If you're running Punishing Fire (and I'm not sure why you wouldn't), I think you definitely want 4 Grove of the Burnwillows. I've also been running a list that has 1 of each basic, including Mountain lately. There's just been too much Wasteland shenanigans for me to run otherwise. In an open metagame, I would run 1 basic land of each type. I think (away from the house at the moment) I run 3 Badlands and 2 Bayou. I know it's at least 2 of each. I generally feel cutting fetch lands to fit the mana base together isn't detrimental, but it doesn't seem quite right either.
I often wonder about going up a badlands or swapping a swamp for a mountain...i play againt dnt a lot and they know to go after the red source...i actually have a mountain SB just for wastland decks
I am a modern Jund player and my friend is trying to get me into legacy. He said it should be a good transition to play jund in legacy since I only need the manabase, which can be proxied for now. However, I have my doubts and have a couple questions.
A) How viable is Jund in legacy? Every response I have gotten is "Jund is a worse Shardless. Just play Shardless. Jund folds to combo". I dont want to spend time and energy and money into a legacy deck that just doesnt have the proper tools to win.
B) What does a common stock sideboard look like and what matchups are these cards brought in? I have played a couple games on cockatrice and sideboarding is super difficult.
C) How important is Chains of Mephistopheles? I dont like knowing there is a $300 price barrier on one card that might be very important to Junds success.
I use to play shardless...i loved that deck to pieces. However, a)you still lose to combo almost just as much, 4 fow wont help that much,b) you lose to dnt..shardless doesnt have enough removal to stop or even slow it down enough for you to turn the corner. C) shardless also losses to infect, again, not enough removal
Also, i dont own chains....i dont go to enough legacy tournaments to justify it. Just play choke
I went 3-0 split for first; lost 2 games (hint: always take primeval titan when you thoughtseize).
sadly, waste not was probably the weakest card.
I never cast crucible of worlds, abrupt decay was great and deathrite shaman was very important for early mana fixing.
I promised myself I would make a new deck for every event, so I might come back and tinker with this list eventually...
I often wonder about going up a badlands or swapping a swamp for a mountain...i play againt dnt a lot and they know to go after the red source...i actually have a mountain SB just for wastland decks
I play nearly the same lands except I have 1 Mountain instead of 2 Swamps (i.e. 1 and 1). I've never had an issue with it and have had that manabase for over five years now. Like you said, there are times you really need that Mountain because any good player knows to take out our Grove of the Burnwillows. I oftentimes will play my Bayou or Badlands just to get their Wasteland before I play my Groves. The basic Mountain helps a little here since we can't be locked out of Red.
I often wonder about going up a badlands or swapping a swamp for a mountain...i play againt dnt a lot and they know to go after the red source...i actually have a mountain SB just for wastland decks
I play nearly the same lands except I have 1 Mountain instead of 2 Swamps (i.e. 1 and 1). I've never had an issue with it and have had that manabase for over five years now. Like you said, there are times you really need that Mountain because any good player knows to take out our Grove of the Burnwillows. I oftentimes will play my Bayou or Badlands just to get their Wasteland before I play my Groves. The basic Mountain helps a little here since we can't be locked out of Red.
Ya ive thought about swapping out a swamp for a mountain, i run a mountain SB for dnt
Played in a Star City Games Legacy Qualifier and got 3rd/4th. Went 3-1-1 in Swiss rounds, made Top 8, won my quarterfinals match, and then lost in the semis. It's annoying, but TCG won't let me update my list, which didn't run Arlinn Kord. I played a pretty traditional list that I'd been playing for 5+ years now.
