does any version of this deck have any history of running a burning wish sideboard?
i have more prior experience to playing the old aggro loam which use to run them. a few match ups yesterday i wanted to wish for reverent silence and virtues ruin to get rid of control's blood moon and death and texas's board.
I've never seen this deck with a Wishboard, but that's a pretty interesting idea.
is baord wishing good or bad in this sort of deck?
My guess is that wishboarding isn't particularly good in this deck. The reason is twofold: Dredging a Burning Wish is bad for us, and the sideboard is already pretty tight.
A wishboard would require us to dedicate 3-4 slots in the maindeck (for Burning Wish) and probably another 5-8 slots in the sideboard to make the wishboard worth it. I think we probably have the flexibility in the maindeck, but those spots in the sideboard are pretty important.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
I started playing Top (smooth draws, control dredges) to address the problem of losing SB cards at inconvienient opportunities. Against match-ups where you suspect Blood Moon, I try and fetch the Forest first, especially if a Mox is available since it allows you to ignore the enchantment for the purposes of Loam. Otherwise, a pre-emptive EE may be required, depending on the matchup. Painter is unfavorable in general, and from experience I can play out, around and under Blood Moon.
It does take practice. Against RiP, same general rules of not wasting cards/resources. Locally, when my meta turned heavy DnT, I started freerolling Volcanic Fallout. I got tired of dealing with the matchup.
i saw Taigam's Scheming in khans, despite being a sorcery I was kind of thinking this card could help dig through the deck more? i got that feeling in the back of my mind that its colliding with intuition though.
but looking at it it feels more comparable to the digging potential of careful study or faithless looting than a tutor spell like intuition.
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
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I think the idea is decent, I like that it's selective milling. I find that I'm not really lacking in card selection though. Especially only going 5 deep. This is nice in that you can nicely set up draws/dredges. Also, I think top is just better at this.
obviously this put up a good result but I don't often see decks like this. I like the wishes, and I like the ability to run forces. So, the question is: what do you guys like and dislike about this?
I think the idea is decent, I like that it's selective milling. I find that I'm not really lacking in card selection though. Especially only going 5 deep. This is nice in that you can nicely set up draws/dredges. Also, I think top is just better at this.
obviously this put up a good result but I don't often see decks like this. I like the wishes, and I like the ability to run forces. So, the question is: what do you guys like and dislike about this?
FarmVille type decks like this one are interesting to me and I've thought about playing a list like this one at some point. Like the list from PT Paris earlier this year, it has some interesting lines along with access to FoW etc.
obviously this put up a good result but I don't often see decks like this. I like the wishes, and I like the ability to run forces. So, the question is: what do you guys like and dislike about this?
Things I like:
1) Doesn't auto-lose to fast combo (Belcher, Spanish Inquisition, etc.) because it runs Forces.
2) Being able to fight over a Crop Rotation resolution (again, via Forces or Spell Pierce).
3) The Clique and Karakas interaction.
4) Wishboard. It effectively acts as Crop Rotations #5-7, artifact and enchantment removal, and Emrakul-proofing, among other things.
5) Supreme Verdict. Gets rid of everything on a board that can't be contained by Maze of Ith alone, and it can't be stopped by counterspells.
6) Flagstones turn Crop Rotation into value.
7) Jace, the Mind Sculptor. This deck is much board-control than resource denial. Consequently, Jace becomes a pretty powerful weapon here. Once he hits the board, it's hard to stop him.
8) This deck is resistant to Rest in Peace.
Things I don't like:
1) Brainstorm and Ponder are a poor substitute for Gamble and Tolaria West (even though they play better with fetchlands).
2) Very, very light on resource denial. Only 2xWasteland? No Ports? If you don't find your Forces quickly, combo is just going to roll over you.
3) No Tabernacle?! No excuses for this.
4) No Mox Diamond. It's mana acceleration, mana fixing, and the land you lose isn't gone forever. What's not to like?
5) No Glacial Chasm. Sure, Peacekeeper is in the Wishboard, but I prefer my Moat not die to Bolt.
6) No Academy Ruins. Eventually, you're going to regret not being able to recur the Engineered Explosives in the sideboard. It may not take out Emrakul, but unlike Supreme Verdict, it takes out noncreature permanents.
