I liked some parts of that sideboard quite a bit. My love-hate relationship with Dark Confidant leads to me cutting it with frequency. I find Crucible too strong a permanent to do without, and think 3 Abrupt Decay is too many. But aside from that, I'd roll the rest of the list almost as is for testing purposes. My next non local legacy event is the SCG Open in Portland in June, unless I can convince friends to do a weekend drive to San Fran. (We are in Boise, ID.)
Ok working with cards i have only, this is the new list, after a few tweaks, still has mindslaver as well i love it, maybe after alot of games and i'm used to the deck i will drop it.
I'm wondering if i should replace Mishra's Factory with Creeping Tar Pit, drop a Mox Diamond for the 2nd EE and in the SB drop 1 Dark Confidant and bring in a Phyrexian Revoker? I also wouldn't mind trying to fit in 1 if not 2 Abrupt Decay.
Thanks.
EDIT - I also know i need to put Chalice of the Void in here somewhere, when i play in a Legacy tourny it's bound to be local and there is one guy who runs burn and that is all he runs so Chalice helps there.
Jody Keith took 1st with an interesting R/G Lands. SCG has mislabeled it as Jund Depths, but it is definitely Combo Lands with a few nice tweaks. He took the deck up to 61 cards adding in Ghost Quarter, Horizon Canopy, Faithless Looting and Sylvan Library to the mix. It gives the deck a little more leeway if it doesn't hit the ground running while also making it less susceptible to folding without Loam.
On another note, what do you think of Commune with the gods in place of Intuition? It can dig for Exploration, and fill your graveyard with lands and potentially Loam in the first turns of the game. Ok it is pretty random compared to Intuition as it only digs 5 instead of your library but this could lead to a more enchantment based list like:
I have been playing this for a couple weeks. I've dropped blue completely so no Tolaria West. List is Gwrb but I did't managed to find room for Crop and feel like I am missing a way to tutor a specific answer at a particular time like Glacial Chasm or Tabernacle. Recycle is a nice draw engine, but each time I played it I decked myself or won with less than 5 cards in my library Not sure about Moat neither.
Ok working with cards i have only, this is the new list, after a few tweaks, still has mindslaver as well i love it, maybe after alot of games and i'm used to the deck i will drop it.
I'm wondering if i should replace Mishra's Factory with Creeping Tar Pit, drop a Mox Diamond for the 2nd EE and in the SB drop 1 Dark Confidant and bring in a Phyrexian Revoker? I also wouldn't mind trying to fit in 1 if not 2 Abrupt Decay.
Thanks.
EDIT - I also know i need to put Chalice of the Void in here somewhere, when i play in a Legacy tourny it's bound to be local and there is one guy who runs burn and that is all he runs so Chalice helps there.
In my opinion, you have too many things in your sideboard that do the same thing. 3x Sphere, 1x Thalia, and 1x Trinisphere is too much. Replace some of that with Chalice. Chalice for 1 makes High Tide an auto-win and it REALLY hurts a lot of other decks, like Show and Tell and some of the Delver variants. I find our deck does the worst against combo and best against aggro, and so I stack my board for combo, with 3x Chalice and 3x something else (currently shifting to Phrexian Revoker/Trinisphere mix)
Ok working with cards i have only, this is the new list, after a few tweaks, still has mindslaver as well i love it, maybe after alot of games and i'm used to the deck i will drop it.
I'm wondering if i should replace Mishra's Factory with Creeping Tar Pit, drop a Mox Diamond for the 2nd EE and in the SB drop 1 Dark Confidant and bring in a Phyrexian Revoker? I also wouldn't mind trying to fit in 1 if not 2 Abrupt Decay.
Thanks.
EDIT - I also know i need to put Chalice of the Void in here somewhere, when i play in a Legacy tourny it's bound to be local and there is one guy who runs burn and that is all he runs so Chalice helps there.
In my opinion, you have too many things in your sideboard that do the same thing. 3x Sphere, 1x Thalia, and 1x Trinisphere is too much. Replace some of that with Chalice. Chalice for 1 makes High Tide an auto-win and it REALLY hurts a lot of other decks, like Show and Tell and some of the Delver variants. I find our deck does the worst against combo and best against aggro, and so I stack my board for combo, with 3x Chalice and 3x something else (currently shifting to Phrexian Revoker/Trinisphere mix)
Chalice at 1 isn't an auto-win against tide. I've had chalice @ 1 and a trinisphere out and lost to an EOT Cunning Wish -> Rebuild -> Combo.
