Just getting into Legacy and looking at Goldfish the most recent Jund List's don't run Punishing Fire/Grove combo and have opted for a more traditional Jund approach. Just wondering if I should be playing Punishing Jund instead? or is it just preference?
Just getting into Legacy and looking at Goldfish the most recent Jund List's don't run Punishing Fire/Grove combo and have opted for a more traditional Jund approach. Just wondering if I should be playing Punishing Jund instead? or is it just preference?
Against Midrange/Aggro deck is the best card you can draw. Also against Grixis Control has a fantastic power.
I don't want to cut any PFire and then any playset of GBurnwillows.
About Online and Paper there is a big difference. Online there are a lot of combos, and PFire doesn't work so much.
Just getting into Legacy and looking at Goldfish the most recent Jund List's don't run Punishing Fire/Grove combo and have opted for a more traditional Jund approach. Just wondering if I should be playing Punishing Jund instead? or is it just preference?
Punishing Fire is the very reason to play the deck and why we are so favored against other midrange and control decks. If your meta is filled with them then Jund is a great choice. It removes most creatures in their decks and if it's a slower game Punishing Fire just gives you inevitability to end the game (slowly).
For what I'm seeing of the format now, I think a build without Punishing Fire is fine. Grim Flayer, however, seems really weak due to the prevalence of Deathrite Shaman. I personally prefer to still run Punishing Fire myself. You really need to jam games with different builds online to find out what you would prefer.
Also no copies of Sylvan Library (I get you have Grim Flayer), but still seems weird.
I've been told these lists do well on MTGO because there is so much combo (it's cheap) so Punishing Fire is awful online. However, considering the most popular decks in Legacy right now are Death and Taxes (won a GP), Grixis Delver (and a bunch of Delver decks) and Blade decks, Punishing Fire seems just fine.
I noticed that too, but I think they're using Grim Flayer as a quasi-Sylvan Library, but that assumes that Grim Flayer gets to do its job in the first place. I just don't see it happening.
T1: PATRIOT 1-1 (0-0-1)
GAME 1: A very long game. Finally he was at 2 life points with True-Name Nemesis and a Umezawa's Jitte. Into my battlefield: Liliana at 2, Tarmogoyf 7/8, Deathrite Shaman. He had lost mathematically in short. Instead he managed to draw a Swords to Plowshares which he moved the balance needle in his favour: StP to Goyf, Combat on Lily with TNN and 2 counters to Deathrite Shaman. I've lost the match in this mode.
GAME 2: Land-Deathrite, Land-Liliana, Land-Elf + Goyf and then, Elf + PFire...GG.
GAME 3: Another very long game. I hadn't draw any KCommand or Lilly in order to destroy his Batterskull, and then the bell rang. 1-1
T2: NEW MIRACLE 2-0 (1-0-1)
GAME 1: Deathrite-Tourach-Tourach + Liliana. GG
GAME 2: The choice to split 2 Elf MD and 2 SB was very strong. The pressure it gave me was what I needed. 2 Elf + some discard spells and I brought home the match.
T3: DEATHBLADE 1-2 (1-1-1)
GAME 1: A grindy match. But 2 Goyf 7/8 resolved the match.
GAME 2: He drew all spells he needed. He managed to counter 2 Tourach and a Toxic Deluge with 2 Nemesis.
GAME 3: He made Shaman, Stoneforge, TNN, TNN, Jace. I drew only lands and I mulligan to 5.
T4: SNEAK&SHOW 2-1 (2-1-1)
GAME 1: he won easily despite of a Tourach.
GAME 2: Duress + SExtraction on Sneak. Another Seize on STell and Goyf made me the victory.
GAME 3: Duress-Counter, Tourach-Counter, Show&tell --> show: Griselbrand and Chains of Mephistopheles. In my turn Liliana of the Veil and I won the game.
T5: UB CONTROL 2-1 (3-1-1)
GAME 1: Another very long game. He played a strange deck with Crucible of Worlds-EE-Academy Ruins and Volrath's Stronghold. I conceded after 10 minutes -.-.