7) No PunishingGrove. Sure, it's slower and more clunky than Supreme Verdict on creatures, but you can't throw a Verdict at your opponent or their Planeswalkers.
8) No Ensnaring Bridge. Even though it's a fragile permanent, it's still a pretty versatile card, stopping both Emrakul and hordes of zombies.
9) No Zuran Orb. Okay, I realize that not everybody runs Zuran Orb. Still, I imagine this deck auto-loses to Burn decks.
10) No Krosan Grip. Again, this deck probably auto-loses to CounterTop and Blood Moon.
I think this version of lands is a meta-call. I think it probably plays much better against a creature-heavy meta, and it has a better matchup against fast combo. That said, CounterTop and Blood Moon are everywhere, and it's less versatile of a deck.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
I think the idea is decent, I like that it's selective milling. I find that I'm not really lacking in card selection though. Especially only going 5 deep. This is nice in that you can nicely set up draws/dredges. Also, I think top is just better at this.
obviously this put up a good result but I don't often see decks like this. I like the wishes, and I like the ability to run forces. So, the question is: what do you guys like and dislike about this?
FarmVille type decks like this one are interesting to me and I've thought about playing a list like this one at some point. Like the list from PT Paris earlier this year, it has some interesting lines along with access to FoW etc.
thats an interesting blue deck, but it doesn't chain together like 's loam does. I think disruption is good but if you mill any of those threats they can't easily be recurred. the blue instants would look ok to me if that deck atleast had snapcaster mage to get them back. being a land deck it should be able to ramp into enough mana to hard cast force of will. for that matter pact of negation might bepreferable, so your not losing blue cards, and the imbalance of land to blue cards, maybe that deck is balanced alright, i'm not certain, but just feels like that could be a common complication that pact of negation wouldn't have to deal with. spell pierce can do work as well for the fast combo protection.
as far as jace goes, i'd run him too in blue lands, should be able to keep him protected with maze and other lands.
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
I ran JTMS in my SB for a long time, and he put in work but that's one of the main things I love about Lands: I can tailor an exotic 76 with choices to exploit holes. Sparki, for example, had Savannah and white in his list for a long while - when I had white in my list for Thalia and Geist of Saint Traft. There were many local matches I closed due to complete unpreparedness for that hexproof 2/2.
I love that about Lands. You can go all kinds of crazy.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
I ran JTMS in my SB for a long time, and he put in work but that's one of the main things I love about Lands: I can tailor an exotic 76 with choices to exploit holes. Sparki, for example, had Savannah and white in his list for a long while - when I had white in my list for Thalia and Geist of Saint Traft. There were many local matches I closed due to complete unpreparedness for that hexproof 2/2.
I love that about Lands. You can go all kinds of crazy.
I'm going to go back to white in a little bit. I miss Thalia. I also played geist in my sideboard for a while as well. I've even played junk like Slaughter Games in the board. Along with white, I've also toyed around with Ajani Vengeant.
I mean heck, I played this deck, if only for a short while, with maindeck Ashiok. It was actually pretty silly.
But yeah, lands can get out of control with weird brews, and that's why it's my pet deck.
Would fallout be better than pyroclasm in that case? all of DnT creatures are 2 toughness at most (unless they are still running Brimaz for some reason)
EDIT: and they dont run counterspells
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So two Opalescence and a Humility walk into a bar, I forget the rest of the joke but your sanctioned judge is a scrub.
Would fallout be better than pyroclasm in that case? all of DnT creatures are 2 toughness at most (unless they are still running Brimaz for some reason)
EDIT: and they dont run counterspells
Fallout had the occasional use against Delver, where the cannot be countered was relevant, over Pyroclasm. My reasoning for using it anyway. You could use just Pyroclasm if you wanted. Volcanic Fallout is also an instant.
Would fallout be better than pyroclasm in that case? all of DnT creatures are 2 toughness at most (unless they are still running Brimaz for some reason)
EDIT: and they dont run counterspells
If you're looking for a board wipe of sorts, I've toyed around with the following:
The dude that gives me fits is True-name. I usually can make it through, but it causes so much grief, and awkward lines.
In which matchup? Usually against a UWR Delver opponent, I keep them from reaching three mana and never see it. I tend to always prioritize destroying any Delver deck's manabase. Seven colored sources along with Wasteland isn't a real mana base against us.