Round 1 I drew to Goblins, which was surprising, but I just couldn't end the third game fast enough. I had to prioritize killing his Goblins with the Punishing Fire engine and by the time I had it stabilized, we were in turns and I had no clock (spent all my mana on removal). Think with 5 or so more turns I could have had it, but if I didn't do the removal, I'd have lost to Piledrivers and other things a lot earlier. 0-0-1
Round 2 I beat Lands, which surprised me since I feel this is a bad match-up. I got lucky Game 1 with a lot Wastelands to stop his Depths combo twice and Game 2 I Rakdos Charmed his entire GY and Maelstrom Pulsed his two Mox Diamonds. After a Wasteland, he scooped. 1-0-1
Round 3 I beat Death and Taxes, which is considerably harder with Prelate in the main deck now. They name 2 and it's hard to kill things since Punishing Fire and Decay are both on 2. I won Game 1 and then won Game 2 after I finally drew my Toxic Deluge to kill the Prelate with Batterskull equipped. He was at like 32 life by the time I killed it, but it worked out. 2-0-1
Round 4 I lost to Burn, which is expected. However, I had the game won and guessed wrong. I had an untapped Wasteland (to kill my non-basics if he tries to Price me) and could have played a fetchland to fetch a Badlands to Punishing Fire the last two damage on him, but I thought he had a Price and would kill me in response since I'd be tapped out with a ton of non-basics. I guessed wrong and he had Fireblast and topdecked a bolt after I passed. I should have just gone for the lethal since he didn't have Price. Oh well. 2-1-1
Round 5 I beat Aluren Combo. I had to play since I was on the bubble and it worked out. Game 1 I had a decent clock and Game 2 I Slaughter Games his Aluren. 3-1-1
Top 8 Quarter Finals I beat Eldrazi, which is surprising. He steamrolls me Game 1 with a T4 kill. Game 2 I was at 2 life, but stabilize after killing all his creatures and come back. A Deathrite got me back up to 9 or so life and I close it out from there. Game 3 he keeps a hand of sideboard cards, but only one creature. That would be a mistake because he wouldn't draw many more and I win with the Punishing Fire engine (he killed most of my creatures). Again, this one is very surprising since Eldrazi is a bad match-up.
Top 4 Semi Finals I lost to OmniTell, which is expected. I surprisingly take Game 1 when he can't find his combo pieces after a ton of cantrips. I felt pretty good at this point since I have two games to take one, but he went off pretty fast so I couldn't cast my Slaughter Games before he Show and Tells Omniscience or Emrakul. Oh well. We lose to combo.
Anyway, all in all I was pleased with the results. Surprisingly didn't play any fair Blue decks, which is why I play the deck, but it somehow worked out. I actually thought going in that it would go poorly so it was a nice result.
Why aren't you running Surgical Extraction? Seems to me to be much better against that deck, as you can play around chancellor with it if you're on the play and it's still an answer if they're on the play sans protection.
I like Grafdiggers because it also hits Elves and completely shuts down manaless Dredge. Then again, the latter isn't that popular. I could add Surgical and take out Rakdos Charm, but I like the modal spells that give me options.
I have a quick question for you guys. First of all, I am new to legacy and haven't played it yet. As I was browsing through the decks, Jund caught my attention. Basically, since I own the Modern version of Jund, Legacy Jund would be the perfect start for me to jump into legacy, as I already own quite a bunch of cards for it. Basically only the duals, wasteland and grove of the burnwillows are missing, which are indeed experinsive, but overall seems to be the cheapest way for me to jump into legacy. Also this deck looks amazingly fun to play, as I love playing Jund in modern, so this would be perfect actually.
The thing is tough, Jund doesn't appear to be overwhelmingly present in the meta (I am using MTGGoldfish for determination) and according to MTGGoldfish, the top decks are Miracles, Eldrazi, Delver, Shardless, D&T, Storm and Elves at the moment. What do you guys think about this Matchups? I dont know anything about which is a good MU and which isn't, do you think Jund does reasonably well against these decks so that its worth buying into the deck? Besides playing a fun deck, I also want to be able to win and compete against other decks, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to me
Also, because of this, does this deck need a lot of fine tuning and adjustments to certain metas? Sideboards do vary quite a bit from what I have seen, but maindeckwise most of the lists are pretty similar. So what do the experienced players here think?
