Believe it or not, I kind of like Vryn Wingmare better than Thalia??? Am I crazy??? I was siding out some numbers of Thalia and leaving in the flyer in a couple of matches last night versus Delver decks or versus rogue decks with big ground-pounders. Am I cookoo???
I also ran one Relic of Progenitus main and liked it. I think two is a better number.
I don't know about siding out Thalia against Delver..a turn 2 Thalia is so backbreaking to them and with wasteland and ports they are usually locked out of mana.
Unrelated, @Curby, Frenadol, anyone testing WG: Did anyone move to 7 fetch, 2 Plains over 6 fetch, 3 Plains?
I'll be going to a few events in October, but I really don't have that much time to play. Thus the armchair general nature of my posts.
I'd also test 2 Savannah if you aren't running Yisan. Something I brought up before when we were taking the scary step (heh) of removing the basic Forest was how likely it would be for an opponent to hit our Savannahs with Wastelands if given the choice. Karakas seems to be getting increasingly less relevant (and thus less scary), but I think most opponents would be at least as afraid of our Ports as our Savannahs, given that any green splash will be pretty light.
My point is, it's highly unlikely that we'll naturally draw both of our two Savannahs, be forced to play them early to make W, then get them both Wasted, then draw a green non-creature spell but be out of green sources to cast it with. At the same time, limiting exposure to other nonbasic hate can be useful, especially in a less developed metagame or in early rounds of a larger event where Burn tends to run rampant. So unless you have existing evidence that says 3 Plains 2 Savannah doesn't work, I'd try it (as well) if you want another fetch.
Believe it or not, I kind of like Vryn Wingmare better than Thalia??? Am I crazy??? I was siding out some numbers of Thalia and leaving in the flyer in a couple of matches last night versus Delver decks or versus rogue decks with big ground-pounders. Am I cookoo???
Like I've posted before, if I were running mono-white I think my strategy would be to jam a bunch of fliers in the main and have 1-2 cards with the word "Moat" in the title in the side, so my post-board deck might very well resemble what you describe. I'm a little surprised that you wouldn't mind giving Delver decks another turn to play their cheap spells unimpeded though. In that matchup, are you looking to Wingmare to block Delver, or are you using it on offense to swing over Pyromancers etc. on the ground?
Re: Swift Reckoning, are you just resigned to always casting it as a Sorcery? I'm wondering if you have other non-permanent spells that make it flash-able.
Are there any cards (other than wilt leaf liege) that would help mitigate the anti DNT creature/deck hate my meta is going through right now? I played against Grixis Control yesterday and saw toxic deluge, izzet staticaster and multiple sulfur elementals! along with numerous kolaghan's commands, null rod and tsabo's web. Just chalk it up to a loss to a well prepared opponent?
You could try honor the pure or spear of heliod. I ran angel of jubilation for a while. Not only does it pump our team out of Staticaster and dread range but it shuts off natural order, fetchlands and toxic deluge.
Are there any cards (other than wilt leaf liege) that would help mitigate the anti DNT creature/deck hate my meta is going through right now? I played against Grixis Control yesterday and saw toxic deluge, izzet staticaster and multiple sulfur elementals! along with numerous kolaghan's commands, null rod and tsabo's web. Just chalk it up to a loss to a well prepared opponent?
You could try not running as many X/1s. Not too much you can do about Toxic Deluge other than not overextend, but stuff like Dread of Night and Sulfur Elemental are easy to dodge if you pay attention when building your deck.
I was okay until he hit his second sulfur elemental. I think that's good game?
Thanks for the advice guys. Going to a tournament tomorrow and wanted advice on my SB. I expect to see lots of Miracles, Omnishow and Grixis.
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Mangara of Corondor
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Wilt Leaf Liege
Oddly enough, no. I played against two Sneak/Show decks, however. One was in the semifinals, believe it or not. Wasn't a whole lotta Miracles, either. I only saw one confirmed build. Joe Lossett, who made Final 4, wasn't even playing it!