I'm really unsure on chalice right now, with crop rotation being so good. I have been happier with sphere effects, although there was a game last tournament where my singleton chalice won me the game against delver.
Chalice at 1 isn't an auto-win against tide. I've had chalice @ 1 and a trinisphere out and lost to an EOT Cunning Wish -> Rebuild -> Combo.
I'm really unsure on chalice right now, with crop rotation being so good. I have been happier with sphere effects, although there was a game last tournament where my singleton chalice won me the game against delver.
I'm thinking i need it mainly at 2 for Price of Progress, though there is a guy who only plays standard and legacy, all he runs in legacy is high tide so i'm thinking for me a chalice or 2 will be a good thing.
Worship combined with a man land maybe 2 incase they remove 1 to keep me at 1 life if i haven't landed the chalice against burn?
Chalice at 1 isn't an auto-win against tide. I've had chalice @ 1 and a trinisphere out and lost to an EOT Cunning Wish -> Rebuild -> Combo.
I'm really unsure on chalice right now, with crop rotation being so good. I have been happier with sphere effects, although there was a game last tournament where my singleton chalice won me the game against delver.
I'm thinking i need it mainly at 2 for Price of Progress, though there is a guy who only plays standard and legacy, all he runs in legacy is high tide so i'm thinking for me a chalice or 2 will be a good thing.
Worship combined with a man land maybe 2 incase they remove 1 to keep me at 1 life if i haven't landed the chalice against burn?
Zuran orb is your best out to burn.
Just know if you chalice 2, it cuts off your loams.
Think those changes to my list will make me a deck i'm happy enough to play for awhile and then make changes to it after i see how it runs.
Undecided on Thalia in the SB, she's also a part of my plans for hatebears in Modern so i may remove her from the SB to and keep the 3rd bob yet or add in a single Abrupt Decay.
Also i just went back through my list, the 2 Tolaria West seems no good for me only running 1 Tropical unless i keep 1 Tolaria soley for the 2nd U needed for the other part of Tolaria.
Chalice for 1 cuts off 24 cards from high tide.... alright, it may not be an auto-win, but it certainly makes things a LOT harder. We can still get our engine running pretty easily without crop rotation and we would have lots and lots of time.
The 13th place deck in the last SCG Open (Alex Daily) had 4 chalice in the board. I think Chalice is definitely worthy of board slots. (though I still debate between sphere of resistance vs trinisphere)
If I had to choose between SoR and 3-Sphere, I'd take the former. Less crippling, but applicable to a wider variety of matchups.
3-ball also doesn't effect cards like Show and tell, Big Jace, Blood Moon, Cunning Wish, Intuition etc. that is a big deal in some matchups. Having Sneak attack being 5 mana is big game.
If I had to choose between SoR and 3-Sphere, I'd take the former. Less crippling, but applicable to a wider variety of matchups.
3-ball also doesn't effect cards like Show and tell, Big Jace, Blood Moon, Cunning Wish, Intuition etc. that is a big deal in some matchups. Having Sneak attack being 5 mana is big game.
True. They also stack, which is big. Trinisphere doesn't do much in multiples.
This is probably a stretch, but does Dack Fayden have a home here? I'm thinking purely for the looting ability every turn to dig through the deck faster to get a loam in the yard and/or to hit the combo faster. The deck is tight on space, I know, but do you think it would be better than intuition?
This is probably a stretch, but does Dack Fayden have a home here? I'm thinking purely for the looting ability every turn to dig through the deck faster to get a loam in the yard and/or to hit the combo faster. The deck is tight on space, I know, but do you think it would be better than intuition?
IMHO its not better then Intuition as that card actually gets Loam and the two other cards you need.
I just feel like its a worse Jace, TMS. If I was going to slot a planeswalker into lands its going to be Jace probably as he does everything that the lands deck needs a card to do.
