Deck felt solid. I really like the new cycling land.
Grats as well Sparki! Can you eleborate on Sheltered Thicket's usage? I understand you can save Loam from Surgical, use it to draw extra cards, use it for extra Loam's, etc.. My question is more like...when do you decide to fetch/gamble for it? Or do you just wait till you draw of dredge it?
Could you write out how the ANT match went? Thanks a lot in advance!
Thicket was great because it's fetchable. When you already had loam and exploration going or something like molten vortex, it's a great target to grab to help play around surgical, as well as just plow through your library to find what you need. I'd probably wait to fetch or dredge it and save the gambles for something more important.
My ANT matchup was honestly pretty lucky.
G1 I have a T3 kill, and he combos out the turn before in a great Ad Naus turn. He knows I have a crop rotation in hand to bog, but makes me play my hand out by casting cabal therapy, which forces me to rotate bog. In response to the bog trigger, he casts a cabal ritual to still hit threshold and it gives him the required mana to combo out.
G2, I mull down to 6, and I lead with a T1 crop rotation for ancient tomb -> Thorn of Amethyst. He plays a volcanic, pays life and mana and probes me. I waste him and he doesn't draw a land for 6 turns and dies.
G3, I have a T1 revoker naming LED. I'm lacking green mana for a crop rotation but eventually draw one and hit him with a ghost quarter on his only basic swamp. I rip loam off the top and ghost another island leaving him with one island left. He's at 11 life and is forced to go for it because I have him ghost locked the next turn otherwise, but he is 1 mana short of a tutor chain to kill me at 18 life, so is forced to Ad Naus and dies to it. (I surgical petals in response to the Ad Naus to not give him immediate mana sources). He had an echoing truth in his hand and was thinking about hitting revoker the turn before, but he didn't think he would be able to go off and declined to. I'll take it!
I was having a lot of success with this deck only to now be frustrated because I have 0-2'd three tournaments in a row for a total of a 0-6 streak. I need some help and advice getting through.
Losses are from
3 Burn decks
2 Sneak and Show decks
1 U/B reanimator
There has to be something for the deck to get through combo and burn. I just can't seem to get wins against these decks. What's more frustrating is the pilots of these decks weren't even good players.
My list is very vanilla:
4 Crop rotation
4 Explore
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
1 Molten vortex
1 Manabond
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian Stage
3 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
2 Taiga
1 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Fetch lands
1 Tranquil Thicket
Sideboard -
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Drop of Honey
1 Barbarian rRing
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Pithing Needle
Congrats John! Thanks for the tournament report as well Was really nice to read!
Thanks!
Congrats Sparki on your tournament as well!!
Quote from Epeirogeny »
I was having a lot of success with this deck only to now be frustrated because I have 0-2'd three tournaments in a row for a total of a 0-6 streak. I need some help and advice getting through.
Losses are from
3 Burn decks
2 Sneak and Show decks
1 U/B reanimator
There has to be something for the deck to get through combo and burn. I just can't seem to get wins against these decks. What's more frustrating is the pilots of these decks weren't even good players.
Here's what I do against those decks.
Burn
I will quote the first Burn player I faced when playing lands. This match is simply a race, you get your token out before I can burn you, and you win.
This is a half truth, but honestly I've had better luck with it than the alternative which is simply harder to pull off.
Race - I've had very good success with this, probably 70% win rate
Keep a fast combo hand, mulligan down to 4 or 5 if necessary.
Make the token on your turn if they have less than 2 mana ready, or their upkeep if they have plenty of mana handy. The idea is to avoid Price of Progress as much as you can; and maybe they'll cast it at the end of your turn so you can make the token in response to take 4 less damage.
That's pretty much it. Goblin Guide can work in your favor with this strategy. The alternative is to setup a Glacial Chasm lock. I've found that unless you have Manabond + Life from the Loam + Thespian's Stage that this takes too long to establish, and the moment you finally go to attack with Merit Leige, they'll just instant speed deal the rest of the damage. Altenratively don't make the token at all if you setup the lock, and try to Punishing Fire + Grove of the Burnwillows them out. This is pretty difficult to pull off though, and isn't my first choice.
Sneak and Show
This isn't a good match by any means. One of the reasons why some people, like myself, started playing Warping Wail. It's great at countering Show and Tell. Regardless, Karakas, fast combo, and going after their red sources is the best plan. If you can destroy all of their red sources, then you'll avoid Sneak Attack and Blood Moon. Straight up mana denial is also good, but difficult to pull off because they can just Lotus Petal + Ancient Tomb. That said I've won even after being attacked by Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, sacrificed 6 permanents, and taken 15 damage, simply because I cluttered the board with lands, had loam going, and could rebuild after they sacrificed Emrakul from Sneak Attack. I've also managed to win after going from no permanents, 5 life, to a simple top deck war with my opponent. This is extremely unlikely though.
Reanimator
Make sideboard space for 2x Surgical Extraction it's definitely worth it. I would suggest -1 Krosan Grip, -1 Barbarian Ring. I haven't had much luck with barbarian ring, so I just stopped playing it. The match I wanted it the most against was Death and Taxes, but in side board they have Rest in Peace, virtually making barbarian ring worthless. Not sure how everyone else feels about it.