EDIT: Sorry, nevermind, pretty much this question was posted just a few pages back, should have looked before posting. But maybe you guys could still tell me about the matchups i posted above? Which of them are favoured and which of them are bad? Are only combo decks the worst matchups? Any other completely bad matchups?
You should own Miracles and D&T. Storm has the advantage in game 1 but you can hit them hard with your sideboard in games 2 and 3. I personally believe Elves is a tough match even after sideboard because they usually being relevant anti-hate. I guess I should say all of the previous was with Punishing Jund. In any case, Legacy rewards players for understanding their deck and it's matches more than Modern. I'd suggest jamming some games online or on paper with proxies of you have someone to test with.
You should own Miracles and D&T. Storm has the advantage in game 1 but you can hit them hard with your sideboard in games 2 and 3. I personally believe Elves is a tough match even after sideboard because they usually being relevant anti-hate. I guess I should say all of the previous was with Punishing Jund. In any case, Legacy rewards players for understanding their deck and it's matches more than Modern. I'd suggest jamming some games online or on paper with proxies of you have someone to test with.
Yep, that seems like a great advice, practice will surely be the best way to get better at a certain deck, I just wanted to know if it would also be the right deck to start, and the right deck which has potential winning games frequently if the SB and MB is tuned correctly and the knowledge of the player is decent enough.
You should own Miracles and D&T. Storm has the advantage in game 1 but you can hit them hard with your sideboard in games 2 and 3. I personally believe Elves is a tough match even after sideboard because they usually being relevant anti-hate.
I agree with most of this other than Elves. I find post-board we're in pretty good shape since we usually bring in 2 - 4 -X/-X effects and if used properly, it can win the game. Game one you should keep hands with the Punishing Fire and recursion because you can keep them from developing a board and they will eventually run out of gas.
In short, we're heavily favored against Miracles, Delver decks, and Shardless BUG and since Miracles is the most popular and most powerful deck, that's in itself a decent reason to play Jund. We're slightly favored against DnT and I'd say Elves is a 50/50, and lastly most combo decks and Eldrazi we're unfavored. I used to say we're pretty favored against DnT, but Prelate has changed that.
You should own Miracles and D&T. Storm has the advantage in game 1 but you can hit them hard with your sideboard in games 2 and 3. I personally believe Elves is a tough match even after sideboard because they usually being relevant anti-hate.
I agree with most of this other than Elves. I find post-board we're in pretty good shape since we usually bring in 2 - 4 -X/-X effects and if used properly, it can win the game. Game one you should keep hands with the Punishing Fire and recursion because you can keep them from developing a board and they will eventually run out of gas.
In short, we're heavily favored against Miracles, Delver decks, and Shardless BUG and since Miracles is the most popular and most powerful deck, that's in itself a decent reason to play Jund. We're slightly favored against DnT and I'd say Elves is a 50/50, and lastly most combo decks and Eldrazi we're unfavored. I used to say we're pretty favored against DnT, but Prelate has changed that.
What do you think about the infect MU? I've seen infect being present in my meta, so I'd like to know
I am actually inspired by your list, which I found on MTGgoldfish, it seems straightforward and I like 2 copies of Sylvan Library. I think I want to start by playing only 3 Wastelands at the beginning, because I don't know how much Blood Moon I am going to face. Sideboard wise I don't have a clue at all right now, but for now I would like to go with something like this:
I want to start with a diverse and basic sideboard, so that means some -1/-1, some GY hate, some Enchantment and Artifact destruction, some extra discard and choke against blue stuff, Pithing needle as a versatile slot, but I am not sure about the ooze, isn't it too slow in legacy?
What would you put in the extra 2 slots in the SB, extra GY hate, Null Rod?
Is it ok to play 4 basics, or is it too much? I can surely go up to 4 wastelands any time, just thought I start by dodging Blood Moon/Wasteland a bit more, don't know how present Blood Moon in legacy is though.
