If this is a good place to talk about this, I'll say that I absolutely love it. It's not THAT aggro, but you know the original Aggro Loam deck also isn't. I've been trying to shove Knight into my Aggro Loam builds for a while now until I just gave up on it and ran Tin Fins at this same tournament, but I may sleeve this build up now instead.
My thoughts on changes to the list are minimal, because it's really already got everything. Chalice for combo, utility land searching, utility out of the sideboard, etc. I would probably want to bring Bojuka Bog into the main for all the decks it's good against right now, maybe for the forest since you have Moxes anyway. I think I'd replace the Thoughtseizes with Mindbreak Traps to bring in against storm decks. And maybe a 1-of Vexing Shusher or Boseiju in the board to make sure our Devastating Dreams resolves against blue creature decks like Merfolk and RUG Delver (and to a lesser extent, Esper Stoneblade).
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
Currently Running:
:symb::symu::symg: BUG Tempo
:symb::symg::symw: JUNK
:symg::symr::symb: JUND
Currently Building:
:symu::symw: Miracle Control
:symb::symu::symr: ANT
If this is a good place to talk about this, I'll say that I absolutely love it. It's not THAT aggro, but you know the original Aggro Loam deck also isn't. I've been trying to shove Knight into my Aggro Loam builds for a while now until I just gave up on it and ran Tin Fins at this same tournament, but I may sleeve this build up now instead.
My thoughts on changes to the list are minimal, because it's really already got everything. Chalice for combo, utility land searching, utility out of the sideboard, etc. I would probably want to bring Bojuka Bog into the main for all the decks it's good against right now, maybe for the forest since you have Moxes anyway. I think I'd replace the Thoughtseizes with Mindbreak Traps to bring in against storm decks. And maybe a 1-of Vexing Shusher or Boseiju in the board to make sure our Devastating Dreams resolves against blue creature decks like Merfolk and RUG Delver (and to a lesser extent, Esper Stoneblade).
I've been messing around with Jeff Hooglands 75 card list and love it. It is certainly not for beginners as the decision making is very critical for victory. The chalices give enough time to fight off combo decks with all their cantrips to allow a big knight to beat them down, but its still not an easy matchup. This deck destroys fair decks and its very well suited with the current meta of rug, bug, and blade decks all over the place.
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--Beware the pale horse, and the man that rode him was death and Hell followed with him.
--Today I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
Jeff Hoogland is a boss i really like watching him pilot this deck. and have made some changes to my MD from his continued wins with this archetype.
QUSTION: burning wish helps shore up numbers in the deck giving more pseudo oppertunities to get your LFTL / DD ect but ...
what about GLITTERING WISH?
just an idea. thinking on other cards i wanted in my wishboard and was considering meta reasons. here is a refined list of what i could find for glittering wish targets.
Hi everyone, I'm thinking about getting into Loam, both Jund and 4c versions. But before I do that I'd like to know what are the main pros and cons of each deck and which match-ups are really bad for these decks. I assume, Burn is a liability. What else?
Thanks in advance
First of all, AggroLoam (Jund colours) and Jeff's (4c Loam) are built in completely different style. Classical AggroLoam is just more aggro and Jeff's list is just more control. Both decks have problems with Show & Tell - Jeff's list has the answer in the form of Karakas (which is still too slow tutored by KoTR) or some wish options, in classical list you can rely only on your SB (discard or Ensnaring Bridge). Simmilar problem is with Elves. Jeff's list is much slower with dealing with the small guys but can wish for some answers (especially vs natural order). Aggro Loam version is easy to ride with elves but is weak vs NO version. I think that classic version is better vs BUG and BladeControl. You don't have to care about counters on your wishes, and Seismic Assault is rather a GG.
Sorry for my english
Does the Chalice help a lot against some gravehate against Loam like Surgical, Relic and Extirpate as well as the combo cantrips? With less one drops how does one easily play around Daze and the like with 2-3 cost spells?