GAME 2: Seize + Tourach + Bob + Elf + Elf. G3.
GAME 3: A very very very long game. I managed to do the Ultimate of Liliana, but he drew Crucible. He drew all removal he nedeed, but in the second additional turn 2 Elf brought home the match (Punishing Fire and Goyf cascade ability).
T6: ESPER MIRACLE 2-1 (4-1-1)
GAME 1: I didn't draw any discard spell and, on the other hand, he drew all Predict he needed. I conceded after his 3th predict, even if he hadn't the finisher.
GAME 2: Shaman, Tourach, Elf + Elf. G3.
GAME 3: Seize + Duress + Tourach + Liliana / Chains. GG.
TOP8: GRIXIS CONTROL 0-2
GAME 1: I drew all Decays. A Gurmag Angler the finisher.
GAME 2: I had only dual + Grove in my hand. I played Seize and Goyf. He drew at 3th turn Blood Moon and I've lost the match.
So, I'm very happy about my second positive result with this decklist.
With Jund I made only 2 tournments...I can't wish for better.
With this top8, I finished 4th in the final League Ranking (Before Sensei's ban I played Miracles, and then Jund).
Now, I'll test Liliana the Last Hope. I think it makes do a lot of things now.
I like your list a lot. Looks a lot like my list. The only thing different is my mana base (I only play 1 Swamp and 1 Forest). My sideboard is very different however. I have two Diabolic Edict because True-Name Nemesis is annoying and so are reanimator and Omni-Show. What purpose does Collective Brutality have for you? Moving the two Bloodbraid Elf to the sideboard is pretty smart. It fixes the issue I've been having with the card.
I like your list a lot. Looks a lot like my list. The only thing different is my mana base (I only play 1 Swamp and 1 Forest). My sideboard is very different however. I have two Diabolic Edict because True-Name Nemesis is annoying and so are reanimator and Omni-Show. What purpose does Collective Brutality have for you? Moving the two Bloodbraid Elf to the sideboard is pretty smart. It fixes the issue I've been having with the card.
So, I've never drew Cbrutality in this tournments. i dont know if this is a good choice or not. It was only a test. About edict, I think you have the reason, because TNN is very annoying.
The choice of 2 swamp and 1 forest is because of the playset of Belf. i want to play it ever;in addition blood moon.
And then, 2-2 belf is the best choice I've made in this tournment LOL
I don't want to cut the combo PFire + GotBurnwillows..
I got started from the list of QBTURTLE15, which is making excellent results. In comparison though, I want to play Dark Confidant (there are a lot of Grixis in my meta) and PFire instead of Bolt.
What do u think about the list?
I don't want to cut the combo PFire + GotBurnwillows..
I got started from the list of QBTURTLE15, which is making excellent results. In comparison though, I want to play Dark Confidant (there are a lot of Grixis in my meta) and PFire instead of Bolt.
What do u think about the list?
List looks fine. Don't ever cut the Punishing Fire combo in my opinion. It's the main reason to play this deck over the other Blue midrange decks.
I think I mentioned earlier that I thought Lightning Bolt was underwhelming so I'm glad I'm not the only one. Your list looks fairly similar to mine (the one in my signature is outdated). The main difference is I only run one K Command and instead run a 2nd Sylvan (I feel good if I have a resolved Sylvan) and I run 4 Thoughtseize and 3 Hymn instead of your 3/4 split. Also I have a Maelstrom Pulse in there somewhere. I'd suggest one too since it's a "catch all" and can deal with resolved Planeswalkers, Gurmag Angler, etc.
At the same time, I stopped playing this due to so much combo in my meta (over half the room), but if your meta is mostly Delver and fair decks, you should be fine.
Bloodbraid elf and punishing fire are really the reasons you play red over blue. I don't think cutting them is really a viable option.
Except that's not a good argument if the cards just aren't good enough.
I have to say that Punishing Fire has been very underwhelming in the paper matches that I've played (I've been testing with a teammate for the team SCG event). I've already cut down on the number of Bloodbraid Elf in the main deck as well. I still do really well against Delver, Reanimator, 4C Control (or Czech Pile), which are all top decks currently. That being the case, I can see where having blue cards instead of red ones is a bit better right now.