Haaa yes. He was a cool guy, though. Funny thing is, we were both 3-1 heading into that round, ranked 7th and 8th, but we weren't sure that we would get in if we drew, so we decided to play it out, ended up going to time, making everyone in the store wait, and got the actual 1-1-1 draw, and then both made it to top 8 at 7th and 8th anyway. So really, just a big waste of everyone's time.
Mirror matches are just a crap shot. There's only "draw better than your opponent".
So with the advice from this forum, this is what my deck looks like going into Week 1 of our local legacy league. I'll probably do a post each week with how I went/what I believe I'm up against for the next week. Let it be known I'm still in the early stages of learning DnT, my last legacy league was bad. But I think I've done a lot more playing of the deck, so I'm understanding different interactions a lot better.
I know that one of my opponents is most likely playing ANT variation of Storm. I play tested a bunch against a friend who's playing TES, and I managed to beat him 4-0 the other night. Turns out Ratchet Bomb is effective against 20 Goblins. If anyone has any advice as to what ANT looks like these days, as I haven't played against it before.
I assume game two would be bringing in Pithing Needle (for LED), Enlightened Tutor to get that Needle or a Canonist(which is better?), and Rest in Peace.
I know that one of my opponents is most likely playing ANT variation of Storm. I play tested a bunch against a friend who's playing TES, and I managed to beat him 4-0 the other night. Turns out Ratchet Bomb is effective against 20 Goblins. If anyone has any advice as to what ANT looks like these days, as I haven't played against it before.
I assume game two would be bringing in Pithing Needle (for LED), Enlightened Tutor to get that Needle or a Canonist(which is better?), and Rest in Peace.
You can't Pithing Needle an LED (Well technically you can name it, but it won't do anything) because it's a mana ability - different from Phyrexian Revoker. Needle does come in though for Polluted Delta. Cage might come in too because we have lots of dead cards anyway, stops Past In Flames. Canonist is definitely the go-to tutor target.
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Legacy:
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EDH: Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!
Urza, Lord High Artificer
Batterskull is your equipment of choice, side the other 2 out to make space. So, -2 equipment -4 StP +2 Canonist +1 Tutor +1 Cage +2 Bomb. Your maindeck already crushes ANT because of the 8 glowrider effects anf 4 Wasteland, everything else is added value.
You can't Pithing Needle an LED (Well technically you can name it, but it won't do anything) because it's a mana ability - different from Phyrexian Revoker. Needle does come in though for Polluted Delta. Cage might come in too because we have lots of dead cards anyway, stops Past In Flames. Canonist is definitely the go-to tutor target.
I totally knew that, but I think my brain just decided to ignore that for some reason? Probably the excitement of shutting down LED. At least I still have Revoker. Cheers for the tutor tip too.
This is the list that I went with for today's Worcester SCG Legacy 5k. Ended up 4-4
Round 1 vs Infect 1-2
Game 1 - I had it from the start. Getting a timely swords on a glistener elf and a wasteland on a tropical island kept him pretty well locked out while I pounded him in a mono white DnT style. Not revealing the splash.
Game 2 - He started out with a turn 1 hierarch into an inkmoth and 2 more hierarchs. I couldn't find a wasteland or a swords to plowshares and died after 2 swings, the second swing including invigorate.
Game 3 - It went back and forth for a bit. Him with a jitte turn 2 and me fighting through that getting counters. Came pretty close for a bit, but he was able to slowly beat in drawing a second inkmoth after wasting his 1st one. True name was pretty sweet here, just a few turns too late from him going off glistener elf and onto inkmoth.
Round 2 vs RuG Delver 2-0
Game 1 - Traded off resources for a bit early game. Eventually with a vial I got a geist, clique w/karakas fun going and I was able to stabilize at 1 life with a geist to kill him on the swing back.
Game 2 - Very lop sided. I kept him off everything while I curved out into true name holding a sword of war and peace and easily raced his goyf to 0 life.
Round 3 vs Miracles 2-0
Game 1 - I had a meddling mage on terminus, active mom, and cavern on human and wizard plus a clique and karakas to lock him off miracles after he had swords, snap, swords to answer my meddling mage. I was able to quickly race him to 0 before he got anything going.