I am not sure if the other two effects Dack Fayden has are going to be any good with how both versions of lands are structured currently.
i agree that dack is almost surely worse than intuition. however, if you made me play a planeswalker in lands, this is EASILY my pick. lands likes looting more than brainstorming and 1UR is significantly easier to make than 2UU. i've been playing 2 faithless looting in my control/midrange-y lands build for about a month and i really, really like the card.
maybe he'll crop-up in some weird RUG depths deck a la kennen haas's jund depths list with blue instead of black, but as far as true lands decks, i don't see it happening.
yeah but he doesn't do anything else relevant besides looting and if I wanted a looting effect I would just play faithless Looting because the interaction with Loam is great as you have stated. Jace has three other modes on him that are relevant, and just a better value card in general.
I think if your building a new reimagined RUG land list I would be taking a look at kiora as she at least protects herself.
Just to clarify, in case I am confused, but isn't the standard lands list at this point RUG? Yes, some include W or B in the sideboard only, but isn't the traditional list at this point RUG lands, with combo lands being GR?
Pre-Deathrite Shaman the lands was normally was 4 color less red (E-Tutor Lands). After the printing of RTR the lands core has been adjusted to a more RUG manabase to support punishing fire. Not everyone has moved off the older lists.
4 color lists are the norm for control lists, you need to splash a color to access better sideboard cards, whether that is black or white is player preference. Some people use 5-Color
RG builds are usually two colors but you see a third color splash a lot.
Intuition/4+color control lists are RUG plus either white for hatebears/E-tutor and/or black for Dark Confidant/Abrupt Decay. Mox Diamond, Karakas and Bojuka Bog blur the lines a little bit.
Then there's RG combo lands with Crop Rotation and Gamble.
Then Jund lands, with Entomb, Lilianas, Smallpox and 0-1 Explorations.
Then there are Gx Maritocracy lists built around churning out Marit Lage tokens on t2-3. They have cards like Not of this World, Into the North and occasionally splash for tutors and Vampire Hexmage.
Then there's Farmville, which is Bant list with a Living Wish board, cantrips and FoW.
A lot of sub-archetypes were spawned with the rules change and Thespian Stage
Intuition/4+color control lists are RUG plus either white for hatebears/E-tutor and/or black for Dark Confidant/Abrupt Decay. Mox Diamond, Karakas and Bojuka Bog blur the lines a little bit.
Right finally got some testing against a decent Burn deck, 3 games and it wasnt as big of an issue as i was thinking it was going to be.
G1
First turn, Zuran Orb, Land, Exploration, Land, Chalice set at 1. Game goes along until i make token.
G2
Getting beat until i top deck Zuran Orb, have 2 Explorations out and Crucible of Worlds, opp scoops when he realises i'm just able to sack land and recur them every turn gaining life faster than he can burn me.
G3
Very slow game, Sphere of Resistance and Ports slow opp down, i go about 10 turns just tapping Ports, sacing land for life and recurring with Loam, holding a Crucible of Worlds, Thespians Stage is out, play Intuition, offer opp Depths, Ensnaring Bridge or Punishing Fire, he gives me Bridge, i play Crucible, play Depths, make token, opp scoops.
We moved onto Belcher after this as he was sick of playing lands, over all a match up i thought was going to be awful was very manageable.
I need to do more testing, kept forgetting about the Mox Diamond giving any color and i was finding it difficult to keep track of everything on the table.
Right finally got some testing against a decent Burn deck, 3 games and it wasnt as big of an issue as i was thinking it was going to be.
G1
First turn, Zuran Orb, Land, Exploration, Land, Chalice set at 1. Game goes along until i make token.
G2
Getting beat until i top deck Zuran Orb, have 2 Explorations out and Crucible of Worlds, opp scoops when he realises i'm just able to sack land and recur them every turn gaining life faster than he can burn me.
G3
Very slow game, Sphere of Resistance and Ports slow opp down, i go about 10 turns just tapping Ports, sacing land for life and recurring with Loam, holding a Crucible of Worlds, Thespians Stage is out, play Intuition, offer opp Depths, Ensnaring Bridge or Punishing Fire, he gives me Bridge, i play Crucible, play Depths, make token, opp scoops.
We moved onto Belcher after this as he was sick of playing lands, over all a match up i thought was going to be awful was very manageable.