Would fallout be better than pyroclasm in that case? all of DnT creatures are 2 toughness at most (unless they are still running Brimaz for some reason)
EDIT: and they dont run counterspells
If you're looking for a board wipe of sorts, I've toyed around with the following:
If you're looking for straight D&T hate, I'd go with something like Virtue's Ruin.
i've been curious about a similar situation, would toxic deluge work just as good?
------------------------
you mentioned you tried geist of saint traft in the sideboard, waht about true-name nemesis? I i figure if blue builds use tolaria west its not a far fetch to run true name.
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--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Would fallout be better than pyroclasm in that case? all of DnT creatures are 2 toughness at most (unless they are still running Brimaz for some reason)
EDIT: and they dont run counterspells
If you're looking for a board wipe of sorts, I've toyed around with the following:
If you're looking for straight D&T hate, I'd go with something like Virtue's Ruin.
i've been curious about a similar situation, would toxic deluge work just as good?
------------------------
you mentioned you tried geist of saint traft in the sideboard, waht about true-name nemesis? I i figure if blue builds use tolaria west its not a far fetch to run true name.
We could run True-Name, but geist is a much faster clock against decks like miracles and combo.
As for Toxic, it could work, but I often find myself wanting every point of life I can get, especially if I need to glacial chasm or something.
i suppose there is also the chance one might not draw it in time to have enough life to spend for the board wipe?
double black for damnation on the other hand. I haven't really kept track of how often thats available.
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
I've been playing Phelix's 2x Smokestack, 1x Worm Harvest build. The build is excellent, but it's made me realize the value of EE. I've gone back to 2x main since it's key vs swarms (Tabernacle alone hasn't been enough), he proof, and TNN. Urborg has been simply amazing.
I still feel I'm too quick to get caught up in mana denial in games where a more aggressive combo approach would have been better. The new U/R Pyromancer Cruise build comes to mind. In which matchups do you 4c / 5c pilots find it most difficult to read?
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Do we need 4 Burnwillows? or is that personal preference? I have Three so far.
Also I have seen a a bunch of lists running 3 Windswept Heath over Wooded Foothills in the green/red versions, is there a specific reason for that? or did they just use what was on hand? With no white cards or lands
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I've never seen this deck with a Wishboard, but that's a pretty interesting idea.
My guess is that wishboarding isn't particularly good in this deck. The reason is twofold: Dredging a Burning Wish is bad for us, and the sideboard is already pretty tight.
A wishboard would require us to dedicate 3-4 slots in the maindeck (for Burning Wish) and probably another 5-8 slots in the sideboard to make the wishboard worth it. I think we probably have the flexibility in the maindeck, but those spots in the sideboard are pretty important.
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UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
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It does take practice. Against RiP, same general rules of not wasting cards/resources. Locally, when my meta turned heavy DnT, I started freerolling Volcanic Fallout. I got tired of dealing with the matchup.
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
but looking at it it feels more comparable to the digging potential of careful study or faithless looting than a tutor spell like intuition.
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Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
I'd like to hear thoughts on lists like this:
http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/74933
obviously this put up a good result but I don't often see decks like this. I like the wishes, and I like the ability to run forces. So, the question is: what do you guys like and dislike about this?
FarmVille type decks like this one are interesting to me and I've thought about playing a list like this one at some point. Like the list from PT Paris earlier this year, it has some interesting lines along with access to FoW etc.
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
Things I like:
1) Doesn't auto-lose to fast combo (Belcher, Spanish Inquisition, etc.) because it runs Forces.
2) Being able to fight over a Crop Rotation resolution (again, via Forces or Spell Pierce).
3) The Clique and Karakas interaction.
4) Wishboard. It effectively acts as Crop Rotations #5-7, artifact and enchantment removal, and Emrakul-proofing, among other things.
5) Supreme Verdict. Gets rid of everything on a board that can't be contained by Maze of Ith alone, and it can't be stopped by counterspells.
6) Flagstones turn Crop Rotation into value.
7) Jace, the Mind Sculptor. This deck is much board-control than resource denial. Consequently, Jace becomes a pretty powerful weapon here. Once he hits the board, it's hard to stop him.
8) This deck is resistant to Rest in Peace.
Things I don't like:
1) Brainstorm and Ponder are a poor substitute for Gamble and Tolaria West (even though they play better with fetchlands).