Game 2 - Another game very 1 sided. I was able to drop a TNN with sword of war and peace, and then I vialed in a revoker naming top and he couldn't recover. Got him to 10, then swung in with 5 cards in his hand. He couldn't cast anything to reduce the damage and took his last 10 life.
Round 4 vs Junk Deathblade 2-1
Game 1 - We traded a lot of resources between sfm, removal spells, and I eventually got a TNN but he was able to slowly tear apart my board before dropping a liliana and killing my TNN while SoFi tore into my life total. I recall drawing 3 swords to plow late game and they just weren't what I needed.
Game 2 - On curve I played 2 SFM which both got answered. Dropped a clique and equipped a manriki to finish him off when I vialed in a flickerwisp to get the extra 3 damage in for exactly 9 damage.
Game 3 - We traded resources early in the game, finally with him at 11 life I was able to end the game by getting a thalia to stick equipped a sword of fire and ice and a sword of war and peace on it.
Round 5 vs FML (what I wrote when he went forest nettle sentinal)
Game 1 - He turn 3 kills me. I couldn't find the right hate. Drew 3 lands and had a thalia.
Game 2 - I attempted the turn 2 SFM into jitte, but he killed me turn 3 before I could do anything to stop him.
Round 6 - vs RuG Delver 2-0 (Great Pilot, we played a 15 minute match with no mistakes made either side)
Game 1 - He drew poorly, I drew great. I was at 18, him at 20. He scooped with 3 nimble mongoose and me with geist, mom, SFM ready to cheat in Bskull and TNN.
Game 2 - This game was literally 7 minutes. My keep was probably incorrect, but I luck-sacked out of it. (Cavern, mom, StP, RiP, 2 thalia, TNN) We played at a very high pace, no misplays just great draws on both sides flying through the match and drawing well. He had daze for the vial I drew, wasteland for my cavern and I drew running lands and swords his aberration into a thalia which he bolted and then unfortunately for him I resolved a RiP. From there I was able to resolve a vial and attempted 2 moms thinking that he could only answer one. I jokingly announced "forked bolt" Off the top he windmill slams forked bolt that he had no information was there. We traded resources very quickly, I cast a geist-he had the rough/tumble, I dropped in sfm-he had the bolt, I was able to eventually keep a sfm, drop in a TNN and then another geist and killed him swiftly.
Round 7 vs Elves 1-2
Game 1 - he had a really explosive start into basically a few guys and a few spells that did nothing for him. I was able to get thalia on board with a jitte and used the first strike and counters to trade very favorable.
Game 2 - He got me turn 4 after I dropped vial into grafdiggers cage, into revoker, into sfm.
Game 3 - I got stuck on 2 land and just couldn't drop things fast enough before he was able to glimpse out into natural order.
Round 8 vs Omnitell 1-2
Game 1 - I went on complete aggro with a vial and cavern into thalia, geist, clique in response to show and tell hitting his omniscience, then sfm for SoFi to close him out quickly.
Game 2 - He was able to cast show and tell and I put in flickerwisp to exile Omniscience to buy a turn. A Geist I had resolved previously with wisp got him to 7. I tried getting him to fetch with a delta with a wasteland to get him to 6 so I could kill him on the swing back with geist after sacrificing my 6 permanents. He didn't fall for it, so I scooped.
Game 3 - I hit him with a clique once early before he went show and tell into omniscience then emrakul. He swung removing most of my permanents and then finished me off for the last 5 life with release the ants.
I didn't see a single meddling mage for this match up in any of the 3 games. Otherwise this match up is usually extremely favorable.
Was very happy with the mainboard as is. Elves still sucks so the sideboard I changed based off good spells to have for that match up.
I didn't care much for the flusterstorms. The only time that I thought they were relevant was against omnitell and even then if I base my hate off bears, it won't really matter.
I brought in divert for a couple of matches and unfortunately never got to cast them as they were drawn late. Each time I could have used them they would have been good. I don't think it is really necessary overall in testing.
I really liked the mana base and barely had any issues at all with it. I am very happy that I went with 23 lands though. 22 Made me very nervous as much as the idea of an extra creature sounded nice. The island was awesome to have as well. Thank you for the suggestions Frenadol.
