According to the app on my phone, BUG comes in at 3491 and RG at 2626. That's not a small difference. Also in the limited testing I have done, RG offers a much smother opening as you have more limes of play in the early stages of a game. As long as you can set up a lock or combo fast, you don't lose. BUG offers more staying power but if you make an error in the beginning you lose.
Personally, I wonder what on earth happened to Jund Depths, it was a cool offshoot that just kind of died. I really want to test too a version of RG with Bob in place of Gamble.
welp, with commander 2014 releasing in 6 days I hope that gives me enough time to decide if I take Lands or Dredge to this months open...I was gonna Dredge but if Priest goes into every deck for some reason I am going all lands. (which I am starting to lean towards anyway with just that threat)
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So two Opalescence and a Humility walk into a bar, I forget the rest of the joke but your sanctioned judge is a scrub.
Are those your only two options? I like both decks a ton Lands is a beast to play for 9 rounds straight though so I just want to make sure you know that(You got it though!).
Although I don't know how much I need Karakas, Delver Dredge and Miracles seem to be rampant in my meta, so I might just avoid that and find some more Delver hate.
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So two Opalescence and a Humility walk into a bar, I forget the rest of the joke but your sanctioned judge is a scrub.
Although I don't know how much I need Karakas, Delver Dredge and Miracles seem to be rampant in my meta, so I might just avoid that and find some more Delver hate.
With the return of Reanimator, a single Karakas in the 75 would be a strong choice.
The longest I've played with Lands was 5 rounds and I was completely spent mentally. You'll want a lot of practice and, if possible, a number of smaller events before the big one.
As an update, I've been extremely happy with 2 SDT and 1 Sylvan Library in the main. The only real negative is that it slows down (my playing of) an already slow deck. I still have a single Smokestack in the main, plus a second in the side, but am more able to avoid drawing it in the match-ups or board states where it's underwhelming.
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"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
Awesome! Congratulations.
I was wondering how you did so I was excited to check the standings just now.
When you catch your breath, could you share how you sideboarded?
What made you move away from Bob and the hatebears (and Smokestack, if you were ever on that plan)?
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"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
Okay, here we go from memory, so apologies if I'm forgetting important details.
I didn't decide to go with smokestack because I feel it's too slow against delver, and bad against pyromancer tokens and such. I also didn't play any ensnaring bridge in the 76 as I thought delver would be scaring all the sneak and show away. You can see how that turned out.
G1: He leads off with turn 1 fetch, mountain, sensei's top. I'm thinking to myself "Of all the matchups..." I have literally no action here other than wastes and a few ports, but he drops city of traitors, lotus petal and a blood moon and I pack it up since my only out is EE, but I have neither the basic forest or a mox diamond.
G2: He keeps a 1 lander and gets severely punished for it, drawing no land while I swarm my own board with mine. He had a tormod's crypt and a turn 1 goblin welder this game, but that was about it.
G3: Chalice @ 1 wins me the game, as he shows me a hand of 3x pyroblast. He had landed a painter + grindstone earlier, but I was ready with an EE on 2 + a Kgrip and Decay in hand.
G1: He leads off volcanic island and ponder and I'm thinking delver. Next turn, he goes -> Mainphase brainstorm, Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, Show and Tell, Emmy. Great.
G2: I get double port going, as well as ghost quarter and eventually ghost quarter him out of basics. Phyrexian Revoker played on turn 2 naming griselbrand beats him down all the way down to 0. I get blood mooned at some point during the game, but Kgrip it so I can triple waste him out of colored mana, specifically red.
G3: I start my mana denial plan, he plays a show and tell, I drop revoker, he drops griselbrand. Guess what I named? I had a maze of ith so he couldn't attack me, I eventually make a marit lage, which he blocks, but he can't survive the next swing. He tells me he screwed up, as he shuffled away cards he wanted on a ghost quarter. I'll take it.