Try to keep hands with Maze of Ith, or chasm lock, both are almost good enough to get you there. Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog is pretty good as well, but often they have enough redundancy that it's not good enough, or more realistically they'll simply make you discard it before it's useful. That said, in sideboard games I try to Gamble for Surgical Extraction as soon as possible.
Quick combo or chasm lock is your only outs to burn. If your meta is infested with it, I'd play a copy of Zuran Orb somewhere in the 75. You can chasm lock burn and ghost quarter them out until you're 100% sure it's safe, no need to open it up when they still have mana and get zapped by instants.
Against Sneak and Show, it's pretty abysmal. G1 you want to cut them off Red, either with GQ or Port, and be able to find karakas. Postboard it's a toss up since they also bring in blood moons against you, but Warping Wail, Grip and Revokers are amazing here. You can also quick combo them and they have no way to deal with a marit lage token.
Tidespout tyrant is pretty much the only card you really care about pre-board. Chasm lock and Karakas get you through pretty much anything else and they can't interact with maze of ith well either.
I hope they bring the g/u version of the cycling dual. Could replace one or both tropicals.
Question here as well: Whats your experience with Barbarian Ring? I still like it but it seems I can never really use it. One RIP and BR is doomed like PF. PF surgextracted, but loam is extracted even earlier so no return. Prelate on 2 out, I can use EE. So is the space for BR worth it?
Barbarian Ring keeps moving for me. Sometimes in Sideboard, Sometimes in Main, Sometimes out of the 75. I'm not sure how I like it. Sometimes it is a great removal or win con land. Other times it is useless. I kind of like it in the main at first, but it is usually boarded out due to incoming graveyard removal. However, it is needed for Sanctum Prelate depending on your D&T meta. I like playing as if it is a big event though, and thus always like to have it somewhere as a toolbox piece.
What's everyone's opinion on Jody Keith's Lands list that top 8'd GP Vegas (link here)? I was a bit confused by the lack of Rishadan Port and wondered if people have been considering moving away from it.
Yea, there has been a definite shift away from port towards GQ. As I understand it now, you want to play 8-9 mana denial lands max (thanks for that guideline Sparki!) and 4 GQ + 4 wasteland seems to be the default choice now. I am still using 4 wasteland, 3 GQ, 2 Port in my list but am starting to see the appeal of just going 4 GQ.
His deck was quick combo focused. Quite liked it. 2 cycling lands seems excessive to me. I would have probably kept the bog mainboard personally instead of tranquil.
11-4 at GP Vegas, good enough for two pro points. Deck felt solid aside from a few times I mulled to oblivion but that's variance for you. Can try to get a tournament report up later.
11-4 at GP Vegas, good enough for two pro points. Deck felt solid aside from a few times I mulled to oblivion but that's variance for you. Can try to get a tournament report up later.
Fantastic job Sparki! Looking forward to the tournament report.
I won one of the GPTs the day before. Then I proceeded to do extremely poorly at the tournament, the worst I've done in a long time (5-4), didn't make day 2.
Day 0: GPT 4-0
2-0 UR Delver
2-0 Death and Taxes
2-1 Elves
2-0 Portent Miracles
Not sure why this list isn't online. I guess they only post some of them? It ended at 11pm (or so) on the 14th.
Day 1: GP 5-4
Bye
Bye
2-0 UB Friedman list (Grindy win)
1-2 Elves (This made me quite sad, he had some crazy draws)
0-2 Storm (T2 both games with discard)
2-0 Burn (Won through fast combo)
1-2 Turbo Depths (I lost this due to my unfamiliarity with the matchup, was surprised by some cards and missed the win in G3 because of it)
2-0 UR Delver (Won through fast combo)
1-2 Aggro Loam
Day 2: GP Legacy Double Up 3-0-1
2-0 Grixis Delver
1-1 (tie) UB Reanimator
2-0 Grixis Delver
1-0 (no one won in turns in G2) Portent Miracles
I've been picking up bits and pieces for this deck ever since I got a steal on a damaged Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, and I'm getting close to purchasing the last of the deck. Here's the list I'm currently looking at building:
I'm looking for consistent combos but not necessarily going for them every game, so a little in between the controlling lists and the turbo lists. I'd have gone for the full control, but the Trops were way out of my budget and I really want to finish the deck sooner rather than later. That being said, what, if anything, would you change about my current list?
I've been picking up bits and pieces for this deck ever since I got a steal on a damaged Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, and I'm getting close to purchasing the last of the deck. Here's the list I'm currently looking at building:
I'm looking for consistent combos but not necessarily going for them every game, so a little in between the controlling lists and the turbo lists. I'd have gone for the full control, but the Trops were way out of my budget and I really want to finish the deck sooner rather than later. That being said, what, if anything, would you change about my current list?
I would just go RG then. There is no point playing the EE or crucible without trops and academy ruins since you have no way to lock them. I would up the thespian to 4, up the gamble to 4 and probably play 1 more fetch since you're on 3 grove. Not sure about the sea gate too. Seems slow.
~Myth
Edit: missed the 3rd fetch. Sorry. Either a 4th grove or 4th punishing fire or both. Playing 61 cards in lands is just fine imo.