What do you think about the infect MU? I've seen infect being present in my meta, so I'd like to know
I feel we are pretty favored against Infect. They have only 12 creatures we care about (4 Glistener Elf, 4 Blighted Agent, and 4 Inkmoth Nexus) and Punishing Fire and Abrupt Decay kill all of those. Wastelands you should save for Inkmoth Nexus. Basically recurrable removal is ridiculous against them. I've noticed some are now running 2 Spellskite in the SB to counter us a bit, but even then you can kill it pretty easily and go back to killing their dudes. Again, they have very few threats. Also be sure to kill during your turn so they have to waste protection spells rather than use then during their combat where they get the bonus pumps.
I am actually inspired by your list, which I found on MTGgoldfish, it seems straightforward and I like 2 copies of Sylvan Library. I think I want to start by playing only 3 Wastelands at the beginning, because I don't know how much Blood Moon I am going to face.
That seems fine. I've been playing that main deck for over 5 years now. I think *maybe* I added the 2nd Sylvan somewhere between then and now, but that's it. The rest has been stable for years now and I've been very happy with it. I know I could run Bolts, but I'd rather run 4 Abrupt Decay, 4 Punishing Fire, and more Hymn to Tourach. Those are usually what get lowered for bolts. I might start running 2 bolts if DnT starts becoming a problem with its Prelates on 2, but right now the Toxic Deluges in the SB seem to be enough.
I want to start with a diverse and basic sideboard, so that means some -1/-1, some GY hate, some Enchantment and Artifact destruction, some extra discard and choke against blue stuff, Pithing needle as a versatile slot, but I am not sure about the ooze, isn't it too slow in legacy?
What would you put in the extra 2 slots in the SB, extra GY hate, Null Rod?
The Scavenging Ooze is for GY-based decks, but also decks that will side in RIP against us. Goyf becomes a 0/1, but Ooze will always be at least a 2/2 (i.e. a slow clock). Basically Ooze is dual purpose since it helps with GY decks, but also against Miracles, which will side in RIP. It also destroys Elves after you kill all their dudes and provide a little life gain against Burn (which we are unfavored against).
Is it ok to play 4 basics, or is it too much? I can surely go up to 4 wastelands any time, just thought I start by dodging Blood Moon/Wasteland a bit more, don't know how present Blood Moon in legacy is though.
That's fine too. I know folks run 3 with 2 swamps and no Mountain, but that basic Mountain has gotten me out of trouble a ton of times. Without it you can get wasted out of Red sources. Groves are a priority for them to remove (any good player saves their Wastelands for our Groves) and once they see how little Red you have, they will attack your Badlands too. With a basic Mountain you're protected against all that.
That's interesting, especially since you don't play Lightning Bolt, Forked Bolt or any 1-CMC kill spell. I've found that Infect kills Jund very easily if you don't have early disruption on turns 1 or 2. Maybe it's just my luck.
@dwchang thank you very much for your insight, this helps a lot, appreciate it!
@chaos21 hm, so maybe its a good idea to run a couple of Sudden Shock in the side if I face quite a bit of Infect?
@Dissidiaanatheme Wow, thx for your guide on the MUs, really appreciate it. So if I happend to have quite a bit of combo and eldrazi in my meta (in fact I don't know yet as I didn't play yet, but just assuming) besides the fact that it would not make much sense to play the deck and it would be better to switch to something else, is there a way I can really focus on these MUs? Beside Hymn MB, what can I have in my sideboard against them?
Infect isn't that great a match-up as it seems. Inkmoth Nexus is the most dangerous threat, as it's unblockable and dodges half of our removal (liliana and abrupt decay, plus the lone toxic deluge and maelstrom pulse). If we do not draw into wasteland (which is typically game-winning), burn is the only good answer and that can be blanked by their pump spells or a pendelhaven activation. With exalted triggers, they can force us to take the initiative to win the stack battle. Punishing Fire actually isn't all that great against infect, because it is much too slow. Of course, it's important in guaranteeing you the late game, but its role in stabilizing the early game is limited. You need your other spot removal for that, as well as your discard and wastelands.