G1: I keep a hand with a natural turn 4 marit lage, but get run over too fast as he plays double goblin chieftain. He also had ports and wastes of his own which screwed me up.
G2: He plays some goblins and gets me down to 7, but a crop rotation makes me a marit lage token at EOT and that's the game.
G3: He keeps a one lander + Aether Vial. I keep a hand with punishing fire, EE and grove. I fire his creatures away, EE the vial and by the end of the game he has 0 cards in play.
G1: He plays something along the lines of 2 cantrips off a volcanic island, and I'm thinking delver once more. Out comes ancient tomb-> Sneak attack and I'm dead, even with karakas in play, as he has multiple red
G2: He show and tells in a blood moon, which I have a KGrip for a few turns later, but he has the sneak attack once again and hits me with emrakul. He's topdecking so I'm hoping he doesn't find another creature before I can rebuild a bit, but he topdecks another emmy and I'm dead. Sheeeeesh.
G1: A grindfest, as usual. I think I had 5 ports going this game. I eventally grind him out with ghost quarter, crucible and exploration.
G2: He double blood moons and takes a while to find an entreat the angels. I could've had the game if it was just a single blood moon as I had depths + stage in play and a grip in hand, but the turn before I went for it, he added a second.
G3: Grindy again, ghost quarter is doing a bit of work, but he plays RIP which I EE away. We then stalemate all the way into the 5 extra turns, where he bloods moons twice, and tries to entreat for the win, but I EE the tokens away and we draw. He cliqued me on the crucial turn where I draw a Mox Diamond which would allow me to EE3 away both blood moon, but he tucked the mox away.
G1: I don't remember too much of this game. I remember me having punishing fire going, he gets down to 12 from fetches and I think gitaxian probes looking at my notes. From what I can tell, he played a SFM, hit me with SFM + Batterskull going to 16, I threaten depths in play, he swings me down to 8 going up to 20, I make a token and win.
G2: I finally see a delver this game, I wasn't sure if he was playing them. If I recall, I ported and wasted him out of the game, my only notes here are me going down to 17 (I think it was a TNN), and he goes from 20->18->17 and that's it.
G1: Delver does what delver does and I lose pretty fast.
G2: Unflipped delver beatdown on his end, Abrupt decay is pretty good at dealing with them. Lots of cantrips on his end, but wastes and ports keep him off mana. He drops and RIP at one point, which I grip, and we hit a stalemate for a while, but I topdeck better and close it out with depths.
G3: Grindy game, but I keep his lands ported, and make it so he can't drop RIP. I'm even porting wastelands and fetches this game to keep him off the mana. I was his volcanics early, and he tells me I was dead if he had an extra red source in the deck as I was at 9, and he had triple bolt. It took so much to deal with his first delver, it got me all the way down to 9, as he countered 2 punishing fires on it, but I had to EE=0 it away.
G1: This was my feature match (Or I was the backup, anyways. No video coverage sadly). I have to mull to 5! I find a hand with Mox Diamond, Catacombs, Punishing Fire, Grove and another land. Keep. He leads off with a SFM off some tundras, which I shoot. I establish a punishing fire lock, and just start shooting him turn after turn for 1 after he keeps passing the turn to me. He plays TNN, which I have the Explosives for, and plays another TNN which I also have the second explosives for. He goes to waste my grove, and I crop rotate in response, think for a second and go with academy ruins for a different lock. He GSZ's for scavenging ooze, with one green mana open, and on my upkeep, I attempt to academy ruins back my explosives, which he eats, I simply pick up my fire and shoot the ooze. I then have EE lock and fires lock, but he decides to keep playing, I make a Marit Lage, which he STP's, I try again and that's game.