2 Zuran orb in side seems high too unless you have a lot of burn. I have almost a 40% burn meta and tbh i've dropped the zuran orb plan. Against them, fast combo is your out. Without tolaria west, zuran orb gets much worse too.
An ancient tomb in my sideboard has been amazing so far.
Also, there's a huge discussion about DropOfHoney in the RG build. Does anyone see potential for RUG (or what's left of RUG) as well?
Not sure exactly what you mean.
I think RUG is a solid option with great potential - it's been less popular since the invention of RG and will probably never put up the same numbers.
If you are wondering if Drop has potential in RUG, I don't think it's a good fit. RUG has EE and would therefore rather use SB slots for other things imo.
The deck felt great. I didn't have any byes in the tournament so I knew I was in for a long haul of a day. I bought a pack foil ONS windswept heath to replace my judge foothills but wasn't able to play it for the event since I had already registered. Darn. I ate a little bit of a bagel sandwich and we were off to the races. I last minute replaced revokers with trackers the night before as an extra hedge against the fair decks, they ended up being great and I missed playing them. Revokers are great in a lot of ways but I figured I was overboarding for the combo MU.
R1 Jund 2-1
G1: Fetches basic swamp -> DRS, fetches basic forest plays a second DRS and Hymns, I draw dead to DRS and die.
G2: Punishing Fire keeps everything dead with goyfs held off with maze. He needles and I copy his bayou in response with stage and he names stage. I play Depths and copy it on his EOT and kill him.
G3: I have the turn 2 kill with T1 exploration T2 stage depths go.
R2 TES 0-2
G1: He cantrips a bunch and probes me 3 times before burning wish into a telemin performance. :|
G2: He mulls to 6, I gamble T1 for a thorn. He rips dark ritual off the top and I die to an Ad Nauseum T1.
R3 Elves 2-0
G1: Punishing Fire all the guys, ghost quarter all the basics. Play tabernacle.
G2: I have a sick hand which goes T1 Mox diamond + stage Pfire your guy, T2 grove Pfire your guy, T3 Dark Depths and kill you.
R4 ANT 2-0
G1: We play draw go for a bit and I start to ghost quarter him out. He realizes he can't wait too much longer and goes for it, and in response to a dark petition with 6 mana floating from LEDs, I rotate bog him since I figure that's the best line I have to cut him off spell mastery and PiF. I expect to lose to Ad Naus but he didn't have it maindeck and tendrils me for 14 before passing. I also noted he discarded empty the warrens to the LEDs, so on my turn I rotate again, sacrificing my bog, cast Loam and bog him again and he scoops without any wincons left.
G2: He T1 cantrips, I T1 have Land, Exploration, Tomb, Thorn, followed by T2 sphere and then a 20/20 shortly after.
R5 Elves 0-2
G1: I mull hard this game, down to a super shaky 5 and get hoofed real easily.
G2: I mull to 6 and keep an insane hand if I can find a green source, scry to the bottom. I don't find it till it's too late and with chasm in play with Marit lage ready, he drains me for 12 with double deathrite and 4 untap effects after an insane double glimpse turn.
R6 BUG Delver 2-1
G1: I get beat up by double delver and a couple wastelands, force and daze on the loams keep me off action enough to take the game.
G2: He has an early Leovold taxing me out but I take this crazy line where I triple waste + GQ him out letting him draw a bunch of cards but then play tabernacle which kills both of his creatures including Leo. This lets me keep him off mana in spite of the card advantage and i take it.
G3: He has an early Sylvan Library which is great in this MU, but I grind out a 20/20 in turns before some goyfs eat me.
R7 BUG Delver 2-0
G1: Punishing Fire the DRS and delvers and ghost quarter keeps his board clean while I make a 20/20.
G2: Kill his early threat and draw go favors me while I have an active Loam and he fails to find action.
R8 Sneak and Show 2-1
G1: I ghost quarter his basic island 2 times and he gets a third basic so I put him on Omni or sneak. He petals to play a sneak and passes and I try to cut him off mana but he sneaks an emrakul in and drops me to 5. I try to rebuild with a topdecked Karakas but he draws into a second red source and another emrakul.
G2: He plays an early Sneak with no open mana and I Krosan Grip it and Surgical them away. I find Karakas for the show and we play draw go for a while before he blood moons me. I grip it away and make a 20/20.
G3: He mulls to 6 on the play and just says go. I lead with the intent to turn 3 combo but he petal Preordains into basic mountain and city of traitors -> blood moon before i get there. I gamble for Grip and keep it, Grip the moon and make a lage.
R9 BUG Delver 2-0
G1: Wasteland + 2 Ghost Quarter destroy this matchup early, with Loam and tabernacle sealing the deal.
G2: I get low down to 4 from goyf and angler along with wastelands on the mazes but rotate twice to make a surprise Marit lage on his EOT to steal it.
R10 Red and Taxes 0-2
G1: T3 magus of the moon followed by sword of fire and ice + jitte ends this one quick.
G2: We play a grindy game but a chalice on 2 shuts off fire and Loam, and he eventually gets a SoFaI on a flickerwisp while I don't have enough ammo for molten vortex and die quickly.