I'd say the very favorable match-ups for Jund are Delver, Miracles, Stoneblade and Death & Taxes. Shardless, Elves and Infect are more or less 50/50. Storm, Eldrazi, Lands and Reanimator are all rather poor. Belcher, Sneaky show and Burn are absolutely horrible. Dredge and oops all spells are not as bad, because you have access to the best grave hate (including deathrite shaman in a supporting role) and turn 1 thoughtseize or duress also hurts these decks a lot.
Thanks for sharing your insights, it helps kinda get an idea of how the deck is positioned overall and lets me focus on what I'll need if I face my meta. How do you tackle the Combo and Eldrazi MU? Just ignore? Or dedicate some SB slots. What do you think are the best SB options available against Combo and Eldrazi?
@Flyingdelver : Dismember can be a great add MB instead of bolt, and you can go for a full playset of seize and hymn. When Sneak and Show was very popular, I used to MB one Diabolic Edict.
In side, if grave strategy are very popular, you can go for 4 Leyline of the Void + one Cage (it is also good agains't Storm).
Pyroblast is a great card agains't Omnishow. Choke is in general a good addition.
As an expensive slot, you have Chains of Mephistopheles. The card is bonker really, it will win you many games when you resolve it. The downside is that sometimes, your opponent can win trough it.
I don't have many ideas for Eldrazi, if you had 0 combo deck in your meta and it was the main issue, Terminate could be an idea, but a really poor one. The MU is just as bad as in Modern, But you can try Blood Moon, even if it is a bit slow.
Note that, in Legacy, there is no reason to not play a deck in your meta. Jund is a solid deck and sometimes it will feel really bad but it is good enough to overpower any match-up.
@Mad Mat : I didn't really test this MU oftenly, but a friend of mine that had good result with it told me once how the MU was really bad for him, the combination of discard, wasteland and burn forms a solid barrier to kill with the deck.
Do you think Chains of Mephistopheles is a good choice against Combo? Against which MUs would you also side this card in? Card seems great, but unbelievably expensive. Other than that, thanks for your tips, apreciate it!
[quote from="Mad Mat »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/midrange/179839-deck-jund?comment=1205"]Thanks for sharing your insights, it helps kinda get an idea of how the deck is positioned overall and lets me focus on what I'll need if I face my meta. How do you tackle the Combo and Eldrazi MU? Just ignore? Or dedicate some SB slots. What do you think are the best SB options available against Combo and Eldrazi?
I haven't played the deck as much since eldrazi, so I don't have a lot to say on that match-up. I posted some suggestions one page back.
Against combo, I've always liked to combine discard with surgical extraction (2 duress and 2-3 surgical in the side). This approach was weaker when people played more leyline of sanctity in side, but I haven't seen that in a while. Slaughter Games is also powerful, but too often it will be too slow at 4 mana. Keep in mind that most combo decks will try to race you once they realize you have no countermagic and a lot of discard, including soft lock cards like liliana of the veil and deathrite shaman. Might be interesting to now play Lost Legacy instead, as the mana difference has a high impact.
I've never been a fan of red blasts, as I think they're too weak in the combo games (most critical combo spells are not blue) and also too expected in a deck with no other counterspells and no ethersworn canonist for it to make much difference against omniscience. The only combo match-up where blast seems really good would be omnitell, but it's still such a conditional answer. In fair midrange and control match-ups, the blasts have a terrible interaction with bloodbraid elf which is a key card in such games. Hate permanents such as Null Rod, Chains of Mephistopheles and Grafdigger's Cage have always been great 1-offs given how warping they can be in the right match-up. Another rule of thumb I've virtually always used is that every jund sideboard should include 2 pithing needle and 1 golgari charm.