2) Very, very light on resource denial. Only 2xWasteland? No Ports? If you don't find your Forces quickly, combo is just going to roll over you.
3) No Tabernacle?! No excuses for this.
4) No Mox Diamond. It's mana acceleration, mana fixing, and the land you lose isn't gone forever. What's not to like?
5) No Glacial Chasm. Sure, Peacekeeper is in the Wishboard, but I prefer my Moat not die to Bolt.
6) No Academy Ruins. Eventually, you're going to regret not being able to recur the Engineered Explosives in the sideboard. It may not take out Emrakul, but unlike Supreme Verdict, it takes out noncreature permanents.
7) No Punishing Grove. Sure, it's slower and more clunky than Supreme Verdict on creatures, but you can't throw a Verdict at your opponent or their Planeswalkers.
8) No Ensnaring Bridge. Even though it's a fragile permanent, it's still a pretty versatile card, stopping both Emrakul and hordes of zombies.
9) No Zuran Orb. Okay, I realize that not everybody runs Zuran Orb. Still, I imagine this deck auto-loses to Burn decks.
10) No Krosan Grip. Again, this deck probably auto-loses to CounterTop and Blood Moon.
I think this version of lands is a meta-call. I think it probably plays much better against a creature-heavy meta, and it has a better matchup against fast combo. That said, CounterTop and Blood Moon are everywhere, and it's less versatile of a deck.
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UHigh TideU
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thats an interesting blue deck, but it doesn't chain together like 's loam does. I think disruption is good but if you mill any of those threats they can't easily be recurred. the blue instants would look ok to me if that deck atleast had snapcaster mage to get them back. being a land deck it should be able to ramp into enough mana to hard cast force of will. for that matter pact of negation might bepreferable, so your not losing blue cards, and the imbalance of land to blue cards, maybe that deck is balanced alright, i'm not certain, but just feels like that could be a common complication that pact of negation wouldn't have to deal with. spell pierce can do work as well for the fast combo protection.
as far as jace goes, i'd run him too in blue lands, should be able to keep him protected with maze and other lands.
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Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
I love that about Lands. You can go all kinds of crazy.
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
Do you mind if I sig this?
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
I'm going to go back to white in a little bit. I miss Thalia. I also played geist in my sideboard for a while as well. I've even played junk like Slaughter Games in the board. Along with white, I've also toyed around with Ajani Vengeant.
I mean heck, I played this deck, if only for a short while, with maindeck Ashiok. It was actually pretty silly.
But yeah, lands can get out of control with weird brews, and that's why it's my pet deck.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
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EDIT: and they dont run counterspells
Fallout had the occasional use against Delver, where the cannot be countered was relevant, over Pyroclasm. My reasoning for using it anyway. You could use just Pyroclasm if you wanted. Volcanic Fallout is also an instant.
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
If you're looking for a board wipe of sorts, I've toyed around with the following:
Rolling Earthquake
Sudden Demise
Firespout
Oblivion Stone
Pyroclasm
If you're looking for straight D&T hate, I'd go with something like Virtue's Ruin.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
In which matchup? Usually against a UWR Delver opponent, I keep them from reaching three mana and never see it. I tend to always prioritize destroying any Delver deck's manabase. Seven colored sources along with Wasteland isn't a real mana base against us.
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
i've been curious about a similar situation, would toxic deluge work just as good?
------------------------
you mentioned you tried geist of saint traft in the sideboard, waht about true-name nemesis? I i figure if blue builds use tolaria west its not a far fetch to run true name.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
We could run True-Name, but geist is a much faster clock against decks like miracles and combo.
As for Toxic, it could work, but I often find myself wanting every point of life I can get, especially if I need to glacial chasm or something.
WGURBLands!WGURB
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double black for damnation on the other hand. I haven't really kept track of how often thats available.
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Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
I still feel I'm too quick to get caught up in mana denial in games where a more aggressive combo approach would have been better. The new U/R Pyromancer Cruise build comes to mind. In which matchups do you 4c / 5c pilots find it most difficult to read?
My 1994 Magic Cube
Japanese cards on eBay -- Legacy, Modern, EDH, Cube.
Also I have seen a a bunch of lists running 3 Windswept Heath over Wooded Foothills in the green/red versions, is there a specific reason for that? or did they just use what was on hand? With no white cards or lands