R11 Dragon Stompy 2-1
G1: He turn 1 chalices followed by double magus of the moon and a blood moon. Nope.jpg
G2: He opens with turn 0 Leyline of the void, T1 City of traitors, chrome mox, blood moon. I have a mox diamond and basic forest and play draw go while he plays double ensnaring bridge and a quicksmith rebel letting the bridge shoot. I gamble for EE and get to EE3 away in a glorious turn then make a lage to take it.
G3: He has an early moon as well as a Chandra, I mise a Grip in my hand for a long time while trying to set up a turn where I can Grip + make token in the same turn. He thankfully flips two lands off Chandra over a few turns which gives me the time I need to safely make the play I was hoping for.
R12 BUG Delver 1-2
G1: I mull to the saddest 4 cards ever, my 7 was do nothing lands + 2 mox, my 6 was the same minus a land, my 5 was gamblex2, EE, Loam,Exploration. It was not a game.
G2: I do what lands does best and deny everything he has before making a 20/20 at 7 life.
G3: He has double goyf and stops my EE with null rod, and also has 2 DRS + 3 wastelands. Yikes.
R13 Burn 2-0
G1: I buy myself two turns from double goblin guide double swiftspear with chasm, long enough for me to set up combo.
G2: My opponent gets land screwed on one land and is one point of damage short when I combo out.
R14 BUG Delver 2-0
G1: I mana deny him hard before locking him out with tabernacle. He scoops once my Loam resolves for double wasteland ghost quarter while he's on one land. He was actually playing 3 basics which was odd.
G2: He has turn 1 DRS followed by T2 bitterblossom which is annoying. I drop a little low on life keeping triple delver at bay with a maze and recurring pfire. I play a spe during a turn which he dazes which is great, because I crop rotate into a tabernacle and triple waste him cutting him down to 1 mana, while I pfire his only faerie each turn. I stabilize at 3 and he says he's had enough and packs it up.
R15 Infect 2-1
G1: My opponent leads tropical go which I waste. He plays foothills and passes which leads me to believe infect. I buy myself some extra time to buildup with chasm and he tries to become immense berserk me with it in play...? I end up ghost quartering all of his lands and tabernacling him out.
G2: He leads turn 1 tropical glistener elf. I wasteland his tropical and surgical all of them. Unfortunately his hand is fetch, invigorate x 2, brainstorm, so he fetches forest and hits me for 9 and I don't have an answer for the next swing. I had a GQ and tabby in hand so if he didn't kill me there he was most likely dead with no mana producing lands besides pendelhaven and inkmoth. I took a risk keeping the hand.
G3: I make a turn 2 Marit lage but he crop rotations for Karakas. Noble hierarch get a few beats in, but I eventually draw Loam to remake the beast and take him down.
I end 11-4, one win from prizing, but good enough for two pro points and a lot of fun.
Takesaways:
Wail wasn't super great during the event. I did board them in quite a bit but I think I'll try something else in the meantime. I currently went -2 wail + ancient grudge + pithing needle.
Tracker is still great. I didn't miss revokers too much.
Great!!!
Double Exploration in my turn, double sphere in your turn. Or you SnT that Emrakul? I have one as well and attack with it. Grislbrand... I draw 7 as well. You needle Stage? No problem...
A 0 CotV in your turn...
And if it gets destroyed... Academy Ruin it back...
Tell me what i have to do not like... Besides the mana I need to really use it...
Well, I will try it as a 1-of main, but I can replace my CotV main. Could be difficult to find a spot in most of the decks. We will see if it is worth it. You could also try to replace a Stage...
But I also ask the more experienced players here, what they think.
That's what I thought until it was pointed out I misread the text. Exiling our own graveyard is a deal breaker.
Regarding Mirage Mirror, it looks like a cool card. But I'm not inclined to experiment with it myself. The mana investment is high and the effect ends at EoT. Seems good but not great; and there are already better cards lining up to get into my 61 card list!
Hey folks. I checked the rules and didn't see anything about not posting spoilers, but just in case, I'll put it all in spoiler text.
Also, disclaimer: I'm new to lands. I've finally just bought my Dark Depths so I can finish out the deck (well, Tabernacle is a way off for me, but hey, what can I do?). Anything I post that sounds stupid should be blamed on inexperience with the deck.
Solemnity
2W
Enchantment
Players can't get counters.
Counters can't be put on artifacts, creatures, enchantments, or lands.
Is there any option now to splash White in this deck? With this enchantment, Dark Depths played immediately becomes a Marit Lage. Glacial Chasm becomes a better Energy Field. White also has great sideboard cards, though I'll not pretend to know what the deck needs that white could provide.
Opposing cards that this enchantment hoses are things like Chalice of the Void, Hangarback Walker/Walking Ballista, Umezawa's Jitte, Ratchet Bomb and Engineered Explosives, Infect as a deck. Sure, some of these examples are much faster than a turn 2 or 3 enchantment, but it's there.
White also gives us Swords for matchups that need it, but I might guess Lands can get a Glacial Chasm or Maze of Ith for things like Eldrazi or Death's Shadow or Knight of the Reliquary or Goyf by simply Gambling for it. Knight of the Reliquary gives an out to your opponent's removal, but at least it makes them work to get their Fatal Push online. probably not what Lands wants.
