Just got back from SCG St. Louis. I played Jund to a 7-2 finish, 19th place. l2th through 25th~ all had 21 points, so I missed a Top 16 finish on tiebreakers, which I didn't think was too bad considering it was my first major tournament in 9 years. I'll post the list I used below. It's pretty stock. If anyone is curious about individual matchups, I'm happy to elaborate. Here were my rounds:
R1: Reanimator (2-1); I beat a resolved Iona naming black to win Game 3. That was the 2nd best highlight of the day.
R2: U/W/R Delver (2-0)
R3: RUG Delver (2-0)
R4: Lands (2-1)
R5: Sneak and Show (1-2)
R6: Reanimator (1-2); Lost to Mr. Thomas Graves (Iona on black). Considering he just won a Legacy Open with this deck, I don't feel too bad. Really nice guy too.
R7: Bant Stoneblade (2-0)
R8: Tin Fins (2-0); I beat a Turn 2 Emrakul on this one. Highlight #1 of the day.
R9: BUG Delver (2-1)
Changes going forward? I'll probably cut either Scavenging Ooze or the second Maelstrom Pulse for a Chains of Mephistopheles I picked up while I was there. It's also possible I may cut the Golgari Charm instead, as I felt that I had way more True-name hate than necessary. I'll also probably be cutting the 2x Lightning Bolts from the main in favor of the 4th Abrupt Decay and possible a second Sylvan Library, but most likely the 4th Punishing Fire.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
I have experimented a bit more with the 4 Decay, 3 Fire, 2 Bolt split of removal and have found that I lose some consistency with finding the Fire combo but I gain better interaction with a lot of cards (T1 Mom, Delver, Lodestone Golem, Painter). Going forward, I will probably keep this removal combo unless I find a field with Shardless BUG and other creature decks dominating, then I will switch for a 4th Fire.
A question I have is Engineered Plague vs. Golgari Charm. I have multiple friends who swing one way or the other. What are the main benefits of either or?
I have experimented a bit more with the 4 Decay, 3 Fire, 2 Bolt split of removal and have found that I lose some consistency with finding the Fire combo but I gain better interaction with a lot of cards (T1 Mom, Delver, Lodestone Golem, Painter). Going forward, I will probably keep this removal combo unless I find a field with Shardless BUG and other creature decks dominating, then I will switch for a 4th Fire.
A question I have is Engineered Plague vs. Golgari Charm. I have multiple friends who swing one way or the other. What are the main benefits of either or?
I like Engineered Plague for its permanence. There are some games where opponents can rebuild after a golgari charm.
Some matchups even concede to a resolved Engineered Plague, since nothing they can play can even interact with the card.
After a lot of testing with Choke, I feel it isn't the sideboard card I'm looking for. It crushes Delver variants, hurts Stoneblade, and does some work vs. combo decks. The big problem is that by the time Choke hits the field, the combo decks are ready to go off. Replacing the 2 Choke with Chains of Mephistopheles (or 1 Chains and a Hymn) seem like the best options by far. 1 mana less and the ability to neuter multiple combo engines is a big deal.
Also replaced Toxic Deluge with Engineered Plague. I've been cascading into Deluge and have had it in my hand with Liliana out and it can be very underwhelming when I'm ahead. Plague fills the same role but is an action card no matter what. I can just name Merfolk or Kor or Bird or Thopter and it will take care of my problem in the same way.
typically, jund has specific one-offs that in the maindeck, being Sylvan Library (or top/mirri's guile) and Maelstrom pulse.
Maelstrom pulse serves as an out for things abrupt decay and pfire/bolt can't touch. (JTMS, Laylines, etc)
and Sylvan Library is really the only library manipulation accessible for non-blue decks like us.
how was playtesting without these singletons but with a full playset of bolts feel?
typically, jund has specific one-offs that in the maindeck, being Sylvan Library (or top/mirri's guile) and Maelstrom pulse.