Jared, I guess chalice of the void is too strong to be left behind. Chalice for 1 destroys at least half the decks in legacy nowadays. I would take off the 1cc spells and put chalice and mox diamond as it acelerates the deck (you may really cast something T1, best case scenario a chalice of the void), the land discard isnt a bad drawback and it dodges devastating dreams and wasteland
I took 3rd made a couple changes then took first in the last Legacy event I played in. I made a couple edits after the last tournament and ended up with this. I might cut 1 punishing fire for the 4th decay and 1 burnwillows for a taiga.
I have not play tested but have come up with this after a bit of brainstorming. The mountains could be turned to badlands allowing the helixes to be turned into abrupt decays but that may be too greedy. Trades bobs for stoneforge package and has a backup combo with scapeshift as long as you hit 6 lands. Even before that you could shift into some wastelands or color fixing while boosting any terravores and crushers.
What yall think?
Not at all, it starts to be competetive once again. We can see two loams in top8 on GP Lille. It is the Niklas Kronberger build. He won Prague Etertnal in June with his loam deck.
Not at all, it starts to be competetive once again. We can see two loams in top8 on GP Lille. It is the Niklas Kronberger build. He won Prague Etertnal in June with his loam deck.
I actually did see this! Unfortunately I've heard that this deck sometimes just dies to itself, much like MUD (the other deck I was considering to build).
Why does this thread get no love at all? Carsten has recommended it, Schnonneger has recommended it, and it has put up high finishes despite low pilot numbers at GP Lille, Ovinogeddon, and the latest MKM series. C'mon, guys!
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4x eternal witness
4x Knight of the reliquary
4x terrageddon
Spells - 28
2x armageddon
4x grisly salvage
4x life from the loam
3x abrupt decay
3x cabal therapy
2x crucible of worldss
2x exploration
4x mox diamond
Lands - 24
4x windswept heath
4x verdant catacombs
4x bayou
4x savannah
4x wasteland
2x horizon canopy
1x dryad arbor
1x treetop village
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
If this is a good place to talk about this, I'll say that I absolutely love it. It's not THAT aggro, but you know the original Aggro Loam deck also isn't. I've been trying to shove Knight into my Aggro Loam builds for a while now until I just gave up on it and ran Tin Fins at this same tournament, but I may sleeve this build up now instead.
My thoughts on changes to the list are minimal, because it's really already got everything. Chalice for combo, utility land searching, utility out of the sideboard, etc. I would probably want to bring Bojuka Bog into the main for all the decks it's good against right now, maybe for the forest since you have Moxes anyway. I think I'd replace the Thoughtseizes with Mindbreak Traps to bring in against storm decks. And maybe a 1-of Vexing Shusher or Boseiju in the board to make sure our Devastating Dreams resolves against blue creature decks like Merfolk and RUG Delver (and to a lesser extent, Esper Stoneblade).
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
:symb::symu::symg: BUG Tempo
:symb::symg::symw: JUNK
:symg::symr::symb: JUND
Currently Building:
:symu::symw: Miracle Control
:symb::symu::symr: ANT
The deck seems really solid. I read his tourny report on reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/1a33db/legacy_third_at_scg_indy_report/) but I'm curious to see how it fairs against Show and Tell decks.
--Today I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
QUSTION:
burning wish helps shore up numbers in the deck giving more pseudo oppertunities to get your LFTL / DD ect but ...
what about GLITTERING WISH?
just an idea. thinking on other cards i wanted in my wishboard and was considering meta reasons. here is a refined list of what i could find for glittering wish targets.