TNN was great most every time that I saw it. Barely ever had issues casting it, even then vial was awesome for that.
Believe it or not, I kind of like Vryn Wingmare better than Thalia??? Am I crazy??? I was siding out some numbers of Thalia and leaving in the flyer in a couple of matches last night versus Delver decks or versus rogue decks with big ground-pounders. Am I cookoo???
Like I've posted before, if I were running mono-white I think my strategy would be to jam a bunch of fliers in the main and have 1-2 cards with the word "Moat" in the title in the side, so my post-board deck might very well resemble what you describe. I'm a little surprised that you wouldn't mind giving Delver decks another turn to play their cheap spells unimpeded though. In that matchup, are you looking to Wingmare to block Delver, or are you using it on offense to swing over Pyromancers etc. on the ground?
Re: Swift Reckoning, are you just resigned to always casting it as a Sorcery? I'm wondering if you have other non-permanent spells that make it flash-able.
The thing is I usually have a lot of cards to bring in, and SOMETHING has to go. Thalia is good but she can't skirmish with a Delver, which is a bigger problem than Black or Green groundpounders since I run 3x Mirran Crusader (big fan). The evasion is good on offense of course too.
As for Swift Reckoning: all the 1-costing spells have a drawback that makes them conditional (except Swords oc). SR is the first 2-costing removal that I can get behind, and the condition is fairly negligible. Celestial Flare doesn't necessarily hit Deathrite Shaman, but with a little luck, SR does. SR gets rid of everything right up to Tarmogoyf and beyond. Now, Reciprocate, which I've toyed with, also gets those monsters with about the same conditionality and same penalty, and maybe is just as "good" (bad) but I will keep experimenting with SR. But Reciprocate doesn't hit DS. That is a critical test for removal, imo. If DS taps to play a third mana on Turn 2, you got 'im. Often, if you throw out no blocker, he'll swing in on Turn 2, and then you'd have him with either of these spells, but you can't count on DS attacking.
One must resign oneself to playing SR as a Sorcery, but that may be ok.
I was okay until he hit his second sulfur elemental. I think that's good game?
Thanks for the advice guys. Going to a tournament tomorrow and wanted advice on my SB. I expect to see lots of Miracles, Omnishow and Grixis.
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Mangara of Corondor
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Wilt Leaf Liege
How did it go, Wynk? Had I looked earlier, here is what I would have said:
- 2 Chalice seems excessive (Are you bringing them in for the newer Delver builds? They run a ton of 1cmc spells, so I could see that.)
- I am with the "Mangara is main deck or not at all" crowd
- Need 1-2 Pithing Needle
- Would have made 3rd RiP a Relic of Progenitus
- a 5th removal spell would be good
- What is Wilt-Leaf Liege in for as a 2-of? Just to deal with x/-1 effects? If that is the problem, I would think just make sure some of your creatures are meatier, unless you are also getting slammed with discard effects.
@amoebasinger
Maybe that is getting too cute, and 2cmc sorcery is bad. If you don't want Path to Exile or Sunlance, Harm's Way was a great card for me. Sure, they have to try and do damage to you, but anything swinging for >=2 kills their DRS, including their own Lightning Bolt and the DRS B,tap.
@Everyone
So clearly I am an idiot. Relic can target myself and allow me to choose what I am removing, including whatever my DRS opponent wants to target, right?
That is correctly. Relic can do that for you. It is also interesting to note that you can target yourself to remove an artifact in your yard since you are more likely to have them than an opponent in order to shrink an opposing goyf, possibly in a way that will allow you to blow them out during combat.
I would like to note that I hate Relic in the main. I feel like I am down too many creatures, and of course I played the mirror and BUG Delver last night, where what I really, really wanted Game 1 was Phyrexian Revoker for opposing Vials\equipment, and DRS and Liliana.