I need to do more testing, kept forgetting about the Mox Diamond giving any color and i was finding it difficult to keep track of everything on the table.
Keep in mind that if you assembly Glacial Chasm and Thespian Stage you can sequence the lands to be a hard lock without loss of life against burn. Just kill them with Punishing Fire.
Keep in mind that if you assembly Glacial Chasm and Thespian Stage you can sequence the lands to be a hard lock without loss of life against burn. Just kill them with Punishing Fire.
Please explain, i'm just not seeing it.
I found myself with Chasm in hand and not wanting to play it or playing it to sac a land to add a third i'd want back from the GY with Loam, then sacing itself for 2 life before it could start eating my life.
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List here got 13th at SCG. Bob-less board.
3/1 split on stage depths too, instead of the 2/2 some of us have been running. Makes Intuition stronger maybe?
No crucible either.
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Legacy Lands Primer
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1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Academy Ruins
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Karakas
1x Windswept Heath
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Tropical Island
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Dark Depths
2x Tolaria West
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Taiga
2x Thespian's Stage
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
3x Maze of Ith
4x Wasteland
4x Rishadan Port
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Mindslaver
1x Manabond
1x Intuition
3x Punishing Fire
3x Crop Rotation
4x Mox Diamond
4x Exploration
4x Life from the Loam
1x Trinisphere
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Pithing Needle
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Zuran Orb
2x Krosan Grip
3x Sphere of Resistance
3x Dark Confidant
I'm wondering if i should replace Mishra's Factory with Creeping Tar Pit, drop a Mox Diamond for the 2nd EE and in the SB drop 1 Dark Confidant and bring in a Phyrexian Revoker? I also wouldn't mind trying to fit in 1 if not 2 Abrupt Decay.
Thanks.
EDIT - I also know i need to put Chalice of the Void in here somewhere, when i play in a Legacy tourny it's bound to be local and there is one guy who runs burn and that is all he runs so Chalice helps there.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=66414
He wrote a report on The Source: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?4020-Deck-43-Lands&p=806764&viewfull=1#post806764
On another note, what do you think of Commune with the gods in place of Intuition? It can dig for Exploration, and fill your graveyard with lands and potentially Loam in the first turns of the game. Ok it is pretty random compared to Intuition as it only digs 5 instead of your library but this could lead to a more enchantment based list like:
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Humility
1 The Abyss
1 Moat
1 Recycle
1 Nether Void
with an heavy creatures sideboard like:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Primeval Titan
I have been playing this for a couple weeks. I've dropped blue completely so no Tolaria West. List is Gwrb but I did't managed to find room for Crop and feel like I am missing a way to tutor a specific answer at a particular time like Glacial Chasm or Tabernacle. Recycle is a nice draw engine, but each time I played it I decked myself or won with less than 5 cards in my library Not sure about Moat neither.
Simply brainstorming here, feedback welcomed
In my opinion, you have too many things in your sideboard that do the same thing. 3x Sphere, 1x Thalia, and 1x Trinisphere is too much. Replace some of that with Chalice. Chalice for 1 makes High Tide an auto-win and it REALLY hurts a lot of other decks, like Show and Tell and some of the Delver variants. I find our deck does the worst against combo and best against aggro, and so I stack my board for combo, with 3x Chalice and 3x something else (currently shifting to Phrexian Revoker/Trinisphere mix)
Chalice at 1 isn't an auto-win against tide. I've had chalice @ 1 and a trinisphere out and lost to an EOT Cunning Wish -> Rebuild -> Combo.
I'm really unsure on chalice right now, with crop rotation being so good. I have been happier with sphere effects, although there was a game last tournament where my singleton chalice won me the game against delver.
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Legacy Lands Primer
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I'm thinking i need it mainly at 2 for Price of Progress, though there is a guy who only plays standard and legacy, all he runs in legacy is high tide so i'm thinking for me a chalice or 2 will be a good thing.
Worship combined with a man land maybe 2 incase they remove 1 to keep me at 1 life if i haven't landed the chalice against burn?
Zuran orb is your best out to burn.
Just know if you chalice 2, it cuts off your loams.