Maelstrom pulse serves as an out for things abrupt decay and pfire/bolt can't touch. (JTMS, Laylines, etc)
and Sylvan Library is really the only library manipulation accessible for non-blue decks like us.
how was playtesting without these singletons but with a full playset of bolts feel?
I like having the extra removal early game against stoneforges, mother, etc.
I've had oozes in my main and sideboard for the past week and I've sort of liked it. (in fact, my list is almost the same except for having one less BBE, retaining the fourth Abrupt Decay, and swapping the Lightning bolts for Tragic Slip for testing.)
I've also noticed most lists going down to three hymns as well. Is this because of a less combo-heavy meta?
I'm also guessing the second Sylvan Library in the board is for control match-ups?
Interesting. My initial reaction was I don't like ooze main, since it's not like it helps out our worst match-ups, and if you get it early where it's not good, then you won't be happy about it. But I guess it's not bad to just have another threat that can also deal with graveyards. I play that list with the 3rd bolt over ooze. Considering taking out that bolt for a golgari charm main perhaps, though. I like having the third bolt. But I sided charm in so much today, and it can be pretty nice to be able to do so many things (kill enchantments, kill elves, kill true-name, kill D&T guys, etc.). It may not save you against a bad combo matchup (though I imagine it's not the worst thing to blow up a sneak attack or omniscience, even if sometimes it just buys you a turn (and sometimes does more than that)), but it may be all around more helpful than another bolt. Unsure.
Also just played in SCG LA but did not get 9th. 5-4 put me a round off top 64 (if my breakers would've even put me there at 6-3). Lost to burn, omni show, some beautiful draws by Death & Taxes (not to diminish his own role in his victory; he played well), and a very close MUD matchup. Beat Stoneblade, Miracles, BUG delver, BUG delver, Sneak n' Show.
Considering taking out that bolt for a golgari charm main perhaps, though. I like having the third bolt. But I sided charm in so much today, and it can be pretty nice to be able to do so many things (kill enchantments, kill elves, kill true-name, kill D&T guys, etc.). It may not save you against a bad combo matchup (though I imagine it's not the worst thing to blow up a sneak attack or omniscience, even if sometimes it just buys you a turn (and sometimes does more than that)), but it may be all around more helpful than another bolt. Unsure.
I remember a few Jund lists with that singleton Golgari charm mainboard during SCG Opens weeks back.
It's definitely worth considering since, as you mentioned, it does so much against a variety of different decks. It's almost never really a dead card, tbh. (even the regeneration can become crucial during some matchups.)
It's definitely worth considering since, as you mentioned, it does so much against a variety of different decks. It's almost never really a dead card, tbh. (even the regeneration can become crucial during some matchups.)
Yeah. Thinking back, I may have actually boarded it in every single round. Will probably try 1 main at the next smaller legacy event.
Why are all lists playing three bloodbraids? It's easily one of the best cards in the deck right? Granted I am extremely new to legacy and this deck. Just finished my list below.
Why are all lists playing three bloodbraids? It's easily one of the best cards in the deck right? Granted I am extremely new to legacy and this deck. Just finished my list below.
Bloodbraid is one of my favorite cards and is one of the biggest reasons I am playing this deck. That being said, there are too many times where you get stuck with a Bloodbraid or 2 in hand when you cannot cast the damn thing. For that reason, 3 tend to be played MB.
For the list that got 9th place, I actually played against him at a tourney a week before SCG LA. He told me that the second Sylvan and the Scooze have been extremely instrumental vs. the non-blue decks. A second Sylvan and Scooze give him an edge in the mirror and against especially. I don't like the fact that he cut one to do it, but it seems like a lot of Jund decks are doing that right now.
Also, the guy plays the deck extremely well. Considering every single card in his deck was either foil or a foreign black border, I imagine he's been playing this deck for a while.