G2: He turn 2 meddling mages, calling punishing fire. He has some Deathrite action and a Relic of Progenitus going, but is a little short on land. He's also got a karakas. My board is 2x Mox Diamond, 2x Rishadan Port and another land, and I'm holding Notion thief hoping for a blowout. He plays a hierarch, and swings in for 3, and I decide to just trade with the mage. I get a nice (What the ****?) from the notion thief though. He's tapped out including the relic, so I tolaria west for tabernacle, and loam it back. He eats my loam, and his mana starts to get held up by tabernacle and my ports. I draw into a depths which I play, still keeping my port lock. I tolaria west for stage, and eventually have enough land to port his karakas at EOT and Marit Lage eats him.
Abrupt decay is strong, so is hurkyl's recall. 3 Basics is enough for them to work off of, and they hand sculpt fairly easy. I think this is the only matchup where I would have really appreciated the bobs in the board.
I was also at the open last night. I went 4-4, but was actually quite happy as I had some rough pairings. I wont go into full details, but here is what I ran.
Spheres were very good for me. They actually did work against a lot of decks. I won against painter because I had two spheres by turn two, and a port going. He just couldn't cast his spells. Spheres were the SB all-start for sure. Bridge did nothing, was very sad that I decided on the last minute change from Helm to Bridge. But, I also didn't play Show and Tell, like Sparki did. Bob was pretty good for me, and I'm really looking forward to more discussion about him in the side. As we see, Sparki fore-goed the Bobs, so it's interesting to see why/when this is appropriate. Grips were obviously huge, but nobody is surprised there. Top was a great choice as well. Top will be a mainboard choice from now on.
The biggest takeaway for me, is this: should Manabond be cut altogether. Sparki has zero, and it always gets sided out. I had it in my opening hand twice, didn't end up activating it. I know it can be a house when its good. And that its just more copies of exploration sometimes, but ugh. I would love to turn those slots into a second EE or something. I know I needed the second explosives many times, and in the games I watched Sparki play yesterday, there were multiple instances where double EE was clutch.
I am wondering if I can use chalice and ensaring bridge SB in my R/G lands, I haven't gotten the hang of how the deck goes, I can turn 3 make a 20/20 but it ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS etc meets chain of vapor or submerge. how irritating.
BRING IN THE STEELY RESERVES
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So two Opalescence and a Humility walk into a bar, I forget the rest of the joke but your sanctioned judge is a scrub.
Oh man Sparki I cringed when I saw that lands was going against storm round one :(. Still well done one getting through all those other decks to make top 8!
Great report Sparki! Thanks for the sideboarding strategies..
What is your thought on taking revoker over cards like needle and cursed totem (I like it though)
I'm also wondering How necessary it is to play zuran orb maindeck? Is it because of the popularity of UR delver which can burn you out?
I also suppose you will place an ensnaring bridge in the board after facing Sneak and show two times?
Keep up the good work!
I'd rather have revoker over needle since it shuts off mana abilities, and goes with out mana denial strategies. You can shut off things like LED, Grim monolith, noble hierarch, etc.
I think Zuran Orb should be maindecked now, especially with lots of burn/delver infesting the meta. It's your only out to price of progress, plus you can tutor it off Tolaria West.
I'll be placing a bridge back in the side for sure.
As much as I enjoy being adorable with Top, the tried and true method had all the strength still. No drown yard stories? I wanted at least one game to be decided by it lol.
As much as I enjoy being adorable with Top, the tried and true method had all the strength still. No drown yard stories? I wanted at least one game to be decided by it lol.
The one game that I did have it, I was facing down double blood moon, so sad face.
The situations where I remember wanting using the Oblivion Stone as my out, but alas, deck space being an issue. Would have been nice to close out that match with Drownyard honestly. I can see where the Smokestack/Harvest might now be too slow if U/R Delver is a huge thing, but how did the Open event look at the early tables?
Edit: While I did just trade for 3 Tropical Island, I am going to stick with R/G
Personally, I wonder what on earth happened to Jund Depths, it was a cool offshoot that just kind of died. I really want to test too a version of RG with Bob in place of Gamble.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
With the return of Reanimator, a single Karakas in the 75 would be a strong choice.
The longest I've played with Lands was 5 rounds and I was completely spent mentally. You'll want a lot of practice and, if possible, a number of smaller events before the big one.