Nevermind that against the BUG player he hit 3 DRS, 3 Abrupt Decay, and 2 Tarmogoyf in his top 15 cards, the rest being lands, a Liliana, and a couple other spot removal, both games. Turn 1 relic blown up turn 2; turn 3 Pithing Needle blown up turn 3 (solely thanks to DRS mana, which was just adding salt to the wound); Turn 4, blow up Vial to keep me down to one creature on the board; Liliana turn 5, while I never drew enough creatures to get around the combo of sac/discard. Hard to do much about that.
Reporting in, did horribly at the tournament, going 3-3. The beginning of the end was playing against Belcher and then drawing only lands for 4 straight turns vs. Omnishow (no clock, who digged into dig into dig into an answer to a leonin-relic warder). Lost fair and square to a Death Shadow deck (???) It was a weird tournament with MUD and lands everywhere and no miracles in sight. Better luck next time I guess!
I'm also finding that Relic is only mediocre in the main. When it is good, it is insane. I played some matches against Maverick, and let me tell you, the game ones were significantly easier when I didn't have to deal with 10/10 knights. I had multiple games against Grixis Delver or Miracles where I just shut off their relevant spells in hand and it singlehandedly won me the game. It even was able to deny my Elves opponents some mana in the Open Trial I played in last weekend (not report worthy, just 8 players). It is relevant in some way in most matchups.
The issue is that it sometimes results in you having too few bodies in the early game. When you aren't applying pressure and you just are tapping Relic and Porting, you aren't really getting anywhere. Additionally, even when your opponent starts with a Deathrite, it's possible that he'll get a mana or two out of it before your Relic completely locks out his graveyard.
At the very least, Relic and Resto shouldn't be in the same maindeck. Both cards are sort of late game payoff cards and having both is harsh on your tempo.
The deck really needs one more "real" two drop, but I'm not hot on Revoker right now, SotL is lukewarm at best in the main, and I don't love maindeck Canonist. This version of the deck doesn't roll to Dread of Night and friends though, which is what I'm aiming for.
I don't know about siding out Thalia against Delver..a turn 2 Thalia is so backbreaking to them and with wasteland and ports they are usually locked out of mana.
I'll be going to a few events in October, but I really don't have that much time to play. Thus the armchair general nature of my posts.
I'd also test 2 Savannah if you aren't running Yisan. Something I brought up before when we were taking the scary step (heh) of removing the basic Forest was how likely it would be for an opponent to hit our Savannahs with Wastelands if given the choice. Karakas seems to be getting increasingly less relevant (and thus less scary), but I think most opponents would be at least as afraid of our Ports as our Savannahs, given that any green splash will be pretty light.
My point is, it's highly unlikely that we'll naturally draw both of our two Savannahs, be forced to play them early to make W, then get them both Wasted, then draw a green non-creature spell but be out of green sources to cast it with. At the same time, limiting exposure to other nonbasic hate can be useful, especially in a less developed metagame or in early rounds of a larger event where Burn tends to run rampant. So unless you have existing evidence that says 3 Plains 2 Savannah doesn't work, I'd try it (as well) if you want another fetch.
Like I've posted before, if I were running mono-white I think my strategy would be to jam a bunch of fliers in the main and have 1-2 cards with the word "Moat" in the title in the side, so my post-board deck might very well resemble what you describe. I'm a little surprised that you wouldn't mind giving Delver decks another turn to play their cheap spells unimpeded though. In that matchup, are you looking to Wingmare to block Delver, or are you using it on offense to swing over Pyromancers etc. on the ground?
Re: Swift Reckoning, are you just resigned to always casting it as a Sorcery? I'm wondering if you have other non-permanent spells that make it flash-able.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I run 4 fetch 1 Forest 3 Savannah 3 Plains 1 Canopy.
Without Yisan I'd run 5 fetches and no Forest, otherwise the same.
You could try not running as many X/1s. Not too much you can do about Toxic Deluge other than not overextend, but stuff like Dread of Night and Sulfur Elemental are easy to dodge if you pay attention when building your deck.
Also, what is the general SB plan vs Omnitell? The first page seems a little dated as it's more of the sneak and show matchup.
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
Thanks for the advice guys. Going to a tournament tomorrow and wanted advice on my SB. I expect to see lots of Miracles, Omnishow and Grixis.
