3-1?). It was never bad, but a little underwhelming if you couldn't cast what you regrowthed in the same turn.
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I'd like to hear some input on how us less fortunate ones without byes are preparing to fight Burn at the GP. Is E-tutor for stuff like Circle of Protection: Red or Warmth worth it? Are Batterskull/Sword of Light and Shadow actually real cards against them? Could Kor Firewalker be a consideration?
Extra removal past 4 swords is required for dealing with the Eidolon.
-MTG Salvation.
I've never had problems with Eidolon and I'm running 4 swords to plowshares and 2 pridemage main. I find a lot of the game comes down to if they resolve Sulfuric Vortex or not. Should we maybe run 1-2 erase in the board to have a cheap way of killing Vortex/Eidolon?
Honestly, I am debating the need for Leyline of Sanctity. I feel that card may help me push past droves of burn and combo. The card hoses burn, as they have no clock outside of creatures to kill you (plus at some point you stabilize as they can't nuke all your men AND lethal you fast enough). The downside is that Leyline cuts into my thoughtseize/IoK/duress/Teeg/Canonist slots + don't disrupt Sneak/Show, Reanimator, Enchantress, Painter, etc that need [insert card]. That's where a dedicated discard trumps. If I really feared combo I suppose I could go with both leyline and discard, but it would be sacrificing my odds against swarm (Zp, Deluge, spot removal, priest) and control (armageddon, O-ring) due to less SB space. I really hate COP Red as I feel it's a waste of space.
@Claymore: What have you tested Kor against? Burn or UR Delver? 2x is not enough? That sucks. If you go 3x, you might as well go Leylines for true protection or discard to be proactive.
@Burn: The killer lists run all the bolts, flame rift, price and blast. I usually die Turn 4 unless something ridiculous saves me (Thalia that sticks, Jitte, swords my own big KotR, Scooze + mana to gain life). If vortex hits and I'm down on life, my odds diminish significantly.
Herzog is on the record for the first time at TheSource. He's saying Courser of Kruphix is the key card to pickup right now. Some of my friends have actually informed me about this for the past 2 weeks and I didn't believe them. Courser is aggressively costed and provides CA if you can live the dream with Sylvan Library and/or getting topdeck lands.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
At any rate, obviously his list works great for him and he has some very solid points, but I have some things I disagree with for the current Meta. Courser to me seems wrong. I don't know if I ever would want that in my hand or to green sun Zenith for it. A big booty is great in a world full of bolts, but at 3 mana I would want something a little more game changing. It doesn't stop delver. The 1 life gain per turn isn't relevant enough. I like that it works well with Library, but that's a two card condition. Filtering the lands on top is probably the best aspect of it, but isn't that what library with fetchs/knight of the reliquary is for? To each his own and I wish him the best of luck.
Also his sideboard seems a little weak to Miracles. Which is arguably our one of two worst matches of the top tier decks (elves being the other). I think Toxic deluge is better for both match ups because they can kill angels and progenitus. Also, Chains of Mephistopheles stops jace/brainstorm from being abused and glimpse from netting card advantage.
@s3raphix - I would be more worried about Enchantress and Charbelcher in the opening rounds than burn. We unfortunately have the toughest time against those fringe decks.
That you pay 4 mana for
That only looks at the top card of your library.
Courser of Kruphix.
Herzog will change his mind in like.. two months. He's human and makes mistakes too.
Yes, I have played the card before.
No, you don't get reliable card advantage/quality from it.
There was a thread here. Unfortunately I'm one of the main posters, but it details why my opinion of the card is so low.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
Does't Leyline of Sanctity shut off Grindstone and Helm of Obedience kills? those abilities target a player. Still is no help against Sneak, Reanimator, and Elves, which are more numerous and quite troublesome though. Totally agree on Cop feeling like a waste of space but that's where I'm currently at right now. I've lost games against burn with Junk even after having Deathrite + Thalia + active Jitte so I feel like a real hoser card is needed for them.
Firewalker seems good and is probably also fine against UR Delver, but the advantage of Cop and the like is that you can tutor for them whereas you just have to hope to draw the Firewalker.
Is Belcher really worrisome? I ran into it once at an Open and rolled face. I think I had 10+ sideboard cards with textboxes against him. Not super familiar with the matchup though.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod