A 20/20 indestructible flier is also a pretty good way to deal with TNN
His build is more aggressive, and he said it himself that he built his version to be able to play the combo deck if need be. As seen in some of his matches too, he was fine to just go for it if he had an opening to slam Marit Lage down. He's heavy on the one mana tutors, and sideboards up to the full four Dark Depths.
Been playing around with this build. Misplaced my extra Dark Depths
I'm working on a middle ground between combo and control. Not sure I can do all in combo yet.
I am also what I would call midground for combo-control. I'd play the second crop rotation before the second gamble, IMO.
Also, did anyone notice dark depths is sold out EVERYWHERE, including tcgplayer? If you don't have em, go find some for cheap at your LGS before prices hike!
I am also what I would call midground for combo-control. I'd play the second crop rotation before the second gamble, IMO.
Also, did anyone notice dark depths is sold out EVERYWHERE, including tcgplayer? If you don't have em, go find some for cheap at your LGS before prices hike!
I looked around through my extra cards for Lands, and only had a single foil Crop Rotation. No idea where my second Dark Depths is.
You're probably right on at least having two Crop Rotations.
Also, did anyone notice dark depths is sold out EVERYWHERE, including tcgplayer? If you don't have em, go find some for cheap at your LGS before prices hike!
Wow. I've got one on hold at my LGS (for EDH - I have two for Legacy Lands). Maybe I should pick it up soon before it rises any more!
Hi. I have been seeing lots of lists running gamble and it made me think of Library of Leng. What do you think? It would let us keep our card that we gambled for and it would interact with mox diamond, manabond, and Tolaria West.
Hi. I have been seeing lots of lists running gamble and it made me think of Library of Leng. What do you think? It would let us keep our card that we gambled for and it would interact with mox diamond, manabond, and Tolaria West.
Our green ancestral recall doesn't do anything if our lands aren't in the graveyard. Most of the stuff we can't recover from the graveyard is played before we would gamble (exploration, manabond). Also, the card does nothing by itself and doesn't even give card advantage while in play.
I'm so happy I bought out a lot of foils of cards before the sold out. Crop Rotation being a big one. Also got a total set of Depths so that's good, thought it is impossible to find a reasonably priced Chinese Depths.
Anyway, my current list runs 3 Intuition and 2 Crop Rotation, but I really want to push Crop Rotation up to a 3 of, as my list does rush the combo as fast as possible. It does make me consider cutting the Creeping Tar Pit from the deck, but just having it there makes me feel a little better.
Lastly, what are thoughts on Prime Time in SB for the Show/Tell match up? I saw Kurt's list had it, but as it's been said in the thread, he never got to use it all day.
I don't think a 1 of for show and tell is really that great. Now if you are playing black with Entombs, it becomes a lot better against Reanimator. It is castable on its own however, and it should spell doom if you do.
I had a long conversation with Kurt about it on Sunday. The purpose of the singleton primetime is a target for Gamble. If you turn one gamble for it against show and tell and keep it, you pretty much cut off the S&T play from the deck. If they do S&T you play Prime and search up T-Stage and Karakas, next turn you get to attack and get the Depths and make a 20/20. This plan coupled with the spheres and mana denial plan make it hard for S&T.
As a Singleton I don't find it to be a bad idea and something to try out.
The Reanimator matchup is not as difficult as the S&T because Crop into Bog blows them out and the 6 spheres are more relevant against them.
Just reading through the source's lands thread from the beginning and came to an interesting post. Has anyone tried to run ad nauseam in the combo version (obviously splashing black)? Spies' R/G combo lands list has a total converted mana cost of 29, which is under half that of TES. Could we make a jund combo lands that seeks to go:
1. Disrupt and ramp with exploration/manabond/mox diamond
2. Cast ad nauseum, draw 30 cards, cast manabond with diamond, end of turn stage/depths/wasteland X times/tabernacle/etc.