As an update, I've been extremely happy with 2 SDT and 1 Sylvan Library in the main. The only real negative is that it slows down (my playing of) an already slow deck. I still have a single Smokestack in the main, plus a second in the side, but am more able to avoid drawing it in the match-ups or board states where it's underwhelming.
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http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=75670
Interesting choice of Notion Thief in the SB.
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Round 1: Imperial Painter 2-1
Round 2: Sneak and Show 2-1
Round 3: Goblins 2-1
Round 4: Sneak and Show 0-2
Round 5: Miracles 1-1-1
Round 6: U/W/R Delver 2-0
Round 7: U/W/R Delver 2-1
Round 8: Bantblade 2-0
Top 8:
ANT - 0-2
With painter and 2x Sneak and Show in my first 4 games, I'm pretty happy I made it as far as I did.
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I was wondering how you did so I was excited to check the standings just now.
When you catch your breath, could you share how you sideboarded?
What made you move away from Bob and the hatebears (and Smokestack, if you were ever on that plan)?
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Nice to see a SB with Thief and Drownyard.
I didn't decide to go with smokestack because I feel it's too slow against delver, and bad against pyromancer tokens and such. I also didn't play any ensnaring bridge in the 76 as I thought delver would be scaring all the sneak and show away. You can see how that turned out.
Lands: 36
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
1 Taiga
2 Thespian's Stage
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Tolaria West
3 Tropical Island
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth,
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Intuition
3 Punishing Fire
3 Crop Rotation
Sorceries: 4
4 Life from the Loam
Enchantments: 4
4 Exploration
Artifacts: 8
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
1 Zuran Orb
1 Notion Thief
1 Nephalia Drownyard
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Phyreixan Revoker
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Krosan Grip
2 Abrupt Decay
Round 1: Imperial Painter 2-1
G1: He leads off with turn 1 fetch, mountain, sensei's top. I'm thinking to myself "Of all the matchups..." I have literally no action here other than wastes and a few ports, but he drops city of traitors, lotus petal and a blood moon and I pack it up since my only out is EE, but I have neither the basic forest or a mox diamond.
G2: He keeps a 1 lander and gets severely punished for it, drawing no land while I swarm my own board with mine. He had a tormod's crypt and a turn 1 goblin welder this game, but that was about it.
G3: Chalice @ 1 wins me the game, as he shows me a hand of 3x pyroblast. He had landed a painter + grindstone earlier, but I was ready with an EE on 2 + a Kgrip and Decay in hand.
Board Out: -3 Intuition, -Karakas, -3 Crop Rotation, -1 Zuran Orb, - 2 Wasteland
Board In: +3 Chalice of the Void, +2 Krosan Grip, +2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Phyrexian Revoker
Round 2: Sneak and Show 2-1
G1: He leads off volcanic island and ponder and I'm thinking delver. Next turn, he goes -> Mainphase brainstorm, Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, Show and Tell, Emmy. Great.
G2: I get double port going, as well as ghost quarter and eventually ghost quarter him out of basics. Phyrexian Revoker played on turn 2 naming griselbrand beats him down all the way down to 0. I get blood mooned at some point during the game, but Kgrip it so I can triple waste him out of colored mana, specifically red.
G3: I start my mana denial plan, he plays a show and tell, I drop revoker, he drops griselbrand. Guess what I named? I had a maze of ith so he couldn't attack me, I eventually make a marit lage, which he blocks, but he can't survive the next swing. He tells me he screwed up, as he shuffled away cards he wanted on a ghost quarter. I'll take it.
Board Out: -3 Intuition, -1 Zuran Orb, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Tabernacle, -2 Punishing Fire
Board In: +1 Notion Thief, +2 Krosan Grip, +2 Phyrexian Revoker, + 3 Chalice of the Void
Round 3: Goblins 2-1
G1: I keep a hand with a natural turn 4 marit lage, but get run over too fast as he plays double goblin chieftain. He also had ports and wastes of his own which screwed me up.