Bloodbraid is one of my favorite cards and is one of the biggest reasons I am playing this deck. That being said, there are too many times where you get stuck with a Bloodbraid or 2 in hand when you cannot cast the damn thing. For that reason, 3 tend to be played MB.
For the list that got 9th place, I actually played against him at a tourney a week before SCG LA. He told me that the second Sylvan and the Scooze have been extremely instrumental vs. the non-blue decks. A second Sylvan and Scooze give him an edge in the mirror and against especially. I don't like the fact that he cut one to do it, but it seems like a lot of Jund decks are doing that right now.
Also, the guy plays the deck extremely well. Considering every single card in his deck was either foil or a foreign black border, I imagine he's been playing this deck for a while.
I also love Bloodbraid Elf. Don't get me wrong, cascading into stuff is extremely fun and swingy. But, just as centurion911 mentioned, there are far way too many times that the elf gets stuck in the hand due to mana restrictions. I used to run 4 as well, but slowly cut it to three being the widespread accepted number. Personally, I'm trying cutting it down to two to make space for the single ooze mainboard, and I still see the elf often enough during games due to the sylvan and bob triggers. I would play 3 but I feel like I just REALLY want the 4 abrupt decays maindeck.
Like everyone else has said, too many times Bloodbraid Elf is stuck in your hand with 2 or 3 land in play and a dead draw. Having played with both 3 and 4 for a long time, I feel 3 is the right number. I've outright lost games where I had one in hand with 2 or 3 lands in play and then drawn another one. It's pretty frustrating.
I replaced the 4th BBE with a flex slot where I can put in something like Life from the Loam, Maelstrom Pulse, etc. based on what I expect.
Winner of the SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Jul 26-28, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
Whatever SB list I grabbed only had 1, I'm most likely going to add 1 posssibly 2.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/budget-legacy/545896-budget-jund
Has the 1 card ever bother you? I've always found Jund to be EXTREMELY tight and I've been thinking of going that 61st card just for Loam as well.
R1: Reanimator (2-1); I beat a resolved Iona naming black to win Game 3. That was the 2nd best highlight of the day.
R2: U/W/R Delver (2-0)
R3: RUG Delver (2-0)
R4: Lands (2-1)
R5: Sneak and Show (1-2)
R6: Reanimator (1-2); Lost to Mr. Thomas Graves (Iona on black). Considering he just won a Legacy Open with this deck, I don't feel too bad. Really nice guy too.
R7: Bant Stoneblade (2-0)
R8: Tin Fins (2-0); I beat a Turn 2 Emrakul on this one. Highlight #1 of the day.
R9: BUG Delver (2-1)
Here's my list:
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Dark Confidant
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Sylvan Library
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Life from the Loam
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Punishing Fire
2x Lightning Bolt
3x Hymn to Tourach
4x Thoughtseize
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Bloodstained Mire
2x Bayou
2x Badlands
1x Swamp
1x Forest
3x Wasteland
2x Duress
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Massacre
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Golgari Charm
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Maelstrom Pulse
Changes going forward? I'll probably cut either Scavenging Ooze or the second Maelstrom Pulse for a Chains of Mephistopheles I picked up while I was there. It's also possible I may cut the Golgari Charm instead, as I felt that I had way more True-name hate than necessary. I'll also probably be cutting the 2x Lightning Bolts from the main in favor of the 4th Abrupt Decay and possible a second Sylvan Library, but most likely the 4th Punishing Fire.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
A question I have is Engineered Plague vs. Golgari Charm. I have multiple friends who swing one way or the other. What are the main benefits of either or?
Jund
Legacy:
4c Loam
Noble BUG
I like Engineered Plague for its permanence. There are some games where opponents can rebuild after a golgari charm.
Some matchups even concede to a resolved Engineered Plague, since nothing they can play can even interact with the card.