3. Win following turn after just demolishing opponents board with flood of lands.
The land base would probably have to be modified to make this more devastating, but gambling for ad nauseum and drawing your deck with such a low total cmc makes me want to try this plan.
Edit: different plan, maybe better. Manabond a glacial chasm, next turn (with urborg in play for sufficient mana) flash back past in flames and banefire. Maybe just chasm and marit lage are better.
I went with an Intuition-less list tonight although I kept blue for Tolaria West. I had positive results with Gambles and Crop Rotations, including a crushing 2-0 win over UWR Delver. I'm going to fine tune a bit more from where I am at with my current list posted earlier, only minus two Intuition and adding 1 more of each Gamble and Crop Rotation.
Just reading through the source's lands thread from the beginning and came to an interesting post. Has anyone tried to run ad nauseam in the combo version (obviously splashing black)? Spies' R/G combo lands list has a total converted mana cost of 29, which is under half that of TES. Could we make a jund combo lands that seeks to go:
1. Disrupt and ramp with exploration/manabond/mox diamond
2. Cast ad nauseum, draw 30 cards, cast manabond with diamond, end of turn stage/depths/wasteland X times/tabernacle/etc.
3. Win following turn after just demolishing opponents board with flood of lands.
The land base would probably have to be modified to make this more devastating, but gambling for ad nauseum and drawing your deck with such a low total cmc makes me want to try this plan.
I just tried that on Cockatrice, that was definitively super fun
However while storm has some protection for Ad Nauseam, we have 0 (except the fringe Boseiju)
I just tried that on Cockatrice, that was definitively super fun
However while storm has some protection for Ad Nauseam, we have 0 (except the fringe Boseiju)
Yeah, we would probably need more raven's crime or possibly therapy + dryad arbor. I think it would be possible to slot into the deck. I've been thinking about it and haven't come up with a list yet, but will try to this weekend.
So far the swap-out of crop rotation for manabond has been working well for the mindslaver wincon
I kinda needed some insta-win con just in case the slower and overtime ones get killed somehow
So this weekend I ended up playing a small tournament with my playgroup for the chance to win a Force of Will. This had to be the most diverse tournament I've ever played in, here are the decks:
Elves
RWU Delver
NO RUG
Tinfins
Sneak/Show
Lands
Shardless BUG
Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils (My next deck to learn)
No Budget Pox (You don't see this every day, it was enjoyable)
RUG Delver
Out of 4 rounds I only played two, as I wasn't feeling too well after a midnight prerelease and a long day following. My matchups were these:
Round 1: Sneakiest of Shows
So I still feel like this is my worst match up out of any deck I've ever played against. I did not see any of my mainboard cards which could have saved me from a shown Emrakul or at least helped me out in the game. (Karakas, Crop Rotation, Pithing Needle) Funnily enough, game two I didn't see a single sideboard card and he went off turn 1. It was not the best game, and now I'm seriously considering Prime Time.
Round 2: Grizz and the Boys
Tinfins. The favorite deck of one of my friends. He'd taken a long break from playing it since last year (or was it the year before?) when he put it together but never played it, so he made up for that by sitting in his room all week for the tournament and playtesting it, that's dedication. Anyway. Game 1: I lose pretty hard, it was quite messy. Game 2 is where things started to shift in my favor, both of us had relatively slow starts, my artifact ramp was messed up by a Hurkyl's Recall, but he couldn't find his combo and proceeded to try to kill me with a fantastic Children of Korlis beatdown for about 5 turns while I sat on a single Crop Rotation in hand. As he finally found his combo, he entombs a Griselbrand and goes to Shallow Grave it into a crop rotated Bog. Forced him into a scoop. Game 3 was a lockdown with Chalices, Wastelands, a Sphere of Resistance and a Crop Rotation in hand to fetch for a Glacial Chasm just in-case he storms off. It was a solid game and I was happy to have beaten a deck which was definitely a bad matchup for me.
Round 3-4: Drop.
Now I shouldn't have done this as my two combo matchups (aside from NO RUG) were out of the way and the rest of the decks would have been relatively easy as my list is tuned enough to survive against them. Funny though how I didn't see a 20/20 token all night though.
For those wondering, Elves took it with our in house Veteran Elves pilot. A fantastic and diverse group where no deck was seen twice. Definitely thinking of putting the Prime Time in board now that I was beaten so hard by Sneak/Show.
Chasm doesn't stop tendrils. Loss of life is different from damage. Good luck with DDFT. I played that deck for a year and it's a blast.
Ah thank you for clearing that one up! And yeah I've been practicing the list for a bit, it's not easy but it definitely feels a lot resilient to SB hate and is over all a much more stable storm deck to what I'm used to. (I piloted TES for about 3 months.)
Chasm doesn't stop tendrils. Loss of life is different from damage. Good luck with DDFT. I played that deck for a year and it's a blast.
Ah thank you for clearing that one up! And yeah I've been practicing the list for a bit, it's not easy but it definitely feels a lot resilient to SB hate and is over all a much more stable storm deck to what I'm used to. (I piloted TES for about 3 months.)
DDFT is one of the hardest decks in the format to pilot. I know people who've played it for years and still mess up their piles. It's difficult. Their piles are very mana intensive, ie: Perfect mana counting is needed, so any sphere effects, trinisphere wrecks them.
Usually chalice @ 0 is very good too, as common piles are like:
Idea's Unbound -> LED -> LED -> Gitaxian Probe-> Burning Wish -> Tendrils or something similar.
Chasm doesn't stop tendrils. Loss of life is different from damage. Good luck with DDFT. I played that deck for a year and it's a blast.
Ah thank you for clearing that one up! And yeah I've been practicing the list for a bit, it's not easy but it definitely feels a lot resilient to SB hate and is over all a much more stable storm deck to what I'm used to. (I piloted TES for about 3 months.)
DDFT is one of the hardest decks in the format to pilot. I know people who've played it for years and still mess up their piles. It's difficult. Their piles are very mana intensive, ie: Perfect mana counting is needed, so any sphere effects, trinisphere wrecks them.
Usually chalice @ 0 is very good too, as common piles are like:
Idea's Unbound -> LED -> LED -> Gitaxian Probe-> Burning Wish -> Tendrils or something similar.
For Example IU LED LED Probe BW is incorrect LOL - its IU LED Probe LED BW but lets save that for the DDFT threads on the storm boards.
has anyone played the mirror match here? what are the key strategies for that matchup?
Chasm doesn't stop tendrils. Loss of life is different from damage. Good luck with DDFT. I played that deck for a year and it's a blast.
Ah thank you for clearing that one up! And yeah I've been practicing the list for a bit, it's not easy but it definitely feels a lot resilient to SB hate and is over all a much more stable storm deck to what I'm used to. (I piloted TES for about 3 months.)
DDFT is one of the hardest decks in the format to pilot. I know people who've played it for years and still mess up their piles. It's difficult. Their piles are very mana intensive, ie: Perfect mana counting is needed, so any sphere effects, trinisphere wrecks them.
Usually chalice @ 0 is very good too, as common piles are like:
Idea's Unbound -> LED -> LED -> Gitaxian Probe-> Burning Wish -> Tendrils or something similar.
For Example IU LED LED Probe BW is incorrect LOL - its IU LED Probe LED BW but lets save that for the DDFT threads on the storm boards.
has anyone played the mirror match here? what are the key strategies for that matchup?
I don't see how your pile is any different from mine, since your IU still draws you LED x 2 + Probe. But I Digress.