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Mangara of Corondor
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Wilt Leaf Liege
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flickerwisp
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Flooded Strand
3 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Savannah
3 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
2 Rest in Peace
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Runed Halo
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Containment Priest
1 Pithing Needle
1 Armageddon
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Enlightened Tutor
Bring a Needle!
Edit: Was there alot of OmniShow?
I played against:
R1 Sneak Show: 2-0
R2 BUG Cascade: 0-2
R3 UR Burn: 2-0
R4 Junk: 2-0
R5 DnT: 1-1-1
QF ANT: 2-0
SF Sneak/Show: 2-0
Finals Goblins[!]: 2-1
Play a wide net. Meta is all over the place.
Mirror matches are just a crap shot. There's only "draw better than your opponent".
4 Flickerwisp
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Vryn Wingmare
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Serra Avenger
Non-Creature
4 Æther Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Mishra's Factory
9 Plains
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Rest in Peace
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Pithing Needle
1 Cataclysm
1 Containment Priest
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Path to Exile
I know that one of my opponents is most likely playing ANT variation of Storm. I play tested a bunch against a friend who's playing TES, and I managed to beat him 4-0 the other night. Turns out Ratchet Bomb is effective against 20 Goblins. If anyone has any advice as to what ANT looks like these days, as I haven't played against it before.
I assume game two would be bringing in Pithing Needle (for LED), Enlightened Tutor to get that Needle or a Canonist(which is better?), and Rest in Peace.
WDeath and TaxesW
You can't Pithing Needle an LED (Well technically you can name it, but it won't do anything) because it's a mana ability - different from Phyrexian Revoker. Needle does come in though for Polluted Delta. Cage might come in too because we have lots of dead cards anyway, stops Past In Flames. Canonist is definitely the go-to tutor target.
WorkshopsLegacy:
Death and Taxes
EDH:
Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!Urza, Lord High Artificer
Batterskull is your equipment of choice, side the other 2 out to make space. So, -2 equipment -4 StP +2 Canonist +1 Tutor +1 Cage +2 Bomb. Your maindeck already crushes ANT because of the 8 glowrider effects anf 4 Wasteland, everything else is added value.
I totally knew that, but I think my brain just decided to ignore that for some reason? Probably the excitement of shutting down LED. At least I still have Revoker. Cheers for the tutor tip too.
WDeath and TaxesW
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
3 Karakas
2 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
2 Tundra
4 Wasteland
Creatures 26
4 Flickerwisp
2 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Meddling Mage
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 True-Name Nemesis
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Æther Vial
2 Divert
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Rest in Peace
1 Sword of War and Peace
This is the list that I went with for today's Worcester SCG Legacy 5k. Ended up 4-4
Round 1 vs Infect 1-2
Game 1 - I had it from the start. Getting a timely swords on a glistener elf and a wasteland on a tropical island kept him pretty well locked out while I pounded him in a mono white DnT style. Not revealing the splash.
Game 2 - He started out with a turn 1 hierarch into an inkmoth and 2 more hierarchs. I couldn't find a wasteland or a swords to plowshares and died after 2 swings, the second swing including invigorate.
Game 3 - It went back and forth for a bit. Him with a jitte turn 2 and me fighting through that getting counters. Came pretty close for a bit, but he was able to slowly beat in drawing a second inkmoth after wasting his 1st one. True name was pretty sweet here, just a few turns too late from him going off glistener elf and onto inkmoth.
Round 2 vs RuG Delver 2-0
Game 1 - Traded off resources for a bit early game. Eventually with a vial I got a geist, clique w/karakas fun going and I was able to stabilize at 1 life with a geist to kill him on the swing back.
Game 2 - Very lop sided. I kept him off everything while I curved out into true name holding a sword of war and peace and easily raced his goyf to 0 life.
Round 3 vs Miracles 2-0
Game 1 - I had a meddling mage on terminus, active mom, and cavern on human and wizard plus a clique and karakas to lock him off miracles after he had swords, snap, swords to answer my meddling mage. I was able to quickly race him to 0 before he got anything going.