Also replaced Toxic Deluge with Engineered Plague. I've been cascading into Deluge and have had it in my hand with Liliana out and it can be very underwhelming when I'm ahead. Plague fills the same role but is an action card no matter what. I can just name Merfolk or Kor or Bird or Thopter and it will take care of my problem in the same way.
Jund
Legacy:
4c Loam
Noble BUG
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
Removal: 10
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
4 Lightning Bolt
Discard: 8
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Liliana of the Veil
Land: 23
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Wasteland
2 Bayou
2 Badlands
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Pyroblast
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Engineer Plague
1 Life from the Loam
Maelstrom pulse serves as an out for things abrupt decay and pfire/bolt can't touch. (JTMS, Laylines, etc)
and Sylvan Library is really the only library manipulation accessible for non-blue decks like us.
how was playtesting without these singletons but with a full playset of bolts feel?
I like having the extra removal early game against stoneforges, mother, etc.
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (23)
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
1 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Engineered Plague
1 Sylvan Library
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Golgari Charm
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Duress
I've had oozes in my main and sideboard for the past week and I've sort of liked it. (in fact, my list is almost the same except for having one less BBE, retaining the fourth Abrupt Decay, and swapping the Lightning bolts for Tragic Slip for testing.)
I've also noticed most lists going down to three hymns as well. Is this because of a less combo-heavy meta?
I'm also guessing the second Sylvan Library in the board is for control match-ups?
Also just played in SCG LA but did not get 9th. 5-4 put me a round off top 64 (if my breakers would've even put me there at 6-3). Lost to burn, omni show, some beautiful draws by Death & Taxes (not to diminish his own role in his victory; he played well), and a very close MUD matchup. Beat Stoneblade, Miracles, BUG delver, BUG delver, Sneak n' Show.
My List
I remember a few Jund lists with that singleton Golgari charm mainboard during SCG Opens weeks back.
It's definitely worth considering since, as you mentioned, it does so much against a variety of different decks. It's almost never really a dead card, tbh. (even the regeneration can become crucial during some matchups.)
Yeah. Thinking back, I may have actually boarded it in every single round. Will probably try 1 main at the next smaller legacy event.
My List
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
Spells:
4 Lilliana of the Veil
3 Punishing Fire
4 Thoughtseize
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Bloodstained Mire
The sb is still under construction.
Bloodbraid is one of my favorite cards and is one of the biggest reasons I am playing this deck. That being said, there are too many times where you get stuck with a Bloodbraid or 2 in hand when you cannot cast the damn thing. For that reason, 3 tend to be played MB.
For the list that got 9th place, I actually played against him at a tourney a week before SCG LA. He told me that the second Sylvan and the Scooze have been extremely instrumental vs. the non-blue decks. A second Sylvan and Scooze give him an edge in the mirror and against especially. I don't like the fact that he cut one to do it, but it seems like a lot of Jund decks are doing that right now.
Also, the guy plays the deck extremely well. Considering every single card in his deck was either foil or a foreign black border, I imagine he's been playing this deck for a while.
Jund
Legacy:
4c Loam
Noble BUG
I also love Bloodbraid Elf. Don't get me wrong, cascading into stuff is extremely fun and swingy. But, just as centurion911 mentioned, there are far way too many times that the elf gets stuck in the hand due to mana restrictions. I used to run 4 as well, but slowly cut it to three being the widespread accepted number. Personally, I'm trying cutting it down to two to make space for the single ooze mainboard, and I still see the elf often enough during games due to the sylvan and bob triggers. I would play 3 but I feel like I just REALLY want the 4 abrupt decays maindeck.
I replaced the 4th BBE with a flex slot where I can put in something like Life from the Loam, Maelstrom Pulse, etc. based on what I expect.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Punishing Fire
2 Sylvan Library
1 Golgari Charm
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
1 Swamp
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wasteland
2 Engineered Plague
1 Life from the Loam
3 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Duress
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
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