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Alright after some more thought ive decided to do this
Main
-1 Mox
+1 EE
SB
-1 Bob/Thalia
-1 EE
-1 Pithing Needle
+1 Chalice
+2 Phyrexian Revoker
Think those changes to my list will make me a deck i'm happy enough to play for awhile and then make changes to it after i see how it runs.
Undecided on Thalia in the SB, she's also a part of my plans for hatebears in Modern so i may remove her from the SB to and keep the 3rd bob yet or add in a single Abrupt Decay.
On Entomb why doesn't this see play anymore?
Also i just went back through my list, the 2 Tolaria West seems no good for me only running 1 Tropical unless i keep 1 Tolaria soley for the 2nd U needed for the other part of Tolaria.
The 13th place deck in the last SCG Open (Alex Daily) had 4 chalice in the board. I think Chalice is definitely worthy of board slots. (though I still debate between sphere of resistance vs trinisphere)
Trinisphere is golden against Dredge and Omniscience decks. Beyond that, it's basically a slower Sphere of Resistance.
If I had to choose between SoR and 3-Sphere, I'd take the former. Less crippling, but applicable to a wider variety of matchups.
3-ball also doesn't effect cards like Show and tell, Big Jace, Blood Moon, Cunning Wish, Intuition etc. that is a big deal in some matchups. Having Sneak attack being 5 mana is big game.
True. They also stack, which is big. Trinisphere doesn't do much in multiples.
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IMHO its not better then Intuition as that card actually gets Loam and the two other cards you need.
I just feel like its a worse Jace, TMS. If I was going to slot a planeswalker into lands its going to be Jace probably as he does everything that the lands deck needs a card to do.
I am not sure if the other two effects Dack Fayden has are going to be any good with how both versions of lands are structured currently.
maybe he'll crop-up in some weird RUG depths deck a la kennen haas's jund depths list with blue instead of black, but as far as true lands decks, i don't see it happening.
I think if your building a new reimagined RUG land list I would be taking a look at kiora as she at least protects herself.
4 color lists are the norm for control lists, you need to splash a color to access better sideboard cards, whether that is black or white is player preference. Some people use 5-Color
RG builds are usually two colors but you see a third color splash a lot.
Why do you think your confused?
Then there's RG combo lands with Crop Rotation and Gamble.
Then Jund lands, with Entomb, Lilianas, Smallpox and 0-1 Explorations.
Then there are Gx Maritocracy lists built around churning out Marit Lage tokens on t2-3. They have cards like Not of this World, Into the North and occasionally splash for tutors and Vampire Hexmage.
Then there's Farmville, which is Bant list with a Living Wish board, cantrips and FoW.
A lot of sub-archetypes were spawned with the rules change and Thespian Stage
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=339129
I run Krosan Grip and Sphere Of Resistance instead, skipping the splash. I own the duals; it's a matter of preference for me. Of course I do run Mox Diamond, Karakas and Bojuka Bog all main.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
G1
First turn, Zuran Orb, Land, Exploration, Land, Chalice set at 1. Game goes along until i make token.
G2
Getting beat until i top deck Zuran Orb, have 2 Explorations out and Crucible of Worlds, opp scoops when he realises i'm just able to sack land and recur them every turn gaining life faster than he can burn me.
G3
Very slow game, Sphere of Resistance and Ports slow opp down, i go about 10 turns just tapping Ports, sacing land for life and recurring with Loam, holding a Crucible of Worlds, Thespians Stage is out, play Intuition, offer opp Depths, Ensnaring Bridge or Punishing Fire, he gives me Bridge, i play Crucible, play Depths, make token, opp scoops.
We moved onto Belcher after this as he was sick of playing lands, over all a match up i thought was going to be awful was very manageable.
I need to do more testing, kept forgetting about the Mox Diamond giving any color and i was finding it difficult to keep track of everything on the table.
Keep in mind that if you assembly Glacial Chasm and Thespian Stage you can sequence the lands to be a hard lock without loss of life against burn. Just kill them with Punishing Fire.
Please explain, i'm just not seeing it.
I found myself with Chasm in hand and not wanting to play it or playing it to sac a land to add a third i'd want back from the GY with Loam, then sacing itself for 2 life before it could start eating my life.