Cons to this new card is the obvious comparison to Vampire Hexmage. The Vampire can kill planeswalkers, which Solemnity doesn't touch.
So, thoughts? I think this represents a fork in the evolution of Lands, but I don't know enough to know if it's a sustainable evolution at all.
I really hope this doesn't break any forum rules I didn't see. I would hope people would reply in spoiler text if there is a real aversion to blatant, plaintext spoilers on the forums. I haven't been on MTGSalvation for many years. Thanks!
Maybe someone else mentioned it below, and maybe you already know this, but it might help someone to be reminded that one can always get around Prelate by spending more of the same colored mana into Engineered Explosives. For example, if Prelate is set to 3 and you want to kill it, you can cast EE for something like GGRB, so the CMC=4 but Sunburst=3.
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Dark Depths
1 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Sheltered Thicket
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Thespian's Stage
2 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Crop Rotation
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Exploration
3 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
1 Manabond
1 Molten Vortex
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Krosan Grip
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
Deck felt solid. I really like the new cycling land.
I played against:
R1: Bantblade? Deathblade? Whatever you want to call it. 2-0
R2: DnT 2-0
R3: RG Lands 2-0
R4: ANT 2-1
R5: DnT 2-0
R6/7: ID
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
Thicket was great because it's fetchable. When you already had loam and exploration going or something like molten vortex, it's a great target to grab to help play around surgical, as well as just plow through your library to find what you need. I'd probably wait to fetch or dredge it and save the gambles for something more important.
My ANT matchup was honestly pretty lucky.
G1 I have a T3 kill, and he combos out the turn before in a great Ad Naus turn. He knows I have a crop rotation in hand to bog, but makes me play my hand out by casting cabal therapy, which forces me to rotate bog. In response to the bog trigger, he casts a cabal ritual to still hit threshold and it gives him the required mana to combo out.
G2, I mull down to 6, and I lead with a T1 crop rotation for ancient tomb -> Thorn of Amethyst. He plays a volcanic, pays life and mana and probes me. I waste him and he doesn't draw a land for 6 turns and dies.
G3, I have a T1 revoker naming LED. I'm lacking green mana for a crop rotation but eventually draw one and hit him with a ghost quarter on his only basic swamp. I rip loam off the top and ghost another island leaving him with one island left. He's at 11 life and is forced to go for it because I have him ghost locked the next turn otherwise, but he is 1 mana short of a tutor chain to kill me at 18 life, so is forced to Ad Naus and dies to it. (I surgical petals in response to the Ad Naus to not give him immediate mana sources). He had an echoing truth in his hand and was thinking about hitting revoker the turn before, but he didn't think he would be able to go off and declined to. I'll take it!
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
Losses are from
3 Burn decks
2 Sneak and Show decks
1 U/B reanimator
There has to be something for the deck to get through combo and burn. I just can't seem to get wins against these decks. What's more frustrating is the pilots of these decks weren't even good players.
My list is very vanilla:
4 Crop rotation
4 Explore
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
1 Molten vortex
1 Manabond
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian Stage
3 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
2 Taiga
1 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Fetch lands
1 Tranquil Thicket
Sideboard -
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Drop of Honey
1 Barbarian rRing
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Pithing Needle
RG Lands
B Mono Black Pox
C MUD
Vintage:
UBRGW Dredge
Thanks!
Congrats Sparki on your tournament as well!!
Here's what I do against those decks.
Burn
I will quote the first Burn player I faced when playing lands. This match is simply a race, you get your token out before I can burn you, and you win.
This is a half truth, but honestly I've had better luck with it than the alternative which is simply harder to pull off.
Race - I've had very good success with this, probably 70% win rate
That's pretty much it. Goblin Guide can work in your favor with this strategy. The alternative is to setup a Glacial Chasm lock. I've found that unless you have Manabond + Life from the Loam + Thespian's Stage that this takes too long to establish, and the moment you finally go to attack with Merit Leige, they'll just instant speed deal the rest of the damage. Altenratively don't make the token at all if you setup the lock, and try to Punishing Fire + Grove of the Burnwillows them out. This is pretty difficult to pull off though, and isn't my first choice.
Sneak and Show
This isn't a good match by any means. One of the reasons why some people, like myself, started playing Warping Wail. It's great at countering Show and Tell. Regardless, Karakas, fast combo, and going after their red sources is the best plan. If you can destroy all of their red sources, then you'll avoid Sneak Attack and Blood Moon. Straight up mana denial is also good, but difficult to pull off because they can just Lotus Petal + Ancient Tomb. That said I've won even after being attacked by Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, sacrificed 6 permanents, and taken 15 damage, simply because I cluttered the board with lands, had loam going, and could rebuild after they sacrificed Emrakul from Sneak Attack. I've also managed to win after going from no permanents, 5 life, to a simple top deck war with my opponent. This is extremely unlikely though.
Reanimator
Make sideboard space for 2x Surgical Extraction it's definitely worth it. I would suggest -1 Krosan Grip, -1 Barbarian Ring. I haven't had much luck with barbarian ring, so I just stopped playing it. The match I wanted it the most against was Death and Taxes, but in side board they have Rest in Peace, virtually making barbarian ring worthless. Not sure how everyone else feels about it.