For the mirror, wasteland and loam online first should end it. Maindeck bog will also end it if you can get a lock with it. (ie: Zuran orb + loam/crucible, etc)
the standard way of entering your chain of spells is popping a top so your listed pile IU will draw you a SDT and 2x LEDS which will break your combo. Your pile will only work if you cast a cantrip to enter the chain. My pile works for any cantrip and SDT.
back on the lands topic,
Do you think that pushing for a quick Marit Lage will matter or should you just settle on trying to out control the other lands player? I also guess mulligaing aggressive is super important as well. Have you played the Mirror before Sparki?
the standard way of entering your chain of spells is popping a top so your listed pile IU will draw you a SDT and 2x LEDS which will break your combo. Your pile will only work if you cast a cantrip to enter the chain. My pile works for any cantrip and SDT.
back on the lands topic,
Do you think that pushing for a quick Marit Lage will matter or should you just settle on trying to out control the other lands player? I also guess mulligaing aggressive is super important as well. Have you played the Mirror before Sparki?
I have played the mirror, but it was a very long time ago, my list was playing Enlightened Tutor, Creeping Tar pit and Mishra's Factories and no groves. This was probably 2 years ago, so I can't say I've recently faced the mirror.
If I had to guess though, aggressive mulligain to a loam or crucible would help, and you'd need a wasteland lock ASAP. Crop Rotation into bog probably ends the game too, should you run them.
I've played against the mirror recently, and whomever landed the first Exploration won the game. Loam was important, sure, but without the ability to get those lands into play faster, it's just 50 minutes of exchanging Wasteland and Rishadan Port activations. lol
His build is more aggressive, and he said it himself that he built his version to be able to play the combo deck if need be. As seen in some of his matches too, he was fine to just go for it if he had an opening to slam Marit Lage down. He's heavy on the one mana tutors, and sideboards up to the full four Dark Depths.
1 Academy Ruins
1 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Thespian's Stage
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Exploration
2 Gamble
2 Intuition
2 Manabond
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
1 Zuran Orb
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
Been playing around with this build. Misplaced my extra Dark Depths
I'm working on a middle ground between combo and control. Not sure I can do all in combo yet.
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
Also, did anyone notice dark depths is sold out EVERYWHERE, including tcgplayer? If you don't have em, go find some for cheap at your LGS before prices hike!
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
I looked around through my extra cards for Lands, and only had a single foil Crop Rotation. No idea where my second Dark Depths is.
You're probably right on at least having two Crop Rotations.
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
Wow. I've got one on hold at my LGS (for EDH - I have two for Legacy Lands). Maybe I should pick it up soon before it rises any more!
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Our green ancestral recall doesn't do anything if our lands aren't in the graveyard. Most of the stuff we can't recover from the graveyard is played before we would gamble (exploration, manabond). Also, the card does nothing by itself and doesn't even give card advantage while in play.
Anyway, my current list runs 3 Intuition and 2 Crop Rotation, but I really want to push Crop Rotation up to a 3 of, as my list does rush the combo as fast as possible. It does make me consider cutting the Creeping Tar Pit from the deck, but just having it there makes me feel a little better.
Lastly, what are thoughts on Prime Time in SB for the Show/Tell match up? I saw Kurt's list had it, but as it's been said in the thread, he never got to use it all day.
As a Singleton I don't find it to be a bad idea and something to try out.
The Reanimator matchup is not as difficult as the S&T because Crop into Bog blows them out and the 6 spheres are more relevant against them.
1. Disrupt and ramp with exploration/manabond/mox diamond
2. Cast ad nauseum, draw 30 cards, cast manabond with diamond, end of turn stage/depths/wasteland X times/tabernacle/etc.
3. Win following turn after just demolishing opponents board with flood of lands.
The land base would probably have to be modified to make this more devastating, but gambling for ad nauseum and drawing your deck with such a low total cmc makes me want to try this plan.
Edit: different plan, maybe better. Manabond a glacial chasm, next turn (with urborg in play for sufficient mana) flash back past in flames and banefire. Maybe just chasm and marit lage are better.
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
I just tried that on Cockatrice, that was definitively super fun
However while storm has some protection for Ad Nauseam, we have 0 (except the fringe Boseiju)
Yeah, we would probably need more raven's crime or possibly therapy + dryad arbor. I think it would be possible to slot into the deck. I've been thinking about it and haven't come up with a list yet, but will try to this weekend.