@Dissidiaanatheme: I tested the infect match-up quite a bit back in the day, and it rang more or less 50/50 to me. The extra bolt people play now will help a lot, but cutting down on wasteland will weaken you even more. Similar to other midrange decks in the format, we're just not well equipped to deal with manlands other than through wasteland. And unlike other midrange decks, we have few means of finding them.
Alright, I think I want 2 Surgicals in the SB to begin with. Then I'll see where it goes. Pithing Needle and Golgari Charm are also in my mind for the SB, seems great. Thanks for the tips!
Just my 2 cents.
My lands:
4 verdant
3 bloodstained
1 wooded foothills
2 badlands
2 bayou
2 swamp
1 forest
4 wasteland
4 grove
I use to play shardless...i loved that deck to pieces. However, a)you still lose to combo almost just as much, 4 fow wont help that much,b) you lose to dnt..shardless doesnt have enough removal to stop or even slow it down enough for you to turn the corner. C) shardless also losses to infect, again, not enough removal
Also, i dont own chains....i dont go to enough legacy tournaments to justify it. Just play choke
3 anvil of bogardan
4 deathrite shaman
3 punishing fire
1 kolaghan's command
3 abrupt decay
4 dark confidant
3 thoughtseize
1 inquisition of kozilek
3 hymn to tourach
2 mox diamond
1 cursed scroll
3 liliana of the veil
1 waste not
1 crucible of worlds
1 life from the loam
1 forest
2 swamp
3 verdant catacombs
2 bayou
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3 wasteland
2 badlands
3 bloodstained mire
3 grove of the burnwillows
1 raging ravine
1 virtue's ruin
1 reclamation sage
1 toxic deluge
1 maelstrom pulse
1 diabolic edict
2 surgical extraction
1 boil
1 red elemental blast
3 leyline of sanctity
3 leyline of the void
I went 3-0 split for first; lost 2 games (hint: always take primeval titan when you thoughtseize).
sadly, waste not was probably the weakest card.
I never cast crucible of worlds, abrupt decay was great and deathrite shaman was very important for early mana fixing.
I promised myself I would make a new deck for every event, so I might come back and tinker with this list eventually...
EDIT: I would drop waste not and the mox diamonds for maybe ensnaring bridge,grim lavamancer and scavenging ooze.
I play nearly the same lands except I have 1 Mountain instead of 2 Swamps (i.e. 1 and 1). I've never had an issue with it and have had that manabase for over five years now. Like you said, there are times you really need that Mountain because any good player knows to take out our Grove of the Burnwillows. I oftentimes will play my Bayou or Badlands just to get their Wasteland before I play my Groves. The basic Mountain helps a little here since we can't be locked out of Red.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
Ya ive thought about swapping out a swamp for a mountain, i run a mountain SB for dnt
Round 1 I drew to Goblins, which was surprising, but I just couldn't end the third game fast enough. I had to prioritize killing his Goblins with the Punishing Fire engine and by the time I had it stabilized, we were in turns and I had no clock (spent all my mana on removal). Think with 5 or so more turns I could have had it, but if I didn't do the removal, I'd have lost to Piledrivers and other things a lot earlier. 0-0-1
Round 2 I beat Lands, which surprised me since I feel this is a bad match-up. I got lucky Game 1 with a lot Wastelands to stop his Depths combo twice and Game 2 I Rakdos Charmed his entire GY and Maelstrom Pulsed his two Mox Diamonds. After a Wasteland, he scooped. 1-0-1
Round 3 I beat Death and Taxes, which is considerably harder with Prelate in the main deck now. They name 2 and it's hard to kill things since Punishing Fire and Decay are both on 2. I won Game 1 and then won Game 2 after I finally drew my Toxic Deluge to kill the Prelate with Batterskull equipped. He was at like 32 life by the time I killed it, but it worked out. 2-0-1
Round 4 I lost to Burn, which is expected. However, I had the game won and guessed wrong. I had an untapped Wasteland (to kill my non-basics if he tries to Price me) and could have played a fetchland to fetch a Badlands to Punishing Fire the last two damage on him, but I thought he had a Price and would kill me in response since I'd be tapped out with a ton of non-basics. I guessed wrong and he had Fireblast and topdecked a bolt after I passed. I should have just gone for the lethal since he didn't have Price. Oh well. 2-1-1
Round 5 I beat Aluren Combo. I had to play since I was on the bubble and it worked out. Game 1 I had a decent clock and Game 2 I Slaughter Games his Aluren. 3-1-1
Top 8 Quarter Finals I beat Eldrazi, which is surprising. He steamrolls me Game 1 with a T4 kill. Game 2 I was at 2 life, but stabilize after killing all his creatures and come back. A Deathrite got me back up to 9 or so life and I close it out from there. Game 3 he keeps a hand of sideboard cards, but only one creature. That would be a mistake because he wouldn't draw many more and I win with the Punishing Fire engine (he killed most of my creatures). Again, this one is very surprising since Eldrazi is a bad match-up.
Top 4 Semi Finals I lost to OmniTell, which is expected. I surprisingly take Game 1 when he can't find his combo pieces after a ton of cantrips. I felt pretty good at this point since I have two games to take one, but he went off pretty fast so I couldn't cast my Slaughter Games before he Show and Tells Omniscience or Emrakul. Oh well. We lose to combo.
Anyway, all in all I was pleased with the results. Surprisingly didn't play any fair Blue decks, which is why I play the deck, but it somehow worked out. I actually thought going in that it would go poorly so it was a nice result.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=110255
I may go to 2 Grafdigger's Cage in the future with the emergence of that new RB Reanimator deck.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
I like Grafdiggers because it also hits Elves and completely shuts down manaless Dredge. Then again, the latter isn't that popular. I could add Surgical and take out Rakdos Charm, but I like the modal spells that give me options.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
The thing is tough, Jund doesn't appear to be overwhelmingly present in the meta (I am using MTGGoldfish for determination) and according to MTGGoldfish, the top decks are Miracles, Eldrazi, Delver, Shardless, D&T, Storm and Elves at the moment. What do you guys think about this Matchups? I dont know anything about which is a good MU and which isn't, do you think Jund does reasonably well against these decks so that its worth buying into the deck? Besides playing a fun deck, I also want to be able to win and compete against other decks, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to me
Also, because of this, does this deck need a lot of fine tuning and adjustments to certain metas? Sideboards do vary quite a bit from what I have seen, but maindeckwise most of the lists are pretty similar. So what do the experienced players here think?
EDIT: Sorry, nevermind, pretty much this question was posted just a few pages back, should have looked before posting. But maybe you guys could still tell me about the matchups i posted above? Which of them are favoured and which of them are bad? Are only combo decks the worst matchups? Any other completely bad matchups?
Yep, that seems like a great advice, practice will surely be the best way to get better at a certain deck, I just wanted to know if it would also be the right deck to start, and the right deck which has potential winning games frequently if the SB and MB is tuned correctly and the knowledge of the player is decent enough.
I agree with most of this other than Elves. I find post-board we're in pretty good shape since we usually bring in 2 - 4 -X/-X effects and if used properly, it can win the game. Game one you should keep hands with the Punishing Fire and recursion because you can keep them from developing a board and they will eventually run out of gas.
In short, we're heavily favored against Miracles, Delver decks, and Shardless BUG and since Miracles is the most popular and most powerful deck, that's in itself a decent reason to play Jund. We're slightly favored against DnT and I'd say Elves is a 50/50, and lastly most combo decks and Eldrazi we're unfavored. I used to say we're pretty favored against DnT, but Prelate has changed that.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
What do you think about the infect MU? I've seen infect being present in my meta, so I'd like to know
I am actually inspired by your list, which I found on MTGgoldfish, it seems straightforward and I like 2 copies of Sylvan Library. I think I want to start by playing only 3 Wastelands at the beginning, because I don't know how much Blood Moon I am going to face. Sideboard wise I don't have a clue at all right now, but for now I would like to go with something like this:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
2 Bayou
2 Badlands
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Non Creature Spells [22]
4 Punishing Fire
4 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Sylvan Library
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Golgari Charm
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Choke
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
2 extra GY hate?? Null rod??