Try to keep hands with Maze of Ith, or chasm lock, both are almost good enough to get you there. Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog is pretty good as well, but often they have enough redundancy that it's not good enough, or more realistically they'll simply make you discard it before it's useful. That said, in sideboard games I try to Gamble for Surgical Extraction as soon as possible.
Keep in mind that I have Ancient Tomb and a Warping Wail main deck
Here's how I sideboard against BR Reanimator:
+2 Sphere of Resistance +2 Surgical Extraction +1 Warping Wail
-3 Punishing Fire, -1 Molten Vortex, -1 Grove of the Burnwillows
Here's how I sideboard against UB Reanimator
+4 Sphere of Resistance +2 Surgical Extraction +1 Warping Wail
-3 Punishing Fire, -1 Molten Vortex, -2 Grove of the Burnwillows, -1 Manabond
What does everyone else do against those decks?
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Against Sneak and Show, it's pretty abysmal. G1 you want to cut them off Red, either with GQ or Port, and be able to find karakas. Postboard it's a toss up since they also bring in blood moons against you, but Warping Wail, Grip and Revokers are amazing here. You can also quick combo them and they have no way to deal with a marit lage token.
Tidespout tyrant is pretty much the only card you really care about pre-board. Chasm lock and Karakas get you through pretty much anything else and they can't interact with maze of ith well either.
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Question here as well: Whats your experience with Barbarian Ring? I still like it but it seems I can never really use it. One RIP and BR is doomed like PF. PF surgextracted, but loam is extracted even earlier so no return. Prelate on 2 out, I can use EE. So is the space for BR worth it?
RG Lands
B Mono Black Pox
C MUD
Vintage:
UBRGW Dredge
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His deck was quick combo focused. Quite liked it. 2 cycling lands seems excessive to me. I would have probably kept the bog mainboard personally instead of tranquil.
Thoughts on the drop of honey sideboard?
~Myth
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Fantastic job Sparki! Looking forward to the tournament report.
I won one of the GPTs the day before. Then I proceeded to do extremely poorly at the tournament, the worst I've done in a long time (5-4), didn't make day 2.
Day 0: GPT 4-0
2-0 UR Delver
2-0 Death and Taxes
2-1 Elves
2-0 Portent Miracles
Not sure why this list isn't online. I guess they only post some of them? It ended at 11pm (or so) on the 14th.
Day 1: GP 5-4
Bye
Bye
2-0 UB Friedman list (Grindy win)
1-2 Elves (This made me quite sad, he had some crazy draws)
0-2 Storm (T2 both games with discard)
2-0 Burn (Won through fast combo)
1-2 Turbo Depths (I lost this due to my unfamiliarity with the matchup, was surprised by some cards and missed the win in G3 because of it)
2-0 UR Delver (Won through fast combo)
1-2 Aggro Loam
Day 2: GP Legacy Double Up 3-0-1
2-0 Grixis Delver
1-1 (tie) UB Reanimator
2-0 Grixis Delver
1-0 (no one won in turns in G2) Portent Miracles
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1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
2 Engineered Explosives
Enchantment (6)
4 Exploration
1 Manabond
1 Molten Vortex
Instant (7)
4 Crop Rotation
3 Punishing Fire
Land (33)
3 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Karakas
1 Sheltered Thicket
3 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Trinisphere
2 Zuran Orb
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Warping Wail
I'm looking for consistent combos but not necessarily going for them every game, so a little in between the controlling lists and the turbo lists. I'd have gone for the full control, but the Trops were way out of my budget and I really want to finish the deck sooner rather than later. That being said, what, if anything, would you change about my current list?
I would just go RG then. There is no point playing the EE or crucible without trops and academy ruins since you have no way to lock them. I would up the thespian to 4, up the gamble to 4 and probably play 1 more fetch since you're on 3 grove. Not sure about the sea gate too. Seems slow.
~Myth
Edit: missed the 3rd fetch. Sorry. Either a 4th grove or 4th punishing fire or both. Playing 61 cards in lands is just fine imo.
2 Zuran orb in side seems high too unless you have a lot of burn. I have almost a 40% burn meta and tbh i've dropped the zuran orb plan. Against them, fast combo is your out. Without tolaria west, zuran orb gets much worse too.
An ancient tomb in my sideboard has been amazing so far.
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I understand the revoker->tracker thing, because I always think about those for myself. But why cut the wails?
Also, there's a huge discussion about DropOfHoney in the RG build. Does anyone see potential for RUG (or what's left of RUG) as well?
Not sure exactly what you mean.
I think RUG is a solid option with great potential - it's been less popular since the invention of RG and will probably never put up the same numbers.
If you are wondering if Drop has potential in RUG, I don't think it's a good fit. RUG has EE and would therefore rather use SB slots for other things imo.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Dark Depths
1 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Sheltered Thicket
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Thespian's Stage
1 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Crop Rotation
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
1 Molten Vortex
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Krosan Grip
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Warping Wail
The deck felt great. I didn't have any byes in the tournament so I knew I was in for a long haul of a day. I bought a pack foil ONS windswept heath to replace my judge foothills but wasn't able to play it for the event since I had already registered. Darn. I ate a little bit of a bagel sandwich and we were off to the races. I last minute replaced revokers with trackers the night before as an extra hedge against the fair decks, they ended up being great and I missed playing them. Revokers are great in a lot of ways but I figured I was overboarding for the combo MU.