I kinda needed some insta-win con just in case the slower and overtime ones get killed somehow
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
Elves
RWU Delver
NO RUG
Tinfins
Sneak/Show
Lands
Shardless BUG
Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils (My next deck to learn)
No Budget Pox (You don't see this every day, it was enjoyable)
RUG Delver
Out of 4 rounds I only played two, as I wasn't feeling too well after a midnight prerelease and a long day following. My matchups were these:
Round 1: Sneakiest of Shows
So I still feel like this is my worst match up out of any deck I've ever played against. I did not see any of my mainboard cards which could have saved me from a shown Emrakul or at least helped me out in the game. (Karakas, Crop Rotation, Pithing Needle) Funnily enough, game two I didn't see a single sideboard card and he went off turn 1. It was not the best game, and now I'm seriously considering Prime Time.
Round 2: Grizz and the Boys
Tinfins. The favorite deck of one of my friends. He'd taken a long break from playing it since last year (or was it the year before?) when he put it together but never played it, so he made up for that by sitting in his room all week for the tournament and playtesting it, that's dedication. Anyway. Game 1: I lose pretty hard, it was quite messy. Game 2 is where things started to shift in my favor, both of us had relatively slow starts, my artifact ramp was messed up by a Hurkyl's Recall, but he couldn't find his combo and proceeded to try to kill me with a fantastic Children of Korlis beatdown for about 5 turns while I sat on a single Crop Rotation in hand. As he finally found his combo, he entombs a Griselbrand and goes to Shallow Grave it into a crop rotated Bog. Forced him into a scoop. Game 3 was a lockdown with Chalices, Wastelands, a Sphere of Resistance and a Crop Rotation in hand to fetch for a Glacial Chasm just in-case he storms off. It was a solid game and I was happy to have beaten a deck which was definitely a bad matchup for me.
Round 3-4: Drop.
Now I shouldn't have done this as my two combo matchups (aside from NO RUG) were out of the way and the rest of the decks would have been relatively easy as my list is tuned enough to survive against them. Funny though how I didn't see a 20/20 token all night though.
For those wondering, Elves took it with our in house Veteran Elves pilot. A fantastic and diverse group where no deck was seen twice. Definitely thinking of putting the Prime Time in board now that I was beaten so hard by Sneak/Show.
Ah thank you for clearing that one up! And yeah I've been practicing the list for a bit, it's not easy but it definitely feels a lot resilient to SB hate and is over all a much more stable storm deck to what I'm used to. (I piloted TES for about 3 months.)
DDFT is one of the hardest decks in the format to pilot. I know people who've played it for years and still mess up their piles. It's difficult. Their piles are very mana intensive, ie: Perfect mana counting is needed, so any sphere effects, trinisphere wrecks them.
Usually chalice @ 0 is very good too, as common piles are like:
Idea's Unbound -> LED -> LED -> Gitaxian Probe-> Burning Wish -> Tendrils or something similar.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
For Example IU LED LED Probe BW is incorrect LOL - its IU LED Probe LED BW but lets save that for the DDFT threads on the storm boards.
has anyone played the mirror match here? what are the key strategies for that matchup?
I don't see how your pile is any different from mine, since your IU still draws you LED x 2 + Probe. But I Digress.
For the mirror, wasteland and loam online first should end it. Maindeck bog will also end it if you can get a lock with it. (ie: Zuran orb + loam/crucible, etc)
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
back on the lands topic,
Do you think that pushing for a quick Marit Lage will matter or should you just settle on trying to out control the other lands player? I also guess mulligaing aggressive is super important as well. Have you played the Mirror before Sparki?
I have played the mirror, but it was a very long time ago, my list was playing Enlightened Tutor, Creeping Tar pit and Mishra's Factories and no groves. This was probably 2 years ago, so I can't say I've recently faced the mirror.
If I had to guess though, aggressive mulligain to a loam or crucible would help, and you'd need a wasteland lock ASAP. Crop Rotation into bog probably ends the game too, should you run them.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor