That WotC trend of deprecating "leaves the battlefield" triggers certainly isn't good for our deck, as it removes some of the tricks the deck can pull off especially with Flickerwisp. As for this card, obviously O-Ring is still better.
I very briefly got excited for Tethmos High Priest before reminding myself Heroic doesn't trigger off abilities. These last two sets have been teasing this deck quite a bit.
Yeah, I wanted to freak out over some of these heroic cards, then I realize I almost never target my own creatures with abilities, except to equip/mom.
Hey, based off these forums I just completed this deck and used it as a jumping off point from Modern into Legacy. Played my first few games today to learn to pilot and this deck did not disappoint, absolutely loved it, thanks all for your contributions.
Things I noticed in those few games though with my very limited experience, when I got the Mangara combo on board I generally had better, more game winning plays to make than a soft lock against an opp. who already has a board presence by turn 3-4+, perhaps it was just the match ups but I'm thinking of going 3/3 crusader/avenger instead of the Mangara. Karakas earns its keep it seems with protecting Thalia alone. I played 12 post, goblins, elves and dredge, is it just that Mangara is poor in these match ups and earns a spot against others?
I played 12 post, goblins, elves and dredge, is it just that Mangara is poor in these match ups and earns a spot against others?
I haven't been running Mangara for a while, but would say it's especially bad against Elves, Dredge and Goblins.
Elves and Dredge are usually decided before his effect matters or as you mention there are better lines of play. The permanents of Goblins for the most part are pretty interchangeable, more of the value is established by the ETB triggers that Mangara has no effect against. The permanents of significance have their effect before Mangara can interact - Lackey, Vial and Warchief.
I heard this somewhere before not too long ago and it bears repeating. There is NO perfect build for Death and Taxes.
I think this deck really depends on how you like to play. Beat down mode or control. We have many interchangeable creatures now so it comes down to what you face in your meta and what you are comfortable piloting.
Thanks, as I said I'm a noob with little experience. It just worked out I got the combo often but was more worried with keeping jitte attached or bounce/playing Thalia, or the like. But as Bok Choy mentioned I'm probably a little more beat-down than a control player, that probably factors in a lot. Thanks for the MU advice Cairo.
Will continue to play and tweak, this deck is a blast.
Hi, I'm here to share my decklist that I'm currently using, it's winning rate against deathblade is +- 80%-20%. Played against a few matchups recently, Reanimator, Affinity, Lots of deathblade, Enchantress, Bant, etc. It's the most "perfect build" that I think of.
[23 Lands]
9x Plains
2x Horizon Canopy
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
1x Cavern of Souls
3x Karakas
[26 Creatures]
4x Mother of Runes
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Flickerwisp
3x Serra Avenger
1x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1x Mirran Crusader
2x Aven Mindcensor
[11 Others]
4x Aether Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
I tested Relic of Progenitus instead of the Cage in the SB, but we need more weapons against Elves, and that's in the same slot.
Tested Spirit of the Labyrinth in the MD, and he was useless. Don't use it, serious.
Tested 2 Brimaz instead of 1 and a Mirran, and the thing is simples: there's matchs that mirran is more powerfull, and matchs that Brimaz shines a lot more. So, I just use the 1-1 of each.
TNN is a thing, but with a lot of flyers MD it's not that much scaring. Plus, celestial flare + manriki-gusari makes it just a "3/1 umblockable/hexproof" creature. Against that match, the secret is to REMOVE 2~3 Swords to Plowshares from the MD and put Celestial Flare, Manriki and Oblivion Ring. But, if the TNN build has Dark Confidant, you just have to arrange some space to 4 Plowshares + a lot of hate for TNN. But actually, few TNN.decks runs Confidant, so that's ok.
Wilt-Leaf Liege is a must have. -1/-1 effects are still on the meta, and bug decks have that f**** Lilianas, plus Hymn to Tourach.
Given that 2 players in my locals play Lands and a lot of others play stuff with permanents worth locking, Mangara is getting the nod, though I really actually wish I had something other than either one of them in the form of another 2cmc.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
Ah my bad, I looked a few pages back and saw nothing on it, and thought no one brought it up. I really got to get up to date with using the search thing.
Seems like most people are unimpressed and would rather what we already got.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
I would highly doubt Miracles wants Dack.
The +1 being card disadvantage for the purest control deck in Legacy is just a no-no.
If Dack has a home in Legacy (he'll almost assuredly find a home in Vintage where his -2 is crazy) it's alongside something like Goblin Welder, or other graveyard synergy cards.
As for his impact against D&T, I really don't think D&T cares too much. He can't directly deal with D&T's threats, and can be shut off with Revoker. If he steals something it's not even the end of the world.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Fun fact: if he steals Batterskull we can still use the Germ with the equipment on it to beat face, it stays until the opponent has 5 mana and a creature to equip it to.