R1 Jund 2-1
G1: Fetches basic swamp -> DRS, fetches basic forest plays a second DRS and Hymns, I draw dead to DRS and die.
G2: Punishing Fire keeps everything dead with goyfs held off with maze. He needles and I copy his bayou in response with stage and he names stage. I play Depths and copy it on his EOT and kill him.
G3: I have the turn 2 kill with T1 exploration T2 stage depths go.
R2 TES 0-2
G1: He cantrips a bunch and probes me 3 times before burning wish into a telemin performance. :|
G2: He mulls to 6, I gamble T1 for a thorn. He rips dark ritual off the top and I die to an Ad Nauseum T1.
R3 Elves 2-0
G1: Punishing Fire all the guys, ghost quarter all the basics. Play tabernacle.
G2: I have a sick hand which goes T1 Mox diamond + stage Pfire your guy, T2 grove Pfire your guy, T3 Dark Depths and kill you.
R4 ANT 2-0
G1: We play draw go for a bit and I start to ghost quarter him out. He realizes he can't wait too much longer and goes for it, and in response to a dark petition with 6 mana floating from LEDs, I rotate bog him since I figure that's the best line I have to cut him off spell mastery and PiF. I expect to lose to Ad Naus but he didn't have it maindeck and tendrils me for 14 before passing. I also noted he discarded empty the warrens to the LEDs, so on my turn I rotate again, sacrificing my bog, cast Loam and bog him again and he scoops without any wincons left.
G2: He T1 cantrips, I T1 have Land, Exploration, Tomb, Thorn, followed by T2 sphere and then a 20/20 shortly after.
R5 Elves 0-2
G1: I mull hard this game, down to a super shaky 5 and get hoofed real easily.
G2: I mull to 6 and keep an insane hand if I can find a green source, scry to the bottom. I don't find it till it's too late and with chasm in play with Marit lage ready, he drains me for 12 with double deathrite and 4 untap effects after an insane double glimpse turn.
R6 BUG Delver 2-1
G1: I get beat up by double delver and a couple wastelands, force and daze on the loams keep me off action enough to take the game.
G2: He has an early Leovold taxing me out but I take this crazy line where I triple waste + GQ him out letting him draw a bunch of cards but then play tabernacle which kills both of his creatures including Leo. This lets me keep him off mana in spite of the card advantage and i take it.
G3: He has an early Sylvan Library which is great in this MU, but I grind out a 20/20 in turns before some goyfs eat me.
R7 BUG Delver 2-0
G1: Punishing Fire the DRS and delvers and ghost quarter keeps his board clean while I make a 20/20.
G2: Kill his early threat and draw go favors me while I have an active Loam and he fails to find action.
R8 Sneak and Show 2-1
G1: I ghost quarter his basic island 2 times and he gets a third basic so I put him on Omni or sneak. He petals to play a sneak and passes and I try to cut him off mana but he sneaks an emrakul in and drops me to 5. I try to rebuild with a topdecked Karakas but he draws into a second red source and another emrakul.
G2: He plays an early Sneak with no open mana and I Krosan Grip it and Surgical them away. I find Karakas for the show and we play draw go for a while before he blood moons me. I grip it away and make a 20/20.
G3: He mulls to 6 on the play and just says go. I lead with the intent to turn 3 combo but he petal Preordains into basic mountain and city of traitors -> blood moon before i get there. I gamble for Grip and keep it, Grip the moon and make a lage.
R9 BUG Delver 2-0
G1: Wasteland + 2 Ghost Quarter destroy this matchup early, with Loam and tabernacle sealing the deal.
G2: I get low down to 4 from goyf and angler along with wastelands on the mazes but rotate twice to make a surprise Marit lage on his EOT to steal it.
R10 Red and Taxes 0-2
G1: T3 magus of the moon followed by sword of fire and ice + jitte ends this one quick.
G2: We play a grindy game but a chalice on 2 shuts off fire and Loam, and he eventually gets a SoFaI on a flickerwisp while I don't have enough ammo for molten vortex and die quickly.
R11 Dragon Stompy 2-1
G1: He turn 1 chalices followed by double magus of the moon and a blood moon. Nope.jpg
G2: He opens with turn 0 Leyline of the void, T1 City of traitors, chrome mox, blood moon. I have a mox diamond and basic forest and play draw go while he plays double ensnaring bridge and a quicksmith rebel letting the bridge shoot. I gamble for EE and get to EE3 away in a glorious turn then make a lage to take it.
G3: He has an early moon as well as a Chandra, I mise a Grip in my hand for a long time while trying to set up a turn where I can Grip + make token in the same turn. He thankfully flips two lands off Chandra over a few turns which gives me the time I need to safely make the play I was hoping for.
R12 BUG Delver 1-2
G1: I mull to the saddest 4 cards ever, my 7 was do nothing lands + 2 mox, my 6 was the same minus a land, my 5 was gamblex2, EE, Loam,Exploration. It was not a game.