Bloodbraid elf and punishing fire are really the reasons you play red over blue. I don't think cutting them is really a viable option.
Except that's not a good argument if the cards just aren't good enough.
I have to say that Punishing Fire has been very underwhelming in the paper matches that I've played (I've been testing with a teammate for the team SCG event). I've already cut down on the number of Bloodbraid Elf in the main deck as well. I still do really well against Delver, Reanimator, 4C Control (or Czech Pile), which are all top decks currently. That being the case, I can see where having blue cards instead of red ones is a bit better right now.
Some dude won a tournament with Arlinn Kord/Liliana of the Veil split. GR pw's have generally been scorned in modern jund decks, what makes Arlinn good in legacy? Genuinely interested.
Seems like Legacy decks are lighter on removal for things that aren't creatures. Once something like that gets down, it's allowed to do work until the opponent works to fix it.
Against Midrange/Aggro deck is the best card you can draw. Also against Grixis Control has a fantastic power.
I don't want to cut any PFire and then any playset of GBurnwillows.
About Online and Paper there is a big difference. Online there are a lot of combos, and PFire doesn't work so much.
Punishing Fire is the very reason to play the deck and why we are so favored against other midrange and control decks. If your meta is filled with them then Jund is a great choice. It removes most creatures in their decks and if it's a slower game Punishing Fire just gives you inevitability to end the game (slowly).
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/689520#paper
I got almost all these cards except legacy lands (im new to legacy).
What you guys think?
I've been told these lists do well on MTGO because there is so much combo (it's cheap) so Punishing Fire is awful online. However, considering the most popular decks in Legacy right now are Death and Taxes (won a GP), Grixis Delver (and a bunch of Delver decks) and Blade decks, Punishing Fire seems just fine.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
Not that I know of. There is a MTGLegacy subreddit on Reddit and if you're not already there, the Source is a forum basically only about Legacy.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
This is my decklist:
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Punishing Fire
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Library
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Duress
2 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Collective Brutality
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
T1: PATRIOT 1-1 (0-0-1)
GAME 1: A very long game. Finally he was at 2 life points with True-Name Nemesis and a Umezawa's Jitte. Into my battlefield: Liliana at 2, Tarmogoyf 7/8, Deathrite Shaman. He had lost mathematically in short. Instead he managed to draw a Swords to Plowshares which he moved the balance needle in his favour: StP to Goyf, Combat on Lily with TNN and 2 counters to Deathrite Shaman. I've lost the match in this mode.
GAME 2: Land-Deathrite, Land-Liliana, Land-Elf + Goyf and then, Elf + PFire...GG.
GAME 3: Another very long game. I hadn't draw any KCommand or Lilly in order to destroy his Batterskull, and then the bell rang. 1-1
T2: NEW MIRACLE 2-0 (1-0-1)
GAME 1: Deathrite-Tourach-Tourach + Liliana. GG
GAME 2: The choice to split 2 Elf MD and 2 SB was very strong. The pressure it gave me was what I needed. 2 Elf + some discard spells and I brought home the match.
T3: DEATHBLADE 1-2 (1-1-1)
GAME 1: A grindy match. But 2 Goyf 7/8 resolved the match.
GAME 2: He drew all spells he needed. He managed to counter 2 Tourach and a Toxic Deluge with 2 Nemesis.
GAME 3: He made Shaman, Stoneforge, TNN, TNN, Jace. I drew only lands and I mulligan to 5.
T4: SNEAK&SHOW 2-1 (2-1-1)
GAME 1: he won easily despite of a Tourach.
GAME 2: Duress + SExtraction on Sneak. Another Seize on STell and Goyf made me the victory.
GAME 3: Duress-Counter, Tourach-Counter, Show&tell --> show: Griselbrand and Chains of Mephistopheles. In my turn Liliana of the Veil and I won the game.
T5: UB CONTROL 2-1 (3-1-1)
GAME 1: Another very long game. He played a strange deck with Crucible of Worlds-EE-Academy Ruins and Volrath's Stronghold. I conceded after 10 minutes -.-.