I'm not too worried about the new PW (TNN can be considered a much bigger threat and still hasn't done much to dethrone us), but he's certainly going to be a PITA in some matchups.
Dack is going to break Vintage in half, that I'm sure of.
Did you put Batterskull back maindeck? I've been using the deck without it and have been pretty happy.
I was actually rather happy with no batterskull. I did not miss it all that much. It is such a lousy card to have in your opening 7, and this deck really wants 27 creatures. I would still recommend going without, and I am about to change the OP back. I don't recall why I have it in there.
I'm afraid that my deck is currently disassembled, as I have the Commander bug, and I pilfered the deck.
This is the deck list in have put together. The deck seems fu. Haven't had the chance to play test yet. I coming from Patriot Delver which is fun, but I am looking for something a little more intricate. Sideboard needs some minor tweaking. Let me know what you guys think.
Sideboard:
I get the reason for Ratchet Bomb and Spirit of the Labyrinth, but given the popularity of Lands, and local meta issues with Elves, I am keeping 2 Cataclysm. I am torn between another ET and Batterskull in the sideboard. There are matches where I really like Batterskull.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Oppressive Rays has potential. This will likely replace PTE/Sunlance as my additional removal spell from the board during testing sessions.
IDK, Dark Confidant is one of the biggest reasons I run the 5th removal spell SB (in addition to Elves). Oppressive Rays doesn't help here. As gibbousm mentioned Painter's Servant is another noteworthy Sunlance target that doesn't get effected by Oppressive Rays.
Wait, do we side in Cataclysm vs Elves? They're kinda too fast for that, no? I'm pretty sure Envoldsen didn't used to, from the sideboarding list I saw.
Wait, do we side in Cataclysm vs Elves? They're kinda too fast for that, no? I'm pretty sure Envoldsen didn't used to, from the sideboarding list I saw.
In my experience, you have to get really, really lucky to pull off Cataclysm against Elves. And it's shocking how quickly they can rebuild compared to DnT. But if you've got it in your side, I'd prob. put it in because it might be better than some other random junk. I unfortunately never have much in the side for Elves, so maybe Cataclysm goes in by default for people like me.
I wouldn't bother with cataclysm vs eleves, I have written plenty on this MU and sideboarding choices, so if you are interested look back. Honestly, if you cataclysm they will quirion and wirewood everything back into their hand and, like a polymimetic alloy cockroach, reassemble next turn. I can't see any reason to cast it, if you can to some advantage then something has already gone terribly wrong with their plan and you would probably win anyway. It may be a coup de gras in some rare game state where they are at lethal but have blockers, that said, this is what fliers/mirran are for.
My advice, win the roll and be on the play game one, that's your best bet. Lose game two then be on the play with some nut draw game three. That's how you beat elves. If you are expecting Elves, go the aggro build. I hate elves!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy
Death and Taxes
UG Infect
Strawberry Shortcake Imperial Painter
That WotC trend of deprecating "leaves the battlefield" triggers certainly isn't good for our deck, as it removes some of the tricks the deck can pull off especially with Flickerwisp. As for this card, obviously O-Ring is still better.
Things I noticed in those few games though with my very limited experience, when I got the Mangara combo on board I generally had better, more game winning plays to make than a soft lock against an opp. who already has a board presence by turn 3-4+, perhaps it was just the match ups but I'm thinking of going 3/3 crusader/avenger instead of the Mangara. Karakas earns its keep it seems with protecting Thalia alone. I played 12 post, goblins, elves and dredge, is it just that Mangara is poor in these match ups and earns a spot against others?
I haven't been running Mangara for a while, but would say it's especially bad against Elves, Dredge and Goblins.
Elves and Dredge are usually decided before his effect matters or as you mention there are better lines of play. The permanents of Goblins for the most part are pretty interchangeable, more of the value is established by the ETB triggers that Mangara has no effect against. The permanents of significance have their effect before Mangara can interact - Lackey, Vial and Warchief.
I think this deck really depends on how you like to play. Beat down mode or control. We have many interchangeable creatures now so it comes down to what you face in your meta and what you are comfortable piloting.
Will continue to play and tweak, this deck is a blast.
[23 Lands]
9x Plains
2x Horizon Canopy
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
1x Cavern of Souls
3x Karakas
[26 Creatures]
4x Mother of Runes
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Flickerwisp
3x Serra Avenger
1x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1x Mirran Crusader
2x Aven Mindcensor
[11 Others]
4x Aether Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
[Sideboard]
2x Cataclysm
2x Rest in Peace
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Wilt-Leaf Liege
2x Celestial Flare
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Manriki-Gusari
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Pithing Needle
I tested Relic of Progenitus instead of the Cage in the SB, but we need more weapons against Elves, and that's in the same slot.
Tested Spirit of the Labyrinth in the MD, and he was useless. Don't use it, serious.