G2: I do what lands does best and deny everything he has before making a 20/20 at 7 life.
G3: He has double goyf and stops my EE with null rod, and also has 2 DRS + 3 wastelands. Yikes.
R13 Burn 2-0
G1: I buy myself two turns from double goblin guide double swiftspear with chasm, long enough for me to set up combo.
G2: My opponent gets land screwed on one land and is one point of damage short when I combo out.
R14 BUG Delver 2-0
G1: I mana deny him hard before locking him out with tabernacle. He scoops once my Loam resolves for double wasteland ghost quarter while he's on one land. He was actually playing 3 basics which was odd.
G2: He has turn 1 DRS followed by T2 bitterblossom which is annoying. I drop a little low on life keeping triple delver at bay with a maze and recurring pfire. I play a spe during a turn which he dazes which is great, because I crop rotate into a tabernacle and triple waste him cutting him down to 1 mana, while I pfire his only faerie each turn. I stabilize at 3 and he says he's had enough and packs it up.
R15 Infect 2-1
G1: My opponent leads tropical go which I waste. He plays foothills and passes which leads me to believe infect. I buy myself some extra time to buildup with chasm and he tries to become immense berserk me with it in play...? I end up ghost quartering all of his lands and tabernacling him out.
G2: He leads turn 1 tropical glistener elf. I wasteland his tropical and surgical all of them. Unfortunately his hand is fetch, invigorate x 2, brainstorm, so he fetches forest and hits me for 9 and I don't have an answer for the next swing. I had a GQ and tabby in hand so if he didn't kill me there he was most likely dead with no mana producing lands besides pendelhaven and inkmoth. I took a risk keeping the hand.
G3: I make a turn 2 Marit lage but he crop rotations for Karakas. Noble hierarch get a few beats in, but I eventually draw Loam to remake the beast and take him down.
I end 11-4, one win from prizing, but good enough for two pro points and a lot of fun.
Takesaways:
Wail wasn't super great during the event. I did board them in quite a bit but I think I'll try something else in the meantime. I currently went -2 wail + ancient grudge + pithing needle.
Tracker is still great. I didn't miss revokers too much.
Ancient Tomb in the sideboard is gas.
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http://mythicspoiler.com/hou/cards/miragemirror.html
Thoughts?
~Myth
Double Exploration in my turn, double sphere in your turn. Or you SnT that Emrakul? I have one as well and attack with it. Grislbrand... I draw 7 as well. You needle Stage? No problem...
A 0 CotV in your turn...
And if it gets destroyed... Academy Ruin it back...
Tell me what i have to do not like... Besides the mana I need to really use it...
Seems like a pretty strong one off in RUG. Does it take the spot of CotW? Or can we afford 2 3cmc artifacts?
~Myth
But I also ask the more experienced players here, what they think.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/778453-scavenger-grounds
~Myth
That's what I thought until it was pointed out I misread the text. Exiling our own graveyard is a deal breaker.
Regarding Mirage Mirror, it looks like a cool card. But I'm not inclined to experiment with it myself. The mana investment is high and the effect ends at EoT. Seems good but not great; and there are already better cards lining up to get into my 61 card list!
Maybe somebody will prove me wrong, though.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Also, disclaimer: I'm new to lands. I've finally just bought my Dark Depths so I can finish out the deck (well, Tabernacle is a way off for me, but hey, what can I do?). Anything I post that sounds stupid should be blamed on inexperience with the deck.
Solemnity
2W
Enchantment
Players can't get counters.
Counters can't be put on artifacts, creatures, enchantments, or lands.
Is there any option now to splash White in this deck? With this enchantment, Dark Depths played immediately becomes a Marit Lage. Glacial Chasm becomes a better Energy Field. White also has great sideboard cards, though I'll not pretend to know what the deck needs that white could provide.
Opposing cards that this enchantment hoses are things like Chalice of the Void, Hangarback Walker/Walking Ballista, Umezawa's Jitte, Ratchet Bomb and Engineered Explosives, Infect as a deck. Sure, some of these examples are much faster than a turn 2 or 3 enchantment, but it's there.
White also gives us Swords for matchups that need it, but I might guess Lands can get a Glacial Chasm or Maze of Ith for things like Eldrazi or Death's Shadow or Knight of the Reliquary or Goyf by simply Gambling for it. Knight of the Reliquary gives an out to your opponent's removal, but at least it makes them work to get their Fatal Push online. probably not what Lands wants.
Cons to this new card is the obvious comparison to Vampire Hexmage. The Vampire can kill planeswalkers, which Solemnity doesn't touch.
So, thoughts? I think this represents a fork in the evolution of Lands, but I don't know enough to know if it's a sustainable evolution at all.
I really hope this doesn't break any forum rules I didn't see. I would hope people would reply in spoiler text if there is a real aversion to blatant, plaintext spoilers on the forums. I haven't been on MTGSalvation for many years. Thanks!
Editing two posts into one:
Maybe someone else mentioned it below, and maybe you already know this, but it might help someone to be reminded that one can always get around Prelate by spending more of the same colored mana into Engineered Explosives. For example, if Prelate is set to 3 and you want to kill it, you can cast EE for something like GGRB, so the CMC=4 but Sunburst=3.