here is the latest version of Hooglands deck. for clarification it is amazing in action. lol
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Taiga
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Forgotten Cave
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
1 Nantuko Monastery
1 Savannah
1 Badlands
1 Forest
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Gaddock Teeg
INSTANTS and SORCERIES 17
4 Burning Wish
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
2 Devastating Dreams
2 Green Sun's Zenith
OTHER SPELLS 10
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
2 Sylvan Library
1 Life from the Loam
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Dreadbore
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
1 Perish
1 Shattering Spree
1 Slaughter Games
1 Thoughtseize
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=5381&d=231066
YUMA, AZ
First of all, AggroLoam (Jund colours) and Jeff's (4c Loam) are built in completely different style. Classical AggroLoam is just more aggro and Jeff's list is just more control. Both decks have problems with Show & Tell - Jeff's list has the answer in the form of Karakas (which is still too slow tutored by KoTR) or some wish options, in classical list you can rely only on your SB (discard or Ensnaring Bridge). Simmilar problem is with Elves. Jeff's list is much slower with dealing with the small guys but can wish for some answers (especially vs natural order). Aggro Loam version is easy to ride with elves but is weak vs NO version. I think that classic version is better vs BUG and BladeControl. You don't have to care about counters on your wishes, and Seismic Assault is rather a GG.
Sorry for my english
Delver was a pretty easy matchup.
I saw alot of Mavrick and Elves around me. but didnt get to play those matchups
1x Bayou
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
3x Forgotten Cave
2x Mountain
3x Taiga
2x Tranquil Thicket
1x Volrath's Stronghold
4x Wasteland
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Barbarian Ring
1x Barren Moor
4x Countryside Crusher
3x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman
2x Devastating Dreams
1x Eternal Witness
4x Gamble
1x Genesis
4x Life from the Loam
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Seismic Assault
2x Bojuka Bog
3x Diabolic Edict
2x Firespout
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Mindbreak Trap
1x Perish
2x Shattering Spree
Jared, I guess chalice of the void is too strong to be left behind. Chalice for 1 destroys at least half the decks in legacy nowadays. I would take off the 1cc spells and put chalice and mox diamond as it acelerates the deck (you may really cast something T1, best case scenario a chalice of the void), the land discard isnt a bad drawback and it dodges devastating dreams and wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
2 Barren Moor
2 Bayou
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Scrubland
2 Taiga
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Savannah
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Tarmogoyf
Instants & Sorceries
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
2 Green Sun's Zenith
Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
Planeswalkers
3 Liliana of the Veil
Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Choke
2 Golgari Charm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
2x Badlands
1x Bayou
3x Bloodstained Mire
2x Forgotten Cave
1x Mountain
2x Taiga
2x Tranquil Thicket
4x Wasteland
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Barbarian Ring
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Swamp
2x Terravore
4x Countryside Crusher
4x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman
2x Scavenging Ooze
Sorcery
2x Devastating Dreams
2x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Life from the Loam
Instants
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Punishing Fire
Enchantments
2x Seismic Assault
2x Ashen Rider
2x Bojuka Bog
2x Choke
1x Firespout
4x Red Elemental Blast
2x Shattering Spree
2x Toxic Deluge
I have not play tested but have come up with this after a bit of brainstorming. The mountains could be turned to badlands allowing the helixes to be turned into abrupt decays but that may be too greedy. Trades bobs for stoneforge package and has a backup combo with scapeshift as long as you hit 6 lands. Even before that you could shift into some wastelands or color fixing while boosting any terravores and crushers.
What yall think?
4x Arid Mesa
1x Forgotten Cave
2x Mountain
4x Plateau
4x Taiga
1x Tranquil Thicket
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4x Wasteland
4x Wooded Foothills
Artifacts
1x Batterskull
4x Mox Diamond
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Countryside Crusher
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Terravore
Instants
4x Lightning Helix
Enchantments
2x Seismic Assault
Sorceries
2x Devastating Dreams
4x Life from the Loam
2x Scapeshift
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Choke
4x Red Elemental Blast
3x Rest in Peace
2x Shattering Spree
Ok, thanks for the info.
I actually did see this! Unfortunately I've heard that this deck sometimes just dies to itself, much like MUD (the other deck I was considering to build).