Tested 2 Brimaz instead of 1 and a Mirran, and the thing is simples: there's matchs that mirran is more powerfull, and matchs that Brimaz shines a lot more. So, I just use the 1-1 of each.
TNN is a thing, but with a lot of flyers MD it's not that much scaring. Plus, celestial flare + manriki-gusari makes it just a "3/1 umblockable/hexproof" creature. Against that match, the secret is to REMOVE 2~3 Swords to Plowshares from the MD and put Celestial Flare, Manriki and Oblivion Ring. But, if the TNN build has Dark Confidant, you just have to arrange some space to 4 Plowshares + a lot of hate for TNN. But actually, few TNN.decks runs Confidant, so that's ok.
Wilt-Leaf Liege is a must have. -1/-1 effects are still on the meta, and bug decks have that f**** Lilianas, plus Hymn to Tourach.
Did you put Batterskull back maindeck? I've been using the deck without it and have been pretty happy.
-1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos, +1 Mirran Crusader
-2 Aven Mindcensor, +2 Mangara of Corandor
Given that 2 players in my locals play Lands and a lot of others play stuff with permanents worth locking, Mangara is getting the nod, though I really actually wish I had something other than either one of them in the form of another 2cmc.
Cards that come to mind:
Grand Abolisher
True Believer
Samurai of the Pale Curtain
Nothing really impresses me though more than Mangara and Aven.
Brimaz is not impressing me overall in any format. Mirran just feels better, especially with the amount of BUG I end up playing atm.
Sideboard is also 2 cards off:
-1 O-Ring, +1 Enlightened Tutor
-1 Manriki-Gusari, +1 Seal of Cleansing
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Legendary Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+3.
Whenever equipped creature blocks or becomes blocked by one or more creatures, you may exile one of those creatures.
Opponents can't cast cards with the same name as cards exiled with Godsend.
Equip 3
cost- 1 W W
looks like it could definitely be interesting
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/search?search-thread-id=179856&search-forum-id=&forum-scope=f&prefix=&display-type=0&search=Godsend&search-type=2&by-author=&begin-date=&begin-time=&end-date=&end-time=&min-posts=&min-views=&prefix=&display-type=0&submit=y
Ah my bad, I looked a few pages back and saw nothing on it, and thought no one brought it up. I really got to get up to date with using the search thing.
Seems like most people are unimpressed and would rather what we already got.
The +1 being card disadvantage for the purest control deck in Legacy is just a no-no.
If Dack has a home in Legacy (he'll almost assuredly find a home in Vintage where his -2 is crazy) it's alongside something like Goblin Welder, or other graveyard synergy cards.
As for his impact against D&T, I really don't think D&T cares too much. He can't directly deal with D&T's threats, and can be shut off with Revoker. If he steals something it's not even the end of the world.
I'm not too worried about the new PW (TNN can be considered a much bigger threat and still hasn't done much to dethrone us), but he's certainly going to be a PITA in some matchups.
Dack is going to break Vintage in half, that I'm sure of.
I'm afraid that my deck is currently disassembled, as I have the Commander bug, and I pilfered the deck.
I like it a lot too. Surprised there was no discussion on this board about it, but I think modern will be where it shines the most.
Top 64 Legacy Open SCG: Dallas/FortWorth 2013
SCG Open Trial (2013): 1st
-Anonymous
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Karakas
9 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
1 Tower of the Magistrate
4 Wasteland
// Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Flickerwisp
3 Mangara of Corondor
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Swords to Plowshares
// Artifacts
4 Æther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
This is the deck list in have put together. The deck seems fu. Haven't had the chance to play test yet. I coming from Patriot Delver which is fun, but I am looking for something a little more intricate. Sideboard needs some minor tweaking. Let me know what you guys think.
EDH Decks
Thanks To DarkNightCavalier For the Sig!!!
Like the build sans Batterskull, but do you really think that Brimaz, King of Oreskos > Serra Avenger? Or are you just going to a larger 3-drop commitment for Vial value?
Sideboard:
I get the reason for Ratchet Bomb and Spirit of the Labyrinth, but given the popularity of Lands, and local meta issues with Elves, I am keeping 2 Cataclysm. I am torn between another ET and Batterskull in the sideboard. There are matches where I really like Batterskull.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
IDK, Dark Confidant is one of the biggest reasons I run the 5th removal spell SB (in addition to Elves). Oppressive Rays doesn't help here. As gibbousm mentioned Painter's Servant is another noteworthy Sunlance target that doesn't get effected by Oppressive Rays.
J
My advice, win the roll and be on the play game one, that's your best bet. Lose game two then be on the play with some nut draw game three. That's how you beat elves. If you are expecting Elves, go the aggro build. I hate elves!
Death and Taxes
UG Infect
Strawberry Shortcake Imperial Painter
EDH
Angus Mackenzie - Enduring Enchantments
Adun Oakenshield - Jund F'ing Good Stuff, "Money Vault"
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails - Captain Crunch