G2: He plays some goblins and gets me down to 7, but a crop rotation makes me a marit lage token at EOT and that's the game.
G3: He keeps a one lander + Aether Vial. I keep a hand with punishing fire, EE and grove. I fire his creatures away, EE the vial and by the end of the game he has 0 cards in play.
Board Out: -3 Intuition, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Karakas
Board In: +2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Phyrexian Revoker, +1 Krosan Grip
Round 4: Sneak and Show 0-2
G1: He plays something along the lines of 2 cantrips off a volcanic island, and I'm thinking delver once more. Out comes ancient tomb-> Sneak attack and I'm dead, even with karakas in play, as he has multiple red
G2: He show and tells in a blood moon, which I have a KGrip for a few turns later, but he has the sneak attack once again and hits me with emrakul. He's topdecking so I'm hoping he doesn't find another creature before I can rebuild a bit, but he topdecks another emmy and I'm dead. Sheeeeesh.
Board Out: -3 Intuition, -1 Zuran Orb, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Tabernacle, -2 Punishing Fire
Board In: +1 Notion Thief, +2 Krosan Grip, +2 Phyrexian Revoker, + 3 Chalice of the Void
Round 5: Miracles 1-1-1
G1: A grindfest, as usual. I think I had 5 ports going this game. I eventally grind him out with ghost quarter, crucible and exploration.
G2: He double blood moons and takes a while to find an entreat the angels. I could've had the game if it was just a single blood moon as I had depths + stage in play and a grip in hand, but the turn before I went for it, he added a second.
G3: Grindy again, ghost quarter is doing a bit of work, but he plays RIP which I EE away. We then stalemate all the way into the 5 extra turns, where he bloods moons twice, and tries to entreat for the win, but I EE the tokens away and we draw. He cliqued me on the crucial turn where I draw a Mox Diamond which would allow me to EE3 away both blood moon, but he tucked the mox away.
Board Out: -3 Intuition, -1 Bojuka Bog, -3 Crop Rotation, -1 Punishing Fire, - 1 Glacial Chasm, -2 Maze of Ith
Board In: +3 Chalice of the Void, +2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Nephalia Drownyard, +1 Notion Thief +2 Phyrexian Revoker
Round 6: U/W/R Delver 2-0
G1: I don't remember too much of this game. I remember me having punishing fire going, he gets down to 12 from fetches and I think gitaxian probes looking at my notes. From what I can tell, he played a SFM, hit me with SFM + Batterskull going to 16, I threaten depths in play, he swings me down to 8 going up to 20, I make a token and win.
G2: I finally see a delver this game, I wasn't sure if he was playing them. If I recall, I ported and wasted him out of the game, my only notes here are me going down to 17 (I think it was a TNN), and he goes from 20->18->17 and that's it.
Board Out: -3 Intuition, -1 Karakas, -1 Bojuka Bog, -3 Crop Rotation
Board In: +3 Chalice of the Void, +2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Notion Thief
Round 7: U/W/R Delver 2-1
G1: Delver does what delver does and I lose pretty fast.
G2: Unflipped delver beatdown on his end, Abrupt decay is pretty good at dealing with them. Lots of cantrips on his end, but wastes and ports keep him off mana. He drops and RIP at one point, which I grip, and we hit a stalemate for a while, but I topdeck better and close it out with depths.
G3: Grindy game, but I keep his lands ported, and make it so he can't drop RIP. I'm even porting wastelands and fetches this game to keep him off the mana. I was his volcanics early, and he tells me I was dead if he had an extra red source in the deck as I was at 9, and he had triple bolt. It took so much to deal with his first delver, it got me all the way down to 9, as he countered 2 punishing fires on it, but I had to EE=0 it away.