Game 2 - Another game very 1 sided. I was able to drop a TNN with sword of war and peace, and then I vialed in a revoker naming top and he couldn't recover. Got him to 10, then swung in with 5 cards in his hand. He couldn't cast anything to reduce the damage and took his last 10 life.
Round 4 vs Junk Deathblade 2-1
Game 1 - We traded a lot of resources between sfm, removal spells, and I eventually got a TNN but he was able to slowly tear apart my board before dropping a liliana and killing my TNN while SoFi tore into my life total. I recall drawing 3 swords to plow late game and they just weren't what I needed.
Game 2 - On curve I played 2 SFM which both got answered. Dropped a clique and equipped a manriki to finish him off when I vialed in a flickerwisp to get the extra 3 damage in for exactly 9 damage.
Game 3 - We traded resources early in the game, finally with him at 11 life I was able to end the game by getting a thalia to stick equipped a sword of fire and ice and a sword of war and peace on it.
Round 5 vs FML (what I wrote when he went forest nettle sentinal)
Game 1 - He turn 3 kills me. I couldn't find the right hate. Drew 3 lands and had a thalia.
Game 2 - I attempted the turn 2 SFM into jitte, but he killed me turn 3 before I could do anything to stop him.
Round 6 - vs RuG Delver 2-0 (Great Pilot, we played a 15 minute match with no mistakes made either side)
Game 1 - He drew poorly, I drew great. I was at 18, him at 20. He scooped with 3 nimble mongoose and me with geist, mom, SFM ready to cheat in Bskull and TNN.
Game 2 - This game was literally 7 minutes. My keep was probably incorrect, but I luck-sacked out of it. (Cavern, mom, StP, RiP, 2 thalia, TNN) We played at a very high pace, no misplays just great draws on both sides flying through the match and drawing well. He had daze for the vial I drew, wasteland for my cavern and I drew running lands and swords his aberration into a thalia which he bolted and then unfortunately for him I resolved a RiP. From there I was able to resolve a vial and attempted 2 moms thinking that he could only answer one. I jokingly announced "forked bolt" Off the top he windmill slams forked bolt that he had no information was there. We traded resources very quickly, I cast a geist-he had the rough/tumble, I dropped in sfm-he had the bolt, I was able to eventually keep a sfm, drop in a TNN and then another geist and killed him swiftly.
Round 7 vs Elves 1-2
Game 1 - he had a really explosive start into basically a few guys and a few spells that did nothing for him. I was able to get thalia on board with a jitte and used the first strike and counters to trade very favorable.
Game 2 - He got me turn 4 after I dropped vial into grafdiggers cage, into revoker, into sfm.
Game 3 - I got stuck on 2 land and just couldn't drop things fast enough before he was able to glimpse out into natural order.
Round 8 vs Omnitell 1-2
Game 1 - I went on complete aggro with a vial and cavern into thalia, geist, clique in response to show and tell hitting his omniscience, then sfm for SoFi to close him out quickly.
Game 2 - He was able to cast show and tell and I put in flickerwisp to exile Omniscience to buy a turn. A Geist I had resolved previously with wisp got him to 7. I tried getting him to fetch with a delta with a wasteland to get him to 6 so I could kill him on the swing back with geist after sacrificing my 6 permanents. He didn't fall for it, so I scooped.
Game 3 - I hit him with a clique once early before he went show and tell into omniscience then emrakul. He swung removing most of my permanents and then finished me off for the last 5 life with release the ants.
I didn't see a single meddling mage for this match up in any of the 3 games. Otherwise this match up is usually extremely favorable.
Was very happy with the mainboard as is. Elves still sucks so the sideboard I changed based off good spells to have for that match up.
I didn't care much for the flusterstorms. The only time that I thought they were relevant was against omnitell and even then if I base my hate off bears, it won't really matter.
I brought in divert for a couple of matches and unfortunately never got to cast them as they were drawn late. Each time I could have used them they would have been good. I don't think it is really necessary overall in testing.
I really liked the mana base and barely had any issues at all with it. I am very happy that I went with 23 lands though. 22 Made me very nervous as much as the idea of an extra creature sounded nice. The island was awesome to have as well. Thank you for the suggestions Frenadol.