I want to start with a diverse and basic sideboard, so that means some -1/-1, some GY hate, some Enchantment and Artifact destruction, some extra discard and choke against blue stuff, Pithing needle as a versatile slot, but I am not sure about the ooze, isn't it too slow in legacy?
What would you put in the extra 2 slots in the SB, extra GY hate, Null Rod?
Is it ok to play 4 basics, or is it too much? I can surely go up to 4 wastelands any time, just thought I start by dodging Blood Moon/Wasteland a bit more, don't know how present Blood Moon in legacy is though.
I feel we are pretty favored against Infect. They have only 12 creatures we care about (4 Glistener Elf, 4 Blighted Agent, and 4 Inkmoth Nexus) and Punishing Fire and Abrupt Decay kill all of those. Wastelands you should save for Inkmoth Nexus. Basically recurrable removal is ridiculous against them. I've noticed some are now running 2 Spellskite in the SB to counter us a bit, but even then you can kill it pretty easily and go back to killing their dudes. Again, they have very few threats. Also be sure to kill during your turn so they have to waste protection spells rather than use then during their combat where they get the bonus pumps.
That seems fine. I've been playing that main deck for over 5 years now. I think *maybe* I added the 2nd Sylvan somewhere between then and now, but that's it. The rest has been stable for years now and I've been very happy with it. I know I could run Bolts, but I'd rather run 4 Abrupt Decay, 4 Punishing Fire, and more Hymn to Tourach. Those are usually what get lowered for bolts. I might start running 2 bolts if DnT starts becoming a problem with its Prelates on 2, but right now the Toxic Deluges in the SB seem to be enough.
The Scavenging Ooze is for GY-based decks, but also decks that will side in RIP against us. Goyf becomes a 0/1, but Ooze will always be at least a 2/2 (i.e. a slow clock). Basically Ooze is dual purpose since it helps with GY decks, but also against Miracles, which will side in RIP. It also destroys Elves after you kill all their dudes and provide a little life gain against Burn (which we are unfavored against).
That's fine too. I know folks run 3 with 2 swamps and no Mountain, but that basic Mountain has gotten me out of trouble a ton of times. Without it you can get wasted out of Red sources. Groves are a priority for them to remove (any good player saves their Wastelands for our Groves) and once they see how little Red you have, they will attack your Badlands too. With a basic Mountain you're protected against all that.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
@chaos21 hm, so maybe its a good idea to run a couple of Sudden Shock in the side if I face quite a bit of Infect?
@Dissidiaanatheme Wow, thx for your guide on the MUs, really appreciate it. So if I happend to have quite a bit of combo and eldrazi in my meta (in fact I don't know yet as I didn't play yet, but just assuming) besides the fact that it would not make much sense to play the deck and it would be better to switch to something else, is there a way I can really focus on these MUs? Beside Hymn MB, what can I have in my sideboard against them?
Thanks for sharing your insights, it helps kinda get an idea of how the deck is positioned overall and lets me focus on what I'll need if I face my meta. How do you tackle the Combo and Eldrazi MU? Just ignore? Or dedicate some SB slots. What do you think are the best SB options available against Combo and Eldrazi?
Do you think Chains of Mephistopheles is a good choice against Combo? Against which MUs would you also side this card in? Card seems great, but unbelievably expensive. Other than that, thanks for your tips, apreciate it!
Alright, I think I want 2 Surgicals in the SB to begin with. Then I'll see where it goes. Pithing Needle and Golgari Charm are also in my mind for the SB, seems great. Thanks for the tips!