Board Out: -3 Intuition, -1 Karakas, -1 Bojuka Bog, -3 Crop Rotation
Board In: +3 Chalice of the Void, +2 Abrupt Decay, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Notion Thief
Round 8: Bantblade 2-0
G1: This was my feature match (Or I was the backup, anyways. No video coverage sadly). I have to mull to 5! I find a hand with Mox Diamond, Catacombs, Punishing Fire, Grove and another land. Keep. He leads off with a SFM off some tundras, which I shoot. I establish a punishing fire lock, and just start shooting him turn after turn for 1 after he keeps passing the turn to me. He plays TNN, which I have the Explosives for, and plays another TNN which I also have the second explosives for. He goes to waste my grove, and I crop rotate in response, think for a second and go with academy ruins for a different lock. He GSZ's for scavenging ooze, with one green mana open, and on my upkeep, I attempt to academy ruins back my explosives, which he eats, I simply pick up my fire and shoot the ooze. I then have EE lock and fires lock, but he decides to keep playing, I make a Marit Lage, which he STP's, I try again and that's game.
G2: He turn 2 meddling mages, calling punishing fire. He has some Deathrite action and a Relic of Progenitus going, but is a little short on land. He's also got a karakas. My board is 2x Mox Diamond, 2x Rishadan Port and another land, and I'm holding Notion thief hoping for a blowout. He plays a hierarch, and swings in for 3, and I decide to just trade with the mage. I get a nice (What the ****?) from the notion thief though. He's tapped out including the relic, so I tolaria west for tabernacle, and loam it back. He eats my loam, and his mana starts to get held up by tabernacle and my ports. I draw into a depths which I play, still keeping my port lock. I tolaria west for stage, and eventually have enough land to port his karakas at EOT and Marit Lage eats him.
Top 8:
ANT - 0-2
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/quarterfinals_randolph_gille_v.html
Abrupt decay is strong, so is hurkyl's recall. 3 Basics is enough for them to work off of, and they hand sculpt fairly easy. I think this is the only matchup where I would have really appreciated the bobs in the board.
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Spheres were very good for me. They actually did work against a lot of decks. I won against painter because I had two spheres by turn two, and a port going. He just couldn't cast his spells. Spheres were the SB all-start for sure. Bridge did nothing, was very sad that I decided on the last minute change from Helm to Bridge. But, I also didn't play Show and Tell, like Sparki did. Bob was pretty good for me, and I'm really looking forward to more discussion about him in the side. As we see, Sparki fore-goed the Bobs, so it's interesting to see why/when this is appropriate. Grips were obviously huge, but nobody is surprised there. Top was a great choice as well. Top will be a mainboard choice from now on.
The biggest takeaway for me, is this: should Manabond be cut altogether. Sparki has zero, and it always gets sided out. I had it in my opening hand twice, didn't end up activating it. I know it can be a house when its good. And that its just more copies of exploration sometimes, but ugh. I would love to turn those slots into a second EE or something. I know I needed the second explosives many times, and in the games I watched Sparki play yesterday, there were multiple instances where double EE was clutch.
Please discuss.
2 Manabond
1 Tropical Island
2 Wooded Foothils
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Bayou
1 Badlands
2 Intuition
2 Tolaria West
3 Crop Rotation
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Dark Depths
1 Engineered Explosives
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Life from the Loam
1 Forest
2 Thespian's Stage
4 Exploration
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Punishing Fire
4 Mox Diamond
4 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
3 Maze of Ith
3 Rishadan Port
1 Taiga
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Zuran Orb
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
3 Dark Confidant
3 Krosan Grip
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
1 Toxic Deluge
BRING IN THE STEELY RESERVES
I'd rather have revoker over needle since it shuts off mana abilities, and goes with out mana denial strategies. You can shut off things like LED, Grim monolith, noble hierarch, etc.
I think Zuran Orb should be maindecked now, especially with lots of burn/delver infesting the meta. It's your only out to price of progress, plus you can tutor it off Tolaria West.
I'll be placing a bridge back in the side for sure.
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The one game that I did have it, I was facing down double blood moon, so sad face.
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