TNN was great most every time that I saw it. Barely ever had issues casting it, even then vial was awesome for that.
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
3 Karakas
2 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
2 Tundra
4 Wasteland
Creatures 26
4 Flickerwisp
2 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Meddling Mage
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 True-Name Nemesis
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Æther Vial
1 Containment Priest
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Rest in Peace
1 Sunlance
1 Sword of War and Peace
The thing is I usually have a lot of cards to bring in, and SOMETHING has to go. Thalia is good but she can't skirmish with a Delver, which is a bigger problem than Black or Green groundpounders since I run 3x Mirran Crusader (big fan). The evasion is good on offense of course too.
As for Swift Reckoning: all the 1-costing spells have a drawback that makes them conditional (except Swords oc). SR is the first 2-costing removal that I can get behind, and the condition is fairly negligible. Celestial Flare doesn't necessarily hit Deathrite Shaman, but with a little luck, SR does. SR gets rid of everything right up to Tarmogoyf and beyond. Now, Reciprocate, which I've toyed with, also gets those monsters with about the same conditionality and same penalty, and maybe is just as "good" (bad) but I will keep experimenting with SR. But Reciprocate doesn't hit DS. That is a critical test for removal, imo. If DS taps to play a third mana on Turn 2, you got 'im. Often, if you throw out no blocker, he'll swing in on Turn 2, and then you'd have him with either of these spells, but you can't count on DS attacking.
One must resign oneself to playing SR as a Sorcery, but that may be ok.
J
How did it go, Wynk? Had I looked earlier, here is what I would have said:
- 2 Chalice seems excessive (Are you bringing them in for the newer Delver builds? They run a ton of 1cmc spells, so I could see that.)
- I am with the "Mangara is main deck or not at all" crowd
- Need 1-2 Pithing Needle
- Would have made 3rd RiP a Relic of Progenitus
- a 5th removal spell would be good
- What is Wilt-Leaf Liege in for as a 2-of? Just to deal with x/-1 effects? If that is the problem, I would think just make sure some of your creatures are meatier, unless you are also getting slammed with discard effects.
@amoebasinger
Maybe that is getting too cute, and 2cmc sorcery is bad. If you don't want Path to Exile or Sunlance, Harm's Way was a great card for me. Sure, they have to try and do damage to you, but anything swinging for >=2 kills their DRS, including their own Lightning Bolt and the DRS B,tap.
@Everyone
So clearly I am an idiot. Relic can target myself and allow me to choose what I am removing, including whatever my DRS opponent wants to target, right?
Modern
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Nevermind that against the BUG player he hit 3 DRS, 3 Abrupt Decay, and 2 Tarmogoyf in his top 15 cards, the rest being lands, a Liliana, and a couple other spot removal, both games. Turn 1 relic blown up turn 2; turn 3 Pithing Needle blown up turn 3 (solely thanks to DRS mana, which was just adding salt to the wound); Turn 4, blow up Vial to keep me down to one creature on the board; Liliana turn 5, while I never drew enough creatures to get around the combo of sac/discard. Hard to do much about that.
Modern
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
The issue is that it sometimes results in you having too few bodies in the early game. When you aren't applying pressure and you just are tapping Relic and Porting, you aren't really getting anywhere. Additionally, even when your opponent starts with a Deathrite, it's possible that he'll get a mana or two out of it before your Relic completely locks out his graveyard.
At the very least, Relic and Resto shouldn't be in the same maindeck. Both cards are sort of late game payoff cards and having both is harsh on your tempo.
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
10 Plains
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger
4 Vryn Wingmare
3 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
4 Æther Vial
1 Sword of Fire and ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of War and Peace
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Path to Exile
2 Pithing Needle
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Rest in Peace
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Baneslayer Angel
The deck really needs one more "real" two drop, but I'm not hot on Revoker right now, SotL is lukewarm at best in the main, and I don't love maindeck Canonist. This version of the deck doesn't roll to Dread of Night and friends though, which is what I'm aiming for.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.