GAME 2: Seize + Tourach + Bob + Elf + Elf. G3.
GAME 3: A very very very long game. I managed to do the Ultimate of Liliana, but he drew Crucible. He drew all removal he nedeed, but in the second additional turn 2 Elf brought home the match (Punishing Fire and Goyf cascade ability).
T6: ESPER MIRACLE 2-1 (4-1-1)
GAME 1: I didn't draw any discard spell and, on the other hand, he drew all Predict he needed. I conceded after his 3th predict, even if he hadn't the finisher.
GAME 2: Shaman, Tourach, Elf + Elf. G3.
GAME 3: Seize + Duress + Tourach + Liliana / Chains. GG.
TOP8: GRIXIS CONTROL 0-2
GAME 1: I drew all Decays. A Gurmag Angler the finisher.
GAME 2: I had only dual + Grove in my hand. I played Seize and Goyf. He drew at 3th turn Blood Moon and I've lost the match.
So, I'm very happy about my second positive result with this decklist.
With Jund I made only 2 tournments...I can't wish for better.
With this top8, I finished 4th in the final League Ranking (Before Sensei's ban I played Miracles, and then Jund).
Now, I'll test Liliana the Last Hope. I think it makes do a lot of things now.
What do u think about my list?
So, I've never drew Cbrutality in this tournments. i dont know if this is a good choice or not. It was only a test. About edict, I think you have the reason, because TNN is very annoying.
The choice of 2 swamp and 1 forest is because of the playset of Belf. i want to play it ever;in addition blood moon.
And then, 2-2 belf is the best choice I've made in this tournment LOL
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Punishing Fire
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Library
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Diabolic Edict
1 To the Slaughter
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
I don't want to cut the combo PFire + GotBurnwillows..
I got started from the list of QBTURTLE15, which is making excellent results. In comparison though, I want to play Dark Confidant (there are a lot of Grixis in my meta) and PFire instead of Bolt.
What do u think about the list?
List looks fine. Don't ever cut the Punishing Fire combo in my opinion. It's the main reason to play this deck over the other Blue midrange decks.
I think I mentioned earlier that I thought Lightning Bolt was underwhelming so I'm glad I'm not the only one. Your list looks fairly similar to mine (the one in my signature is outdated). The main difference is I only run one K Command and instead run a 2nd Sylvan (I feel good if I have a resolved Sylvan) and I run 4 Thoughtseize and 3 Hymn instead of your 3/4 split. Also I have a Maelstrom Pulse in there somewhere. I'd suggest one too since it's a "catch all" and can deal with resolved Planeswalkers, Gurmag Angler, etc.
At the same time, I stopped playing this due to so much combo in my meta (over half the room), but if your meta is mostly Delver and fair decks, you should be fine.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
Except that's not a good argument if the cards just aren't good enough.
I have to say that Punishing Fire has been very underwhelming in the paper matches that I've played (I've been testing with a teammate for the team SCG event). I've already cut down on the number of Bloodbraid Elf in the main deck as well. I still do really well against Delver, Reanimator, 4C Control (or Czech Pile), which are all top decks currently. That being the case, I can see where having blue cards instead of red ones is a bit better right now.
Do you have a list? thanks!
Seems like Legacy decks are lighter on removal for things that aren't creatures. Once something like that gets down, it's allowed to do work until the opponent works to fix it.
The point I was trying to make is that if bloodbraid and punishing fire aren't good, then red is probably not the best color to be running.
This is pretty close to my list, but I run 60 cards MD. A few questions for you, and the rest of the group.
1. How do you deal with Tasigur & Angler (or other creatures out of Bolt range) when the removal package is bad vs them?
2. With the new Planeswalker rule come in Ixalan do we go with a 3/2 split on LotV + LtLH?
3. Should we be running Chains of Mephistopheles?
MODERN
BRG Jund
WU Control
UBRG Dredge
BG Elves
G Tron
Affinity
Building:
WR Boros Burn
UB Tezzerator
I also play Legacy, and EDH. Follow me at MTGPackFoils on Twitter.